UConn is academically superior to most of the B10 | Page 2 | The Boneyard

UConn is academically superior to most of the B10

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Don't pay any attention to academics, or at least, the perception fueled by subjective ratings. The league doesn't care about that (too much).

If you want to boil it down to academics, then look at research dollars. That's what the Big Ten cares about because with the CIC's resource-sharing, they care about schools that take research seriously. All the talk about ACT/SAT scores, admissions selectivity and where schools rate in a pointless USWNR algorithm is window dressing.

Can you make money for the league? Can your research prowess help in cooperation with the CIC? Will you make a good athletic partner and sensible rival to increase branding and visibility? Those are the questions the Big Ten is interested in more than what the 25 percentile SAT/math score is. Make no mistake, the Big Ten is not interested in commuter schools or liberal arts colleges... it wants large, land-grant, flagship institutions. But I think people are focusing on the wrong aspects.
 
Not that it matters (at all) now, but I'd be curious to see how Rutgers and Maryland stack up against UConn and their new B1G brethern?
 
buggsy said:
According to Forbes Top Academic Colleges
http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/

Maryland - #73
Rutgers - #125
UCONN - #140
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please look at the other thread where I responded. Also, please explain to me Forbes' ranking system. It doesn't seem to make much sense. For example, Harvard is #8. It seems to me this list is specifically put together to create controversy and get as many page views as possible. No serious publication that is actually trying to accurately rank colleges would have Harvard out of the top 3 or 4. period. Explain University of Illinois at 53 and University of Pittsburgh at 193. Find the metrics that are important to any college student that would make those two schools that far apart. At best this list is made to have a lot of random disparities in order to draw page views and at worst it is complete trash.
 
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Don't let the Rutrolls take your eyes off the prize. These are sports conferences and sports are about winning. UConn won more NCAA titles in the last week than Rutgers have in their entire history.
 
Sportsman5 said:
please look at the other thread where I responded. Also, please explain to me Forbes' ranking system. It doesn't seem to make much sense. For example, Harvard is #8. It seems to me this list is specifically put together to create controversy and get as many page views as possible. No serious publication that is actually trying to accurately rank colleges would have Harvard out of the top 3 or 4. period. Explain University of Illinois at 53 and University of Pittsburgh at 193. Find the metrics that are important to any college student that would make those two schools that far apart. At best this list is made to have a lot of random disparities in order to draw page views and at worst it is complete trash.
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Most rankings are already trash because they're based on a selection bias, namely they're heavily fueled not by the quality of education you receive, but rather the selectivity of admissions. USWNR is absolutely no exception, and in fact, are a huge culprit when it comes to this methodology. For a student looking at rankings of universities, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: the institution is deemed better because a qualified student is good enough to get in when in reality, it tell us nothing about what education they'll receive.

It you truly wanted to judge an institution, it should be by its academic curriculum, not the company it keeps. SAT/ACT scores; admission percentage and number of bachelor's degrees awarded doesn't seem like a very good measure of an institution's education, yet that's the data most rankings heavily rely upon to come up with a score.
 
Sportsman5 said:
please look at the other thread where I responded. Also, please explain to me Forbes' ranking system. It doesn't seem to make much sense. For example, Harvard is #8. It seems to me this list is specifically put together to create controversy and get as many page views as possible. No serious publication that is actually trying to accurately rank colleges would have Harvard out of the top 3 or 4. period. Explain University of Illinois at 53 and University of Pittsburgh at 193. Find the metrics that are important to any college student that would make those two schools that far apart. At best this list is made to have a lot of random disparities in order to draw page views and at worst it is complete trash.
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All rankings of colleges based on academics are worthless. But in 3 out of 4 of them, Rutgers is ranked higher.

Funny, how you don't have a problem with the one that has UCONN slightly ahead.
 
kyleslamb said:
Most rankings are already trash because they're based on a selection bias, namely they're heavily fueled not by the quality of education you receive, but rather the selectivity of admissions. USWNR is absolutely no exception, and in fact, are a huge culprit when it comes to this methodology. For a student looking at rankings of universities, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: the institution is deemed better because a qualified student is good enough to get in when in reality, it tell us nothing about what education they'll receive.

It you truly wanted to judge an institution, it should be by its academic curriculum, not the company it keeps. SAT/ACT scores; admission percentage and number of bachelor's degrees awarded doesn't seem like a very good measure of an institution's education, yet that's the data most rankings heavily rely upon to come up with a score.
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well if students (and in many cases the parents) do extensive research into many different schools (many students consider 10 or more these days) and decide to apply to attend one university at a much higher rate than another, than that at least says something about different schools.

Have you looked at the break down of U.S. news and world report ranking system? If you had you would know that standardized tests scores and admission rates only account for 9.375% of the total score. So they are looking way beyond those types of stats. Bachelor degrees awarded have 0% weight.
 
buggsy said:
All rankings of colleges based on academics are worthless. But in 3 out of 4 of them, Rutgers is ranked higher.

Funny, how you don't have a problem with the one that has UCONN slightly ahead.
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I explained how some are better than others in the other thread and specifically asked you to read it. Please do so. U.S. news and world report is used by many as the gold standard and is among the top few that serious college students use as a source. It is very thorough and considers many different factors. Forbes is just a random list created to maximize views of it. Please explain to me the methodology behind these other 3 publications which supposedly rank UConn below just about every school in the country.
 
Sportsman5 said:
well if students (and in many cases the parents) do extensive research into many different schools (many students consider 10 or more these days) and decide to apply to attend one university at a much higher rate than another, than that at least says something about different schools.

Have you looked at the break down of U.S. news and world report ranking system? If you had you would know that standardized tests scores and admission rates only account for 9.375% of the total score. So they are looking way beyond those types of stats. Bachelor degrees awarded have 0% weight.
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That's not entirely accurate. Selectivity comprises 13 percent of the score. However, what you're ignoring is that almost a quarter is "reputation" which is a subjective polling of people, which inherently are going to be suffering from same selectivity bias due to selectivity. Second, another quarter of the score is retention. That's another bias in the system because better students are more likely to stick around for a second year, especially if they're paying larger tuition (at a more prestigious school). Fact of the matter is that well over half the ranking is directly or indirectly influenced by selectivity.

Either way, the whole ranking thing is just a big potpourri of subjective goo. There's no rhyme or reason to it. The USWNR rankings are worthless, as are most college ranking systems.
 
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I believe the Forbes list is very concerned with value, the cost to a student for the quality of education he receives. USNWR just evaluates the quality of the education.
 
kyleslamb said:
That's not entirely accurate. Selectivity comprises 13 percent of the score. However, what you're ignoring is that almost a quarter is "reputation" which is a subjective polling of people, which inherently are going to be suffering from same selectivity bias due to selectivity. Second, another quarter of the score is retention. That's another bias in the system because better students are more likely to stick around for a second year, especially if they're paying larger tuition (at a more prestigious school). Fact of the matter is that well over half the ranking is directly or indirectly influenced by selectivity.

Either way, the whole ranking thing is just a big potpourri of subjective goo. There's no rhyme or reason to it. The USWNR rankings are worthless, as are most college ranking systems.
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So you think the assessment of a university by guidance counselors should have no weight? their job is to assess schools and find good fits for students. You don't think that graduation rate should have a large weight??? being surrounded by academically focused students and having the resources to accomplish getting a degree is massively important. And yes freshman year retention rates shows a lot about whether or not students 1) enjoy their time at school 2) are dedicated to getting an education 3) feel like they are getting value from that university.

You can ignore rankings if you 1) do not care what the perceived value of your education is to employers or grad schools 2) do not care about being surrounded by academically inclined peers. It's not a rhetorical question because some people do not plan to go into competitive fields/ grad programs or don't want to try to get the most prestigious jobs in their field. that is perfectly fine. However, if you plan to go into a very competitive field like finance, science, or technology and want to get into the best grad programs and apply to the most competitive companies, than going to the highest ranking and most prestigious college possible will help you. In some cases it will help you a little bit and in other cases it can mean the difference between success and failure.

Are the rankings going to be perfectly accurate for what every high school student values most in a university? no, but it is a very good guideline that highlights the most important points. It gives a comprehensive assessment and besides a school here or there seems to give a fair and accurate ranking. Maybe Stanford should be ahead of Princeton. Or Florida should be ahead of Wisconsin, but they are very close in ranking. That is why a student will pick a group of schools that have similar ranking and research the strength of each potential field of study, weigh the location of the school, size of the school etc. in making a decision.
 
Sportsman5 said:
please look at the other thread where I responded. Also, please explain to me Forbes' ranking system. It doesn't seem to make much sense. For example, Harvard is #8. It seems to me this list is specifically put together to create controversy and get as many page views as possible. No serious publication that is actually trying to accurately rank colleges would have Harvard out of the top 3 or 4. period. Explain University of Illinois at 53 and University of Pittsburgh at 193. Find the metrics that are important to any college student that would make those two schools that far apart. At best this list is made to have a lot of random disparities in order to draw page views and at worst it is complete trash.
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Looking at the Forbes list briefly, I see Williams, Pomona, Swarthmore, West Point, Amherst, etc. included. The are great colleges, no question; but, they are small, elite liberal arts college and not major research universities like Harvard, Stanford, etc. I think West Point is in its own category with Annapolis and the other service academies. This, this list is not an apples to apples comparison.
 
Palatine said:
Using the ranking of US News and World Report, UConn would be 7th of the 14 B10 teams. For non math majors that's the top half.

The teams ahead of us. NW #12, Michigan #28, PSU #37, Illinois #41 (tie), Wiscy #41 (tie), OSU #52, UConn checks in at #57.

So next time you're on a board and some genius tells you that UConn is a bad academic fit for the B10, they are objectively wrong.
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Foremost, I'm a BIG fan who wants UConn, so I don't give much to the AAU argument & certainly take US News Rankings with a grain of salt.

But let me be clear here, UConn may outperform my alma mater on the undergraduate front (Minnesota), but try looking a the other US News Rankings, in fact I'd argue the more important one: Graduate School Rankings.

UConn has at least 3 ranked top 25 Graduate programs. Granted a payment and membership to these rankings will reveal a few more for UConn:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...ersity-of-connecticut-129020/overall-rankings

Now look at Minnesota, 51, yes 51 top 25 programs & again a paid membership will only reveal more:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...minnesota-twin-cities-174066/overall-rankings

When the "bread and butter" importance of graduate schools becomes part of a universities overall standing, Minnesota suddenly becomes an alpha dog and surpasses most of its fellow BIG members & the rest of the research institutions landscape.

I think the BIG's academic angle has been straightforward for decades on putting greater emphasis on research and real-world applicability. The ACC, for example - as some have factually pointed out on here, outperforms the BIG in undergraduate rankings (US News), but the BIG not only closes the gap via Graduate Schools strength, it nearly laps the ACC.

Regardless, all for UConn to the BIG, and I've been making your case on here, other boards, and through official documentation to the BIG offices for the past year.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
I do not remember the exact numbers; but, I believe the ACC is very top heavy in the US News ranking; but; the B1G overall average is better.
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See my post on the value of the other US News Rankings - GRADUATE SCHOOLS.
 
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Gfunk said:
Foremost, I'm a BIG fan who wants UConn, so I don't give much to the AAU argument & certainly take US News Rankings with a grain of salt.

But let me be clear here, UConn may outperform my alma mater on the undergraduate front (Minnesota), but try looking a the other US News Rankings, in fact I'd argue the more important one: Graduate School Rankings.

UConn has at least 3 ranked top 25 Graduate programs. Granted a payment and membership to these rankings will reveal a few more for UConn:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...ersity-of-connecticut-129020/overall-rankings

Now look at Minnesota, 51, yes 51 top 25 programs & again a paid membership will only reveal more:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...minnesota-twin-cities-174066/overall-rankings

When the "bread and butter" importance of graduate schools becomes part of a universities overall standing, Minnesota suddenly becomes an alpha dog and surpasses most of its fellow BIG members & the rest of the research institutions landscape.

I think the BIG's academic angle has been straightforward for decades on putting greater emphasis on research and real-world applicability. The ACC, for example - as some have factually pointed out on here, outperforms the BIG in undergraduate rankings (US News), but the BIG not only closes the gap via Graduate Schools strength, it nearly laps the ACC.

Regardless, all for UConn to the BIG, and I've been making your case on here, other boards, and through official documentation to the BIG offices for the past year.
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This makes a lot of sense. Research heavy institutions will have a lot of top grad school programs because opportunities for grant money attracts top professors and top professors + a lot of research opportunity attracts top grad students. UConn has done a tremendous job of positioning itself to significantly improve on a lot of their stem grad programs over the next 10 years. I'm sure you are aware of the $1.5 billion planned investment into STEM over the next 10-15 years in addition to the other investments and commitments already made to things like the UConn health center. The rise in research and many grad school programs should be pretty incredible.
 
Waquoit said:
Don't let the Rutrolls take your eyes off the prize. These are sports conferences and sports are about winning. UConn won more NCAA titles in the last week than Rutgers have in their entire history.
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Interestingly, UConn also won more last weekend than the entire Big 10 has won in a decade.
 
freescooter said:
Interestingly, UConn also won more last weekend than the entire Big 10 has won in a decade.
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In the BIG two sports, hell yeah. But the BIG crowns an average of 5-6 NCAA champions a year. I know most of us don't give much credit to these less popular Olympic Sports, me included. But I care at the end of the day & this is part of why I like UConn to the BIG: you've got a nice Men's Soccer Program - Field Hockey as well.

This year, the BIG is having a slower year, but PSU and Meechigan have combined to win 4 NCAA titles. I think the conference will see at least one more title by year's end. My alma mater was in two NCAA CG's - hockey - we lost :(. And what about the ever, universally popular bowling? Neb was in the finals ;)
 
Sportsman5 said:
This makes a lot of sense. Research heavy institutions will have a lot of top grad school programs because opportunities for grant money attracts top professors and top professors + a lot of research opportunity attracts top grad students. UConn has done a tremendous job of positioning itself to significantly improve on a lot of their stem grad programs over the next 10 years. I'm sure you are aware of the $1.5 billion planned investment into STEM over the next 10-15 years in addition to the other investments and commitments already made to things like the UConn health center. The rise in research and many grad school programs should be pretty incredible.
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Man, if I had to do it all over again - I'd frankly bypass most, if not all big public schools & go the Liberal Arts college route for undergraduate school. I would also include avoiding bigger private schools for as well. But I'm absolutely happy I went to graduate school at a BIG institution - Wisky. Graduate schools, as already said, are "the bread and butter" of most public-research institutions.

The BIG is filled with outstanding graduate schools, and frankly the climate, colder months, helped me stay focused - nothing but research and classroom application during these months.

UConn has nothing but upside when it comes to academics - I've got nothing but nice things to say about you all. Hope you get into the BIG soon.
 
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Was talking at a conference with a bunch of Big 10 alums last week..........they were all very happy about UCONN's win, even though we trashed the much admired Izzo. They all were commenting about how UCONN would have made sense over Rutgers, but their big problem was sending big 10 schools to the RENT with a 40k capacity.......they all were curious about whether the stadium could up to 55 k which they thought was the number that rang bells with the Big 10. Other than scheduling some games in NYC or Foxboro, they seemed to think that without a commitment to expand the RENT, that it could be a major drawback. I really didn't have an answer for them, but felt that the vibe about UCONN, especially after the NC for men/women was a big deal - and one Female Northwestern alum commented that the Women's field hockey championship was noticed in Evanston because of that schools traditional rep. In field hockey......so you never know where the good vibes are going to come from. No negatives about the academic thing at all. They love Coach O !
 
MJS UCONN'73 said:
Was talking at a conference with a bunch of Big 10 alums last week.....they were all very happy about UCONN's win, even though we trashed the much admired Izzo. They all were commenting about how UCONN would have made sense over Rutgers, but their big problem was sending big 10 schools to the RENT with a 40k capacity..they all were curious about whether the stadium could up to 55 k which they thought was the number that rang bells with the Big 10. Other than scheduling some games in NYC or Foxboro, they seemed to think that without a commitment to expand the RENT, that it could be a major drawback. I really didn't have an answer for them, but felt that the vibe about UCONN, especially after the NC for men/women was a big deal - and one Female Northwestern alum commented that the Women's field hockey championship was noticed in Evanston because of that schools traditional rep. In field hockey.so you never know where the good vibes are going to come from. No negatives about the academic thing at all. They love Coach O !
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Next time tell them the Rent was designed to be easily expanded, and the foundation is there. Tell them it goes up to 100k if that matters. ;^)
 
Gfunk said:
In the BIG two sports, hell yeah. But the BIG crowns an average of 5-6 NCAA champions a year. I know most of us don't give much credit to these less popular Olympic Sports, me included. But I care at the end of the day & this is part of why I like UConn to the BIG: you've got a nice Men's Soccer Program - Field Hockey as well.

This year, the BIG is having a slower year, but PSU and Meechigan have combined to win 4 NCAA titles. I think the conference will see at least one more title by year's end. My alma mater was in two NCAA CG's - hockey - we lost :(. And what about the ever, universally popular bowling? Neb was in the finals ;)
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We have 3 this year, so your 5-6 have already been attained. It's time for the other 12 member to step up to the plate and chip in with a few. We're getting tired of carrying the load for everybody else here in little old State College. :p
 
you do the difference between #57 and #69 is a couple of points right? For US News there isn't much difference in academic quality between #75 and #50 but there is a big difference between $25 and #50. What really matters is what you do with that education. Everything else is pretty frivolous.

The other rankings buggsy sites are researched based. Research isn't given much weight in us news. All of these rankings are subjective and should really only be taken as a quantitative measurement of where that university is with their desired peers. If they are in the same ballpark then that's all that should matter. THese pissing contests over academic rank, which are highly subjective, are just ridiculous. We're both tier 2 schools (as are all schools in the big ten not named Michigan or Northwestern), deal with it.
 
blitz8ru said:
THese pissing contests over academic rank, which are highly subjective, are just ridiculous. We're both tier 2 schools (as are all schools in the big ten not named Michigan or Northwestern), deal with it.
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True. Rutgers is a fine school academically. I was at Harvard and knew a number of people who left Harvard for Rutgers. By the standards the B1G uses, focused on research, UConn wishes it were Rutgers' equal. UConn is trying to get there, and may in 20-30 years or so. It is just a legacy of underinvestment, research in Connecticut was left to Yale, UConn was the cow college.

But the schools are comparable in terms of undergraduate education, and athletically, UConn is superior. One would hope athletics conferences would value athletics.
 
God these threads are tedious. If conference realignment had anything at all to do with athletic and academic excellence UCONN would now be in either the B1G or the ACC. It doesn't, so we're not.
 
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