Updated New Hockey Arena Info

[Kolumbo]

Generally speaking, I’m not some kind of spending hawk and I usually support the school spending on projects like this (like the baseball field! It looks it’ll be beautiful).

However, I just can’t rap my head around spending this amount of money on something so small that’ll only play host to, what, half of the men’s hockey schedule in yet another I’ll fated attempt for UConn to “save” Hartford?

So frustrating. If they were dropping this dough to build a beautiful on campus hockey arena I’d be fine with it.

Don't forget women's ice hockey.

"It will also be available to be rented by recreation groups, hockey leagues, and other organizations. UConn expects to garner at least $400,000 annually in revenue from those rentals. "

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

How do you spend $23.5 million on a 2500 seat glorified practice facility???

Guessing not being a swimming pool might play some minuscule role

 

[zls44]

I love that they'll spend as much as some outside developer but cede building control.

Great plan. Really fabulous. Well thought out. Slaps.

 

[Pudge]

I happen to know something about Public Finance & Tax Exempt Bonds for Development

Don’t assume anything by what you just read. The Investment Banker will require a Single Purpose Entity (SPE) and not get wrapped in State or University appropriations crap. When we have done student housing on University land, the outside lead developer is Fee only. A Shell Corporation is set up - often controlled or a subset - by the University Foundation.

No University- today (unlike Celeron in 1985) - is gonna let a private company own something on their land. Mansfield? With all the water & sewer issues we know, the University has a sweet situation that they control infrastructure. They also took back approval authority a few years ago from the municipality.

What you think ... is just the odd things that happen with Public financings. Read “Power Broker” by Robert Caro on Robert Moses in NYC. Generally ... Tax Exempt rates are so low that the Proceeds are enormous. That also means lots of Fees get paid to the third party development firm & consulting & Attorney.

 

[Pudge]

I wrote my post before reading the article in the Hartford Courant by Kelly whomever

I’m certain I am right & she just missed the whole point.

Why 30 year lease? 30 years are tied to ideal Amortization & the likely result - commonly done - is the University or assigned owns the building for $1. Fully Amortized.

Single Purpose Entity. Check. No Trustee of Bonds wants to get involved with either the State or University having an upset event that results in the bond holders not getting their P&I payment. SPE are absolutely the case in most all project financings also - including commercial private. Too many games by shady developers.

Yes. Hire a FEE Developer. Lessor is the XYZ of UCONN Foundation. Don’t worry Fee Developers get paid a ton of money. Leaving guaranteed money for consultants & attorneys & all construction firms involved.

Prevailing wage? Of course. It’s on State property. I presume there are southern states that avoid this. But we are in the northeastern United States. NYS Assembly almost upset billions of dollars of NYCEDC deals with prevailing wage legislation. Amazon would have been chopped anyway if this occurs. But at risk ... lots of Life Science & Academic Institutional Projects citywide. Crazy. I don’t think the legislators understand.

Low low interest rates mean great Proceeds. The math is easy. So whatever she’s writing is certain to be significantly wrong if the rates remain low. They won’t have rob the proceeds of West Hartford or Nathan Hale or raise that much more donations. My guess is they just don’t want to get caught if they get unlucky. Rates are low.

So. Owned & controlled by a related party. We all good on this?

 

[Pudge]

Third post

Reading the University PR

I suspect he is wrong. Why would you have a Private Developer OWN the facility.

There’s a significant Basis Point penalty not to have a University Entity own this. Bond markets LOVE that the Institution is the owner. Not some third party. Remember - 50-75 bps on Bond Constant is significant amount of dollar proceeds you don’t fund.

It doesn’t make sense for anything but a related party to own. EVEN if it’s a Shell - let’s call it the Jim Calhoun Bruce Marshall UConn Hockey Foundation (a sub of UCONN Foundation) with ZERO assets, bond market will love that more than some schmuck private developer. Then. The thought is the UNIVERSITY will never renege on the bond P&I on their land. And there will be a Letter of Credit to cover any unforeseen liquidity issues in the market or stuff (think insurance or act of God).

I simply don’t believe the Courant or this PR guy talked to the Investment Banker.

 

[CL82]

Don't forget women's ice hockey.

"It will also be available to be rented by recreation groups, hockey leagues, and other organizations. UConn expects to garner at least $400,000 annually in revenue from those rentals. "

Lol, that will never happen.

 

[zls44]

What you think ... is just the odd things that happen with Public financings. Read “Power Broker” by Robert Caro on Robert Moses in NYC. Generally ... Tax Exempt rates are so low that the Proceeds are enormous. That also means lots of Fees get paid to the third party development firm & consulting & Attorney.

Literally been reading it for a couple of weeks- if you think that racist psychopath is someone whose ideas on anything, ANYTHING, are to be modeled after rather than banned from public life forever, you are completely mistaken on both public policy as well as the lessons of the book.

 

[zls44]

I wrote my post before reading the article in the Hartford Courant by Kelly whomever

I’m certain I am right & she just missed the whole point.

This is the statement of a sociopath.

 

[Pudge]

Literally been reading it for a couple of weeks- if you think that racist psychopath is someone whose ideas on anything, ANYTHING, are to be modeled after rather than banned from public life forever, you are completely mistaken on both public policy as well as the lessons of the book.

Why are you such a personal miscreant.

The ONE book that tells you how POWER is grabbed in America and how it is used extra-judicial or without being democratically elected ... it is the enormously well-researched and interesting Caro biography.

It is one of the most important biographies of an American as it lays bare Urban development - a personal interest.

I frankly don't care what your opinion of the book is after your quick off-hand comment and personal attack. F off

 

[Pudge]

This is the statement of a sociopath.

OK numbnuts ...

I developed a 1200 bed student housing complex on the UAlbany campus in 2001; then Rowan University 2007-2011; then UMass Lowell; then Winthrop University. I think I know more than you. I think the Hartford Courant writer missed the mark by a huge amount on the structure of the deal. And I can explain a 30 year bond deal on a University land parcel far better than most real estate professionals.

Call me a sociopath. What the heck do you know about this topic.

Public Finance Investment Banking is ... FULL of gimmicks and IB playing games & creating structures that are marketable to bond buyers and CYA for the University. And the lesson of Robert Moses is ... you can control a empire with proceeds of Public Finance from NYS authorities that merely collect your tolls.

 

[Pudge]

For the rest of you - other than this Z guy

It makes no sense for a University to let a third party developer OWN this property or sell land

What I’m trying to convey ... there are Public Finance Vehicles (Tax Exempt Bonds at tiny interest rates and 30 year fully amortizing) and they do gimmicks that may fool a Newspaper writer ... but are done commonly to protect bond holders & the Public Entity.

I’m certain I am right - because I do this for a living. The Bonds fully amortize in 30. The University - a related party - owns the Facility outright at that point (the Shell LLC made up goes away & the Fee Developer never has ownership). There’s no frigging way a third party developer owns a University building today; manage it - yes. But earlier we saw the University does maintenance; another key Term - it’s run like all the other athletic facilities. Management means (possibly) being the employer of staff & some tasks.

Development Fees are significant for the developer. Etc etc

 

[zls44]

For the rest of you - other than this Z guy

It makes no sense for a University to let a third party developer OWN this property or sell land

What I’m trying to convey ... there are Public Finance Vehicles (Tax Exempt Bonds at tiny interest rates and 30 year fully amortizing) and they do gimmicks that may fool a Newspaper writer ... but are done commonly to protect bond holders & the Public Entity.

I’m certain I am right - because I do this for a living. The Bonds fully amortize in 30. The University - a related party - owns the Facility outright at that point (the Shell LLC made up goes away & the Fee Developer never has ownership). There’s no frigging way a third party developer owns a University building today; manage it - yes. But earlier we saw the University does maintenance; another key Term - it’s run like all the other athletic facilities. Management means (possibly) being the employer of staff & some tasks.

Development Fees are significant for the developer. Etc etc

Try going more than 5 posts without mentioning how important you are. Try it.

Fishy does private development and is very good at it. You'd never know it, because he manages to not talk about how great he is all the time like you do.

I don't understand why UConn doesn't just bond the entire arena. Make a real, legitimate effort. Which this is not. In any way, shape or form. Its totally half-cocked and doesn't need you going all third eye to say how Actually, Its Good.

PS- 95% of Robert Moses' developments should be torn down and thrown in the dustbin of history. And every public benefit corporation should be rendered illegal. Every one of them.

 

[zls44]

It is one of the most important biographies of an American as it lays bare Urban development - a personal interest.

It is a brilliant work about an absolute scumbag. Try and comprehend two ideas at once. Try it.

 

[Pudge]

Ok. I agree. LBJ also - scumbag

But that doesn’t diminish one of the most amazing unknown stories - there’s now 2 by Caro - in the quintessential rise of Urban America from 1920 to 1970. Fundamentally. New York City would not be what it is today unless one man willed it that way. And he was not elected. Ever. He took quarters from tolls and built a power base. He perverted NYS Public Authority Law & Public Finance to go from bridges & parks to highways, public housing, stadiums etc etc. Every mayor seemed to fear him.

 

[Pudge]

Try going more than 5 posts without mentioning how important you are. Try it.

Fishy does private development and is very good at it. You'd never know it, because he manages to not talk about how great he is all the time like you do.

I don't understand why UConn doesn't just bond the entire arena. Make a real, legitimate effort. Which this is not. In any way, shape or form. Its totally half-cocked and doesn't need you going all third eye to say how Actually, Its Good.

PS- 95% of Robert Moses' developments should be torn down and thrown in the dustbin of history. And every public benefit corporation should be rendered illegal. Every one of them.

we have businesslawyer. Should I be developerproduceronuniversityland - because that’s 80% of me.

Sorry I pounced. But the idea that a University would let some developer OWN a facility on its Land ... is nuts. Having said that Nathan Hale just sold (Universities shouldn’t own hotels). And that Hartford Courant article was hugely flawed.

Why? Because Public Finance doesn’t want media to really understand. Fees are huge. Investment bankers get rich. And Universities - like in Robert Moses time - do things clever to get a better deal. One sentence: At rates less than 2.4%, a Private Developer - financed not on his Credit at all - completely constructs the Hockey Arena to the specs. Over-financed it actually. I don’t believe the taking sale proceeds from West Hartford & Nathan Hale. They hit this right & the proceeds are going to cover most of the budget; they just don’t want to beg for more later. Fees fees fees.

Public Finance is a raw largely unknown industry.

I know what Fishy does.

 

[Pudge]

Try going more than 5 posts without mentioning how important you are. Try it.

Fishy does private development and is very good at it. You'd never know it, because he manages to not talk about how great he is all the time like you do.

I don't understand why UConn doesn't just bond the entire arena. Make a real, legitimate effort. Which this is not. In any way, shape or form. Its totally half-cocked and doesn't need you going all third eye to say how Actually, Its Good.

PS- 95% of Robert Moses' developments should be torn down and thrown in the dustbin of history. And every public benefit corporation should be rendered illegal. Every one of them.

There’s a NYS Assembly Committee on Public Authorities I suggest you sit and watch.

Second. Moses built an incredible amount of parks. Most every bridge in the 5 boroughs. Tunnels. Westside Highway he conceived when he was 24. It’s hard to separate that from the Butthead who took homes from 5000 people to build the Major Deegan or something. Can’t square the arrogance.

 

[zls44]

It’s hard to separate that from the Butthead who took homes from 5000 people to build the Major Deegan or something. Can’t square the arrogance.

I think one probably led to the other. Triborough was a cash machine masquerading as a traffic machine.

 

[UCONNJACK]

I happen to know something about Public Finance & Tax Exempt Bonds for Development

Don’t assume anything by what you just read. The Investment Banker will require a Single Purpose Entity (SPE) and not get wrapped in State or University appropriations crap. When we have done student housing on University land, the outside lead developer is Fee only. A Shell Corporation is set up - often controlled or a subset - by the University Foundation.

No University- today (unlike Celeron in 1985) - is gonna let a private company own something on their land. Mansfield? With all the water & sewer issues we know, the University has a sweet situation that they control infrastructure. They also took back approval authority a few years ago from the municipality.

What you think ... is just the odd things that happen with Public financings. Read “Power Broker” by Robert Caro on Robert Moses in NYC. Generally ... Tax Exempt rates are so low that the Proceeds are enormous. That also means lots of Fees get paid to the third party development firm & consulting & Attorney.

UConn recently posted this RFEI for the private development of student housing on three university parcels. The developer also has the option of building on their land

https://updc.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1525/2019/06/Student-Housing-RFEI-Final-June-2019.pdf

 

[Pudge]

UConn recently posted this RFEI for the private development of student housing on three university parcels. The developer also has the option of building on their land

https://updc.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1525/2019/06/Student-Housing-RFEI-Final-June-2019.pdf

Ahhh. Interesting

It’s the crappy Grad stuff on South Eagleville

The truth is UCONN is an enormous campus. Surrounded by woods and woods

That RFP will be Won by a National firm. Student Housing has become a concentrated institutional industry.

That EdR developed Storrs Center took 8 years to Groundbreaking. Crazy

 

[Pudge]

I think one probably led to the other. Triborough was a cash machine masquerading as a traffic machine.

Quarters

Think about that. If he took in $100m in tolls, he was able to finance a significant multiple of other projects with low interest rates of Tax Exempt bonds. Kingdom. One after another

He gave - I think Duke Ellington - a RESIDENCY at Jones Beach & his own pavilion because he liked his music. From quarters.

 

[Fishy]

There’s a NYS Assembly Committee on Public Authorities I suggest you sit and watch.

Second. Moses built an incredible amount of parks. Most every bridge in the 5 boroughs. Tunnels. Westside Highway he conceived when he was 24. It’s hard to separate that from the Butthead who took homes from 5000 people to build the Major Deegan or something. Can’t square the arrogance.

The arrogance is really the thing.

You can go back in to the 1930's in the New York Times and read articles about how Yonkers and Bronxville were against a Taconic extension because it would cause flooding in the area of the Bronx River.

Robert Moses eventually built it anyway.

Sixty years later, I got a call at 1 am last night that for the umpteenth-time, the area around the Sprain/Bronx River was flooding. The work to build the Sprain basically moved the Bronx River and the Grassy Sprain Brook and never bothered to consider that they would seek to go back where they belonged if their level was raised by even two inches of rain.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

There’s a NYS Assembly Committee on Public Authorities I suggest you sit and watch.

Second. Moses built an incredible amount of parks. Most every bridge in the 5 boroughs. Tunnels. Westside Highway he conceived when he was 24. It’s hard to separate that from the Butthead who took homes from 5000 people to build the Major Deegan or something. Can’t square the arrogance.

Someone took the current Google maps of NYC and edietd the to show where the proposed cross-Midtown and Cross-Downtown highways woudl have gone.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Someone took the current Google maps of NYC and edietd the to show where the proposed cross-Midtown and Cross-Downtown highways woudl have gone.View attachment 44868

 

[Pudge]

The arrogance is really the thing.

You can go back in to the 1930's in the New York Times and read articles about how Yonkers and Bronxville were against a Taconic extension because it would cause flooding in the area of the Bronx River.

Robert Moses eventually built it anyway.

Sixty years later, I got a call at 1 am last night that for the umpteenth-time, the area around the Sprain/Bronx River was flooding. The work to build the Sprain basically moved the Bronx River and the Grassy Sprain Brook and never bothered to consider that they would seek to go back where they belonged if their level was raised by even two inches of rain.

He was like J. Edgar Hoover also. Many times a mayor or the Governor tried to fire him. He seemed to have secret files that was highly damaging to whomever that person was. He played it very rough.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Moses’ hometown: New Haven

 

[Pudge]

Moses’ hometown: New Haven

Nope

He went to Yale. A huge part of his life. But he grew up wealthy on Manhattan’s Upper Eastside. Grandparents owned a department store in New Haven; Grandma got snooty about living downscale & they sold it before he was born.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Nope

He went to Yale. A huge part of his life. But he grew up wealthy on Manhattan’s Upper Eastside. Grandparents owned a department store in New Haven; Grandma got snooty about living downscale & they sold it before he was born.

Thought he was born in the Elm City; lived in New Haven until about 9; turns out we’re both correct

 

[zls44]

His dream job was governor of CT. You look at the crappy roads here and wonder if he didn't get the job when nobody noticed.

 

[pepband99]

The arrogance is really the thing.

You can go back in to the 1930's in the New York Times and read articles about how Yonkers and Bronxville were against a Taconic extension because it would cause flooding in the area of the Bronx River.

Robert Moses eventually built it anyway.

Sixty years later, I got a call at 1 am last night that for the umpteenth-time, the area around the Sprain/Bronx River was flooding. The work to build the Sprain basically moved the Bronx River and the Grassy Sprain Brook and never bothered to consider that they would seek to go back where they belonged if their level was raised by even two inches of rain.

The book, and Caro, in general, are treasures. Anyone who hasn't read it are worse for it.

My favorite illustration is the routing of the Northern State, to get around the right people's land. Can you imagine commuting every day on this road, knowing that your drive is worse, because of corruption? It's amazing to comprehend.