UConn projected to win less games than Central | Page 3 | The Boneyard

UConn projected to win less games than Central

HuskiesAllDay said:
You are ripping on people who are reacting to actual results that are happening.

BUT at the same time your entire position is based on something you admit to not knowing (and have no evidence to support other than hope/faith).

So in other words, ignore what is happening now in reality, but act as if an unknown future outcome will/might be positive?

That is your argument?
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Where he's coming from is the situation is fixed for this season. Therefore what's the value of making the same complaints after every bad play or bad game. He understands the reasons for the complaints, but what value do they serve?

The only positive thing fans can do given circumstances any year is to support the team for the year. Period. It's a quitters personality to do otherwise. At the end of the season the AD will make a decision. If he needs to see us not showing up to games to make that decision he's not a good AD.

I'm all for protesting and boycotting. But not for my teams. Any boycotting of the team actually makes the decision to terminate a contract more difficult because the monies are reduced to buy out contracts.

Whether anyone wants KO to stay or go (or any other coach for that matter) they make their feelings known but provide the AD with the monies to properly handle the situation.
 
HuskiesAllDay said:
I use actual arguments to do so and its based on what is happening in real life. I'm calling you out for not having one (while you call people out for not having one).

Glad you at least admitted it.
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What is it that is happening now? We have a team that is 6-2, with a loss to the #3 team, in which it was competitive for a half. They also lost a bad game to a decent Arkansas team that is very up and down (beat OU, lost to Houston).

To me, that is what is happening. At this point last year, let us see where we were.
  1. We lost to two cupcakes
  2. We lost two of our 3 best players, plus Diarra was ruled out.
  3. We barely beat a weak LMU team
  4. We lost to OSU and Oregon in Maui
  5. We beat BU 51-49 (this year we won 85-66, with walk ons finishing)
  6. Our two wins over D1 teams going into the Syracuse game were by a total of 5 points.
So we had a skeleton roster with only three guards, one of whom was a freshman. Our shooting guard had to play the wing because our freshman wing couldn't hit the ocean from a boat, and Larrier was gone. Then Jalen hurt his ankle against Houston.

That team took Auburn to OT. Beat Cuse. Nearly beat Ohio State on the road, and managed to win 16 games, going .500 in conference. It won two games in the league tournament. It did that with 8 scholarship players, three of which were freshmen, and one of which was Enoch. Diarra and Carlton already look better than Enoch or Durham did.

You have to be willfully blind or monumentally stupid to think that this team is in worse shape than that team. Or to predict that the win total will be similar to 2016-17. We are already +4 on last year, and the roster is in better shape. I'm sure I'll be labeled an Ollie apologist now, even though I've been loudly critical of him.
 
W Colgate Gampel Pavilion 11/10 7 p.m. SNY
W Stony Brook XL Center 11/14 7 p.m. SNY
W Boston University XL Center 11/19 6 p.m. SNY
W Oregon Portland, OR 11/23 9 p.m. ESPN U
L Michigan State/DePaul Portland, OR 11/24 9:30 p.m./12 a.m. TBD
L PK80 Day 3 Portland, OR 11/25 TBD TBD
W Columbia Gampel Pavilion 11/29 7 p.m. SNY
W Monmouth XL Center 12/2 4 p.m. SNY

Syracuse New York, NY 12/5 9 p.m. ESPN
W Coppin State Gampel Pavilion 12/9 TBA ESPN 2/ESPN U
L Arizona Tuscon, AZ 12/21 TBA TBD
Auburn Auburn, AL 12/23 2:30 p.m. ESPN 2
L Wichita State XL Center 12/30 12 p.m. CBS
Tulsa Tulsa, OK 1/3 7 p.m. ESPNews
W East Carolina XL Center 1/6 12 p.m. ESPNews
W UCF Gampel Pavilion 1/10 7 p.m. CBS Sports
W Tulane New Orleans, LA 1/13 1 p.m. ESPNews
Memphis Memphis, TN 1/16 9 p.m. CBS Sports
L Villanova XL Center 1/20 12 p.m. CBS
SMU Gampel Pavilion 1/25 7 p.m. CBS Sports
Temple Philadelphia, PA 1/28 8 p.m. ESPN 2
UCF Orlando, FL 1/31 9 p.m. CBS Sports
L Cincinnati Gampel Pavilion 2/3 12 p.m. ESPN/ESPN 2
W USF Gampel Pavilion 2/7 7 p.m. ESPN U
L Wichita State Wichita, KS 2/10 TBA TBA
W Tulsa XL Center 2/15 7 p.m. ESPN U
W East Carolina Greenville, NC 2/18 3 p.m. ESPNews
L Cincinnati Highland Heights, KY 2/22 7 p.m. ESPN/ESPN 2
W Memphis Gampel Pavilion 2/25 2 p.m./4 p.m. ESPN/ESPN U
W Temple Gampel Pavilion 2/28 7 p.m. CBS Sports
Houston Houston, TX 3/4 4 p.m. CBS Sports

The only away wins that I have as solid UConn wins are ECU, and Tulane. I have all ranked teams as losses (2 WSU, 2 Cincy, Nova). My chart has 15 Wins - 8 losses and 8 toss ups. 5-3 in the toss ups and UConn is 20-11 going into the AAC tournament.
 
NielsisGood said:
Incrementally better than last year, gotta give the young coach and his young team more time, Ollie will turn it around (even though we don't need any turning around).



Inspiring stuff really.
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Sweet melt !

Unhinged.




Going to game tonight? I'll buy you a beer and you can lick your wounds
 
HuskyHawk said:
What is it that is happening now? We have a team that is 6-2, with a loss to the #3 team, in which it was competitive for a half. They also lost a bad game to a decent Arkansas team that is very up and down (beat OU, lost to Houston).

To me, that is what is happening. At this point last year, let us see where we were.
  1. We lost to two cupcakes
  2. We lost two of our 3 best players, plus Diarra was ruled out.
  3. We barely beat a weak LMU team
  4. We lost to OSU and Oregon in Maui
  5. We beat BU 51-49 (this year we won 85-66, with walk ons finishing)
  6. Our two wins over D1 teams going into the Syracuse game were by a total of 5 points.
So we had a skeleton roster with only three guards, one of whom was a freshman. Our shooting guard had to play the wing because our freshman wing couldn't hit the ocean from a boat, and Larrier was gone. Then Jalen hurt his ankle against Houston.

That team took Auburn to OT. Beat Cuse. Nearly beat Ohio State on the road, and managed to win 16 games, going .500 in conference. It won two games in the league tournament. It did that with 8 scholarship players, three of which were freshmen, and one of which was Enoch. Diarra and Carlton already look better than Enoch or Durham did.

You have to be willfully blind or monumentally stupid to think that this team is in worse shape than that team. Or to predict that the win total will be similar to 2016-17. We are already +4 on last year, and the roster is in better shape. I'm sure I'll be labeled an Ollie apologist now, even though I've been loudly critical of him.
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What kind of righteous stand do you think you're taking by comparing this year's team to last year?
 
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NielsisGood said:
What kind of righteous stand do you think you're taking by comparing this year's team to last year?
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What other comparison can possibly be valid when looking at progress?
 
HuskiesAllDay said:
3 seasons + 8 games* figured that would be your only takeaway there.
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PC is not having a better year than us this year.

Their best win is BC (#98) who is worse than Oregon (#55). They lost to the two best teams they played (#23 and #48), who are overall worse than the two best teams we played (#3 and #39).

The simpletons on this board have meltdowns and say they are done with the program until Ollie is fired because we are losing at half to Columbia but PC beat Rider by 4 (ranked 182) and Belmont by 1 (ranked 122). So they beat 2 teams ranked an average of 152 by a combined 5 points, we beat Mommouth and Columbia, ranked an average of 165 by 7 points.

Sorry to use actual facts and analysis to rain on your parade and disprove your narrative.

Also in 2016 PC lost in the same round as UConn but UConn won a conference tournament title, so again another year where Cooley did not outperform Ollie. Again, sorry about the facts man.
 
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PAHusky said:
Millenial here, putting down my avocado toast long enough to reply sans "obtuse disingenuous hedgers". The young coach moniker is tired. KO has had four or so seasons now, it's his team and he's in full control. Part of our youth is KO's recruiting deficiencies and the transfers, which may or may not be at least partially his fault. The other coaches are given time to build their programs because, spoiler alert, they didn't all inherit a fully built program like KO did. Calhoun's last year was a total mess, but the framework was there for KO to step in. He did so incredibly well the first season, and then obviously won the natty. Since then? It's been his recruits, his offensive gameplan, his staff, his roster turnover.

I've only seen one or two posters actually calling for KO to be fired midseason. It's a ludicrous thought. But that doesn't mean that KO should be immune from criticism on a message board after every increasingly sub-par performance. Not sure why you the KO pollyannas keep trying to carve out a safe space for him on the boneyard.

For ripping on the millenials a lot for it some of your are special snowflakes when it comes to KO criticism.
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Great post!!! Now get back to that avocado toast you deserve it.
 
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KSC94 said:
I like CCSU's team a lot this year. Happy for Donyell and his staff.
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Realistically, CCSU will likely finish in the middle of the pack in the NEC this year. But we've certainly turned the corner. Already have wins over East Carolina, Cleveland St, Brown, Coppin St., North Carolina A&T, and ALMOST beating Rutgers. Still one year away from being really good...like good enough to win the conference and knock somebody off in the NCAAs.
 
I mean from what i've read - and what I agree with - is that it's the same thing over an over again - the same problems over and over again. And the clock's just kinda ticking. I don't think KO is a bad dude. I've heard some hearsay stuff behind the scenes - don't know what truth there is to it; but my issue at the end of the day is on the court, and what's been on the court has been the same kinds of players doing the same things wrong repeatedly. For multiple seasons.

And I also think it's just unfair to look at the situation in a total vacuum. Because you have this weird perfect storm where the program is in this rut, but also stuck in the conference realignment cement mixer and you have a team not playing well and stuck against opponents that aren't really BAD per se - but clearly not up to the level of competition we saw in the Big East - but more importantly just not teams we have any real rivalries or history with outside of say... maybe Cincinnati. So it's really just a lot of things coming together at the same time where you have declining revenues that are exacerbated by all of the above that have to put anyone with a pulse on edge a bit.

And truth be told, while I don't want to BE in the American Conference, I'm not bummed that we're IN it right now. I think people are way over the top in criticizing the programs in it. It's been pretty good and teams are absolutely improving. Houston is getting better. SMU got better quickly and seems to be maintaining. Wichita State is a great add for hoops and Cincinnati has been strong. Memphis has been a little all over the place and Tulsa and Temple - while not setting the world on fire, have maintained their status as more or less steady eddies. UCF, USF and Tulane are clearly making the effort even though no one's really had the progress they've wanted them to have on the hoops front at least... on the football front - where the dough is - it's impossible to call UCF and USF bad partners in that regard... and to boot - we haven't carried our weight.

So it's hard for me to sit back and take this kind of elitist attitude that we're too good for the conference and that the conference is ruining US. It's not helping, but everyone in it is doing their best and doing what they need to. We're not. That's on us.

When looking at Ollie - what concerns me is that he has clearly demonstrated an ability to get top talent recruitment wise, but he hasn't been able to keep it, develop it and find the KIND of talent that can succeed in his system. That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day. I don't see a willingness to coach a team where it's at or to what it actually is. He keeps trying to make circles squares. That lack of adaptability scares me. But it also exacerbates some of the 'attitude' issues people constantly complain about. Truth be told - it's hard to keep a positive attitude and max effort when the situation you're in clearly isn't helpful to you. It's hard for me to fault the kids for that.

What I also don't like about the system so to speak - is that it's kind of faulty and exclusionary to a point. If you're an elite big - why come to UConn? If everything is going to be based off of guard creativity and penetration and swing-ish 2/3/4's that can dribble and create - where do you really fall in that equation? People complain about our ability to develop bigs, but they're not a part of the sauce in this system so to speak - so the type of talent we're going to attract in that regard is going to be what it is.

And what the kicker is for me - and I really DO believe this with every fiber of my being - is that I feel like Ollie's one of those guys who is that anomaly that could be a sage in an NBA setting - and just never get one foot in front of the other as a college coach. Get some self motivated, uniquely talented types like you find in the NBA - and you'll have a lot of succes. Sometimes its the coaches that kind of get out of the way and let players create are the best in the modern pro game. Not sure it's a fit for college as the kids just aren't developed enough or have IQ's on the court that can play to that as it's so antithetical to what we see in AAU, etc.

And one behind the scenes knock I hear a lot about Kevin is that he's more interested in being 'one of the boys' so to speak rather than a coach - and while that's not necessarily a fault - it's that you can't really do that at the college level. One guy I talked to explained it to me that Kevin was more like a grizzled NBA vet taking young players under his wing as opposed to being Dad, basically. And I could see that being something. Again - I'm not sure he's a bad coach, he just might be a really bad fit for this level, that's all.

I'm all for giving him the season. He earned that right winning a national title, he's been the tournament twice, probably would have been three times had we not been banned. He's been good enough to warrant the season to me. But if this season turns into anything like last year - it's probably time to make a change. That's where i'm at. I'm in the 'he's out as of now, but let's see what he can do with the season and I can totally reconsider that position.'...
 
Towney007 said:
What I also don't like about the system so to speak - is that it's kind of faulty and exclusionary to a point. If you're an elite big - why come to UConn? If everything is going to be based off of guard creativity and penetration and swing-ish 2/3/4's that can dribble and create - where do you really fall in that equation? People complain about our ability to develop bigs, but they're not a part of the sauce in this system so to speak - so the type of talent we're going to attract in that regard is going to be what it is.
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A true catch 22. Shouldn't change our system to highlights bigs if our bigs are bad and it won't help us win this year, but we can't recruit solid bigs because they see our system doesn't develop bigs.

If we stick with Ollie, we have to break out of the vicious cycle somehow, either by convincing some can't miss big or developing the ones we have. Zach Brown fell through, unfortunately. I've got hope for Carlton. Let's hope Ollie doesn't fail him.
 
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Towney007 said:
I mean from what i've read - and what I agree with - is that it's the same thing over an over again - the same problems over and over again. And the clock's just kinda ticking. I don't think KO is a bad dude. I've heard some hearsay stuff behind the scenes - don't know what truth there is to it; but my issue at the end of the day is on the court, and what's been on the court has been the same kinds of players doing the same things wrong repeatedly. For multiple seasons.

And I also think it's just unfair to look at the situation in a total vacuum. Because you have this weird perfect storm where the program is in this rut, but also stuck in the conference realignment cement mixer and you have a team not playing well and stuck against opponents that aren't really BAD per se - but clearly not up to the level of competition we saw in the Big East - but more importantly just not teams we have any real rivalries or history with outside of say... maybe Cincinnati. So it's really just a lot of things coming together at the same time where you have declining revenues that are exacerbated by all of the above that have to put anyone with a pulse on edge a bit.

And truth be told, while I don't want to BE in the American Conference, I'm not bummed that we're IN it right now. I think people are way over the top in criticizing the programs in it. It's been pretty good and teams are absolutely improving. Houston is getting better. SMU got better quickly and seems to be maintaining. Wichita State is a great add for hoops and Cincinnati has been strong. Memphis has been a little all over the place and Tulsa and Temple - while not setting the world on fire, have maintained their status as more or less steady eddies. UCF, USF and Tulane are clearly making the effort even though no one's really had the progress they've wanted them to have on the hoops front at least... on the football front - where the dough is - it's impossible to call UCF and USF bad partners in that regard... and to boot - we haven't carried our weight.

So it's hard for me to sit back and take this kind of elitist attitude that we're too good for the conference and that the conference is ruining US. It's not helping, but everyone in it is doing their best and doing what they need to. We're not. That's on us.

When looking at Ollie - what concerns me is that he has clearly demonstrated an ability to get top talent recruitment wise, but he hasn't been able to keep it, develop it and find the KIND of talent that can succeed in his system. That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day. I don't see a willingness to coach a team where it's at or to what it actually is. He keeps trying to make circles squares. That lack of adaptability scares me. But it also exacerbates some of the 'attitude' issues people constantly complain about. Truth be told - it's hard to keep a positive attitude and max effort when the situation you're in clearly isn't helpful to you. It's hard for me to fault the kids for that.

What I also don't like about the system so to speak - is that it's kind of faulty and exclusionary to a point. If you're an elite big - why come to UConn? If everything is going to be based off of guard creativity and penetration and swing-ish 2/3/4's that can dribble and create - where do you really fall in that equation? People complain about our ability to develop bigs, but they're not a part of the sauce in this system so to speak - so the type of talent we're going to attract in that regard is going to be what it is.

And what the kicker is for me - and I really DO believe this with every fiber of my being - is that I feel like Ollie's one of those guys who is that anomaly that could be a sage in an NBA setting - and just never get one foot in front of the other as a college coach. Get some self motivated, uniquely talented types like you find in the NBA - and you'll have a lot of succes. Sometimes its the coaches that kind of get out of the way and let players create are the best in the modern pro game. Not sure it's a fit for college as the kids just aren't developed enough or have IQ's on the court that can play to that as it's so antithetical to what we see in AAU, etc.

And one behind the scenes knock I hear a lot about Kevin is that he's more interested in being 'one of the boys' so to speak rather than a coach - and while that's not necessarily a fault - it's that you can't really do that at the college level. One guy I talked to explained it to me that Kevin was more like a grizzled NBA vet taking young players under his wing as opposed to being Dad, basically. And I could see that being something. Again - I'm not sure he's a bad coach, he just might be a really bad fit for this level, that's all.

I'm all for giving him the season. He earned that right winning a national title, he's been the tournament twice, probably would have been three times had we not been banned. He's been good enough to warrant the season to me. But if this season turns into anything like last year - it's probably time to make a change. That's where i'm at. I'm in the 'he's out as of now, but let's see what he can do with the season and I can totally reconsider that position.'...
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very good post. really well said. agree with all of it.

The bold is what sticks out to me and something I have been saying on here over and over the last few years. (and something that concerns me regarding his ability to turn things around).

What is Kevin Ollie's system?

As someone who follows the program closely, I still have no idea after 5+ years. You hear things like "position less" basketball, but all that has really gotten us is some tweeners who aren't overly effective at any position. Either he hasn't been getting the right types of players for his system, or he doesn't know how to use them when they get here. I suspect its the latter, as we have had some talented (albeit flawed) kids here the last few years, who have only been able to show brief flashes of reaching their potential, only to return to inconsistency and cause general frustration.

We have not been very good on the offensive end the last few years, and appear to be defensive oriented. But is this by design?

Our d numbers have never been that great (kenpom adj d in the 50's is our best under Ollie), and our lack of toughness down low and rebounding have rendered this "system" ineffective. And Ollie always talks about getting out in transition and using our quickness and athleticism, which do not support this philosophy either.

All of this affects recruiting and scouting and so on and I really think is a major problem we are facing. Wisconsin knows exactly how they want to play and they find the right guys to play that way. Same Cuse, Villanova and so on. The Villanova model is one that it appears KO wants to try to run with guard oriented offense, and a rotation of versatile and athletic wings and bigs. And we have had players that would fit playing this way (maybe not quite as talented), but we haven't been successful at it.

We seem to be stuck playing a style of basketball that we either don't want to play or are playing by design and just aren't very good at it. I think its the former which is concerning.
 
mauconnfan said:
Are they actually fans if they aren't fans anymore?
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They're still fans but their interest is declining. If you're not a diehard this isn't the most exciting product out there. These are more the "casual fan" that help fill seats as seen this year. I appreciate all UConn fan/supporter regardless the level. No need to turn them away. I took my son and 2 of his buddies to XL last game. I want to create more fans not tell people not to watch.
 
RJScootin said:
They're still fans but their interest is declining. If you're not a diehard this isn't the most exciting product out there. These are more the "casual fan" that help fill seats as seen this year. I appreciate all UConn fan/supporter regardless the level. No need to turn them away. I took my son and 2 of his buddies to XL last game. I want to create more fans not tell people not to watch.
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Sorry but you are not a fan if your interest can decline. I can accept all of these people whining about KO, the league etc etc but at least that's because they are passionate, most of them at least. If you jumped on because they were winning and now your interest has waned because they aren't that for now, please stay away no reason to come back, not at all a fan.

I appreciate you taking your son and his buddies and hopefully they can hop on and at some point soon are rewarded with a reasonable facsimile of all of our expectations.
 
Dream Jobbed 2.0 said:
Carwash
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I read this and thought "what?" and then looked at the handle of quoted poster and literally lol'd.

thumbs-up_small.png
 
Again, won’t win 16.. ok, I’ll give, 17 and that’s generous..
 
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I have us going about 18-13 with our traditional march to the conference tournament championship before losing and finishing 21-14, good for an NIT berth. That won't be good enough for the program.
 
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