USC #1 & #2 | Page 3 | The Boneyard

USC #1 & #2

Bone Dog said:
In my view, SC is the presumptive preseason #1, and not because of anything owed to the reigning champs. It's only because they look to be the best team for next year. Yes, they lost Kamila, but they have a deep roster and discovered some great talents among the freshmen toward the end of the season: i.e. Tessa Johnson.

USCw might turn out to be among the best, but they have proven nothing yet, and coach Gottlieb has yet to show that she can build a great program. But she has seemed to turn a corner when it comes to recruiting. They deserve watching to see what Gottlieb can accomplish. The year is young.

But this means that UConn and Texas ought to be placed above USCw as preseason picks. I'm not sure where to place ND, who have the core of an awesome team in Olivia Hannah Soni Anna and Maddie. What they lack is a healthy big, but we'll see what the portal may provide. If they find one, they may merit placing above USCw as well.

With that said, here's my current preseason ranking:
  1. SC
  2. Texas
  3. UConn
  4. ND
  5. USCw
  6. UCLA
That's as far as my crystal ball can see.
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ND actually had the highest rated big in this years freshman class in Kate Koval. Yes they could use depth up front, but the guards are going to be must watch TV.
 
tower1 said:
Uconn did a nice job getting Strong to come. But we still haven't been able to recruit a center. We need a a center to backup Janna. She is coming back from major surgery. I can't believe that we haven't gotten a big in the last couple of years. Do we need another recruiter that can bring in Bigs ?
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Amari 6'5" (top 15) Ice 6'4" (top 5) Jana 6'5" plays on her country's national team. Next year 6'5". 6'3" Edwards (Canadian national team) Patterson (top 8), big and strong Sarah 6'2". We recruit size and some pan out others did not. If Jana and Patterson are healthy and Ice takes the next step then this conversation becomes irrelevant.
 
Really OSU is Ohio State only. I'll bet when people in Oregon and Oklahoma hear OSU they don't think Ohio State. In South Carolina USC means them. What's this traditionalist stuff. When someone says Huskies I think UConn, but nationally Washington has a way longer sports tradition than we do.
 
Cuango said:
Well, I’d say Paige and Sarah are a pretty goo duo.
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Sarah has played zero minutes of college ball. No one has any idea how good or not good she will be at the next level. I'm not expecting much from a freshman who generally don't get a lot of run in Geno's system (when he has a choice) and especially not one that's way out of shape (by her own admission).
 
I don't agree with any of these pre-season rankings. The UConn Huskies are so loaded next year...their performance will be off the charts better than it was last year. UConn's defense was pretty good last year...at times it was outright smothering. Next year their defense will be even better...teams are going to find it very difficult to score and do the things that they are used to doing.

We will have depth in the front court something we were missing this past season:

Jana El Alfy - 6'5;
Ice Brady - 6'3":
Sarah Strong - 6'2";
Ayanna Patterson - 6'2".

Our back-court guards will be crazy deep and off-the-charts talented.

KK Arnold - 5'9"
Kaitlyn Chen - 5'9"
Ashlynn Shade - 5'10"
Azzi Fudd - 5'11"
Allie Ziebell - 6'0"
Paige Bueckers - 6'0"

Then we will have a plethora of talented swing guards/forwards.

Qadence Samuels - 6'0"
Aubrey Griffin - 6'1"
Morgan Cheli - 6'2"
Caroline Ducharme - 6'2"

I hate to break the news to the sports pundits who think that USC West and USC East are going to be 1 and 2. The reality is it will be UConn and everyone else. UConn will be the best team in America next season. It will become more and more obvious as the season wears on. I don't see a team beating this team

There will be no drop-off when Geno goes to his bench. He will have defenders, shooters, and rebounders on the floor for 40 minutes per game. It will be almost comical when Geno tells the team to take their foot off the gas...it will be so obvious that the team will be holding back that it will be embarrassing for other teams. This will be an amazingly balanced team, they will be an offensive juggernaut and nobody is going to want to face the UConn defense. UConn will average in the 90s next year...teams will have to score 90 plus points to beat UConn. That is going to be a very difficult task.
 
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hoopsfan22 said:
Sarah has played zero minutes of college ball. No one has any idea how good or not good she will be at the next level. I'm not expecting much from a freshman who generally don't get a lot of run in Geno's system (when he has a choice) and especially not one that's way out of shape (by her own admission).
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Hoopfan22 the good news is since you lowered your expectations so much...that you will have plenty of room to be surprised next season. I remember Maya Moore coming to UConn and Geno for the first oh I don't know 6 games or so...had her coming off the bench...he realized by January that there was no keeping that kid off the floor. Sarah will be the same type of player...Geno will realize before too long that there is no way he can keep that kid off the floor. It will be raining threes from multiple players, the bigs will be able to carve our space, opposing teams will not be able to sag off the guards, and they will not be able to clog the middle. UConn's offense will spread out opposing teams' defense...slashers like KK, Caroline, and Aubrey will have a field day...if the weak side help comes...BANG! the ball will go to the perimeter and SPLASH!...three points.

If you can't tell...I think next year's squad is going to be crazy-good!
 
hoopsfan22 said:
Sarah has played zero minutes of college ball. No one has any idea how good or not good she will be at the next level. I'm not expecting much from a freshman who generally don't get a lot of run in Geno's system (when he has a choice) and especially not one that's way out of shape (by her own admission).
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We’ll see!
 
hoopsfan22 said:
Sarah has played zero minutes of college ball. No one has any idea how good or not good she will be at the next level. I'm not expecting much from a freshman who generally don't get a lot of run in Geno's system (when he has a choice) and especially not one that's way out of shape (by her own admission).
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This might be true if we are talking overall All-Americans. But it's not even close to true if we are talking #1 recruit All-Americans which Sarah is. Number #1 recruits at UCONN have always had a freshman impact other than Megan Walker (MW did wind up being an impact player). All of the other #1's from High School had good impacts and also played quite a bit their frosh year.

These are the other #1's I remember- Tamika Williams, Diana Taurasi, Ann Strother, Tina Charles, Maya Moore, Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Breanna Stewart, Katie Lou, Christyn Willliams, Paige, and Azzi. All these #1's averaged at least double figures in points and would have had also averaged over 20 minutes I believe.

So, looking back at history and applying it to now, then there is no reason to expect that Sarah won't have an impact and won't get minutes.

And the negativity of her being "out of shape" is an enormous exaggeration. Nearly all freshman that come to UCONN are not n shape by UCONN standards. Sarah was so much supposedly out of shape in High School that she was held to 31 points and 17 rebounds vs the number #2 High School recruit Joyce Edwards which is going to South Carolina. And Sarah was also held to 30 points and 20 rebounds by the 6'5 number 30 recruit Blanca Thomas going to North Carolina.
 
asuwish said:
ND actually had the highest rated big in this years freshman class in Kate Koval. Yes they could use depth up front, but the guards are going to be must watch TV.
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“big.” Aren’t Strong and z Edwards “bigs” that are higher rated?

Yes. Koval was the highest rated post or center . I’m
 
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hoopsfan22 said:
Sarah has played zero minutes of college ball. No one has any idea how good or not good she will be at the next level. I'm not expecting much from a freshman who generally don't get a lot of run in Geno's system (when he has a choice) and especially not one that's way out of shape (by her own admission).
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Amplifying Hophuskee’s point.

#1 Recruits that had immediate impact in their first year.
# National championship.
## Derailed national championship due to injuries.
### See contrast with Megan Walker ¥: 2017-18 UConn Huskies Women's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
@ Runner-up.
@@ KLS replaced graduated Kaleena in starting lineup. Napheesa didn’t have as much impact as classmate KLS.
¥ Derailed national championship due to being upset by Achilles heel teams or being beaten by Notre Dame or by Stanford.
 
WiseWillie said:
Want to get a heated discussion going? Start talking about ranking teams before anyone knows what they're talking about. Where's Carnac?

I'm staying out of the fray because first IT'S MAY, folks, not November and it's way too early to start theorizing 4 to 6 months from now (and folks that's all it is, merely theory and opinion based on very little if anything factual), but I do have one request for all BY'ers: Please stop this "USCW" and "USCE". It looks dumb; it is dumb. Southern Cal for eons has gone by USC and South Carolina has always gone by just SC. That's it.

Now keep those theories and prognostications rolling based on mostly dated and/or invalid information to come up with what the author hopes to be a valid, extremely knowledgeable argument because that's what we do. Gotta love it.
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South Carolina has never gone by SC.
 
It is very hard for me to believe that if Azzi and Jana are healthy and with the addition of Strong and Chen along with Paige that any team is better then UConn. If Healthy. If Healthy is a question mark. This UConn team which was a FF team adding the number 1 player on Hoopgurlz along with Morgan and Allie and bringing back their injured and I understand that some of those coming back from injury may not be available right away how can they not be number 1? I believe its UConn SC and everybody else. Everybody else being Texas ND USC. I do realize that we dont know how good those coming back from injury will be and those freshman coming in may not be up to college level right away. I do know that without them we made the FF. Thats where I coming from. When you have scorers/shooters like Paige Azzi Sarah Kaitlyn and Jana its hard for me to think that any team can keep up with them. Add in our roster from the FF and we are really really good. Let me also mention our defense is even better now.

Our bench is full of shooter/scorers. Its all gonna come down to who's healthy. I guess the forecasters figure health is a question mark that needs to be answered first before making UConn number 1. I also think that some people in WCBB dont want to believe that UConn is back and in a big way. The future with Gandy and the BIG O should help make them believe even though they may not like it.
 
Tonyc said:
It is very hard for me to believe that if Azzi and Jana are healthy and with the addition of Strong and Chen along with Paige that any team is better then UConn. If Healthy. If Healthy is a question mark. This UConn team which was a FF team adding the number 1 player on Hoopgurlz along with Morgan and Allie and bringing back their injured and I understand that some of those coming back from injury may not be available right away how can they not be number 1? I believe its UConn SC and everybody else. Everybody else being Texas ND USC. I do realize that we dont know how good those coming back from injury will be and those freshman coming in may not be up to college level right away. I do know that without them we made the FF. Thats where I coming from. When you have scorers/shooters like Paige Azzi Sarah Kaitlyn and Jana its hard for me to think that any team can keep up with them. Add in our roster from the FF and we are really really good. Let me also mention our defense is even better now.

Our bench is full of shooter/scorers. Its all gonna come down to who's healthy. I guess the forecasters figure health is a question mark that needs to be answered first before making UConn number 1. I also think that some people in WCBB dont want to believe that UConn is back and in a big way. The future with Gandy and the BIG O should help make them believe even though they may not like it.
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How can you say the defense is better? Nika set the tone and controlled the defense,remember what happened when she fouled out against ND last year..on top of that AE did most of the talking from the back end..getting people in the right position ect..
With both of them gone it's going to take awhile if at all to become the unit Uconn was last year
 
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Tonyc said:
if Azzi and Jana are healthy... If Healthy. If Healthy is a question mark.
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I don't mean to disagree with you, since I share pretty much all of your optimism. The thing is, I have very little patience for the "if healthy" caveat that has been repeated about 63,456 times in just this past week on the BY.

This is an opinion I suspect you share with me, and united perhaps we can get others to see the truth of it too:

The off-season shouldn't be wasted with anxieties about possible things that could go wrong. We get no extra points for starting early with the worries. There will be plenty of time for that later. This is the moment for unbridled optimism. This is why I will always assume that the huskies will return in due time, recover game shape quickly, and play healthy for the entire season. That's the only scenario I'm interested in speculating on at this point.
 
JuJu is a very good player bit not great, yet. She shoots a pretty poor percentage, she is an average passer and she will still need to carry her team. At 6'2 there will be many players who can defend her and at least make her take tough shots which she really doesn't mind doing. Now if she decides to just take her girl to the bucket every possession she is a whole different player and could be unstoppable. Kiki is average to above average but again not overly tall so she can be defended. I really don't see USC being a whole lot better than they were this year. In fact I think UCLA is the team to beat and that is because they will have a really long team that will be difficult to match up with.

South Carolina will be good but they will be very beatable too. Sure they only lost one player but that one player is the one no other team could really match up with. Every other player they have is solid but defendable which means they can and will be beat. I do think UConn and South Carolina do have an advantage over heavy portal teams in their team chemistry and that coupled with their talent give them the edge over both UCLA and USC. They will be 1-2 and should be.

All this is based on all the teams being healthy.
 
tower1 said:
Uconn did a nice job getting Strong to come. But we still haven't been able to recruit a center. We need a a center to backup Janna. She is coming back from major surgery. I can't believe that we haven't gotten a big in the last couple of years. Do we need another recruiter that can bring in Bigs ?
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UConn doesn't run an offense that needs a true post player. They only need a tall person to defend the other team's tall player. They have plenty of height to beat any other team out there. Only UCLA is going to have two players taller than 6'4 capable of starting and doubt they will.
 
RadfordRam said:
Top 5-6, not top 2 IMO.
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NO team in the country has better players than UConn top to bottom. Last year they were a top 4 team with at least 2 starters sitting on the bench for the whole season. Now in some cases they didn't have the right match ups but how would that have been different if Jana was playing along side AE? Fact is they may not be top 2 in the "official ranking" but once they play everyone they will be.

The big question with them is can they keep their players healthy? If they can they will handle their business and bring home #12
 
hoopsfan22 said:
South Carolina is easily #1. Best program in the country and has been for years. They are what UConn was a decade ago. For the upcoming season I'd put USC at #2. Is there a better duo in the country than JuJu+KiKi? After them there are a bunch of teams with key players making their way back from significant injury/surgery, and where they fall will be based on who is available when.
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They have had the best post player lately but their coach always provides you an opportunity to get a win if you can match up with them.
 
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Gamecockfan77 said:
"average to above average?"
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She's a superstar. Her level of play for a frosh was off-the-charts. And in her interview she said the exact thing she is hoping to improve which is efficiency. But her Efficicency for what she had to do was amazing.
 
Rowdy831 said:
JuJu is a very good player bit not great, yet. She shoots a pretty poor percentage, she is an average passer and she will still need to carry her team. At 6'2 there will be many players who can defend her and at least make her take tough shots which she really doesn't mind doing. Now if she decides to just take her girl to the bucket every possession she is a whole different player and could be unstoppable. Kiki is average to above average but again not overly tall so she can be defended. I really don't see USC being a whole lot better than they were this year. In fact I think UCLA is the team to beat and that is because they will have a really long team that will be difficult to match up with.

South Carolina will be good but they will be very beatable too. Sure they only lost one player but that one player is the one no other team could really match up with. Every other player they have is solid but defendable which means they can and will be beat. I do think UConn and South Carolina do have an advantage over heavy portal teams in their team chemistry and that coupled with their talent give them the edge over both UCLA and USC. They will be 1-2 and should be.

All this is based on all the teams being healthy.
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Time for another "SCar is beatable" thread. (no, I don't expect us to run the table again.
 
Watch out for UCLA. Quite the lineup with the addition of Ledger-Walker and Timea Gardiner.
 
NycUcWbbFan said:
USC should not be preseason #1. South Carolina should be preseason #1.

The thought experiment that goes into preseason rankings is not complicated, but is subjective. It starts with the final 2023 rankings, adjusted for (a) departures, (b) incoming recruits, (c) incoming transfers, (d) recovering players, and adjusted for the coaching staff’s history of making lineups work.

2023-24 Women's College Basketball Rankings - ESPN

Thought Experiment 1: South Carolina vs USC:
Thought Experiment 2: UConn vs ND vs Texas:
  • There seems to be disparate treatment of recovering stars by ESPN and others. ND with Miles goes from #11 to #3. TX with Harmon goes from #7 to #2.
  • UConn with Azzi and Jana, Kaitlyn replacing Nika, missing Aaliyah but adding heralded freshmen (#1 Sarah, #7 Allie and #11 Morgan), and going from 7 to 10 playable players to start the season and with Geno coming from one of his best coaching years, goes from #3 to #4. UConn has All-American and only returning former Player of the Year Paige.
  • Texas does add talented freshmen (guard ranked #9 and forward ranked #12). Notre Dame adds #5 freshman post.
My top 5 before any season play: 1 South Carolina, 2 UConn, 3 Texas, 4 USC, 5 Notre Dame.
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South Carolina has a better coach than U$C.
 
bballnut90 said:
South Carolina should be unanimous #1. They have everyone but Cardoso back and Watkins is perfect to fill her spot with no drop off defensively. When Cardoso was out, South Carolina was still incredibly dominant. They are deeper and more athletic in the post than any other team and bring in good HS talent to supplement both the backcourt and front court. They went undefeated last year and played elite level basketball on both ends of the court. Coaching wise, Dawn is on another level at the moment. She has won 4 of the last 5 COY awards and has had the best program in women’s basketball the last 5 years, going 167-9 over that time frame and 109-3 in the last 3 seasons. No question in my mind they’ll start out #1.

USC’s good on paper but is far from a sure thing, as it’ll be a brand new lineup aside from Juju Watkins and Rayah Marshall. There is a lot of talent and the pieces are there but it’ll require a better offensive system than they had this year, as well as incorporating players used to playing in very different offensive systems. I think both UCONN and Texas look like stronger teams to start the year, largely due to coaching and they both have standouts returning. UCONN’s main question mark is post play, as a lot of fans are putting their hopes on a freshman coming off an ACL, but they have Bueckers who will be an early favorite for POY and bring in the #1 recruit in Strong to help on the wing. Texas is looking rock solid on paper but Madison Booker will have to adjust to playing off ball after a brilliant year as a freshman point guard. Texas also will have to incorporate Phelia who will have a reduced role in Austin, so I expect them to have ups and downs as players figure out their positions. IMO, South Carolina is the only sure thing going into next year, but many teams have a lot of potential, including LSU who people are underestimating despite having one of the most athletic lineups in the country and an all time great coach.
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I'm not convinced that Watkins is the perfect defensive replacement for Cardoso. Good defender no doubt, but better off ball in the trenches as a help defender in my opinion. Athletic, but I can see her getting into foul trouble trying to defend a traditional 5 or big bodied post player without help. Seems a little light in the pants to be banging with bigs all game.
 
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