UConn's Five vs UNC's Five

[billythekid]

Lively discussion on the To The Baha podcast about which school would have the best all-time starting five. I think they excluded Michael Jordan for the sake of the discussion. Charlie V gives a spirited case for UConn. Kemba Kemba Kemba!

 

[OceanDoggie]

Podcast with Raymond Felton and Theo Pinson vs Charlie Villanueva. A lot of yelling and swearing but funny nonetheless.

 

[aceboon]

saw this going viral on social media and folks commenting were way too dismissive of Ray/Rip vs Vince Carter as college players, part of it is due to Dean Smith's system suppressing him but the VC we saw in college was not the VC we saw in the NBA. There's a reason he went 5th behind guys who weren't as talented as him.

 

[storrsroars]

You can't have a serious - or even interesting - discussion on this if you're leaving out Jordan.

 

[Waquoit]

Podcast with Raymond Felton and Theo Pinson vs Charlie Villanueva. A lot of yelling and swearing but funny nonetheless.

The Theo Pinson?

 

[superjohn]

Someone sent this to me earlier and man is it stupid.

How many NBA championships would the Bulls have won without Jordan?

 

[superjohn]

saw this going viral on social media and folks commenting were way too dismissive of Ray/Rip vs Vince Carter as college players, part of it is due to Dean Smith's system suppressing him but the VC we saw in college was not the VC we saw in the NBA. There's a reason he went 5th behind guys who weren't as talented as him.

Ray and RIP were both better than Vince in college. Ray was better than Vince in the NBA as well.

 

[Mr. French]

It’s kinda easy with Jordan included, so that’s why they left him out I assume. There’s not much debate. Without him, it’s close but I take UConn.

I agree @superjohn Ray still is underrated.

 

[Excalibur]

It’s kinda easy with Jordan included, so that’s why they left him out I assume. There’s not much debate. Without him, it’s close but I take UConn.

I agree @superjohn Ray still is underrated.

Ray is criminally underrated because nobody paid attention to him until he ended up in Boston later in his career so everyone sees him as a really good one-dimensional shooter. When he was in Milwaukee and Seattle he was a top tier athlete and elite three level scorer. He was just on some awful teams.

 

[Deepster]

Include Jordan. The discussion is about the college version of each player and both Ray and Rip both stack up with Jordan, without a doubt.

The green cells are the leader of the 3 year by year (Jordan had the highest FG% as a freshman, Rip scored the most PPG as a freshman).

 

[superjohn]

Include Jordan. The discussion is about the college version of each player and both Ray and Rip both stack up with Jordan, without a doubt.

The green cells are the leader of the 3 year by year (Jordan had the highest FG% as a freshman, Rip scored the most PPG as a freshman).

View attachment 116960

Come on man.

Jordan was consensus National POY. Sporting News two time National POY and he hit the national championship game winning shot his freshman year.

 

[Inyatkin]

Ray is criminally underrated because nobody paid attention to him until he ended up in Boston later in his career so everyone sees him as a really good one-dimensional shooter. When he was in Milwaukee and Seattle he was a top tier athlete and elite three level scorer. He was just on some awful teams.

I don't know, he had good playoff runs with both Milwaukee and Seattle. I agree his late-career role as mostly just a shooter made people forget how great he was earlier, though

 

[Deepster]

Come on man.

Jordan was consensus National POY. Sporting News two time National POY and he hit the national championship game winning shot his freshman year.

Statistically speaking, there's not enough of a gap to call it an automatic win for the UNC starting five. In fact, his junior year, Jordan didn't get past the Sweet 16.

And Keith Smart hit a game winning shot. Has no impact on a UNC 5 vs UConn 5 discussion.

 

[7774]

Statistically speaking, there's not enough of a gap to call it an automatic win for the UNC starting five. In fact, his junior year, Jordan didn't get past the Sweet 16.

And Keith Smart hit a game winning shot. Has no impact on a UNC 5 vs UConn 5 discussion.

Statistically, sure. That’s why it’s a cliche to say the only person who could hold Jordan under 20 is Dean Smith.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The prompt they decided to discuss was without Jordan. Can’t we just debate that?

 

[nomar]

Come on man.

Jordan was consensus National POY. Sporting News two time National POY and he hit the national championship game winning shot his freshman year.

The gap between peak UConn ray and peak UNC Jordan wasn't that big. Exponentially smaller than the difference between their respective pro careers.

 

[TGW93]

Are we playing pre-three-point line rules or modern rules?

It's close regardless, but the all-time teams are going to reflect different types of games. UNC's all-time team is biased towards play without the three-point line, so they would win a match-up where there's no three-point line. UConn is more reflective of the modern game, so I would go with the good guys if there is a three-point line.

 

[HailUConn]

I can see the argument for Jordan to be excluded because he is not human.

 

[Lafayette]

Ray and RIP were both better than Vince in college. Ray was better than Vince in the NBA as well.

Yeah, betting money was on Antawn Jamison being a better pro than Vince Carter, but Carter was better in the NBA

 

[HuskyHawk]

Come on man.

Jordan was consensus National POY. Sporting News two time National POY and he hit the national championship game winning shot his freshman year.

As the saying goes, the only man that can hold Michael Jordan under 20 ppg is Dean Smith. We can't pretend he was unleashed to even do what he'd have been able to do on some other teams.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

As the saying goes, the only man that can hold Michael Jordan under 20 ppg is Dean Smith. We can't pretend he was unleashed to even do what he'd have been able to do on some other teams.

You can only compare the numbers that occurred.

Either way, these guys said excluding MJ. So the conversation should go off that.

 

[superjohn]

The gap between peak UConn ray and peak UNC Jordan wasn't that big. Exponentially smaller than the difference between their respective pro careers.

Ray Allen Consensus first team All-American. UPI Player of the year. No final fours.

Jordan 2 time Consensus first team All-American. Consensus National player of the year. 2 time Sporting News Player of the year. National Champion with the game winning shot.

Jordan's accolades are far superior and it's Michael friggin' Jordan. What are we even talking about here?

I do agree the gap isn't as wide as their pro careers which is a country mile.

 

[superjohn]

As the saying goes, the only man that can hold Michael Jordan under 20 ppg is Dean Smith. We can't pretend he was unleashed to even do what he'd have been able to do on some other teams.

Exactly. I've always thought Dean Smith is the most overrated coach ever. Jordan left Carolina and averaged over 28 ppg his rookie season, his next healthy season he averaged over 37.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Exactly. I've always thought Dean Smith is the most overrated coach ever. Jordan left Carolina and averaged over 28 ppg his rookie season, his next healthy season he averaged over 37.

He won. But he single handedly forced the implementation of a shot clock. Not coincidentally that came the year after Jordan left for the NBA (84-85). The three point shot was added then next year (1985-86). So Jordan didn't have either to boost his stats. Ray played in the shot clock and 3 point shot era.

Kind of hard to beat a team with Jordan, Worthy, Phil Ford and whatever bigs you choose from McAdoo, Perkins, Hansbrough, Wallace. Not sure who the other forward is either, Carter, Jamieson, Stackhouse.

 

[bendm]

We’ve won the most chips with the fewest burger boys and lotto picks, that’s our thing. UNC Duke Kentucky Kansas blow us out in these debates and I couldn’t care less.

 

[Scoe]

MJ was amazing even in college in the social media era no way does MJ go lower than 2. Back then teams were hell bent on having a center as a franchise player, much like NFL teams did back then with running backs. Blazers tried to convince themselves that Bowie was a franchise center, it was Bob Knight emphasizing to Portland how unbelievable MJ is and they had to draft him. Of course in a single elimination tourney anything is possible, Jordan's last year UNC lost to an Indiana team whose best player was Randy Wittman.

It's a dumb argument really. UNC fans in the comments section are getting pretty defensive and feel threatened that we have equaled them in national championships.

 

[Scoe]

We’ve won the most chips with the fewest burger boys and lotto picks, that’s our thing. UNC Duke Kentucky Kansas blow us out in these debates and I couldn’t care less.

We didn't have to be grandfathered in to the big ole boys club, whaa we won championships first, oh those championships before segregation. It's cool that most of our fanbase saw all our 6 championships.

 

[nomar]

Ray Allen Consensus first team All-American. UPI Player of the year. No final fours.

Jordan 2 time Consensus first team All-American. Consensus National player of the year. 2 time Sporting News Player of the year. National Champion with the game winning shot.

Jordan's accolades are far superior and it's Michael friggin' Jordan. What are we even talking about here?

I do agree the gap isn't as wide as their pro careers which is a country mile.

When they both take the floor as a junior First Team All American and POY, who cares what they did the year before? One game, them both juniors, the gap wasn’t that big.

I thought that’s what we’re taking about, not comparing accolades.

 

[superjohn]

When they both take the floor as a junior First Team All American and POY, who cares what they did the year before? One game, them both juniors, the gap wasn’t that big.

I thought that’s what we’re taking about, not comparing accolades.

I don't know what you're basing it on. Jordan was always a much better basketball player than Ray Allen. In a hypothetical of starting 5's, Jordan clearly puts UNC over UConn. It's why they tried to exclude Jordan from the discussion.

 

[Scoe]

Cam Spencer vs MJ bring it