UConn's Five vs UNC's Five | Page 2 | The Boneyard

UConn's Five vs UNC's Five

MJ was amazing even in college in the social media era no way does MJ go lower than 2. Back then teams were hell bent on having a center as a franchise player, much like NFL teams did back then with running backs. Blazers tried to convince themselves that Bowie was a franchise center, it was Bob Knight emphasizing to Portland how unbelievable MJ is and they had to draft him. Of course in a single elimination tourney anything is possible, Jordan's last year UNC lost to an Indiana team whose best player was Randy Wittman.

It's a dumb argument really. UNC fans in the comments section are getting pretty defensive and feel threatened that we have equaled them in national championships.
 
bendm said:
We’ve won the most chips with the fewest burger boys and lotto picks, that’s our thing. UNC Duke Kentucky Kansas blow us out in these debates and I couldn’t care less.
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We didn't have to be grandfathered in to the big ole boys club, whaa we won championships first, oh those championships before segregation. It's cool that most of our fanbase saw all our 6 championships.
 
superjohn said:
Ray Allen Consensus first team All-American. UPI Player of the year. No final fours.

Jordan 2 time Consensus first team All-American. Consensus National player of the year. 2 time Sporting News Player of the year. National Champion with the game winning shot.

Jordan's accolades are far superior and it's Michael friggin' Jordan. What are we even talking about here?

I do agree the gap isn't as wide as their pro careers which is a country mile.
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When they both take the floor as a junior First Team All American and POY, who cares what they did the year before? One game, them both juniors, the gap wasn’t that big.

I thought that’s what we’re taking about, not comparing accolades.
 
nomar said:
When they both take the floor as a junior First Team All American and POY, who cares what they did the year before? One game, them both juniors, the gap wasn’t that big.

I thought that’s what we’re taking about, not comparing accolades.
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I don't know what you're basing it on. Jordan was always a much better basketball player than Ray Allen. In a hypothetical of starting 5's, Jordan clearly puts UNC over UConn. It's why they tried to exclude Jordan from the discussion.
 
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nomar said:
When they both take the floor as a junior First Team All American and POY, who cares what they did the year before? One game, them both juniors, the gap wasn’t that big.

I thought that’s what we’re taking about, not comparing accolades.
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The gap was that big. We’re taking about MJ. The defense alone makes the gap big.
 
superjohn said:
I don't know what you're basing it on. Jordan was always a much better basketball player than Ray Allen. In a hypothetical of starting 5's, Jordan clearly puts UNC over UConn. It's why they tried to exclude Jordan from the discussion.
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This is a pretty dumb debate.

I didn’t say MJ wasn’t a better college basketball player than Ray, but Ray was pretty fantastic. UNC would have the advantage in the positional matchup but it’s not like it’s Lew Alcindor vs Jake Voskuhl. I think people are retconning UNC MJ into Air Jordan. If it was so clear he’d be the GOAT, he’d have been a Blazer. I know Dean Smith held his numbers down but nobody could have predicted what he’d become.

If we’re using these guys as NBA players then it’s no contest. But that’s not what I understand the debate to be.
 
nomar said:
This is a pretty dumb debate.

I didn’t say MJ wasn’t a better college basketball player than Ray, but Ray was pretty fantastic. UNC would have the advantage in the positional matchup but it’s not like it’s Lew Alcindor vs Jake Voskuhl. I think people are retconning UNC MJ into Air Jordan. If it was so clear he’d be the GOAT, he’d have been a Blazer. I know Dean Smith held his numbers down but nobody could have predicted what he’d become.

If we’re using these guys as NBA players then it’s no contest. But that’s not what I understand the debate to be.
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We're talking about Jordan as a college player.

We all know Ray Allen was fantastic. I thought we also all knew he was never close to Jordan as a basketball player in college or the pros.

Bobby Knight said Jordan was the best basketball player he's ever seen before Jordan ever put on a Bulls jersey.

Jordan not being picked by the idiotic front office of the Trailblazers is about them being idiots thinking they needed a center and Jordan couldn't play with Drexler instead of realizing he was a once in a generation player. Plenty of people saw it before Jordan got to the NBA. Nike bet the future of their company on him before he ever played an NBA game.
 
superjohn said:
We're talking about Jordan as a college player.

We all know Ray Allen was fantastic. I thought we also all knew he was never close to Jordan as a basketball player in college or the pros.

Bobby Knight said Jordan was the best basketball player he's ever seen before Jordan ever put on a Bulls jersey.

Jordan not being picked by the idiotic front office of the Trailblazers is about them being idiots thinking they needed a center and Jordan couldn't play with Drexler instead of realizing he was a once in a generation player. Plenty of people saw it before Jordan got to the NBA. Nike bet the future of their company on him before he ever played an NBA game.
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The pro stuff has nothibg to do with the prompt, as @nomar is saying. There’s 0 reason to try to shoehorn either guy’s NBA ability into the conversation
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
“I thought we also all knew he was never close to Jordan as a basketball player in college or the pros.”
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I said we're talking about him as a college player. Nomar brought up Jordan as an NBA player which I responded to and he again brought up Jordan as an NBA player which I responded to.

Follow the thread.
 
superjohn said:
I said we're talking about him as a college player. Nomar brought up Jordan as an NBA player which I responded to and he again brought up Jordan as an NBA player which I responded to.

Follow the thread.
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You brought up Jordan as an NBA player in the 4th reply on this thread, before Nomar even commented. What are you talking about lol
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
You brought up Jordan as an NBA player in the 4th reply on this thread, before Nomar even commented. What are you talking about lol
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That was an example to show how dumb the debate the former UNC players and Charlie V are having. If you take Jordan off of UNC of course they are nowhere near as formidable. UConn wouldn't be anywhere near as formidable if Ray or Okafor were taken off of UConn.

Come on dude. Actually try and follow the thread.
 
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superjohn said:
That was an example to show how dumb the debate the former UNC players and Charlie V are having. If you take Jordan off of UNC of course they are nowhere near as formidable. UConn wouldn't be anywhere near as formidable if Ray or Okafor were taken off of UConn.

Come on dude. Actually try and follow the thread.
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But that’s the debate they’re having, so discuss that lmao. You can start a podcast and have your own debate with Jordan alone vs UConn if you’d like.

You keep bringing up Jordan’s god like NBA ability, Nomar’s only NBA comment was to say that gulf between Ray and Jordan was smaller in college than the NBA and you were taken aback.

They have similar stats at their best in college. Obviously Jordan was a better player, but we aren’t talking 94-96 Jordan here.
 
nomar said:
This is a pretty dumb debate.

I didn’t say MJ wasn’t a better college basketball player than Ray, but Ray was pretty fantastic. UNC would have the advantage in the positional matchup but it’s not like it’s Lew Alcindor vs Jake Voskuhl. I think people are retconning UNC MJ into Air Jordan. If it was so clear he’d be the GOAT, he’d have been a Blazer. I know Dean Smith held his numbers down but nobody could have predicted what he’d become.

If we’re using these guys as NBA players then it’s no contest. But that’s not what I understand the debate to be.
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He'd have been a Rocket.

Says something about how great Hakeem was that even in a draft that featured Michael Jordan it's taken as a given that Olajuwon went No. 1
 
Jordan would clearly be the best player on the floor, but there are other caveats to who would win. I don't think anybody from NC matches up with Kemba. Kemba as a junior was a mix of pure speed and physicality at that position. He was really tough at both ends of the floor.
Ray is inferior to Jordan, but at their college peaks not by a ton. The question is are they playing with a 3 point line. It wasn't a thing in Jordan's college years and his outside shot didn't really come to be consistent until half way through his pro career. It's tough to compare. The closest thing I can look to is their 3 pt percentage their rookie years in the NBA. Ray's 3pt percentage was twice what Jordan's was, but the line was further back.
I think RIP or Caron would hold their own at SF.
Worthy was a great college PF. I think he and Yell would be another intriguing matchup.
At center, Okafor could hold is own with anyone.

Again the rules would be a factor and I know NC fans would hate to hear this, but coaching is a big part of winning and I respect Dean Smith greatly, but I take Calhoun for Xs and Os in a head to head matchup over any coach. People often talk about his toughness and imposing his will, but he was great at coming up with schemes and plays for big games.

I think it would be more interesting like some have mentioned was building a 10 man roster to win a game head to head. They don't have to be the best 10 players in the programs history, but the 10 you would take to work as a team and win a game. For example, do you take Moore and Castle and try to wear Jordan down? Do you take DC because of the combination of strength and how much space he just ate up or do you take Thabeet or go all the way back to Quimby. For me, that's fun to think about.
 
Let's also look beyond the individual players here.

There'd be a 3 pt line and none of the guards or small forwards on UNC are noted as being great 3 pt shooters. Carter, Jordan (wasn't his specialty), Stackhouse, Phil Ford, etc. We'd have Ray, Rip and Kemba on the arc. With Okafor protecting the middle (DPOY).
 
Deepster said:
Let's also look beyond the individual players here.

There'd be a 3 pt line and none of the guards or small forwards on UNC are noted as being great 3 pt shooters. Carter, Jordan (wasn't his specialty), Stackhouse, Phil Ford, etc. We'd have Ray, Rip and Kemba on the arc. With Okafor protecting the middle (DPOY).
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When I first heard them bring this topic up I thought to myself “This is fun but it has to be UNC, right?”. But when you think about it in respect to the modern game, I think our guys would win. UNC definitely has big depth advantage if it was a full roster, but I think out guards/wings are somewhat easily clear.
 
Inyatkin said:
He'd have been a Rocket.

Says something about how great Hakeem was that even in a draft that featured Michael Jordan it's taken as a given that Olajuwon went No. 1
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You're right. The way I framed it (20/20 hindsight), the Rockets certainly would have picked him #1. (Although some people do disagree.) Everybody rightfully gives Houston a pass because of how amazing (H)akeem was.
 
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superjohn said:
We're talking about Jordan as a college player.

We all know Ray Allen was fantastic. I thought we also all knew he was never close to Jordan as a basketball player in college or the pros.

Bobby Knight said Jordan was the best basketball player he's ever seen before Jordan ever put on a Bulls jersey.

Jordan not being picked by the idiotic front office of the Trailblazers is about them being idiots thinking they needed a center and Jordan couldn't play with Drexler instead of realizing he was a once in a generation player. Plenty of people saw it before Jordan got to the NBA. Nike bet the future of their company on him before he ever played an NBA game.
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That's what Knight said after the Olympics, you're right. He was very impressed. OTOH, here's what the guy who drafted Jordan thought:

“When I drafted him, I said, ‘OK, we’re gonna get a good player here,'” said Rod Thorn, the Nets president who was Chicago’s GM when the Bulls had the No. 3 pick in 1984.

“I thought, he’ll come in and play and help us. But to think that he would be what he turned out to be? No way. No way.”

As great as his trade was for Jason Kidd, turning the Nets into a championship contender for the first time, Thorn’s drafting of Jordan will always be his legacy as an NBA executive. Before the Nets took on Detroit in the Meadowlands this past week, he sat at courtside and talked about the draft that changed the course of pro basketball history.

“Back then, the knock on Michael was that he couldn’t shoot the ball,” Thorn recalled. “For a long time, that first season, he just drove the ball to the basket and he didn’t need a shot. But Michael was so smart, he learned from taking some mighty licks. So he said, ‘I gotta get a jump shot,’ and he got one. But when we looked at him for the draft, he was 195 pounds and 6-6, so he was kind of thin. So the biggest thing about him was, can he make a shot? We wondered what kind of shooter he’d be.”

UNC MJ was amazing. He wasn't Air Jordan, yet.
 
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