Unpopular WBB Opinions That You Hold

[ghostmutt]

mutt, you have not been around for some time. Where were you? In High school?

Ha! My high school days coincided with the Rebecca Lobo era at UConn. I went back to college later in life. I read the women's and men's boards often but don't usually get riled up enough to post until conference play rolls around. My UConn fandom comes from growing up in CT. I go to school in Big Ten country.

No one responded to this bold assertion by triaddukefan: Tara Vanderveer will not win another title at Stanford.

Hmm...how soon do you think she'll retire? Four consecutive , the promise of more high seeds to come due to lack of competition within the conference, Chiney in Palo Alto for two more years, traditional powers looking vulnerable. Why do you think she has no chance to win #3?

 

[magic]

I think Doty, Bria, KML, Kelly and Kiah/Dolson. I bet Kiah takes Stef's spot. Maybe not, but that is my unpopular opinion.

I still remember watching DT shoot Huskies out of game with Irish in 2001. If Geno sits her down Irish don't win championship. Huskies were going to the line at will that game. And please don't tell me Geno knew DT was going to become what she is today at that point in time.

 

[sarals24]

I don't think Tara will win another championship. Last year I thought was her best chance to win it, especially against ND. The PAC 10 schedule really holds them back, I think. They don't challenge themselves in the later part of the season.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

FWIW I expect to see them up close on Saturday, when they (Stanford) visit U of A. 5th row, toward center court, but close enough to the visitor bench to get a good look-see. Tonight, I will see Cal up close, much less exciting prospect.

I "suspect" Tara will not win a final 4 because of the lack of challenge in the Pac12, but I also recognize both the "on any given day" and "things can change" realities.

 

[cardfan]

That's the spirit!

To MilfordHusky's point, Beard already had a more talented cast with Currie and Tillis and did not get to the final game, so I agree that she is out of the discussion. At the time, I recall that the argument against Powell being the NPOY was that her stats were "inflated" due to playing in a weak conference. It's hard not to be influenced by post-college success in judging Powell vs. DT and think that those arguing against Powell were right.

The problem of putting Maya on the '03 and '04 teams is that Maya does everything BT does better than BT - thereby making our second-best player of those years irrelevant. And Maya is not a primary ballhandler to help Maria with the PG duties. As good as she is, she doesn't complement the roster we had.

Lindsay could (can) score, lead, make others better, and inspire confidence. If she had 20+ PPG seasons at Minnesota, it's reasonable to think she could at least come close to DT's averages of 17.9 PPG and 16.2 PPG in '03 and '04, respectively. (Two things surprised me looking at their stats from those years: Dee had more assists in '03, and Lindsay shot a respectable 40 percent from three in '04...on 100 attempts. I think Geno's coaching would have improved that weakness in Lindsay's game earlier in her career.) Duke was the best team on paper in '04, and Lindsay (with a lesser cast than DT) beat them in the NCAAs. But Lindsay changes the complexion of the team because she and Maria in the backcourt together are too slow. My argument here hinges on the belief that a lineup of Whalen, Strother, Battle, Turner, and Moore--coached by Geno--could still beat the runner-up, Tennessee. I think's it's reasonable. It's not "Who has the most intangibles?" or "Who is the better player?" but "Could someone else do it?"

Powell has had a very successful pro career, better than her college yrs.

 

[blackbird]

I still remember watching DT shoot Huskies out of game with Irish in 2001. If Geno sits her down Irish don't win championship. Huskies were going to the line at will that game. And please don't tell me Geno knew DT was going to become what she is today at that point in time.

Geno tells it a little differently. According to him, DT was the only Uconn player who wasn't afraid to shoot.

 

[meyers7]

So maybe I carried my metaphor a little too far, thinking there are no gang . . . uh, dunks.

Besides, ghostmutt has me all confused. Now I'm considering the image of posting up. Offensive player backing in, defensive player bumping up behind, and . . . Ooo! Ahh!

But the women do that too, and they can't actually . . .

Well, just leave me alone for a while. I'll get this sorted out.

So I prefer not to watch pornography.

You sure seem to know a lot about it. (with all these metaphors and all).

 

[meyers7]

Well if Breanna is as good as advertised, them.... Or is this just sentimentality! I say you play to win with your best players!

Playing with and starting are two separate things.

 

[Kibitzer]

OOOH! You gonna get some NASTY replies on this unmanly essay! You prolly don't like NASCAR or extreme combat, either, not to mention roller-ball or the Republican primary. You prefer the "please pass me another crumpet, if you would be so kind" type of sports, where the players ignore the guiding principles of free-enterprise by actually allowing their teammates to participate and even excel at the expense of diminishing their own statistics; where they even observe the antiquated, sissy, if not Marxist rules of "fair play and good sportsmanship" (which all knowledgable and thinking people know that St. Vincent of Lombardi totally discredited these many years ago). In short, sir, you seem to be a week-kneed, -footing, limp-wristed, weak-spirited, low-testosterone, molly-coddling, lace-hanky, bloodless, left-leaning milquetoast, totally lacking in manly attitudes. The fact is, sir, you seem to have forgotten that "winning is not everything, it is the only thing". How would our noble cave-man ancestors have survived, sir, had they not been willing and able to kick their fellow-scavengers away from the mammoth carcass? I ask you. You would prolly be best advised to stick to bean-bag, and make sure that the beans are cooked soft!

Permit a couple comments, distantly related to the OP and a bit of a follow-up to the masterpiece quoted above .

First, people often say they enjoy wcbb because the players "play the game the way basketball is meant to be played. Ha-Rumph!"

Seems to me that the way this game is meant to be played is with peach baskets nailed to walls at each end of the gym with a guy on a ladder by each to retrieve balls tossed in. (I like the current version better than Dr. Naismith's creation.)

Second, a couple of quotes from athletes I admire:

• Bill Russell: "Basketball is a contact sport. Football is a collision sport."
• Jack Lambert: "Football is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, don't play."

Back to you, Zorro.

 

[JS]

In short, sir, you seem to be a week-kneed, -footing, limp-wristed, weak-spirited, low-testosterone, molly-coddling, lace-hanky, bloodless, left-leaning milquetoast, totally lacking in manly attitudes.

I deny the weak-kneed part.

 

[meyers7]

I deny the weak-kneed part.

I've got the weak knees. Well the right one anyway.

 

[Samanthabrown3]

.
WCBB would sufffer irreparable damage if HuskyBill was 6'2"
There is nothing remotely reasonable about the vocalizations of MilfordHusky.
Kim Mulkey has never dived into a Salvation Army dropoff dumpster.
The only reason Dick Vitale doesn't do WCBB games is because of death threats.

Discuss.
.

You sound like an erstwhile teacher who has a part-time job creating essay questions for standardized tests.

 

[Samanthabrown3]

• Of the super sophs, both Hartley and Gray will be considered "better" PGs than Sims at the end of four years, and one of them will be drafted before Sims.

Nah.

End of my end of the discussion.

 

[Icebear]

Well if Breanna is as good as advertised, them.... Or is this just sentimentality! I say you play to win with your best players!

Magic, you clearly do not understand Geno and how he treats his players and has built credibility with them over the last 25+ years. Loyalty, trustworthiness and faithfulness are high on his list of integrity. Just like KML starting the season coming off the bench and learning by watching experienced players so will Breanna. She will get plenty of minutes but will not automatically jump into the starting line up following a path of numerous AAs before her. It is not sentimentality it is about building character.

 

[sarals24]

Magic, you clearly do not understand Geno and how he treats his players and has built credibility with them over the last 25+ years. Loyalty, trustworthiness and faithfulness are high on his list of integrity. Just like KML starting the season coming off the bench and learning by watching experienced players so will Breanna. She will get plenty of minutes but will not automatically jump into the starting line up following a path of numerous AAs before her. It is not sentimentality it is about building character.

Also, he loves having the team get better with bench players. It's a great strategy. The starting five will obviously be better than just about any other team, and with the players he's bringing off the bench, I would argue that they get better with substitutions. I can't think of a single other team that will be able to say that.

 

[magic]

Magic, you clearly do not understand Geno and how he treats his players and has built credibility with them over the last 25+ years. Loyalty, trustworthiness and faithfulness are high on his list of integrity. Just like KML starting the season coming off the bench and learning by watching experienced players so will Breanna. She will get plenty of minutes but will not automatically jump into the starting line up following a path of numerous AAs before her. It is not sentimentality it is about building character.

Of course I understand how Geno coaches. I've been watching and going to games for a long time. It's hard to argue with his success. I guess I just don't look at it as if it were the boy scouts of america. All I'm saying is the best players should play. If you don't think players know who is better, then you haven't played any sports. There is nothing wrong with lineups evolving as seasons evolve. I do not believe KML has earned the right to start. She has been very inconsistent. "If "Breanna is as talented as we've been told, what does the team gain by her, or any other great player sitting on the bench? and I'm sorry, but there is a lot of sentimentality on the board whether anyone admits it or not. This is all just fiture speculation anyway.

 

[Icebear]

What the team gains is what I suggested; a sense of trust, integrity, and credibility that as they develop into leadership roles the things they bring to the table will be respected and valued. It is not sentimentalism, it is about character and team before self.

 

[Brad Palmer]

Women's college BB better than men's?

Try going to a Yale-Harvard men's game vs. the same opponents in a women's game.

Or Villanova at Pitt in men's vs. women's.

Or Ohio State at Purdue. You get the idea.

Many people may like the team-oriented style and lack of selfish attitudes in the women's game better, but because of the small crowds and lack of parity, I can't see how you'd enjoy being at (or watching on TV) any of the women's games above as opposed to their male counterparts.

Maybe if you compare a UConn-ND women's game to say, a UMBC-Stony Brook men's game then I would definitely agree that UConn-ND would be better live or on TV.

 

[rocky rococo]

Of course I understand how Geno coaches. I've been watching and going to games for a long time. It's hard to argue with his success. I guess I just don't look at it as if it were the boy scouts of america. All I'm saying is the best players should play. If you don't think players know who is better, then you haven't played any sports. There is nothing wrong with lineups evolving as seasons evolve. I do not believe KML has earned the right to start. She has been very inconsistent. "If "Breanna is as talented as we've been told, what does the team gain by her, or any other great player sitting on the bench? and I'm sorry, but there is a lot of sentimentality on the board whether anyone admits it or not. This is all just fiture speculation anyway.

It's not quite all that simple. One player may be overall more talented than another player, but the less talented player may be better fit for certain circumstances. This applies even to starting. I remember in 2003 and 2004, that when she was available and not held down by her plantar fasciitis, Geno would start Morgan Valley over Ashley Battle. One would be unlikely to say Morgan was more talented than AB. However, Morgan's presence on the floor helped the team get stabilized early, find its flow, its rhythm. Once the team was in rhythm, Geno would pull Morgan and up the energy level by putting in AB. Morgan wasn't a better player than AB, but for that particular lineup, she made a better starter.

 

[sarals24]

I think this applies to this year's team as well. I don't think you can argue that CD at this point in her career is more talented than KML, but it makes sense for her to start because she calms the team down, gets the offense going, etc. KML can watch the flow of the game for a few minutes before coming in and bringing energy.

 

[Bestiarius]

In today's game, where there are often bench players who are as skilled in many areas as the "starters", starting is a status symbol, a reward or a bestowed honor, or perhaps just tradition. Not starting is often a punishment for someone who normally starts.

Until players start playing every minute of a game, there is little benefit to the team in starting. As mentioned above, there are strategic benefits for starting certain individuals, but to start the same lineup every game can't be right. Let's assume a starter has a bad cold. Usually that player will start anyway and quickly replaced. I believe coaches start the same lineups because that is what is expected of them, and it isn't worth the fan speculation starting someone else creates.

 

[MarieM]

If EDD was at uconn maya wouldn't be who she is today ?! If EDD was at uconn the streak would have still be going !?

 

[UcMiami]

I believe coaches start the same lineups because that is what is expected of them, and it isn't worth the fan speculation starting someone else creates.

I think it is more because the team likes continuity - the more regularized the starting line-up and the substitution patterns can be made, the more comfirtable and cohesive the team becomes. Things change over the year as players develop, and in a few instances because of specific opponents, but the less a coach needs to change the patterns, the better the team usually plays. Sort of like a jump shot - the less variation in a players mechanics time after time, the more accurate the shot becomes.

 

[MarieM]

if candace parker would've stayed for her 5th year it would have been Uconn and Tennessee for the title.. Uconn winning it IMO

 

[triaddukefan]

18 months later... and some very interesting opinions in retrospect

 

[reno tony]

I've been reading these posts and never checked any dates. I felt like I went through some time warp. Now that I am up to speed. Let's have some fun.
= Kelly Faris will get cut by the Sun and come back to UCONN as a coach.
= The Pope will order N. D. join the Big East.

 

[bschwartz]

I'll have a go...(and a prediction does not equal a desire)

WNBA out of business before Geno's current contract runs out
Combination of Title 9 and EA Lawsuit fundamentally overhaul NCAA resulting in substantial Div 1 WBB contraction (meaning many Div 1 teams move to Div 2 or 3)
Next Husky Head Coach: DT3
Congresswoman Maya Moore
This is Tina Charles' last season as a member of the Sun
Brittany Griner is to Greg Oden as EDD is to Kevin Durant (sad)

 

[Geno-ista]

Kiah will start ahead of Stef next year and be part of the most dominent and atheletic front line since Cash, Williams, Jones.

You really must be dreaming. Unless she has taken her lack of an offensive game to a level she has never shown she's had the capability to go to. She's athletic and can defend- but that assertion is a "wow"! And I like Kiah and hope she can compete enough to start!

 

[Geno-ista]

Stealing thread ideas (and titles) from other boards is lame. However, my history paper on whether or not the populist political rhetoric of the 1930's actually reflected itself in the policies of the New Deal is going no-where, and I can't stare at a blank screen anymore. I procrastinated last night by reading the RealGM NBA forum, and this is a good topic to fill the hours between now and Saturday.

This thread is not to discuss the unpopularity of women's basketball. Its purpose is to list the controversial beliefs you hold about WCBB and the WNBA that run counter to the "received wisdom" of Internet wags. Mine are the following:

• 
  [ ]The popularity of women's basketball will not grow when Pat and Geno retire. Increased parity and the rise of new powers may help attendance in pockets of the country. But the absence of dynamic personalities that transcend the sport will led to falling/stagnant TV ratings and declining interest among casual sports fans.
  [ ]Of the super sophs, both Hartley and Gray will be considered "better" PGs than Sims at the end of four years, and one of them will be drafted before Sims.
  [ ]Brian Agler is wrong: Sue Bird is seriously considering going to Phoenix as a FA and making a run at a title.
  [ ]DT was not the only player in WCBB in 2003 and 2004 who could have won national titles with the supporting cast at UConn.

Discuss. Argue. Scoff. Have at it.

DT is the only player that could have carried that supporting cast to 2 National Championships those years. Nobody else had the talent, ability to handle the ball, score & had the mental toughness and cockiness/confidence to pull that off. I don' think you can win a NC again with one star only!!!
And IMO Odyssey Sims is the best point guard in basketball- and I think maybe better than Diggins too. Gray is a natural great P Gd. Bria is not a natural Pt Guard, but I think she will be a great pro. Odyssey is a force on both ends of the floor.

 

[Geno-ista]

That's not even in question. It's a fact.

Second that!