Unbeatens

[willtalk]

These rankings only prove that people will use the ones that fit their own agenda's. Everyone that understands rankings will generally give more credibility to Massey than they do to RPI. But they also understand that Massy is highly flawed early in the season because it uses the last ten games played. Well no teams have played ten games yet, so games from last season are factored into the score. For example that means that the last four games Uconn played last season are factored into their Massey score. They were all NCAA tournament teams, the last two being final eight and final four. The same holds true for other teams depending on how many games they have played this season.

Could anyone actually believe that UConn has played the fifth toughest schedule in the country this season? The farther a team went in the NCAA's, multiplied by the number of games used from last season would inflate their strength of schedule for this season. A team has to have played at least ten games for the Massey numbers to have any validity.

Based on this Cbus13, why would you use Massey as the standard at this time for a SOS metric?

 

[CBus13]

@willtalk I had no real critical thinking when it came between choosing Massey over RPI other than I'm used to looking at Massey. In my ignorance, I didn't realize it used the last 10 games. So that was my error.


I've updated the table below to have the current Massey SOS and the RPI SoS (from RealTimeRPI) for a comparison. Also, removed Providence and did alphabetical order...Not sure if it's an order I like yet.

School	Wins​	Massey (Previous)​	RPI​
Arizona	8​	208 (199)​	278​
Binghamton	8​	341(342)​	342​
Colorado	7​	200 (191)​	186​
Connecticut	6​	4 (5)​	2​
Florida State	7​	106 (108)​	147​
Kansas	7​	298 (300)​	215​
Kentucky	8​	127 (134)​	146​
Louisville	8​	7 (6)​	13*​
Loyola-Chicago	7​	300 (308)​	247​
North Carolina	6​	199 (213)​	283​
NC State	8​	125 (124)​	235*​
Oregon State	7​	32 (33)​	3​
Stanford	8​	8 (9)​	57​
Tennessee	7​	195 (198)​	345​
TCU	6​	160 (164)​	136​
Texas Tech	6​	321 (332)​	321​
UCLA	7​	108 (106)​	164​

*RPI had these teams with one loss. Not sure why. Also, listed Mississippi State and Indiana as undefeated.

 

[trisailin]

Could somebody point me to where it definitively says Massey uses the last 10 games? We know they start the season "priming the pump" with some data from last year - but I'm not aware of anything that specifically says "last 10 games".

 

[Plebe]

Could somebody point me to where it definitively says Massey uses the last 10 games? We know they start the season "priming the pump" with some data from last year - but I'm not aware of anything that specifically says "last 10 games".

I'm curious about this as well. The only thing official I've read leaves it relatively vague:

Preseason ratings are typically derived as a weighted average of previous years' final ratings. As the current season progresses, their effect gets damped out completely. The only purpose preseason ratings serve is to provide a reasonable starting point for the computer. Mathematically, they guarantee a unique solution to the equations early in the season when not enough data is available yet.

Massey Ratings Description

www.masseyratings.com

 

[trisailin]

Down goes Tennessee!!! Now down to 15 unbeatens

 

[trisailin]

Updated through games Dec 8. Now 15 teams

Team​	Wins​
Florida St​	9​
NC St​	9​
Kentucky​	9​
Arizona​	9​
Binghamton​	9​
Connecticut​	8​
Stanford​	8​
Oregon St​	8​
UCLA​	8​
North Carolina​	8​
Colorado​	8​
Kansas​	8​
Loyola-Chicago​	8​
TCU​	7​
Texas Tech​	6​

 

[TheFarmFan]

Updated through games Dec 8. Now 15 teams

Team​	Wins​
Florida St​	9​
NC St​	9​
Kentucky​	9​
Arizona​	9​
Binghamton​	9​
Connecticut​	8​
Stanford​	8​
Oregon St​	8​
UCLA​	8​
North Carolina​	8​
Colorado​	8​
Kansas​	8​
Loyola-Chicago​	8​
TCU​	7​
Texas Tech​	6​

So, among the unbeatens:
1 AAC
3 ACC
1 America East (yeah I had to look up Binghamton)
3 Big 12
1 MVC
5 PAC-12
1 SEC

Interesting to see the Big 12 have 3 unbeatens, since they aren't exactly projected to be a powerhouse conference this season. I assume those teams are in a sugar coma from all the cupcakes?

 

[Dokey]

It's fun to see the teams that some of these undefeated teams have beaten.

Texas Tech (4-0) has beaten:

• Sam Houston State (1-3)
• Florida A&M (0-4)
• Northwestern State (0-3)
• Purdue Fort Wayne (1-5)

If Texas Tech can beat Ole Miss in the Big 12/SEC Challenge tomorrow, they'll likely go unbeaten until Big 12 play, as their remaining OOC schedule is:

• Houston Baptist (1-4)
• Prairie View A&M (0-5)
• Arkansas Pine Bluff (0-5)
• Louisiana Monroe (1-5)
• Texas San Antonio (1-4)

These 9 OOC opponents have a combined record vs. D-I teams of 5-38. Yikes.

The other team I follow, Colorado, is 8-0. That will change once PAC-12 play begins.

 

[DefenseBB]

So, among the unbeatens:
1 AAC
3 ACC
1 America East (yeah I had to look up Binghamton)
3 Big 12
1 MVC
5 PAC-12
1 SEC

Interesting to see the Big 12 have 3 unbeatens, since they aren't exactly projected to be a powerhouse conference this season. I assume those teams are in a sugar coma from all the cupcakes?

Because you asked:
TCU at 7-0 has a SoS #161
Kansas at 8-0 has SoS #278
Texas Tech at 6-0 has SoS #326
Keep in mind there are 351 teams rated. Kansas coach is on the hot seat so not surprising this schedule is terrible (padding the stats) And Texas Tech is still recovering from their horrible coaching choices but still at #326 ??? These are not good teams by any stretch.

 

[trisailin]

I'm really concerned tonight because unbeaten Kentucky is laying it all on the line playing Winthrop (Massey rated #340!!). I'm not even sure that qualifies as a cupcake.

TCU plays Texas A&M so reasonable possibly TCU falls.

 

[mbr33ct]

Results from top 25 teams in action on 12-11-2019

 

[Geew1992]

Results from top 25 teams in action on 12-11-2019

View attachment 49081

Reading the Tennessee board, they think LV is "back" and ready to beat Stanford.

 

[eebmg]

Reading the Tennessee board, they think LV is "back" and ready to beat Stanford.

You mean Stamford. No?

 

[oldude]

You mean Stamford. No?

Maybe he actually was referring to that basketball powerhouse located in Birmingham, AL by the name of Samford University.

 

[BostonBay]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

 

[Plebe]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

 

[Argonaut]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

 

[trisailin]

Last night, Texas A&M did indeed remove TCU from the unbeaten list. Leaves 14 unbeatens.

Tonight, one unbeaten plays: Colorado (8-0) plays Denver.

 

[LoTrader]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

Not taking the bait.

 

[WestCoast]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

That was a bit out of the blue and random offering by BostonBay. There are numerous other unbeaten teams among the final 14 D1 unbeatens that are more surprising than the Beavs to still be unbeaten in mid-December.

I looked through a number of other BostonBay's previous posts to see if I could identify any other unlikely pronouncements or ones that seemed intent to bait west coast fans. I couldn't find any other posts that seemed to rival his OSU prediction.

I think that Oregon State was ranked between #6 and #9 in virtually every preseason poll. With Oregon State at #4 in most current polls and #1 in the RPI, that may seem too high for Oregon State to BostonBay now. However, I think that most basketball analysts will gladly debate and wager with BostonBay as to whether Oregon State will be ranked at all at the end of this season.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Not taking the bait.

Come on! Please, please...

 

[oldude]

Not taking the bait.

LT, you’ve really let us down.....

 

[nwhoopfan]

How good is Oregon State really? Not on many people's radar before the season. They wont be ranked by end of year, imo.

Okay, I'll do it. OSU has won 26 or more games the last 5 seasons, has finished no lower than 3rd in the Pac 12 the last 6 seasons and has gone to at least the Sweet 16 the last 4 seasons. They have been ranked continuously for a number of years. They have a very solid group of veteran guards and 2 promising Fr. posts. The chances of them not finishing the season ranked is virtually nil. And as pointed out previously they were ranked in the Top 10 in every preseason poll, so they clearly WERE on many people's radar.

So can we ask what rock you've been hiding under to be unaware of OSU?

 

[oldude]

Okay, I'll do it. OSU has won 26 or more games the last 5 seasons, has finished no lower than 3rd in the Pac 12 the last 6 seasons and has gone to at least the Sweet 16 the last 4 seasons. They have been ranked continuously for a number of years. They have a very solid group of veteran guards and 2 promising Fr. posts. The chances of them not finishing the season ranked is virtually nil. And as pointed out previously they were ranked in the Top 10 in every preseason poll, so they clearly WERE on many people's radar.

So can we ask what rock you've been hiding under to be unaware of OSU?

I’m thoroughly disappointed with your remarks. Not the accuracy, which I completely agree with, but the fact that it took someone from the left coast over 2 hrs to respond to BB’s bizarre prediction about OSU.

 

[mbr33ct]

@BostonBay needs to get a bigger and better radar me think.