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USC #1 & #2

triaddukefan

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Has Close started referring to 50 point losses as "learning experiences?"

Also, how dare you use that avatar on a CT-based board.

Duke never got beat by 50 (i don't think). And lessons were learned. Learned not to schedule UConn. :oops:

Its the playoffs, and the Hornets aint around so the Canes it is. Also, its been 27 years. They should be ok by now. :confused:
 
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How tall is Crooks? Thought Triad was referring to posts who were in the 6'4"+ range when they asked the question.
She's 6-3 but BIG, Don'[t know her weight and probably shouldn't. She has the strength to push people around as she showed vs, Stanford's bigs.

Ashlyn Watkins doesn't have that bulk strength a low post (center) can use so effectively to control the paint. See Beers et al. Watkins can out jump them when the don't push her out of the paint. She can out-jump Cardosa too.
 
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She's 6-3 but BIG, Don'[t know her weight and probably shouldn't. She has the strength to push people around as she showed vs, Stanford's bigs.

Ashlyn Watkins doesn't have that bulk strength a low post (center) can use so effectively to control the paint. See Beers et al. Watkins can out jump them when the don't push her out of the paint. She can out-jump Cardosa too.
For some reason I thought she was 6'2". Thanks.
 
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the Canes it is. Also, it’s been 27 years. They should be ok by now..

1714689441365.gif
 
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They have had the best post player lately but their coach always provides you an opportunity to get a win if you can match up with them.
We've had the best team lately. And that sorry, no good coach was named by her peers the best in the sport for both in-game adjustments and defensive gameplan.
 
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I believe that the reason why some are giving it to USC (West) is because they have 6 of the Top 100 Freshman going to USC. Not that I agree with it, but some believe it.
Well these publications have their own motivations… with that being said, half of their six players will transfer out.
 

triaddukefan

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Not a “bust”. It’s unfair to call an njured player a bust. It will be interesting to see who ends up being considered the best of the 2021 class.

Is Fudd a senior this year?
 
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500 points heading into her senior year. Bust. Don't really care about the whys since I'm not related to her.
Azzi has played# in a total of 42 games in 3 seasons (25 out 36 in 1st year UConn, 15 out of 37 in 2nd year UConn, 2 out of 39 in 3rd year UConn).

In Azzi’s only postseason appearance, she suffered a stomach flu (?) in the finals game against South Carolina (Starters ) and played only 13 minutes. Dorka suffered a season-ending wrist injury in her third playing minute in the Sweet 16. Mon, Mar 28, 2022

So, next season is effectively Azzi’s sophomore season. Now, injuries are a part of the game, but calling Azzi a bust, when any other team would welcome Azzi and her 2 years of remaining eligibility, is rather trite.

Geno, Paige and Stephen Curry are better judges of talent than any keyboard warriors here.

Even Dawn, who called Geno’s teams machines, would admit that luck gave her bigger chances by not facing UConn’s machines.

# Azzi Fudd College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
 

bballnut90

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Not a “bust”. It’s unfair to call an njured player a bust. It will be interesting to see who ends up being considered the best of the 2021 class.

Looks like Iriafen or Morrow at this juncture. This class has had an abnormal number of injuries. Seems like every standout has been injury plagued and/or transferred. Interestingly the hype behind UCONN/SC recruits dominating hasn’t planned out as expected, with none of the top 5 turning into major standouts for either program (though an argument could be made for Raven Johnson).
 
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Only Morrow has been an All-American. It’s a bit premature to hold a really strong opinion on who is best-in-class, since none of these folks have had a consequential All-American season.

It’s offseason chatter. It’s amusing and welcome, but one shouldn’t be so wedded to a position with such limited data until perhaps mid-way through these folks’ de-jure senior years.

Azzi Fudd, 42 games: Azzi Fudd
Raven Johnson#, 75 games: Raven Johnson
Kiki Iriafen, 104 games: Kiki Iriafen
Andeesah Morrow, 103 games: Aneesah Morrow

# Two natty’s: one in her redshirt season and another one where a freshman and two key transfers had as much of an impact on that natty.
 
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I wonder if Covid impacted the rankings for the 2021 class. Some sports seasons were cancelled for the 2020-2021 year, nobody was attending/scouting players, and I doubt there were very many invitationals where they could showcase their skills. All in all, it probably led to less accurate rankings than usual because students were not getting their usual exposure.
 

WBBTakeover

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500 points heading into her senior year. Bust. Don't really care about the whys since I'm not related to her.
Exactly.

If we were talking about a men's basketball player (specifically a Duke MBB player) in the same predicament, no one would have any reservations about labeling him a bust.

We are three years removed from the high school graduations for the Class of 2021. If we can't express any strong opinions on them now, when can we?
 
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Exactly.

If we were talking about a men's basketball player (specifically a Duke MBB player) in the same predicament, no one would have any reservations about labeling him a bust.

We are three years removed from the high school graduations for the Class of 2021. If we can't express any strong opinions on them now, when can we?
You’re making a fallacious argument — appeal to authority i.e. if it were MBB instead of WBB to double down on your priors.

As you know, the WNBA does not allow early departures from college as the NBA. People can make an inference in MCBB that top recruits who don’t depart early for the NBA are not any good. You cannot make the same inference in WCBB.

FWIW, uninjured Kiki Iriafen wasn’t that impressive until her junior season after having two full prior seasons.
 

WBBTakeover

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You’re making a fallacious argument — appeal to authority i.e. if it were MBB instead of WBB to double down on your priors.
How is that a fallacious argument? People choose when and when not to compare the men's and women's game, and many WBB fans will gladly make the MBB comparison when it shows WBB in a more favorable light. Why cherrypick when and when not to make the comparisons?

I stand by what I said. If we were talking about a men's player, there wouldn't be any blowback. But because we're talking about a women's player, specifically a UConn Husky, there is blowback--and there shouldn't be. She's a bust. Her gender and where she goes to school should not matter when it comes to this label. A bust is a bust.

As you know, the WNBA does not allow early departures from college as the NBA. People can make an inference in MCBB that top recruits who don’t depart early for the NBA are not any good. You cannot make the same inference in WCBB.

You can still infer that a player is a bust when she has not produced at the level of her peers in the same calendar frame. WBB players don't need to go to the WNBA early for people to see that they're on a different trajectory than those who haven't had similar production. You can see that from the production as well as the accolades. Azzi does not have the production nor the accolades of a player who was the #1 recruit in her class. That's the truth.

FWIW, uninjured Kiki Iriafen wasn’t that impressive until her junior season after having two full prior seasons.

But Kiki wasn't the #1-rated player in her class, was she? Was she even Top 5? Top 10? Top 20? Stanford had depth at her position. Lucky for them, she stuck it out.

And as for that junior year at Stanford that you're trying to downplay--Kiki scored more points that season than Azzi has scored in her entire collegiate career. And I think we know which player is being discussed as a potential #1 overall draft pick in 2025 and which one isn't.
 
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How is that a fallacious argument? People choose when and when not to compare the men's and women's game, and many WBB fans will gladly make the MBB comparison when it shows WBB in a more favorable light. Why cherrypick when and when not to make the comparisons?

I stand by what I said. If we were talking about a men's player, there wouldn't be any blowback. But because we're talking about a women's player, specifically a UConn Husky, there is blowback--and there shouldn't be. She's a bust. Her gender and where she goes to school should not matter when it comes to this label. A bust is a bust.



You can still infer that a player is a bust when she has not produced at the level of her peers in the same calendar frame. WBB players don't need to go to the WNBA early for people to see that they're on a different trajectory than those who haven't had similar production. You can see that from the production as well as the accolades. Azzi does not have the production nor the accolades of a player who was the #1 recruit in her class. That's the truth.



But Kiki wasn't the #1-rated player in her class, was she? Was she even Top 5? Top 10? Top 20? Stanford had depth at her position. Lucky for them, she stuck it out.

And as for that junior year at Stanford that you're trying to downplay--Kiki scored more points that season than Azzi has scored in her entire collegiate career. And I think we know which player is being discussed as a potential #1 overall draft pick in 2025 and which one isn't.
“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

You’re applying the MBB principles, which I imho pointed out doesn’t apply, to your argument.

I remember the arguments on Aaliyah Edwards during the end of her sophomore year, vis a vis Laeticia Amihere. They have both been drafted to the WNBA in the first round, with Aaliyah becoming an AA.

The point is, in head-to-head comparisons in WCBB — and it doesn’t matter where the players were initially ranked in high school —the only fair comparison, imho, is after each have exhausted their eligibility.

I find your arguments unpersuasive as you have your principles and I have mine. Let’s just leave it at that,
 
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“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

You’re applying the MBB principles, which I imho pointed out doesn’t apply, to your argument.

I remember the arguments on Aaliyah Edwards during the end of her sophomore year, vis a vis Laeticia Amihere. They have both been drafted to the WNBA in the first round, with Aaliyah becoming an AA.

The point is, in head-to-head comparisons in WCBB — and it doesn’t matter where the players were initially ranked in high school —the only fair comparison, imho, is after each have exhausted their eligibility.

I find your arguments unpersuasive as you have your principles and I have mine. Let’s just leave it at that,
The suggestion Azzi is a bust is completely off the mark. In what planet of sports is your #3 scorer on the team as a frosh that helped your team get to the WCBB Finals (let that sink in- The Finals.) a bust? On top of that she was the 3rd leading scorer in the NCAA's for UCONN her frosh year. On top of that UCONN loses to UCF in rd 2 if not for her leading UCONN in scoring. In what reality is this considered a bust for a freshman?

And yet one of the posters here identifying Azzi as a bust has also tried so hard to downplay the Freshman Sarah Strong when he or she said that they don't expect a lot from freshmen. Now all of a sudden when a player like Azzi produced as a freshman like she did her freshman year, that doesn’t count? You woudl thinkwith no expctations ot what Aziz did - that would count. But noooooo. :)

And anyone calling her a bust because of her ranking would be lunacy. Games are won by performance. Not High School rankings.
 
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Amplifying Hophuskee’s point.

#1 Recruits that had immediate impact in their first year.
# National championship.
## Derailed national championship due to injuries.
### See contrast with Megan Walker ¥: 2017-18 UConn Huskies Women's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
@ Runner-up.
@@ KLS replaced graduated Kaleena in starting lineup. Napheesa didn’t have as much impact as classmate KLS.
¥ Derailed national championship due to being upset by Achilles heel teams or being beaten by Notre Dame or by Stanford.
I love this post. Imo some UCONN fans just want to look at things all negative unless they win a title. That only could be true when UCONN is "dominant." Geno has all but said so. Anyone thinks that's wrong - we can ease get the quote.

Anyhow, I don't know much about Southern Cal - all their pickups but in regard South Carolian - what has made them special these last three-four years is that they closed down the paint. And one good way to beat them was go bombs away from the outside. Paige did as a frosh and Caitlin did as a junior. You had to get hot because their ability to score was so hard to stop so winning 58-57 games was also hard to do because you couldn't hold them to such a low number.

And this is where I think Sarah (and Jana) will have to shine. Because I Don’t know enough about Jana - for conversation looking at Sarah -- if she can score some baskets and be a threat on the inside then that changes a lot. UCONN can run "an Offense" instead of being forced to only score from the outside. UCONN doesn't need to score a lot - but score enough to be a legit threat.

The ability (or lack thereof) for Sarah to score inside and to also rebound (i.e. they don't go easily over the top of her) will dictate a lot of UCONN's potential success they would have vs South Carolina and other big/physical/athletic teams.

But to completely disregard a #1 recruit is just crazy.

The good think about Sarah is that she is also known for being an excellent outside shooter. SO it's not like she is "inside-or-bust." UCONN can win games just from the perimeter vs very good teams which is why in summation we're right there with the 2 SoCar and SOCal teams. Another big Achilles for UCONN is their youth up front. Which is why I put them behind these teams. Iriafen imo was important for SoCal.
 

WBBTakeover

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“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.”
I've been pretty firm in what I've said regarding Azzi being a bust and how this would not be an issue if her gender or school affiliation were different.

You’re applying the MBB principles, which I imho pointed out doesn’t apply, to your argument.
You haven't done so, as I mentioned that WCBB players do not have to go pro early for everyone to see that other players have not reached expectations (hence the label, "bust"). You can spot a WCBB bust just as easily as you can spot a MCBB one. Accolades, achievements, and statistics are still recorded and discussed in WCBB, are they not?

I remember the arguments on Aaliyah Edwards during the end of her sophomore year, vis a vis Laeticia Amihere. They have both been drafted to the WNBA in the first round, with Aaliyah becoming an AA.
How is this related to the discussion of Azzi being a bust, unless you're saying that either (1) both players were considered the top prospects in their respective classes but failed to reach lofty expectations (which isn't true--neither player was the #1 player in her class) or (2) both players far exceeded expectations to the point where they were considered the top player in their respective classes once they graduated (again, untrue--as neither player is named "Aliyah Boston" or "Caitlin Clark")?

The point is, in head-to-head comparisons in WCBB — and it doesn’t matter where the players were initially ranked in high school —the only fair comparison, imho, is after each have exhausted their eligibility.
If that were the case, then why were there so many "Caitlin versus Paige" discussions during this past season? You mean to tell me that there weren't any "Stewie versus Dee" conversations back in 2015-16? Seems to me like you can have these discussions in earnest even if a player's eligibility hasn't been exhausted--as long as the outcome is favorable towards certain players. Since these conversations do not favor Azzi, we have to wait to see how her career plays out.

I find your arguments unpersuasive as you have your principles and I have mine. Let’s just leave it at that,
I do not care one bit. I have a right to my opinion as you do to yours. I am of the opinion that Azzi is a bust and nothing you've said or will say will change that.

Now--I'll end it on THAT.
 

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