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UConn - ND post game (merged)

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After all Caroline's issues, I don't think Jana should be out there until she's fully right. We have some time before the tournaments so let her brain fully heal. She must be making progress since she is now able to be on the bench.
 
First quarter was sloppy by Uconn but then they turned it on.ND is not a good team this year with all the players missing from last year but HH is a 1st team AA. I thought it was a class act by HH reaching out to KK to help her up after KK fell down
Watching games over the weekend UCLA could be the biggest test for Uconn if they meet more than Texas or S.C. with their height and addition of Kneepkens are a better team than last year..Uconn needs Williams to be more aggressive on the boards..I think that is the only slight weakness the team has ..the 5 spot..and although the team plays great with S.S. playing there that could be trouble with the other "3" teams if/when Uconn plays them..Is Jana and Williams enough to battle those teams ?
 
Cuango said:
She will get her shot back. Meanwhile, she is turning into a very good defender and when the three is not falling, she contributes in other ways. She will be fine.
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Exactly! I’m not worried about Azzi at all. She has the complete package.
La princesa asesina! Imagine if UCONN shot their season percentage from 3?
Cuango said:
She will get her shot back. Meanwhile, she is turning into a very good defender and when the three is not falling, she contributes in other ways. She will be fine.
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Exactly! I’m not worried about Azzi at all, either. She has the complete package.
La princesa asesina!

Imagine if UCONN shot near 40% from 3 last night, which is their season average to date? Whoa! I’m not mad at 6/24. They were good shots, but they just weren’t dropping.
 
meyers7 said:
That's the problem, we don't know that yet. The best teams in WBB haven't played UCONN yet (nor will they until E8 or FF). The best team we've played was Michigan, currently ranked 7th, (haven't played 2, 3, 4) and we barely beat them by 3. Granted, I think we've gotten better since then, but haven't played anyone as good (or better) yet to really know how good we are now.

Yes ND WAS ranked in top 25, but they're not now....because they are not that good. They were obviously over ranked. They may get better and make their way back into the Top 25, but they were not a top 25 team yesterday when we played them. (and it showed)

We look good, but we really haven't played any top teams ....other than Michigan....who we barely beat. And UCLA, S. Carolina, Texas are quite a bit better than Michigan. 5

TN seems to be a better team than ND. Hopefully, we can do the same thing against them. But they are still not UCLA, S. Carolina, Texas.

We should find out eventually (FF/E8), but we just don't know yet.
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So here’s my question for you. What exactly constitutes a “good team?” I mentioned UConn thumping UCLA & SC twice, including in Columbia, last season. Were those teams good teams?

As for this season, you imply that TX, UCLA, SC & maybe MI are good teams. What about Louisville & Iowa who are both hanging around the top 10?
 
The narrative that Notre Dame has no reliable scoring options other than Hannah Hidalgo is simply false, albeit one that quite a few Irish fans continue to rationalize given the plight of their team this season.

This is not a knock on Hannah Hidalgo. She is an elite scorer. This is more of indictment of the Irish faithful who suggest the problem is with the lack of quality support players around Hidalgo, rather than a problem of a flawed offensive strategy.

The actual data says that the other Irish players have produced results that suggest they can/should be used differently. To wit:
  • Cass Prosper - career high 16.4 ppg; career high 52.3 FG% (6.6 above previous best); career high 41.4 3P% (nine above previous best)
  • Iyana Moore - career high 41.0 3P% (6.6 above previous best)
  • Malaya Cowles - career high 9.5 ppg; 54.0 FG% (fourth straight year above 54%)
  • Vanessa De Jesus - career high 9.4 ppg; career high 41.6 3P% (5.5 above previous year)
  • Gisela Sanchez - career highs in FG% (52.9%) and 3P% (43.8%) around a career high 7.7 ppg.

In other words, the FG and 3P% percentages shown in bold would be coveted at any program, and indicate the other Irish rotational players should be shooting more in ways that take advantage of their strengths.

From a team make-up perspective, the Irish have a lot of similarities to Vanderbilt. I invite folks to compare both programs rotational players and how the programs incorporate those players' strengths. Each team structures their offense around an elite, quick, AA guard incorporating position players of similar size. Both programs rotational players have comparable shooting percentages. And yet the programs are experiencing vastly different results and moving in different directions.
 
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DEpup said:
After all Caroline's issues, I don't think Jana should be out there until she's fully right. We have some time before the tournaments so let her brain fully heal. She must be making progress since she is now able to be on the bench.
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on the bench ... and providing chest bumps!
 
oldude said:
It’s a semantic argument. Does getting into the NCAA tournament as an “at large” team make you a good team. ND will almost certainly do so. I would say that makes you a good team. I guess you have much higher standards.

But again, ND was a top-25 team all season until just yesterday, after losing to Louisville last week. Now if ND ends up losing 10+ games and fails to make it to the Big Dance, then I might agree with you. Otherwise, I would wait and see.

By the way, last year in the NCAA tournament UConn trounced everyone they played, including UCLA & SC in the FF by margins similar to what they beat ND by yesterday. Would you also suggest that those teams were not “good teams?”

We are back to a time when UConn is bad for WBB. There is UConn and everyone else. Some of the best teams in WBB are getting embarrassed by the Huskies. That doesn’t mean they are not good. It simply means they are not good enough to compete with UConn.
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Sorry but there is more than one really good team, not just UCONN. Take a look at what UCLA is doing with the two additional scorers they have added. In as recent game or two all 5 starters scored in dbl figures and some of there starters from last year are not even starting. The biggest thing we have over them is that Close is their HC and that is worth 10-15 points for us when compared to our HC.. Also SC, LSU and TX make this a 5 horse race.
 
Bills Fan said:
Sorry but there is more than one really good team, not just UCONN. Take a look at what UCLA is doing with the two additional scorers they have added. In as recent game or two all 5 starters scored in dbl figures and some of there starters from last year are not even starting. The biggest thing we have over them is that Close is their HC and that is worth 10-15 points for us when compared to our HC.. Also SC, LSU and TX make this a 5 horse race.
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I’m not suggesting that there are not other good teams. I’m merely making an academic argument trying to uncover what exactly constitutes a good team. As I have indicated, I believe ND is a good team. But like most other teams, the Irish are just not competitive vs UConn.
 
oldude said:
So here’s my question for you. What exactly constitutes a “good team?” I mentioned UConn thumping UCLA & SC twice, including in Columbia, last season. Were those teams good teams?

As for this season, you imply that TX, UCLA, SC & maybe MI are good teams. What about Louisville & Iowa who are both hanging around the top 10?
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Well last years teams really don't matter since we're talking about this year. But sure they were good. Everything just clicked at the right time for UCONN last year. Bueckers was Bueckers, Fudd finally got healthy and got rid of the rust, and Strong became Strong. All at the right time. Tough to beat that. But that is what happened. This year, nothing like that has happened yet. We've haven't clicked against a really good team because we haven't played (other than Michigan - which we didn't really click against) a really good team.

Yeah, Louisville and Iowa are pretty good teams. The point is ND is not a very good team this year. It's an off year for them. Maybe they'll get better, but right now, they aren't a good team (one that can trouble UCONN).

That's a decent definition, one that can trouble UCONN, not one that loses to Ole Miss, GT, Duke. A team that is highly ranked, not a team that is not ranked at all. Teams with 0 to a couple losses. and that loss(s) is(are) to other good teams. Not a team with 6 losses. A team that is top of their conference table. Not a team that sits mid table (in the ACC which isn't all that strong this year either).

It would seem your idea of a good team is very, very different than mine.

Like they say....the table doesn't lie.
 
YKCornelius said:
The narrative that Notre Dame has no reliable scoring options other than Hannah Hidalgo is simply false, albeit one that quite a few Irish fans continue to rationalize given the plight of their team this season.

This is not a knock on Hannah Hidalgo. She is an elite scorer. This is more of indictment of the Irish faithful who suggest the problem is with the lack of quality support players around Hidalgo, rather than a problem of a flawed offensive strategy.

The actual data says that the other Irish players have produced results that suggest they can/should be used differently. To wit:
  • Cass Prosper - career high 16.4 ppg; career high 52.3 FG% (6.6 above previous best); career high 41.4 3P% (nine above previous best)
  • Iyana Moore - career high 41.0 3P% (6.6 above previous best)
  • Malaya Cowles - career high 9.5 ppg; 54.0 FG% (fourth straight year above 54%)
  • Vanessa De Jesus - career high 9.4 ppg; career high 41.6 3P% (5.5 above previous year)
  • Gisela Sanchez - career highs in FG% (52.9%) and 3P% (43.8%) around a career high 7.7 ppg.

In other words, the FG and 3P% percentages shown in bold would be coveted at any program, and indicate the other Irish rotational players should be shooting more in ways that take advantage of their strengths.

From a team make-up perspective, the Irish have a lot of similarities to Vanderbilt. I invite folks to compare both programs rotational players and how the programs incorporate those players' strengths. Each team structures their offense around an elite, quick, AA guard incorporating position players of similar size. Both programs rotational players have comparable shooting percentages. And yet the programs are experiencing vastly different results and moving in different directions.
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I sort of agree. Notre Dame is always going to be tough for us because they are our rivalry, know each other, and play a similar game. Realistically, a healthy Bransford would make them a top 15 program with their history. I'd rather say that second half of basketball could make even the top teams look challenged. That was a machine like 20 minutes.
 
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GetReal2day said:
each of her threes just missed. She would be more effective with a drive then pull up jumper. She tries to go all the way to the rim most every time. Even with her growing pains, I feel the team is much better on OF and DF with her in and Serah out.
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i was more concerned by the 4 TOs than the threes. she'll improve, she's a freshman with lottery pick upside.
 
BBallF said:
Strongly disagree about Kayleigh. She just put it together in this game. What more do you want from her? 9 points, 3 assists, a steal, a rebound and no turnovers in 19 minutes and a good leadership game for the offense and a solid defensive effort against HH. We are so powerful as a team because of players like Kayleigh, Blanca, Jana and Allie.
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K9 is a "dog"! In addition to what BBallF noted above: Kaleigh was
2/3 from beyond the arc, 1/1 from the foul line, and just "wonderful"
to behold ALL OVER THE HARDWOOD! NICE!
 
No love for Vanderbilt? They will be in the mix for a Final Four spot with this year’s team.
Bills Fan said:
Sorry but there is more than one really good team, not just UCONN. Take a look at what UCLA is doing with the two additional scorers they have added. In as recent game or two all 5 starters scored in dbl figures and some of there starters from last year are not even starting. The biggest thing we have over them is that Close is their HC and that is worth 10-15 points for us when compared to our HC.. Also SC, LSU and TX make this a 5 horse race.
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UConn vs notre dame promoted as two of the best players in the country. Maybe so, but neither one of them was Hidalgo. Granted the defense geared toward stopping her, but did not out play Sarah, Azzi or KK.
 
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All these discussions about not playing a top 4 team. First of all not one team plays defense and has the depth to play defense that UConn has. No team has an Azzi and Sarah either who are go to players. IMO UCLA is big and slow. Texas does not have a good 3 pt game. Both weaknesses. SC is not operating insink right now. LSU, well they still have a ways to go. We will see what happens over the next few weeks and see if anything changes.

UConn is so far ahead of everybody else its silly. I continue to say the only way this UConn team gets beat is alot of key players in foul trouble or key injuries. UConns defense eats up everybody theyve played and they will do that no matter who they face. The top 4 teams dont have the quickness, cohesiveness, chemistry to hang with UConn. IMO this is Genos greatest defensive team ever and because of their defense they wont lose.
 
HuskyNan said:
I don’t know if anyone else noticed but late in the fourth quarter, Ash found herself guarding Gisela Sanchez in the paint. Sanchez gave Ash several sharp jabs with her elbow and due to the height difference, I think it caught Ash in a sensitive spot. FWIW, Ash jabbed back but she was outmatched.

Then Geno subs Ash out for Serah, who had a few words for Sanchez. Serah got a little spicy and I love it. The Huskies have each others’ backs
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Great catch, Nan, I was reasonably sure that's why Sareh got into the tiff with the ND center, but the FOX announcers didn't mention it. I was sure that Serah's actions were because the ND center was roughhousing Ash...
 
YKCornelius said:
Bone Dog, what do you mean by "She just seems to intent on succeeding to fail"? As an educator, I am stunned that you might think that there is something wrong with a team-focused player who continues to push her envelope and does not get discouraged whenever her efforts do not meet with intended success. She continues to play and grow inside the UConn system which is EXACTLY what she needs to be doing.

"Intent on succeeding to fail" sounds waaaaaay off-base. Please explain or clarify.
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Typo on my part -- damn Otto-correct -- should have been "too intent." I was trying to say that she is really intense and aiming very high. Kids like her tend to achieve great things, given time..
 
tchalla1 said:
Great catch, Nan, I was reasonably sure that's why Sareh got into the tiff with the ND center, but the FOX announcers didn't mention it. I was sure that Serah's actions were because the ND center was roughhousing Ash...
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I rewatched the second half to try to understand what was going on. It looked like Sanchez had been grabbing Serah earlier in the game on a couple different possessions and got whistled for it once. Somewhat later she elbowed Ash, and there was a bit of grabbing going on there too, which seemed odd to me. Why would the offensive player want to grab the defensive player? Ash smacked her hand away a couple times, and then the elbow happened. Then Serah came back into the game and the final confrontation happened, also based on more grabby fouling. I don't know what was said between them, but Serah looked pretty pissed, and Sanchez seems to be a volatile personality, much more so than Serah. Maybe she was on edge because they were losing so badly at that point.

I couldn't follow what the refs decided. The announcers seemed to suggest a double technical but the camera work didn't clarify it as it happened so fast. I have a feeling Maj Forsberg wanted a quick resolution rather than an extended video review, which was probably wise. Then Serah shot free throws.
 
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tchalla1 said:
Great catch, Nan, I was reasonably sure that's why Sareh got into the tiff with the ND center, but the FOX announcers didn't mention it. I was sure that Serah's actions were because the ND center was roughhousing Ash...
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The announcers didn't mention it because they were too busy conversing as though they were waiting for their order to arrive.
 
Bone Dog said:
I rewatched the second half to try to understand what was going on. It looked like Sanchez had been grabbing Serah earlier in the game on a couple different possessions and got whistled for it once. Somewhat later she elbowed Ash, and there was a bit of grabbing going on there too, which seemed odd to me. Why would the offensive player want to grab the defensive player? Ash smacked her hand away a couple times, and then the elbow happened. Then Serah came back into the game and the final confrontation happened, also based on more grabby fouling. I don't know what was said between them, but Serah looked pretty pissed, and Sanchez seems to be a volatile personality, much more so than Serah. Maybe she was on edge because they were losing so badly at that point.

I couldn't follow what the refs decided. The announcers seemed to suggest a double technical but the camera work didn't clarify it as it happened so fast. I have a feeling Maj Forsberg wanted a quick resolution rather than an extended video review, which was probably wise. Then Serah shot free throws.
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According to the Play By Play and what I observed when I watched the game, Sanchez was called for a foul before the scuffle. Serah was awarded two FTs. They both were given technicals, no FTs awarded, because of the scuffle.
 
meyers7 said:
They are not a bad team, like a Butler or BC. They are a rival team, so it's great to beat them, badly. But they are not that good this year.
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oldude said:
Some of the best teams in WBB are getting embarrassed by the Huskies. That doesn’t mean they are not good.
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I didn't read @meyers7 as saying Notre Dame is not good because UConn beat them. He said they are not currently ranked and that they are not as good as usual this year. Both of those claims are facts . . . not opinions . . . in my opinion.

However, I agree that "good" in the abstract is semantically subjective. Any team with more wins than losses could be considered good, which means there are about 180 good teams in DI WCBB. Not worth quibbling about.

I think the fighting issue is whether UConn's large MOV over Notre Dame is evidence that UConn will be an unstoppable juggernaut against the current AP 2-6 or whether it is repetitive non-evidence of that outcome. How much evidentiary weight does or should the Notre Dame MOV carry regarding the issue?
 
Gael said:
I didn't read @meyers7 as saying Notre Dame is not good because UConn beat them. He said they are not currently ranked and that they are not as good as usual this year. Both of those claims are facts . . . not opinions . . . in my opinion.

However, I agree that "good" in the abstract is semantically subjective. Any team with more wins than losses could be considered good, which means there are about 180 good teams in DI WCBB. Not worth quibbling about.

I think the fighting issue is whether UConn's large MOV over Notre Dame is evidence that UConn will be an unstoppable juggernaut against the current AP 2-6 or whether it is repetitive non-evidence of that outcome. How much evidentiary weight does or should the Notre Dame MOV carry regarding the issue?
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Gael, I am not going to repost the entire back and forth between myself and Meyers, which is several posts long. But the specific comment that I first responded to was, “ND is NOT a good team.” Post #153
 
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