UConn women

[imno1]

This is why we need Diamond Stone. I don't think they lose this game if he were on the team.

 

[ctchamps]

the fact that people are looking to critique arguably the greatest coach in women's bb is telling. the fact that people like you only do this after he loses which is maybe once a year is even more telling.
Never said Geno was untouchable. just not sure why his coaching ability is even a question or point of criticism at this point.
If you tell me that if Geno went 2-5 in OT that he could have 10 or 11 NC's I'd care. The guy is at the pinnacle of his career. In 50 years, this will likely be viewed as the golden age of women's basketball. and thankfully, we have people like you pointing out these facts to prove that the program/coach weren't perfect.
why don't you go back when Wooden was coaching and winning everything that his team only shot 78% from the free throw line meaning he didn't coach fundamentals, or that his team was outscored in the first 3 minutes of the 2nd half suggesting he couldn't motivate during half-time.
Put away the magnifying glass and stop looking for complaints. Teams lose. Get over it.

You are way off base on this. mau is one of the few men's posters who regularly goes to the women's forum commenting on the games. He's frequently quite complementary. I don't think anything he's saying is unfair to Geno or the women's team.

 

[blackbird]

I thought they were going to miss Hartley and Dolson, at least in the beginning of the year..and it showed.

At the end of the day, in close games..it was those two (even with Stewart) making decisions with the ball. Moriah's never had to do that. Chong didn't even play in big games last season (and she had a great showing last night. I don't blame her for what happened at the end of the game. She shouldn't have been the one who got the ball, but KML and Stewart ran away from it.)

Stewart's a great player. Probably good enough to win the tournament by herself. But there are going to be some bumps in the road this season, because the team is going to be dependent on a Freshman (Nurse) and some backup players who are just now learning how to play in big games. (Tuck, Stokes, and Chong.) Not to mention, it's silly to think that Dolson and Hartley's loss doesn't effect Jefferson..who now is the lead guard, KML..who isn't going to get as many open shots because perimeter defenders are focused on her, not Hartley and Dolson isn't there to set screens for her, and Stewart..because the second and third best players from last season aren't on the team any longer.

It's actually very similar to the season where Bird, Cash, Williams and Jones left. Stewart has more talented pieces around her, but there's a huge impact.

 

[Inyatkin]

UConn looked inept on a shocking number of plays -- as if they had no idea what they were doing. And yet they led almost the whole game, and only went to OT on a nearly last-second three. They had many chances to win in overtime. This on the road against a top ten team.
It's fair to say if they make some tweaks and play semi-competent basketball in crunch time that they'll be fine.

 

[CL82]

According to this, Jasmine Lister

She played at Vandy, apparently. She looked smokin' hot last night. Oh and apparently she's a twin...

Jasmine and Cinnamon.

 

[CL82]

Agreed. There's jealousy even in here. People ripping kml for her is size when she can ball and has one of the best looking shots I've seen. It's honestly pretty pathetic.

They lost to a good team, that always plays them hard, in ot, away, and without dolson. You can tell how badly they miss dolson. New pieces, new places

Going to disagree. KML looked flat footed and slow. It's fair to talk about her conditioning. I'd be surprised if you found any jealousy on this board. Most of the posters here range from enthusiac supporters of the woman's team to entirely disinterested. Jealousy, not so much.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I can see why it's a sensitive issue, since there is a lot of talk about women with body issues, etc., but KML is an athlete, and she's not in great shape. It's not like Khalid's conditioning wasn't discussed every time he had a poor game. She's still a very good player, but I think it's hard to make an argument that she wouldn't be better if she dropped some weight.

 

[ctchamps]

Lot of players struggled in this game and they still barely lost.

Agree with @Gurleyman. Chong and KML struggle to contain players. Stanford exploited this by making Stokes move away from the basket. She's too slow to come back and contest shots. So it was a layup drill for Stanford's guards. Keep Stokes in the post and she's a very good shot blocker. Kia Nurse and Mo Jefferson are much better on ball perimeter defenders but neither is reliable at hitting perimeter shots. And that presents problems on offense because Stokes isn't a reliable scorer in the low post, nor does she draw double teams like Dolson, which provided Stewie freedom of movement last season.

Tuck is a better all around player than Stokes, but she hasn't regained the mobility she had prior to her injury and surgeries so she has problems moving laterally. Furthermore tall players that Stokes is able to neutralize, can shoot over Tuck. However on offense Tuck is a much better player than Stokes. She has a good to very good inside outside game and she showed it in the Stanford game. Most of her shots were quality shots but she missed a lot she's capable of making. It will be interesting to see if she can regain her speed and her reliability on offense. That would go a long way to fixing some things because teams won't be able to double and triple team Stewie like Stanford was able to do with Stokes in the game and guards won't be able to drive so easily to the basket.

Two or three times last season Mo Jefferson had woeful games. But she had Bria Hartley to bail her out. Last night her game was as bad as anything she did since early in her freshman season. Mo struggled with dribbling, shooting, passing and even her defense wasn't as sharp as it usually is. Even her decision making was poor. Granted her player was not a great 3 point shooter, but to leave her wide open when Stanford needed a 3 at the end of regulation was an awful choice. But I think this game is an aberration and am not worried about her.

Chong really has improved on offense and outside of her decision to drive to the basket in OT instead of taking the 3, I liked the tremendous improvement on offense. As I've mentioned her problems come on the defensive end, but I believe she will get much better with containing her player, the same as we've seen with many of the men's guards who have improved from freshman to sophomore season.

KML has taken a lot of grief from the women's forum posters about her weight. She gained a lot of weight to start last season even before her injury. Personally I think it's her body type. On offense she didn't score a lot but she was effective at spreading Stanfords defense and that is a valuable weapon. Geno is going to have to set up picks for her to give her better shooting options. On defense she's never been a great defender, but in this game she was really exposed. Agree with @Gurleyman on this as well. In the past with Bria Hartley and Kelly Farris this was not a major issue. If Chong improves on defense and Tuck comes back from the injury, then Geno will be able to keep KML in the line up. Otherwise he'll have to resort to more zone or put Nurse in for KML.

 

[amory]

I haven't watched them nearly enough to know for sure, but Stewart doesn't seem like much of a leader. She's clearly the most talented player on the court at any given time, regardless of who the opponent is, but in a close game like that she should've been demanding the ball.

She didn't need to lead last year with Dolson and Hartley there, but she'll have to step up this year if they want to win #10.

 

[Gurleyman]

They lost one game... It's post like that make this place so impossible. Are you really extrapolating that a coach who has won 9 championships and done it by challenging the other top teams each year, can't coach because his team lost in mid-November. The guy is so good, any loss is unexpected. And yet people here expect more. And these are the same posters that set the tone for men's bb and FB.

You're missing my point. I don't care so much that we lost. Stanford exposed some personnel flaws on both ends that we'll have to work on (defending the 2-3 positions off the dribble, how to attack double teams). Had they won by just simply making one more shot than we did down the stretch, c'est la vie. It's November. Those things can be improved on.

My point stemmed from the fact that I expect a coach to be able to gather his team with one last desperate chance to win a game, and have them take the floor with some sort of a bloody clue of what they are supposed to run. I certainly wasn't expecting to win the game at that point, but our team didn't know who was supposed to inbound the ball, the ref started the 5 count before we even had anyone there to inbound it, and then we gave it to a center 80 feet from the basket and dribbled out the clock with the slowest player on the floor. If we had tried to run a normal desperation Hail Mary play in that situation and it didn't work, I probably wouldn't have posted (or I would have been more likely to focus on our defensive problems). But that moment harkened back to my absolute shock that he tried to run a high degree of difficulty weak side alley oop with 17 seconds left in a conference championship game and the shot clock off, turned it over and lost when the other team never should have gotten the ball. That was flunking Basic Principles Of Coaching 101 in a championship game.

The other mistakes we made yesterday were what I consider egregious late-game player errors (leaving them wide open on the tying 3 by helping but not really helping, going for 2 down by 3, shooting twice with 15-20 seconds on the shot clock up by five with less than 2 minutes left). I'd let those slide as kids not used to late game pressure situations losing their heads, and early season teachable moments, without the cluelessness of the last possession. But these are all kids with at least one full year of college coaching behind them (other than Chong, the rest have 2 or 3) and they played like they didn't know basic principles of time and score. They aren't in those situations much, but that doesn't mean they should look so unprepared. Less than two minutes left, everything is predicated by time and score. Basic stuff. Would rather get a shot clock violation up 5 than have centers shooting 20 footers early in the shot clock.

Geno's obviously the best coach in the biz. Recruiting? Check. Motivating? Check. Scouting opponents? Check. Game planning? Check. Halftime adjustments when needed? Check. Nobody better at any of those things. That's why we blow everybody out so regularly. Those rare occasions he is in a tight game late, though, have been a glaring Achilles heel. His team consistently looks unprepared in those moments (0-5 in overtime in the last 10 years, for example). At first glimpse, I don't think his team this year is good enough defensively or athletic enough to just blow everyone out, so he may need to coach in the last two minutes in the tourney a little this time around, and our team may need to know what they're doing under pressure.

 

[Cheeky]

UConn pretty much had three games look like this against Notre Dame 2 season ago and then licked their butts in the tourney on their way to another title.

I may have to start watching some women's basketball.

 

[EricSD]

UCONN's offense was good for most of the game. Their defense was like swiss cheese much of the time. Wide open lanes and Stanford took advantage and exposed them. I was stunned the game was close, never mind a UCONN loss. Geno was not only outcoached during the game, he did not have his players prepared to play proper defense. Time and again Stanford set up 2 players at the top of the key with the ball handler behind them, and they set picks, reverse picks, screens, reverse screens, and basically caused confusion among the UCONN defenders which led to wide open shots by Stanford. Brilliant game plan by Tara.

 

[intlzncster]

KML's game is a lot like mine. If you leave me open, I can nail three pointers all day. This works well for me against old men. However, when I play young kids, they defend me and my shot, shut me down and embarrass me. I've learned my limitations and we've all seen KML's.

She's got way more game than people are giving her credit for. Strong as an ox, can board, pass and bang. Has gotten way better at drawing fouls than when she came in. She's a first team AA type player.

She wasn't great last night, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

 

[intlzncster]

I may have to start watching some women's basketball.

That's cheeky.

 

[dsturdy5]

UCONN's offense was good for most of the game. Their defense was like swiss cheese much of the time. Wide open lanes and Stanford took advantage and exposed them. I was stunned the game was close, never mind a UCONN loss. Geno was not only outcoached during the game, he did not have his players prepared to play proper defense. Time and again Stanford set up 2 players at the top of the key with the ball handler behind them, and they set picks, reverse picks, screens, reverse screens, and basically caused confusion among the UCONN defenders which led to wide open shots by Stanford. Brilliant game plan by Tara.

It was a good game plan. They challenged UConn to guard them in space. Their floor spacing was terrific and screens were well set. The other players stayed the hell away from the screener and ball handler and gave them room to operate. There was no way weak-side help was going to make it to where the ball was when it needed to. The spacing also caused UConn to rotate further than they are used to. Great game plan. Not many teams out there will trot out a line up like Stanford did with the shooters and ball handlers that the Cardinal have in their arsenal. It isn't the best Stanford team I've watched but they are very good and played a strong game.

 

[intlzncster]

Going to disagree. KML looked flat footed and slow. It's fair to talk about her conditioning. I'd be surprised if you found any jealousy on this board. Most of the posters here range from enthusiac supporters of the woman's team to entirely disinterested. Jealousy, not so much.

Eh, there's also a good portion that take every opportunity to tell you just how pathetic WCBB is, which stems from god knows what.

 

[intlzncster]

I can see why it's a sensitive issue, since there is a lot of talk about women with body issues, etc., but KML is an athlete, and she's not in great shape. It's not like Khalid's conditioning wasn't discussed every time he had a poor game. She's still a very good player, but I think it's hard to make an argument that she wouldn't be better if she dropped some weight.

But, most of that Khalid chatter was BS. imho though.

 

[CallMeBruce]

But, most of that Khalid chatter was BS. imho though.

Really? You think that Khalid was fit when he was at UConn? He may have been a great player regardless, but you can't convince me that a basketball player can carry that much extra body fat without it affecting his game.

 

[dsturdy5]

Really? You think that Khalid was fit when he was at UConn? He may have been a great player regardless, but you can't convince me that a basketball player can carry that much extra body fat without it affecting his game.

Hey! Raf once called it "Middle Body Strength"

 

[intlzncster]

KML has taken a lot of grief from the women's forum posters about her weight. She gained a lot of weight to start last season even before her injury. Personally I think it's her body type. On offense she didn't score a lot but she was effective at spreading Stanfords defense and that is a valuable weapon. Geno is going to have to set up picks for her to give her better shooting options. On defense she's never been a great defender, but in this game she was really exposed. Agree with @Gurleyman on this as well. In the past with Bria Hartley and Kelly Farris this was not a major issue. If Chong improves on defense and Tuck comes back from the injury, then Geno will be able to keep KML in the line up. Otherwise he'll have to resort to more zone or put Nurse in for KML.

More likely, Nurse will be playing for Chong. Nurse is a scrapper like Faris, and will be able to fill that role given more experience over the year.

 

[intlzncster]

Really? You think that Khalid was fit when he was at UConn? He may have been a great player regardless, but you can't convince me that a basketball player can carry that much extra body fat without it affecting his game.

I think that's his body type. I've never seen a 'fit', ripped El-Amin. It's not like he became a svelt pro or anything. He's a tubby dude.

Put it this way, whenever he had a bad game at UCONN, it wasn't because he carried too much body fat. It's because he played like crap.

 

[intlzncster]

It was a good game plan. They challenged UConn to guard them in space. Their floor spacing was terrific and screens were well set. The other players stayed the hell away from the screener and ball handler and gave them room to operate. There was no way weak-side help was going to make it to where the ball was when it needed to. The spacing also caused UConn to rotate further than they are used to. Great game plan. Not many teams out there will trot out a line up like Stanford did with the shooters and ball handlers that the Cardinal have in their arsenal. It isn't the best Stanford team I've watched but they are very good and played a strong game.

Also note that Tara Vanderveer (regularly) prepares for this game all off season long. They watch enormous amounts of tape, put together rock solid game plans, and coach for this particular game long before it shows up on the schedule. It's not quite their Super Bowl (as they are a great program), but it's something like that.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I think that's his body type. I've never seen a 'fit', ripped El-Amin. It's not like he became a svelt pro or anything. He's a tubby dude.

Put it this way, whenever he had a bad game at UCONN, it wasn't because he carried too much body fat. It's because he played like crap.

Yeah, but there's a difference between a bigger body type and carrying extra body fat. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Khalid would have been a better player if he dropped 10-15 pounds of fat. He still would have been pretty stocky, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt his quickness.

 

[ctchamps]

More likely, Nurse will be playing for Chong. Nurse is a scrapper like Faris, and will be able to fill that role given more experience over the year.

That's the way he's doing things now subbing Nurse in for Chong. But if Chong improves her d my guess is he might be subbing Nurse in for KML. KML will never get better on d. Chong may getter better. If she doesn't than yes, Nurse in for Chong.

 

[UCweCONN]

She's got way more game than people are giving her credit for. Strong as an ox, can board, pass and bang. Has gotten way better at drawing fouls than when she came in. She's a first team AA type player.

She wasn't great last night, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

If she was a center, I'd say being strong as an ox would be a major asset, but at her position that translates into slow reflexes, foot work, and an inability to get up and down the court. At her position, having a motor is the key attribut I want to see. Granted, she 'ain't no size two' body type and will never be, but she's a D1 athlete whose conditioning has worsened since she's been a Husky. It's a fair critism. This isn't about picking on her. Carrying extra weight also puts stress on a player's knees which will shorten her career later. I'm amazed she's been able to survive Geno's supposedly killer practices with her conditioning level.

 

[GoUconn7961]

As a fairly regular poster on the woman's board, and an avid UCONN Basketball fan (both teams) I agree that:
1. Its early enough to make the necessary adjustments
2. Geno is not the best in OT coaching decisions
3. Ridiculously bad defense last night - even I could've driven to the basket
4. Horrible shot selection - especially down the stretch
5. KML - though a top notch player - could stand to work with a nutritionist to help her stamina and quickness. That said - we really don't know what her eating patterns are like since I don't think any of us travels with the team. I know I don't.

Great analysis on this board.

WE ARE DOOMED!! DOOMED I SAY! Edited to add: Maybe we need to borrow Senor T!

 

[intlzncster]

As a fairly regular poster on the woman's board, and an avid UCONN Basketball fan (both teams) I agree that:
1. Its early enough to make the necessary adjustments
2. Geno is not the best in OT coaching decisions
3. Ridiculously bad defense last night - even I could've driven to the basket
4. Horrible shot selection - especially down the stretch
5. KML - though a top notch player - could stand to work with a nutritionist to help her stamina and quickness. That said - we really don't know what her eating patterns are like since I don't think any of us travels with the team. I know I don't.

Great analysis on this board.

WE ARE DOOMED!! DOOMED I SAY! Edited to add: Maybe we need to borrow Senor T!

I'm pretty sure that would not go over so well on the WBBB, but I wholeheartedly encourage you trying. (grabs popcorn)

 

[CL82]

More likely, Nurse will be playing for Chong. Nurse is a scrapper like Faris, and will be able to fill that role given more experience over the year.

They need scores and Chong was on fire from the three last night. I think they could end up on the court together in some games. The question is who would sit?

 

[CL82]

As a fairly regular poster on the woman's board, and an avid UCONN Basketball fan (both teams) I agree that:
1. Its early enough to make the necessary adjustments
2. Geno is not the best in OT coaching decisions
3. Ridiculously bad defense last night - even I could've driven to the basket
4. Horrible shot selection - especially down the stretch
5. KML - though a top notch player - could stand to work with a nutritionist to help her stamina and quickness. That said - we really don't know what her eating patterns are like since I don't think any of us travels with the team. I know I don't.

Great analysis on this board.

WE ARE DOOMED!! DOOMED I SAY! Edited to add: Maybe we need to borrow Senor T!

Re: point 5 I believe she already is and is working on her conditioning. There's nothing that was said on this board that she isn't aware of.

 

[Cheeky]

Eh, there's also a good portion that take every opportunity to tell you just how pathetic WCBB is, which stems from god knows what.

To do a little psychology - I think it stems from many supporters of women's basketball believing, and vocally presenting their beliefs, that women's basketball is something it is not.

Examples include - "fundamentally sound." "played the right way." and my personal favorite: "could beat some men's teams."

I think the last one is the one that sets people off the most. I remember back in the Rebecca Lobo era when my good friend first discovered sports and told me that, "the women's team could play the men's team close." I responded with, "if the men's team played that game seriously, the woman's team would have trouble scoring 10 points." He got all angry and defensive. Meanwhile, I had played thousands of hours of basketball and he was, essentially, a non-athlete.

Doesn't really bother me - I like the top of the woman's game. I find it fun to watch the top teams playing. I like the rivalries. Thought the nappy headed hoes at Rutgers thing was awesome. Tennessee/UConn is fun. Notre Dame's rise is interesting. But I don't get bothered when the fans oversell the product. That's fine with me. It's their thing, and it's good they're proud of it.

I can see, however, that it really chafes some hardcore bball fans when they do things like compare mbb and wbb all time records. The only thing the two sports have in common are the equipment and the rules.

So I think that's why people go out of their way to knock it - they're not being nasty for the sake of nasty, they're trying to, inelegantly, inform the wbb fans that they are not the same as mbb.