Unpopular WBB Opinions That You Hold

[ghostmutt]

Stealing thread ideas (and titles) from other boards is lame. However, my history paper on whether or not the populist political rhetoric of the 1930's actually reflected itself in the policies of the New Deal is going no-where, and I can't stare at a blank screen anymore. I procrastinated last night by reading the RealGM NBA forum, and this is a good topic to fill the hours between now and Saturday.

This thread is not to discuss the unpopularity of women's basketball. Its purpose is to list the controversial beliefs you hold about WCBB and the WNBA that run counter to the "received wisdom" of Internet wags. Mine are the following:

• The popularity of women's basketball will not grow when Pat and Geno retire. Increased parity and the rise of new powers may help attendance in pockets of the country. But the absence of dynamic personalities that transcend the sport will led to falling/stagnant TV ratings and declining interest among casual sports fans.
• Of the super sophs, both Hartley and Gray will be considered "better" PGs than Sims at the end of four years, and one of them will be drafted before Sims.
• Brian Agler is wrong: Sue Bird is seriously considering going to Phoenix as a FA and making a run at a title.
• DT was not the only player in WCBB in 2003 and 2004 who could have won national titles with the supporting cast at UConn.

Discuss. Argue. Scoff. Have at it.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'll take the 4th one:

• DT was not the only player in WCBB in 2003 and 2004 who could have won national titles with the supporting cast at UConn.

The margins of victory in the Final Four games those years were generally small. Not even Alana Beard, probably the 2nd best player, could have done this. You needed someone who could score, lead, and make others better and had supreme confidence. Only Dee was at that level.

I'm scoffing.

 

[ghostmutt]

Lindsay Whalen. Caveat...with two years of Geno's coaching.

No controversial opinions of your own?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'll argue that Pat and Geno as personalities don't transcend the sport and grow it - on a broad base - much at all. Pat and Geno are adored in their respective states and fan-bases. Liked or disliked amongst other women's fan-bases. Among the non-women fans, well, they were prominent enough to be recognizable. I know who Anson Dorance is . . . does this popularize his sport? Would I bother to listen to "5 good minutes" on PTI with him? The answer is no, even though my wife and I in general are huge women's sports fans. Its just that our sports (BB, Softball, Volleyball and Lacrosse) are not his sport. Likewise, I suspect most non-WBB fans would fast-forward through Geno on PTI.

UConns streak; Pat's illness; Kay Yow's death; these transcend the sport and bring some attention to it.

Geno and Pat's accomplishments, incidently (1000 wins, NC's, winning streaks) I acknowledge as more important than them as personalities. It is just too easy to ignore personalities.

 

[blackbird]

Lindsay Whalen. Caveat...with two years of Geno's coaching.

No controversial opinions of your own?

Nope, Lindsay's not good enough.

Maya Moore wouldn't have even been good enough.

here's one, although Geno is a better coach, head to head, Muffet McGraw usually outcoaches him.

Bria Hartley is the most talented guard in the country.

 

[HuskyNan]

How about Nicole Powell, the third gem in the Trifecta of superstars in the Class of 2004?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Stealing thread ideas (and titles) from other boards is lame. However, my history paper on whether or not the populist political rhetoric of the 1930's actually reflected itself in the policies of the New Deal is going no-where, and I can't stare at a blank screen anymore. I procrastinated last night by reading the RealGM NBA forum, and this is a good topic to fill the hours between now and Saturday.

This thread is not to discuss the unpopularity of women's basketball. Its purpose is to list the controversial beliefs you hold about WCBB and the WNBA that run counter to the "received wisdom" of Internet wags.

Interesting thread idea, Ghostmutt. I will have it.

- Gail Goestenkors was a great coach at Duke. Duke was tight in games in 2003 and 2004, but between 2005 and 2007, with all that she loss to graduation, she actually demonstrated how great of a coach she was at Duke.
- If Muffet McGraw could have recruited better on a more consistent basis, she would be considered an equal to Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt, in the eyes of the media.
- If the players are as versatile as the coaches, announcers, etc. would like us to believe, the quality of games would be much better.

 

[Bestiarius]

Women BBers don't dunk for fear perhaps that the might appear "manly". Either that or dunking just isn't that big a deal except for stroking one's ego something not high on the ladies list.

Men must dunk. Spud webb at 5'7" could dunk and even Mugsy Bogues at 5'3" "said" he could dunk and the minions swore it was so.

 

[Wonkster]

.
WCBB would sufffer irreparable damage if HuskyBill was 6'2"
There is nothing remotely reasonable about the vocalizations of MilfordHusky.
Kim Mulkey has never dived into a Salvation Army dropoff dumpster.
The only reason Dick Vitale doesn't do WCBB games is because of death threats.

Discuss.
.

 

[ghostmutt]

here's one, although Geno is a better coach, head to head, Muffet McGraw usually outcoaches him.

That's the spirit!

To MilfordHusky's point, Beard already had a more talented cast with Currie and Tillis and did not get to the final game, so I agree that she is out of the discussion. At the time, I recall that the argument against Powell being the NPOY was that her stats were "inflated" due to playing in a weak conference. It's hard not to be influenced by post-college success in judging Powell vs. DT and think that those arguing against Powell were right.

The problem of putting Maya on the '03 and '04 teams is that Maya does everything BT does better than BT - thereby making our second-best player of those years irrelevant. And Maya is not a primary ballhandler to help Maria with the PG duties. As good as she is, she doesn't complement the roster we had.

Lindsay could (can) score, lead, make others better, and inspire confidence. If she had 20+ PPG seasons at Minnesota, it's reasonable to think she could at least come close to DT's averages of 17.9 PPG and 16.2 PPG in '03 and '04, respectively. (Two things surprised me looking at their stats from those years: Dee had more assists in '03, and Lindsay shot a respectable 40 percent from three in '04...on 100 attempts. I think Geno's coaching would have improved that weakness in Lindsay's game earlier in her career.) Duke was the best team on paper in '04, and Lindsay (with a lesser cast than DT) beat them in the NCAAs. But Lindsay changes the complexion of the team because she and Maria in the backcourt together are too slow. My argument here hinges on the belief that a lineup of Whalen, Strother, Battle, Turner, and Moore--coached by Geno--could still beat the runner-up, Tennessee. I think's it's reasonable. It's not "Who has the most intangibles?" or "Who is the better player?" but "Could someone else do it?"

 

[MilfordHusky]

.
WCBB would sufffer irreparable damage if HuskyBill was 6'2"
There is nothing remotely reasonable about the vocalizations of MilfordHusky.
Kim Mulkey has never dived into a Salvation Army dropoff dumpster.
The only reason Dick Vitale doesn't do WCBB games is because of death threats.

Discuss.
.

I am finding myself in with Husky Bill, Kim Mulkey, and Dick Vitale. Oooh bay-bee!

 

[pinotbear]

pre-emptive death threats, at that.
If HuskyBill were 6'2', then Webster's would have to re-define "gnome". The Husky Gnomes that CPTV offers would weigh about 37 pounds.
Kim Mulkey may well have dumpster-dove, but, in a very, very nice part of town. Horses, and cowboys, were likely in residence.

 

[Wonkster]

... Men must dunk.

How is this an unpopular opinion? It's a fact of life that I became convinced of some years ago when I watched a 6'10" dork on the UConn men's team screw up a windmill dunk in a tight game instead of making a simple finger roll layup shot. The ball caromed off the rim, bounced 30' downcourt where it was scooped up by a UMass player, who then made his layup at the other end as the buzzer went off. UConn thereby lost the game.

Jim Calhoun wanted to lynch his player, but with laws against that, instead settled for aging 3 years that night.
.

 

[rington]

How is this an unpopular opinion? It's a fact of life that I became convinced of some years ago when I watched some 6'10" dork on the UConn men's team screw up a windmill dunk instead of making a simple finger roll layup shot. The ball caromed off the rim, bounced 30' downcourt where it was scooped up by a UMass player who then made his layup at the other end as the buzzer went off and UConn thereby lost the game.

Jim Calhoun wanted to lynch his player, but with laws against that, instead settled for aging 3 years that night.
.

I never miss a Uconn men's game. However, the men's college game (in my opinion) is 3 things: dunking, tatoos, and the NBA.

 

[tomcat]

Women BBers don't dunk for fear perhaps that the might appear "manly". Either that or dunking just isn't that big a deal except for stroking one's ego something not high on the ladies list.

Men must dunk. Spud webb at 5'7" could dunk and even Mugsy Bogues at 5'3" "said" he could dunk and the minions swore it was so.

Actually, I don't think that's the reason at all. It's more likely one of two things. Either they are afraid that if they miss, they become part of a highlight reel (which is almost a suire thing), or they are worried about what the dunk would mean to their opponent. Are they rubbing it in? Alternatively, will their dunk cause the opponent to become motivated? Should it only be done during garbage time, or shoudl it be done to demoralize an opponent (and again, if so, what happens if I miss?)

 

[tomcat]

Here's another controversial one, that I hold"
Dunking should be outlawed, because it fundamentally changes the nature of the women's game, which relies on a "below the rim, above the shoulders" mentality for all of what is good about it.

 

[Wonkster]

Here's another controversial one, that I hold:
Dunking should be outlawed, because it fundamentally changes the nature of the women's game, which relies on a "below the rim, above the shoulders" mentality for all of what is good about it.

.
That's not an unpopular opinion with me!
.

 

[ghostmutt]

Interesting thread idea, Ghostmutt. I will have it.

Wish I could take credit, but I "borrowed" the idea from another board when I was trying to put off writing about FDR's second inaugural address. Good discussion fodder, though.

- Gail Goestenkors was a great coach at Duke. Duke was tight in games in 2003 and 2004, but between 2005 and 2007, with all that she loss to graduation, she actually demonstrated how great of a coach she was at Duke.

Mmm...maybe. Based on recruiting and results against the big two, she appeared to be the Next Great Coach after Geno and Pat. I would be more persuaded of this argument had UNC not won the ACC Tourney during all the years in your sample because the knock on GG was that she was a bad coach in high pressure moments, like elimination games. The loss to Rutgers in 2007 sealed her reputation, IMO, because of the way they lost--at the line shooting free throws with no time left for Rutgers to even the score, and as the overall #1 seed. It was defeat snatched from victory. And the Blue Devil team was more or less healthy and intact, having beaten RU by 30 early on. (Maybe you can refresh my memory on that one.) Even GG must have felt "cursed" after that.

If Muffet McGraw could have recruited better on a more consistent basis, she would be considered an equal to Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt, in the eyes of the media.

This I agree with. It is a wonder to me that it took Muffett so long to get ND back to elite status when her 2001 NC team had a Hoosier as its star and defeated its in-state rival in the title game. She should have been raking in the Indiana kids. As it is, the current success is largely due to a once-in-a-generation local kid deciding to stay home. Makes me wonder how good a recruiter Muffett is. She definitely is a good X's-and-O's coach. And yes, the media would promote her because of the school she coaches at.

 

[psconn]

Kiah will start ahead of Stef next year and be part of the most dominent and atheletic front line since Cash, Williams, Jones.

 

[rwdinsalem]

Here's one held by only a few diehards like me: Women's college basketball is better than men's college basketball.

 

[ghostmutt]

• UConn wouldn't have the gaudy record it has in the BET if the conference still rotated hosting duties between schools
• Baylor will lose in the NCAAs, but it won't be to UConn or ND
• At least three different WNBA championship teams could have beaten 2010 Seattle

On edit: Wiggins shouldn't have won the Wade Trophy over Parker (unpopular on this board).

 

[meyers7]

Here's one held by only a few diehards like me: Women's college basketball is better than men's college basketball.

How so? Define "better"

 

[triaddukefan]

1) Duke WCBB fans have suffered more heartbreak than any other WCBB program in history. Therefore Duke deserves to win the National Title more then any program in the country.

2) Certain schools who missed out on golden opportunities for a title will never get another shot to win that title. UVA, Rutgers, WKU, Missouri State (SW Mo State), and LSU come to mind.

3) Texas Tech, TAMU, UNC, Maryland, Purdue, and Texas are all one hit wonders who will never win another title... at least not within the next 20 years.

4) Tara Vanderveer (sp) will never win another title at Stanford.

5) La Tech and ODU are past champions that will never get close to another Final 4 in the next 73 years.

 

[tomcat]

Here's one held by only a few diehards like me: Women's college basketball is better than men's college basketball.

That's not even in question. It's a fact.

 

[Moose]

My controversial opinion is that Diana Taurasi is the best player to have ever played at Uconn. I think Maya is second, but there's a gap. My other controversial opinion is that Heather Buck should be part of the regular rotation. Have you seen her in warm-ups? She looks like she's got it going on.