USA Women's U18 3X3 Team Win in Jakarta

[Wbbfan1]

USA beat Guam 21-2 according to USA Basketball

Beat Puerto Rico in their 2nd game, 21-2

Team members are Gabby Green, Katie Samuelson, Brianna Turner and Arike Ogunbowale.

According to Mike Flynn coaches from Stanford, Duke, UConn & ND are in attendance.

Guess that shows the interest in Katie if Geno is willing to send a coach to Indonesia to watch her play. Does anyone know if the staff is intersted in Arike? Profile - Link

 

[meyers7]

According to Mike Flynn coaches from Stanford, Duke, UConn & ND are in attendance.

Guess that shows the interest in Katie if Geno is willing to send a coach to Indonesia to watch her play.

Yikes, wonder who got that assignment.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Web Site for the Championship. Link

Scores - Link

Looks like there is Live Streaming of the Games. Don't know which games will be streamed.

Kate Paye is tweeting from there, so she's the Stanford coach. I doubt Geno is there.

 

[Phil]

Next up, China, in about 2 hours

Game scheduled to start at 9:20 local time.
11 hours difference so it is 7:42 there now.

 

[Phil]

As part of the Ackerman Report inspired discussions, there's a lot of talk about improving fundamentals, and the observation that young players spend too much time in tournaments, and too little time drilling fundamentals.

That's easy to say, and the groups weighing in are agreeing that more time should be spent on fundamentals, but it is easier said than done.

A parent may pony up money for an entrance fee, and spend a weekend driving a player to a tournament, when they get the opportunity to play in several games. will they do the same if the weekend is spent practicing pick and rolls?

One possibility is to have hybrid events, with a mixture of tournament games and skills drills.

However, I read about another intriguing possibility, and I'd like to hear the feedback of the collective Boneyard brain trust (all welcome to respond . I read somewhere than one challenge with playing traditional 5 on 5 is that, by definition, players average 10% of the time with the ball. The more skilled players will get more, so any players will have the ball under 10% of the time. While moving without the ball is a skill, so is ball handling and passing effectively. It is possible to play a lot on a 5 player team, yet not get a lot on game practice on some skills.

In contrast, 3x3 games increase the time spent with the ball for each player. In addition, it's virtually impossible to get lost in the offence; with only three players, you have to be active and moving, ready to catch the ball, ready to pass, and shoot. While playing 3x3 may not be as good as a pure skills drill, it is playing a game, and I suspect most players would rather be playing a game than doing a drill.

I'm interested in reactions; should the wbb community be sponsoring more 3x3 tournaments on the argument that it does help build skills? I support this argument, and think it would make sense even if there were not FIBA sponsored tournaments, but the existence of the FIBA Tournaments just makes it easier to make the case. It is now a "legitimate" game, not just something to do when not enough players show up.

 

[Fightin Choke]

USA beat Guam 21-2 according to USA Basketball

Beat Puerto Rico in their 2nd game, 21-2

Team members are Gabby Green, Katie Samuelson, Brianna Turner and Arike Ogunbowale.

According to Mike Flynn coaches from Stanford, Duke, UConn & ND are in attendance.

Guess that shows the interest in Katie if Geno is willing to send a coach to Indonesia to watch her play. Does anyone know if the staff is intersted in Arike? Profile - Link

Yes, Geno is also interested in Arike, as is Muffet and probably the rest of the coaches as well. Geno visited in Arike in Wisconsin a couple weeks ago.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Girls on court warming up now.

I am getting live video at
http://indonesia2013.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/13/3x3/u18wc/p/live-day2.html

 

[Phil]

Game live now

http://indonesia2013.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/13/3x3/u18wc/p/live-day2.html

 

[Phil]

USA up 7-5

 

[Phil]

Chinese player made great post move and apparently open, but USA stripped the ball and scored. Missed who did it

Now 7-7

 

[Phil]

China missed ft to take lead. USA scored to lead 8-7

 

[Phil]

USA was up 11-7 but China ties at 11

 

[Phil]

Samuelson was sitting, comes back in an hits a 2 (three point line), but China answers

Now 14 all, China with ball

 

[Phil]

Nice steal by USA, USA wins 18-16.
Close match.

 

[Fightin Choke]

USA wins 19-16, but it's closer than it should be. The team looks better with Green sitting, as she had a bad game. Turner uses her length well, as she alters shots (and blocks them) and boards well. Arike so strong for her size. Lou looked frustrated.

 

[Phil]

Shortest player on Chinese team is 6' even (others are 6" 1". USA still has height advantage. Are any of the Chinese players considering US colleges?

 

[Fightin Choke]

Shortest player on Chinese team is 6' even (others are 6" 1". USA still has height advantage. Are any of the Chinese players considering US colleges?

I have no idea but that one small(ish) Chinese player was deadly from range (by far their best weapon).

 

[Phil]

USA wins 19-16, but it's closer than it should be. The team looks better with Green sitting, as she had a bad game. Turner uses her length well, as she alters shots (and blocks them) and boards well. Arike so strong for her size. Lou looked frustrated.

Not that it matters, but I thought the scoreboard read 18-16 when time ran out. USA had a late free throw, but it was missed. Did I misread the scoreboard?

 

[DavidinNaples]

As part of the Ackerman Report inspired discussions, there's a lot of talk about improving fundamentals, and the observation that young players spend too much time in tournaments, and too little time drilling fundamentals.

That's easy to say, and the groups weighing in are agreeing that more time should be spent on fundamentals, but it is easier said than done.

A parent may pony up money for an entrance fee, and spend a weekend driving a player to a tournament, when they get the opportunity to play in several games. will they do the same if the weekend is spent practicing pick and rolls?

One possibility is to have hybrid events, with a mixture of tournament games and skills drills.

However, I read about another intriguing possibility, and I'd like to hear the feedback of the collective Boneyard brain trust (all welcome to respond . I read somewhere than one challenge with playing traditional 5 on 5 is that, by definition, players average 10% of the time with the ball. The more skilled players will get more, so any players will have the ball under 10% of the time. While moving without the ball is a skill, so is ball handling and passing effectively. It is possible to play a lot on a 5 player team, yet not get a lot on game practice on some skills.

In contrast, 3x3 games increase the time spent with the ball for each player. In addition, it's virtually impossible to get lost in the offence; with only three players, you have to be active and moving, ready to catch the ball, ready to pass, and shoot. While playing 3x3 may not be as good as a pure skills drill, it is playing a game, and I suspect most players would rather be playing a game than doing a drill.

I'm interested in reactions; should the wbb community be sponsoring more 3x3 tournaments on the argument that it does help build skills? I support this argument, and think it would make sense even if there were not FIBA sponsored tournaments, but the existence of the FIBA Tournaments just makes it easier to make the case. It is now a "legitimate" game, not just something to do when not enough players show up.

phil...agree w/ use of 3x3 format for off-season basketball...soccer has done this at the youth level and the results have been great...3 players instead of 11 gives everyone more time with the ball, smaller field w/ no goalie = more passing & more scoring, shorter games allows up to 5 games in a single day, less kids per team means more teams & better match of skill levels... All this would basically be true w/ basketball as well... good thought provoking piece..

 

[Fightin Choke]

Not that it matters, but I thought the scoreboard read 18-16 when time ran out. USA had a late free throw, but it was missed. Did I misread the scoreboard?

Yeah, it was 19-16 before Turner missed the FT with 4 seconds left. See here (and click on womens): LINK

 

[UcMiami]

Phil - don't think the 3x3 game is good on fundamentals and what the coaches are talking about is the kind of drills and repetitions to teach footwork, shooting form, setting and using screens, etc. The problem with any game situation is that you cannot stop and correct and repeat. And the 3x3 while you get more offensive and defensive participation is so hectic that is even more like street ball than 5x5.
The problem that they are identifying and looking for ways to correct are two fold - the explosion of AAU teams that often have very little contact except on actual game days so the coaching is more game management than actual coaching, and the very wide range of skills of coaches at HS level where they actually have the time with a team to teach skills and systems.
I actually think the ideas they discussed of sponsoring skills gatherings that would also be showcases for recruiting and improving/increasing coaching clinics and providing a level of certification for coaches are pretty interesting. And I think parents would have a solid reaction to transporting their kids to a showcase skills training event if it was seen as a way to market their kid to colleges.
On Edit:
Most of the stuff you see on Geno during practice is not 'game' action - besides the individual position work, you see 'sets' where they are running the same basic offense (with variations) over and over with frequent stops where he corrects mistakes or makes specific points about what just happened. That is the kind of stuff that is missing from most summer activities, and where the quality in season at the HS level may be lacking.

 

[UConnCat]

As part of the Ackerman Report inspired discussions, there's a lot of talk about improving fundamentals, and the observation that young players spend too much time in tournaments, and too little time drilling fundamentals.

That's easy to say, and the groups weighing in are agreeing that more time should be spent on fundamentals, but it is easier said than done.

A parent may pony up money for an entrance fee, and spend a weekend driving a player to a tournament, when they get the opportunity to play in several games. will they do the same if the weekend is spent practicing pick and rolls?

One possibility is to have hybrid events, with a mixture of tournament games and skills drills.

However, I read about another intriguing possibility, and I'd like to hear the feedback of the collective Boneyard brain trust (all welcome to respond . I read somewhere than one challenge with playing traditional 5 on 5 is that, by definition, players average 10% of the time with the ball. The more skilled players will get more, so any players will have the ball under 10% of the time. While moving without the ball is a skill, so is ball handling and passing effectively. It is possible to play a lot on a 5 player team, yet not get a lot on game practice on some skills.

In contrast, 3x3 games increase the time spent with the ball for each player. In addition, it's virtually impossible to get lost in the offence; with only three players, you have to be active and moving, ready to catch the ball, ready to pass, and shoot. While playing 3x3 may not be as good as a pure skills drill, it is playing a game, and I suspect most players would rather be playing a game than doing a drill.

I'm interested in reactions; should the wbb community be sponsoring more 3x3 tournaments on the argument that it does help build skills? I support this argument, and think it would make sense even if there were not FIBA sponsored tournaments, but the existence of the FIBA Tournaments just makes it easier to make the case. It is now a "legitimate" game, not just something to do when not enough players show up.

I like 3x3 for the reasons you mention. Players touch the ball more often, there is less standing around as you have to be active to get open or get your teammates open, there's more space to operate, you learn the pick and roll in game action, it requires better ballhandling and passing skills. It shouldn't replace drills and the discipline that comes from repetition, but it can teach players the fundamentals of half-court execution which is sorely lacking in the college game.

It also forces player to figure things out on the fly and make their own decisions on what to do. How many times do we hear Geno urging his players to figure it out?

 

[Icebear]

Highly agree. I do not think 3x3 strengthens fundamentals. If anything beyond pick and rolls and some screens it reinforces 1x1 skills. You are spot on UcM.

 

[MarlboroughMike]

Coaches need to teach fundamentals, kids want to compete and have fun. Run skill camps that end with 3 x 3 games/tournament. 5 x 5 it is more like fundamentals to kids (not so much fun) and not as unstructured as 3 x 3 (fun).

 

[Phil]

Phil - don't think the 3x3 game is good on fundamentals and what the coaches are talking about is the kind of drills and repetitions to teach footwork, shooting form, setting and using screens, etc. The problem with any game situation is that you cannot stop and correct and repeat. And the 3x3 while you get more offensive and defensive participation is so hectic that is even more like street ball than 5x5.
The problem that they are identifying and looking for ways to correct are two fold - the explosion of AAU teams that often have very little contact except on actual game days so the coaching is more game management than actual coaching, and the very wide range of skills of coaches at HS level where they actually have the time with a team to teach skills and systems.
I actually think the ideas they discussed of sponsoring skills gatherings that would also be showcases for recruiting and improving/increasing coaching clinics and providing a level of certification for coaches are pretty interesting. And I think parents would have a solid reaction to transporting their kids to a showcase skills training event if it was seen as a way to market their kid to colleges.
On Edit:
Most of the stuff you see on Geno during practice is not 'game' action - besides the individual position work, you see 'sets' where they are running the same basic offense (with variations) over and over with frequent stops where he corrects mistakes or makes specific points about what just happened. That is the kind of stuff that is missing from most summer activities, and where the quality in season at the HS level may be lacking.

I apparently didn't make my point effectively. I fully agree there is more need for skills drills. I wasn't suggesting that 3x3 effectively replaces those drills. Playing "only" 3x3 isn't going to be enough. There are many skills that need to be taught that won't be learned simply playing 3x3.

However, I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

If someone organizes a skills only weekend, how many will show up? It won't help to have opportunities to learn skills if they aren't utilized.

However, the "arrows in the quiver" are 40 minute 5x5 games and skills sessions. I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to include 3x3 in the mix. Icebear notes that 3x3 may encourage one on one plays, which may not end up being a positive contribution to five person team play. Are there other bad habits that 3x3 would encourage?
Do the positive contributions (more passing,more touches) out-weight the negatives?

Another major benefit, I think, is that the games are so much shorter. A traditional 40 minutes 5x5 game (without media timeouts) can be done in under two hours, but not much under. One can only schedule so may games in a full day. However, 3x3 is a ten minute game, with fewer stoppages, so can be completed in 15 minutes or so. The FIBA events are scheduled every 20 minutes,a ad that allow time for the next team to take warm ups and play a game. That's six games in two hours, rather than one. But I wouldn't schedule 24 games in an eight hour day, why not schedule 12 games, and intersperse with drills. Or 18 games plus drills. There's a lot of flexibility to have games and drills, more so than with 5x5 games.