USA TODAY Sports women's basketball All-American teams

[cbraarj]

Not sure why you went full on rude here, but I'll play. McCowan (note the lack of an s) is 6'7" and among the biggest players in the country. Not too many of those are forwards. You do know what a Post player is don't you?

There are three guards on the 3rd team AA list so obviously each team is not made up of 2 guards, 2 forwards and 1 center. Probably just the 15 highest vote getters.

I am sorry that McPhee got injured, but AA honors should take into account a season's work and if you miss games and better candidates put up better numbers then so be it. I'll wait for your argument as to how McPhee's seasonal numbers qualify her as an AA over McCowan or Nurse or any number of other players?

With that last paragraph in your mind KLS should not make it either! Uconn players dont play a lot of minutes especially the starters. They have 5 players scoring in double figures. Hopefully KLS gets a honorable mention,lol.

 

[WLT1717]

No comment on Gabby vs VV other than they are both wonderful players, but I can assure you that the vast majority of MSU fans know who the leader and most vital player is for the 2018 Bulldogs, and our post is really good too (and named McCowan).

First opportunity to watch McCowan last weekend. Even when hampered by fouls, you can see she's a rising star. Just going to keep getting better with such talent, drive, and coaching.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Obviously Lexie Brown and Cunningham were the obvious omissions. But who would you remove to put them on it. There are no obvious answers.

 

[skilz]

Obviously Lexie Brown and Cunningham were the obvious omissions. But who would you remove to put them on it. There are no obvious answers.

Brook McCarty would be one... Brook struggled all year.

 

[IWearShoes]

With that last paragraph in your mind KLS should not make it either! Uconn players dont play a lot of minutes especially the starters. They have 5 players scoring in double figures. Hopefully KLS gets a honorable mention,lol.

Most are aware that the Uconn players are in a different situation because of the large number of blowouts. Throw out my minutes comments if you like and tell me how McPhee had a better year than McCowan when not considering she missed a quarter of the season. Also, you can certainly compare a guard to a center if there is not a guideline for how many of each make the AA teams.

 

[IWearShoes]

Obviously Lexie Brown and Cunningham were the obvious omissions. But who would you remove to put them on it. There are no obvious answers.

Brook McCarty would be one... Brook struggled all year.

McPhee is another obvious one. Cunningham, Brown, Nurse, and McCowan all had better years.

 

[Bama fan]

Just for the sake of pedantry : Mikayla Vaughn is the freshman post player. Mychal Johnson is the senior guard.

It's sometimes hard to keep all the Mikayla/Michaela/Mychal names straight...

It is hard to keep such similar and yet unfamiliar names straight. And BTW, I am sure pedantry appreciates your tip of the hat!

 

[Orangutan]

It's very obvious that I'm biased, but even after all the injuries, there is not a starter in the ND lineup that wasn't rated higher coming out of HS than every player on the Mississippi State team, including our 1st team AA. With the caveat that Geno deserves it pretty much every year, Vic deserves it this year.

You don't think McGraw deserves it because she had more talent that Miss St. but then you say "Geno deserves it pretty much every year"? Ok...

Yes, all but a handful of coaches would trade their starting 5 for Mabrey-Ogunbowale-Young-Westbeld-Shepard in a heartbeat. On the other hand, that's a roster of 3 wings and two power forwards. There is no rim-protecting center (would have been Vaughn and Turner). There is no point guard (Thompson) and no one to defend opposing point guards (Thompson & Johnson).

What's impressive to me about the coaching job McGraw has done is how she has had to adjust on the fly. Mabrey had to go from moonlighting at point guard to being a starting point guard. Young had to pickup playing point guard in the middle of the season while wearing a protective facemask. ND had to switch midseason to playing almost exclusively zone.

And everything ND does has to be done while avoiding foul trouble like the plague as ND has basically 6 players (Danielle Patterson will be very good one day but for now she is still prone to far too many freshman mistakes). That pretty strictly limits how aggressive ND can be defensively.

I think Schaeffer is a fine choice for CoY, by the way. Maybe even a better choice than McGraw. I just think there's more to understanding the job Muffet has done this year than can be seen by simply looking at HS recruting rankings.

 

[DefenseBB]

McPhee is another obvious one. Cunningham, Brown, Nurse, and McCowan all had better years.

You realize that McPhee missed 9 games with injury right? Of the 9 3 were losses and her first game back was Tennessee (a loss) then Stanford went on its run. I have NO quibbles with McPhee. McCarty is not deserving this year over Lexie Brown. Sophie had a good year but I don’t think it’s a travesty in being let off this team. I do think Gustafson played in a poor conference and is over rated (albeit very good, just not AA) and if anything maybe Jordin Canada could be dropped in favor of Cunningham but as a Senior, I am ok with it. The only travesty is Lexie vs. Brooke as I noted their stats above.

McCowan was great this year but I don’t agree she was one of the 15 best, I am hard pressed to place her in top 20, but it’s close. She disappears too much at key moments even for a 32-1 squad. She gotten taken to the woodshed by A’ja and would be beaten badly by Kalani Brown as well. Might even struggle again Texas with White/Holmes.

 

[IWearShoes]

You don't think McGraw deserves it because she had more talent that Miss St. but then you say "Geno deserves it pretty much every year"? Ok...

Yes, all but a handful of coaches would trade their starting 5 for Mabrey-Ogunbowale-Young-Westbeld-Shepard in a heartbeat. On the other hand, that's a roster of 3 wings and two power forwards. There is no rim-protecting center (would have been Vaughn and Turner). There is no point guard (Thompson) and no one to defend opposing point guards (Thompson & Johnson).

What's impressive to me about the coaching job McGraw has done is how she has had to adjust on the fly. Mabrey had to go from moonlighting at point guard to being a starting point guard. Young had to pickup playing point guard in the middle of the season while wearing a protective facemask. ND had to switch midseason to playing almost exclusively zone.

And everything ND does has to be done while avoiding foul trouble like the plague as ND has basically 6 players (Danielle Patterson will be very good one day but for now she is still prone to far too many freshman mistakes). That pretty strictly limits how aggressive ND can be defensively.

I think Schaeffer is a fine choice for CoY, by the way. Maybe even a better choice than McGraw. I just think there's more to understanding the job Muffet has done this year than can be seen by simply looking at HS recruting rankings.

In most years McGraw would absolutely deserve it, and to many she obviously deserves it this year. I just think this was a rare year when she did an outstanding job (along with others), but there was a coach who did even more, with less. Vic's award would be based on the 32-1 culmination of what he built over the last 4 years and the recognition that he dealt this year with key injuries as well, which were much less publicized than ND's. MSU lost two likely major contributors in Iggy Allen to an ACL in the preseason and Ameshya Williams after 1 game when she left school for undisclosed reasons. Vic had to go heavily to a 4 guard lineup at that point. Having McCowan at the rim allowed him this luxury, but it is certain she would not have to play the minutes she does if we had the competent depth we lost.

My comment on Geno was simply prompted by the fact that he is clearly the greatest women's coach of all time so he has to be in the discussion yearly. I only mentioned ND's talent to make it clear just how well Vic has identified and developed the talent on his team and to point out what he has accomplished with lesser initial developed talent.

 

[IWearShoes]

You realize that McPhee missed 9 games with injury right? Of the 9 3 were losses and her first game back was Tennessee (a loss) then Stanford went on its run. I have NO quibbles with McPhee. McCarty is not deserving this year over Lexie Brown. Sophie had a good year but I don’t think it’s a travesty in being let off this team. I do think Gustafson played in a poor conference and is over rated (albeit very good, just not AA) and if anything maybe Jordin Canada could be dropped in favor of Cunningham but as a Senior, I am ok with it. The only travesty is Lexie vs. Brooke as I noted their stats above.

McCowan was great this year but I don’t agree she was one of the 15 best, I am hard pressed to place her in top 20, but it’s close. She disappears too much at key moments even for a 32-1 squad. She gotten taken to the woodshed by A’ja and would be beaten badly by Kalani Brown as well. Might even struggle again Texas with White/Holmes.

Yes I realize McPhee was injured and have addressed it elsewhere in this thread.

You did not discuss her stats at all, which don't remotely measure up to the other players mentioned by me and certainly don't measure up to McCowan's. I will also mention that those 4 players were all on the Wooden Award late season Top 20 and McPhee and McCarty were not. It can be argued McCowan is not Top 15, but there is little argument that will convince me McPhee is Top 15, and I've yet to see a fact based argument presented here. She's apparently the best player on a solid team, but that doesn't make you an AA when other players have better years.

 

[cbraarj]

In reality Geno deserves the award again because he didnt lose again. How many other schools went into the NCAA Tournament undefeated in the last 20 years besides Uconn? The answer is 1. Go back one more year and add Tennessee only NC season when they were unbeaten in 1998. Uconn does more on a yearly basis with its players skills individual and team than any other college team in the country! If you dont believe what I just said. Go back to last year and what they did after losing the first 3 players drafted! Should Geno not receive COY because its guaranted he will do a better job than all the other coaches in Division 1? Geno hit his ceiling so lets make the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best coach the COY to spread the award around! The last 5 years Uconn lost 1 OOC game during the regular season to Stanford by 2 points in OT! So complain about their conference all you whiners want! Put your OOC schedule up to Uconns the last 5 years and if its better than Uconns than you can talk trash about the conference schedule! If its not let it go!

 

[Orangutan]

In most years McGraw would absolutely deserve it, and to many she obviously deserves it this year. I just think this was a rare year when she did an outstanding job (along with others), but there was a coach who did even more, with less. Vic's award would be based on the 32-1 culmination of what he built over the last 4 years and the recognition that he dealt this year with key injuries as well, which were much less publicized than ND's. MSU lost two likely major contributors in Iggy Allen to an ACL in the preseason and Ameshya Williams after 1 game when she left school for undisclosed reasons. Vic had to go heavily to a 4 guard lineup at that point. Having McCowan at the rim allowed him this luxury, but it is certain she would not have to play the minutes she does if we had the competent depth we lost.

I'm not really sure Vic did really do more. Miss St. won a regular-season conference title and lost in the final of the conference tournament. That's the same as ND. Sure, they had an undefeated regular season vs. ND's two losses. They also didn't play at UConn and at Louisville.

But he certainly has less heralded recruits and for his team to be this good after having 3 starters graduate last year is quite impressive. I'm definitely pro-Vic. Just making the pro-Muffet case, as well.

 

[IWearShoes]

South Carolina 2015-2016 was 31-1 going into the tournament with a SEC regular season and a SEC tournament championship. Also went 16-0 in the conference. Only loss was to UConn at that point. By virtue of duel championship I would say that was a better season.

Believe it or not, I considered that season before stating what I did. It's splitting hairs, but State was undefeated in the regular season with only 3 single digit games all year and only one in the SEC regular season. 2016 SC had 7 single digit wins in the regular season plus the UConn loss. 4 of the single digit wins were in the SEC and there were also 4 wins by 10 or 11 points in the SEC. I feel like MSU's was the more dominant regular season, but they were both great seasons and it's probably not worth a debate.

 

[bballnut90]

South Carolina 2015-2016 was 31-1 going into the tournament with a SEC regular season and a SEC tournament championship. Also went 16-0 in the conference. Only loss was to UConn at that point. By virtue of duel championship I would say that was a better season.

I completely disagree. The SEC was much stronger this year than in 2016, and South Carolina had so many close calls. 11 games separated by 10 points or less, plus the UCONN loss. Just 3 SEC teams got top 4 seeds.

Mississippi State has had only 3 games separated by 10 points or less, plus the 1 loss to South Carolina. The SEC is projected to get 5 teams with top 4 seeds.

 

[sharris952]

I completely disagree. The SEC was much stronger this year than in 2016, and South Carolina had so many close calls. 11 games separated by 10 points or less, plus the UCONN loss. Just 3 SEC teams got top 4 seeds.

Mississippi State has had only 3 games separated by 10 points or less, plus the 1 loss to South Carolina. The SEC is projected to get 5 teams with top 4 seeds.

The one thing is that in all these years South Carolina continued to beat Miss. ST. I think 11 of the last 12 is the record, but also in all of South Carolina's years they played good out of conference schedules. MULTIPLE ranked teams at home and on the road, whereas Miss. St. has not scheduled that way similar to Baylor.

 

[bballnut90]

The one thing is that in all these years South Carolina continued to beat Miss. ST. I think 11 of the last 12 is the record, but also in all of South Carolina's years they played good out of conference schedules. MULTIPLE ranked teams at home and on the road, whereas Miss. St. has not scheduled that way similar to Baylor.

That is true that SC has had their number and they played a tougher OOC in 2016 than Mississippi State’s did this year. But I still stand by my statement that 2017-18 Mississippi State has had a better year than 2015-16 SC.

Mississippi State’s OOC is not amazing, but it’s not terrible either. They played a projected 2 seed, a 7, another 7, a 10 and a 9. 5 tournament teams isn’t something to brag about, but it isn’t awful either. Baylor’s OOC has just a 3 and a 4....so 2 games, plus factor in they play in a weak conference that likely gets just 3 bids.

 

[DallasBUFan]

That is true that SC has had their number and they played a tougher OOC in 2016 than Mississippi State’s did this year. But I still stand by my statement that 2017-18 Mississippi State has had a better year than 2015-16 SC.

Mississippi State’s OOC is not amazing, but it’s not terrible either. They played a projected 2 seed, a 7, another 7, a 10 and a 9. 5 tournament teams isn’t something to brag about, but it isn’t awful either. Baylor’s OOC has just a 3 and a 4....so 2 games, plus factor in they play in a weak conference that likely gets just 3 bids.

It wasn't intended we were supposed to go to NOLA and play two ranked teams in a tourney that didn't work out. Also, wanted UConn to come to Waco, but it didn't work out either. I think Big 12 will get 4 in. I think it's wrong to send the message to BU that your schedule isn't tough enough then punish OU for playing a really tough schedule and not being able to win all those games. I hope they make it in.

 

[IWearShoes]

That is true that SC has had their number and they played a tougher OOC in 2016 than Mississippi State’s did this year. But I still stand by my statement that 2017-18 Mississippi State has had a better year than 2015-16 SC.

Mississippi State’s OOC is not amazing, but it’s not terrible either. They played a projected 2 seed, a 7, another 7, a 10 and a 9. 5 tournament teams isn’t something to brag about, but it isn’t awful either. Baylor’s OOC has just a 3 and a 4....so 2 games, plus factor in they play in a weak conference that likely gets just 3 bids.

Appreciate the defense. Just wanted to add that it's actually 6 projected at large (or at large quality conf tourney winners) teams and 2 other conference champs still alive in their conference tourneys for a possibility of 8 tourney teams outside the SEC. Teams are Oregon, Green Bay, Arizona St, Okie St, Virginia, Syracuse, Little Rock and Maine.

 

[bballnut90]

It wasn't intended we were supposed to go to NOLA and play two ranked teams in a tourney that didn't work out. Also, wanted UConn to come to Waco, but it didn't work out either. I think Big 12 will get 4 in. I think it's wrong to send the message to BU that your schedule isn't tough enough then punish OU for playing a really tough schedule and not being able to win all those games. I hope they make it in.

Didn't know that information--I hope they play a better OOC schedule next year so we can watch those games. I've enjoyed watching Baylor this year...it would be fun to see them in more competitive settings early in the year.

And Oklahoma....I just don't think they've done enough to get a bid. Their RPI is heavily inflated due to their SOS. Just because they've played a tough schedule doesn't mean they're a tournament team. They're 2-11 against teams in Charlie's Bracket, and their only wins are over Belmont (projected 12 seed) and USF (projected 5 seed). 16-14 record overall with really just 1 quality win doesn't spell a tournament team to me.

 

[Txhoopsalot]

Brooke McCarty earned votes from people who watch Texas play a lot more than most people on this or any other board in large part because of the way Brooke leads her team. Without McCarty, Texas would not be a top 10 team in position to be a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tourney. And, even if McCarty's shooting numbers were down this year, teams continued to game plan to defend her. If McCarty's shooting had remained as hot this year as last, maybe she would have been higher than third team. McPhee was similarly important to Stanford finishing the season as well as they did.

 

[IWearShoes]

Brooke McCarty earned votes from people who watch Texas play a lot more than most people on this or any other board in large part because of the way Brooke leads her team. Without McCarty, Texas would not be a top 10 team in position to be a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tourney. And, even if McCarty's shooting numbers were down this year, teams continued to game plan to defend her. If McCarty's shooting had remained as hot this year as last, maybe she would have been higher than third team. McPhee was similarly important to Stanford finishing the season as well as they did.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I could say the same about Teaira McCowan in terms of were MSU would be without her, and her numbers dwarf McCarty and McPhee's (and she was the SEC Defensive POY).

 

[wallman]

This is not going to be popular but I disagree about the SEC being stronger just as I have said the PAC is not as strong. My 2cents. The SEC is not as strong at the top i.e. the top teams lost some really good players so the other teams have been able to hang around and schedules have also had a lot to do with the win/loss records. This is also true of the PAC where again we have a number of teams getting some wins but the top is not as strong as in previous years and the schedules also have had a lot to do with the win/loss records. The PAC has in fact some teams that are much weaker than in previous years like ASU and WA etc. It could be that the overall top 50 teams could be down beyond the obvious ones.

 

[Bronx23]

You don't think McGraw deserves it because she had more talent that Miss St. but then you say "Geno deserves it pretty much every year"? Ok...

Yes, all but a handful of coaches would trade their starting 5 for Mabrey-Ogunbowale-Young-Westbeld-Shepard in a heartbeat. On the other hand, that's a roster of 3 wings and two power forwards. There is no rim-protecting center (would have been Vaughn and Turner). There is no point guard (Thompson) and no one to defend opposing point guards (Thompson & Johnson).

What's impressive to me about the coaching job McGraw has done is how she has had to adjust on the fly. Mabrey had to go from moonlighting at point guard to being a starting point guard. Young had to pickup playing point guard in the middle of the season while wearing a protective facemask. ND had to switch midseason to playing almost exclusively zone.

And everything ND does has to be done while avoiding foul trouble like the plague as ND has basically 6 players (Danielle Patterson will be very good one day but for now she is still prone to far too many freshman mistakes). That pretty strictly limits how aggressive ND can be defensively.

I think Schaeffer is a fine choice for CoY, by the way. Maybe even a better choice than McGraw. I just think there's more to understanding the job Muffet has done this year than can be seen by simply looking at HS recruting rankings.

Very good points and analysis of two of the better coaches in wbb. Reading your comments made me lean to MM but yes Vic too did an excellent job.
Bronx23

 

[Bronx23]

You realize that McPhee missed 9 games with injury right? Of the 9 3 were losses and her first game back was Tennessee (a loss) then Stanford went on its run. I have NO quibbles with McPhee. McCarty is not deserving this year over Lexie Brown. Sophie had a good year but I don’t think it’s a travesty in being let off this team. I do think Gustafson played in a poor conference and is over rated (albeit very good, just not AA) and if anything maybe Jordin Canada could be dropped in favor of Cunningham but as a Senior, I am ok with it. The only travesty is Lexie vs. Brooke as I noted their stats above.

McCowan was great this year but I don’t agree she was one of the 15 best, I am hard pressed to place her in top 20, but it’s close. She disappears too much at key moments even for a 32-1 squad. She gotten taken to the woodshed by A’ja and would be beaten badly by Kalani Brown as well. Might even struggle again Texas with White/Holmes.

Agree completely on McCowan who I see as a big, strong young woman who while improving from my perspective just uses her body for put backs and rebounds. The few times she's faced with anything resembling a quality big, she's outplayed!
Bronx23