USA Women's U18 3X3 Team Win in Jakarta

[UcMiami]

Highly agree. I do not think 3x3 strengthens fundamentals. If anything beyond pick and rolls and some screens it reinforces 1x1 skills. You are spot on UcM.

Exactly - just watched a few of the men's 3x3 and the USA women's games and the pace is frenetic and very sloppy - not sure how much any of these teams train together which may add to the sloppiness, but ...
It is I am sure a lot of fun to play 3x3 in BB and in soccer as it was when I used to play 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, in volleyball depending on how many people we could rope in for a game, and I am sure you can improve some of your individual skills in those environments. But you would improve your skills more working on them one on one outside a game situation and even more if you had a coach working with you. If you want to improve the form on your backhand in tennis for example having someone stand at the net with a bucket of balls and hit them at you is a lot better than playing a match.

 

[MarlboroughMike]

While 5 x 5 teams play is the major/ultimate goal, 1 x 1 skill is not necessarily a negative. This is the very attribute that CD said that KML needs to develop, creating her own shot 1 x 1.

 

[Icebear]

While 5 x 5 teams play is the major/ultimate goal, 1 x 1 skill is not necessarily a negative. This is the very attribute that CD said that KML needs to develop, creating her own shot 1 x 1.

But it is not the type of fundamentals most of these kids are missing. It is an incorrect solution to the wrong problem.

 

[UcMiami]

I apparently didn't make my point effectively. I fully agree there is more need for skills drills. I wasn't suggesting that 3x3 effectively replaces those drills. Playing "only" 3x3 isn't going to be enough. There are many skills that need to be taught that won't be learned simply playing 3x3.

However, I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

If someone organizes a skills only weekend, how many will show up? It won't help to have opportunities to learn skills if they aren't utilized.

However, the "arrows in the quiver" are 40 minute 5x5 games and skills sessions. I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to include 3x3 in the mix. Icebear notes that 3x3 may encourage one on one plays, which may not end up being a positive contribution to five person team play. Are there other bad habits that 3x3 would encourage?
Do the positive contributions (more passing,more touches) out-weight the negatives?

Another major benefit, I think, is that the games are so much shorter. A traditional 40 minutes 5x5 game (without media timeouts) can be done in under two hours, but not much under. One can only schedule so may games in a full day. However, 3x3 is a ten minute game, with fewer stoppages, so can be completed in 15 minutes or so. The FIBA events are scheduled every 20 minutes,a ad that allow time for the next team to take warm ups and play a game. That's six games in two hours, rather than one. But I wouldn't schedule 24 games in an eight hour day, why not schedule 12 games, and intersperse with drills. Or 18 games plus drills. There's a lot of flexibility to have games and drills, more so than with 5x5 games.

OK - I guess a little misinterpretation, but if what you are trying to do is create a competition to cap or intersperse with a skills session, there is nothing that says a 5x5 has to be 40 minutes long. You could divide the attendees into balanced five man teams and play 10 minute/21 pt games - that is the standard in gyms/street ball everywhere and even in a gym with a single court you could play two half court games at a go. I think there really is a significant difference in the process between playing with wide open spaces (3x3) and playing on a crowded court with 5x5. And 3x3 can reinforce bad habits and lazy passing that gets punished against 5 players. And how much time do you want a Tina Charles type player guarding a Moriah Jefferson 20 feet from the basket? And visa versa at the basket - it happens all the time in 3x3, but a lot less frequently in 5x5. Moriah learns that she can drive past her with ease and Tina learns she can score at will at the rim but we already knew that, and neither develops any knew skills.
I agree that you see a lot more of the ball in 3x3, but I just don't think it actually helps you that much.

 

[Phil]

I'm glad you mentioned volleyball, because it is a great example.

I played volleyball in high school gym classes, typically 9x9 which is close to a joke. The average number of touches per player is about 5% of the touches, but the distribution is very skewed. If you are a less than average skilled player (and I was well below average as a frosh, soph and junior), you might get a touch on the initial receipt of serve, but after that, a skilled player will pass to a skilled setter (which isn't me) who will set to a skilled hitter (which isn't me). The main touches will be to chase poorly set balls which are intended for someone else, but end up somewhere near you. Oh yeah, and as the target of a smash from the other team, if they have some skill. My guess is that less than average skilled players touch the ball less than 2% of the touches, half of which are poorly placed. Not exactly a recipe for improvement. As a skilled player, which I was as a senior (oddly due to math skills), I far more than my fair share of touches, because I could set and I could hit, but that meant my skills improved while many others did not.

I also played 2x2 and I think that helped improve skills immensely. There's zero standing around in 2x2, while there are points in 6x6 where one or more players aren't involved.


It is worth debating whether 3x3 strengthens skill sets that need strengthening. I accept that it helps one on one, which isn't usually the area needing most help. However, it does force more touching of the ball and more ball handling and I think that is a good thing.

I do agree there is nothing written in stone that says 5x5 has to be 40 minutes games. I don't know why they couldn't have shorter games, or maybe they do, but that won't increase the percentage of time touching the ball.

 

[UConnCat]

Yikes, wonder who got that assignment.

Chris Dailey.

 

[meyers7]

Chris Dailey.

Indonesia, not somewhere I'd ever want to go.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Video Interview with Players - LInk

Mike Flynn is at tournament.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Basketball is a combination of 1 on 1 and team plays. Sort of by definition. While I agree that the 1 on 1 skills are more developed (relatively) in young players than understanding the more complex aspects of playing 5 on 5 BB, 3x3 games could only help, I think. More practice in ball handling, and shooting skills; because, for the top players especially, one on one skills are 100% necessary. Look how the ability to create your own shot is valued.

 

[UcMiami]

Indonesia, not somewhere I'd ever want to go.

Was just there this past spring and really enjoyed it - a very quick visit while a friend had some business meetings. Friendly and beautiful, very mixed ethnically, and a very relaxed approach to religion. It has a huge population spread across the islands with some islands dominated by different religions. Climate wise it was much cooler and less sticky than Thailand - more oceanic climate - even though it is basically on the equator. Business wise it is booming as is almost all of SE Asia. I am sure that any one of the assistants/associate would have a great time.

 

[Wbbfan1]

USA Basketball Article on Today's Games Link

 

[RockyMTblue2]

3x3 is a lot like one wall racquet ball...fast but so what. Great for really good players to demonstrate their stuff, but for those of us who love basketball it is like watching warm up drills.

 

[pap49cba]

USA loses to Lithuania 9-11. Next up another undefeated... Spain.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Didn't like how this team was formed. Team USA picked the players without any real competition. 3 x 3 Play requires strong guard play with outstanding shooters. Don't think this team has great guards and only Katie Samuelson is a shooter. Still have a chance to bring back the gold.

USA loses to Lithuania 9-11. Next up another undefeated... Spain.

 

[Fightin Choke]

USA loses to Lithuania 9-11. Next up another undefeated... Spain.

Spain is not undefeated, as they also lost to Lithuania, 13-11. USA/Spain should be a good game.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Didn't like how this team was formed. Team USA picked the players without any real competition. 3 x 3 Play requires strong guard play with outstanding shooters. Don't think this team has great guards and only Katie Samuelson is a shooter. Still have a chance to bring back the gold.

No competition? I think you're thinking of last years 3x3 team, where Chiney, Skylar, Bria and Alyssa breezed through the trials in Colorado Springs without any true competition. (And then Alyssa couldn't play so the team chose Ann Strother as a replacement.) This year's team had good competition at the trials.

As for the make-up of the team, I wouldn't say that guard play and outside shooting are the sole important attributes, because the ability/quickness to play good man-to-man defense is paramount. USA played good defense against Lithuania (judging by the final score, as I didn't see the game), but they obviously didn't execute on offense. How often do the Lithuanians play 3x3? They may be more familiar with the game than Americans, and the USA women had little time to practice with each other and learn the nuances of the game. Team USA has the athletes to win, but they need to play well.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Well that went much better. But Gabby Green still seems like a liability out there. USA wins 14-11.

 

[Wbbfan1]

USA Beat Spain 14-11.

No, this team had no competition and was put together by Team USA. Mike Flynn and others complained about how the team was put together. He even stated team was chosen before the tournament. USA Basketball did deny it. If you look at the roster, many of the best U18 players were not involved. Roster of Tournament Link

I've watched a number of the games and this team does not have an outstanding shooter and weak at guard play. They're trying to win by relying on their superior size.

I also don't understand how some have Brianna Turner the #1 Ranked player in the country.

 

[Wbbfan1]

USA plays Thailand in Knockout round. Win and go on lose and go home. They should beat Thailand. Game is at 11:10 and I don't know if it will be streamed. Win and they play the winner of Brazil and France. Knockout Round - Link

 

[UcMiami]

USA Beat Spain 14-11.

No, this team had no competition and was put together by Team USA. Mike Flynn and others complained about how the team was put together. He even stated team was chosen before the tournament. USA Basketball did deny it. If you look at the roster, many of the best U18 players were not involved. Roster of Tournament Link

I've watched a number of the games and this team does not have an outstanding shooter and weak at guard play. They're trying to win by relying on their superior size.

I also don't understand how some have Brianna Turner the #1 Ranked player in the country.

I do think they probably had a number of kids/parents decline the invitation to participate given the timing of this event in the middle of the academic fall period - they are missing a week of school. But I agree that they formed teams of the kids that did come to the trials before the event and then took one team rather than rearrange the final USA team from the best performers on all teams. That choice may have been influenced by the fact that they had little or no additional practice before the tournament started, but ...Based on the one game I watched (China) I was really unimpressed with Green who shot air balls or ones that just nicked the rim and whose defense was of the 'Ole' variety - there were a couple of drives by China #6 where she barely moved as the player sailed past on lefty drives to the hoop. And Turner did seem pretty lethargic as well.
Overall that game was not an impressive win for USA and the quality of play from some of the top HS kids is one reason I question the value of 3X3 in terms of skills development.
I don't watch much HS video but between this 3x3 game and her performance on the USA team this summer Turner has not overly impressed me - this summer she seemed closer to the end of the bench than the top end of talent on display and I agree with the questioning of #1 ranking in her class. Based on my limited sample I would have expected somewhere in the #5-#10 range.

 

[Wbbfan1]

USA Men lost to Lithuania 15-12 in the Knock Out Round. No Medal. Could have won if they made their Free Throws. Was watching the stream before it failed.

 

[Wbbfan1]

USA beats Thailand 21 - 14 and play France sometime tomorrow. France is 6-0 and will be a tough match up.

 

[doggydaddy]

USA Beat Spain 14-11.

No, this team had no competition and was put together by Team USA. Mike Flynn and others complained about how the team was put together. He even stated team was chosen before the tournament. USA Basketball did deny it. If you look at the roster, many of the best U18 players were not involved. Roster of Tournament Link

I've watched a number of the games and this team does not have an outstanding shooter and weak at guard play. They're trying to win by relying on their superior size.

I also don't understand how some have Brianna Turner the #1 Ranked player in the country.

People always complain about something, especially when it comes to picking players for teams or awards.

This team does not have an outstanding shooter? Really?

 

[Wbbfan1]

Have you watched the games? If so, you'd understand my comment. In one of my earlier posts, I did say Katie was the only shooter, but IMHO she's not having a great tournament. Thus my comment. Its one thing to make shots against over matched competition, make them when you're playing competitive teams.

People always complain about something, especially when it comes to picking players for teams or awards.

This team does not have an outstanding shooter? Really?

 

[doggydaddy]

Have you watched the games? If so, you'd understand my comment. In one of my earlier posts, I did say Katie was the only shooter, but IMHO she's not having a great tournament. Thus my comment. Its one thing to make shots against over matched competition, make them when you're playing competitive teams.

There is a difference between not shooting well and not being a great shooter.

She is a great shooter.