UConn fans should stop pretending we have a shot at the Big 12

[IMind]

The geography argument is silly. It's not like by adding Memphis and Cinci all of a sudden they can fly west and then take a bus everywhere..

If "geography" were the rational used and you wanted to add travel partners for WVU.. UConn and Cinci are the only two that are "close" to Morgantown. UConn is closer than Memphis or UCF or whatever..

Morgantown is just a bitch to get to...

I also don't understand why BYU is this great geographic fit. They're almost as far away from Dallas, TX as UConn is.

That being said even my "logic" is garbage because once you get outside of a few hours distance between campus you're travelling by air anyway.

If geography had ANYTHING at all to do with it they'd just at Houston and Rice and say "Welcome back to the SWC" and call it a day.

---

There is real no great add for the B12. They did miss the boat with Louisville... and should have just added Louisville and Cinci when they added WVU.

There choices are add some geographic outliers that probably move the needle some in terms of revenue: UConn and BYU.

Add a couple of schools that might be closer, but still really don't help out that much: Memphis and Cinci... and travel STILL sucks.

Try to beat a GOR. (Which they might not be in a hurry to do because it would invalidate their GOR)

If I were in the B12 shoes? I'd add UConn and UCF. New York/Northeast market and Florida recruiting.

Which is why they're staying at 10 until someone or something forces them too. (NCAA/Economics)

 

[1husky]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

No, Memphis is a lock. There is NO WAY Warde can be held accountable if we get beat out for the final spot in the P5 by a POWERHOUSE like Memphis.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would have thought the Big 10 or ACC would have added UConn years ago, but they clearly are not interested. They could each have UConn any time they wanted. They are not interested. The only P5 league for which the decision factors have changed is the Big 12. The Big 12 wants 2 more teams for both markets and to get its numbers up. BYU and UConn are far and away the two best prospects left, although neither is geographically ideal. BYU has a huge national following and is strong in both major sports. UConn is excellent in hoops, has an untouched market of 3.6MM that is wealthy, could arguably compete throughout New England and into New York. And New York is still available for a P5 league, since the ACC and Big 10 have not exactly locked it down with Syracuse and Rutgers.

Cincinnati is solid as a school and program and a bit better geographically than BYU and UConn, and then there is a huge drop. Boise should probably be next on the list with great football and decent basketball plus a decent metro with no competition and proximity to BYU.

Memphis is a community college that has 6 P5 schools within 5 hour drives. UCF splits its market with 3 powerhouse programs. Houston is probably #3 or #4 in its market when it is winning 10+ games in football, and not even on the radar when it is .500 or worse..

UConn, Cincinnati, BYU, and Boise are the only candidates that are even 1 or 2 in their own markets in terms of fan interest.

 

[junglehusky]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

I think you are overestimating the rationality of the BXII. I think they will either do nothing, or make an impulsive knee jerk addition.

By the way, Kansas is a huge brand name, UConn is getting close to where they are but in the B1G's eyes they are probably a bball equivalent of Nebraska. If Kansas, OU and one other football brand can head to the B1G, UConn will make a case for being the 4th addition. 2bb + 2fb.

 

[junglehusky]

I would have thought the Big 10 or ACC would have added UConn years ago, but they clearly are not interested. They could each have UConn any time they wanted. They are not interested.

Why does that "logic" apply to those two conferences and not the B12? The Big East was interested in Temple, then they kicked them out and were not interested, and then they were interested again. Things change (sometimes).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why does that "logic" apply to those two conferences and not the B12? The Big East was interested in Temple, then they kicked them out and were not interested, and then they were interested again. Things change (sometimes).

Things change when something changes them. The decision factors for the ACC and Big 10 are the same now as they were 4 years ago. UConn got passed over for Rutgers, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. Not exactly a murderers row of athletic programs. At any point during the last 4 years, the ACC or Big 10 could have added UConn. They didn't. What is going to change going forward? A new Big 10 ESPN TV deal? A drop in the bucket for the overall economics for that league. If they thought they needed UConn, they would have added us already.

Nothing has or will change on the ACC side short of an ACC Network, which seems increasingly unlikely. Ironically, as often happens on this board, we rejoice too much in the pain of others when the event causing that pain, the likely mothballing of the ACCN, is also the final nail in UConn's coffin with that league.

Which brings us to the Big 12. They have announced they are considering expansion and have hired a committee. That is the gift horse, and you are looking for its mouth. This is likely the last hope for UConn or anyone else to get to a P5, and you can expect every school to pull out all the stops if this gets any momentum. My fear is that this expansion threat is just to get Texas to drop the LHN, and once the LHN is gone, Oklahoma decides it doesn't need the Big 12 to expand.

 

[junglehusky]

If the Big 12 adds two it will not be the last stop. GORs aren't forever.

 

[CallMeBruce]

The ACC Network is going to happen, but you can believe ESPN really doesn't want to do it.

 

[Fishy]

The ACC Network is going to happen, but you can believe ESPN really doesn't want to do it.

Then why would it happen?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Then why would it happen?

Because eventually their member schools are going to start losing a lot of money relative to what they'd be making with a network, and some of those members will leave the league. There's no way that ESPN can afford to tell the ACC that they won't pay for an ACCN while the Big 12 is actively seeking new membership. FOX is throwing stupid money around to really try to take ESPN's legs out from under them, and this is a great opportunity.

 

[Fishy]

Because eventually their member schools are going to start losing a lot of money relative to what they'd be making with a network, and some of those members will leave the league. There's no way that ESPN can afford to tell the ACC that they won't pay for an ACCN while the Big 12 is actively seeking new membership. FOX is throwing stupid money around to really try to take ESPN's legs out from under them, and this is a great opportunity.

But the problem with ESPN starting an ACC Network is that it probably won't make much money - which is why they're reticent to start one.

If this was a venture that was going to start piling up money for its partners, don't you think ESPN would have already committed to it?

And if it came to the point where the ACC was to start losing members, ESPN can help guide some of that value to the SEC or whatever else they control at that point and just write down the ACC. It's not like they haven't done this before...

 

[billybud]

I think that ESPN is in sort of a "pause mode" until the Big Ten negotiations get finalized.

I don't expect much news re the ACC until the scheduled five year "look in" date of 2017. That's when the shoe will have to drop...go or no go on ACC channel.

Whatever happens...the SEC and Big Ten will be light years ahead of the other conferences in revenue per team. That will not change....

 

[nelsonmuntz]

But the problem with ESPN starting an ACC Network is that it probably won't make much money - which is why they're reticent to start one.

If this was a venture that was going to start piling up money for its partners, don't you think ESPN would have already committed to it?

And if it came to the point where the ACC was to start losing members, ESPN can help guide some of that value to the SEC or whatever else they control at that point and just write down the ACC. It's not like they haven't done this before...

ESPN had a chance to fillet the ACC when it was locked into a 15 year, $12MM/team a year deal, and ESPN renegotiated the contract and boosted the payouts, in the process paying a crapload of money to shred the Big East when they probably could have held that league together for half or less of what they ended up paying for all the schools but UConn, Cincinnati and USF to leave.

ESPN has only 2 leagues committed to the worldwide leader, the SEC and ACC. It will not let either one of them fail. If ESPN has to sprinkle a few million more a year on the ACC to hold it together, ESPN will sprinkle.

 

[1husky]

I think you are overestimating the rationality of the BXII. I think they will either do nothing, or make an impulsive knee jerk addition.

If our AD is doing his job then no one should be making any knee jerk additions at this point unless they include UConn. Every AD, President, and League Commissioner should know what we bring, why it's important, how that adds value to their league, and what cool people we are. It seems like 1/2 the people on this board consider UConn's value to be zero. And we're the die hard fans. If that's the case then we are never getting out of the AAC. If any other school in the country had our resume they would instantly be picked up by a P5 conference. It's on our leadership to make it happen.

 

[junglehusky]

If our AD is doing his job then no one should be making any knee jerk additions at this point unless they include UConn. Every AD, President, and League Commissioner should know what we bring, why it's important, how that adds value to their league, and what cool people we are. It seems like 1/2 the people on this board consider UConn's value to be zero. And we're the die hard fans. If that's the case then we are never getting out of the AAC. If any other school in the country had our resume they would instantly be picked up by a P5 conference. It's on our leadership to make it happen.

All it takes is the AD telling other schools & conferences what UConn brings and they will add us, nobody has added us so the AD must not have told them how good we are. Of course - it's so simple!

Who on this board has ever said UConn's value is zero? Not me - I'm in the camp that UConn can make a case to the B1G / ACC.

 

[djct1999]

I think you are overestimating the rationality of the BXII. I think they will either do nothing, or make an impulsive knee jerk addition.

By the way, Kansas is a huge brand name, UConn is getting close to where they are but in the B1G's eyes they are probably a bball equivalent of Nebraska. If Kansas, OU and one other football brand can head to the B1G, UConn will make a case for being the 4th addition. 2bb + 2fb.

HUH? I don't know a lot, but I am fairly certain that the B1G does not consider us as the basketball equivalent of Nebraska. That is pure lunacy. In fact, Delaney and company would probably rank our women's program in terms of value ahead of the Nebraska men.

 

[Gurleyman]

HUH? I don't know a lot, but I am fairly certain that the B1G does not consider us as the basketball equivalent of Nebraska. That is pure lunacy. In fact, Delaney and company would probably rank our women's program in terms of value ahead of the Nebraska men.

Not to speak out of turn, but I think his point was the B1G might view UConn basketball as an equivalent to Nebraska football. That's how I read it anyway. Although maybe I read it that way because the idea that UConn and Nebraska are equivalent in basketball is too far out there.

 

[djct1999]

Not to speak out of turn, but I think his point was the B1G might view UConn basketball as an equivalent to Nebraska football. That's how I read it anyway. Although maybe I read it that way because the idea that UConn and Nebraska are equivalent in basketball is too far out there.

Yeah, maybe I misunderstood it. In fact, it has to be that. My bad. Damn these are sensitive times.

 

[whaler11]

He meant that UConn basketball would be an outlier like Nebraska football. Not that their basketball programs are similar.

 

[Dooley]

Hey, I jumped down the assistant AD at Notre Dame's throat for posting a honest and sincere question about picture selection in a recent UConn football promotion. These are (overly) sensitive times indeed!

 

[junglehusky]

HUH? I don't know a lot, but I am fairly certain that the B1G does not consider us as the basketball equivalent of Nebraska. That is pure lunacy. In fact, Delaney and company would probably rank our women's program in terms of value ahead of the Nebraska men.

I meant Kansas would be viewed by the B1G as a bball brand the way they view Nebraska as a football brand. Sorry if that was unclear. Then, UConn + Kansas would be the 2 bball brands, OU and team X (Texas? OSU?) would be the 2 football brands. Balanced.

 

[CL82]

All it takes is the AD telling other schools & conferences what UConn brings and they will add us, nobody has added us so the AD must not have told them how good we are. Of course - it's so simple!

Who on this board has ever said UConn's value is zero? Not me - I'm in the camp that UConn can make a case to the B1G / ACC.

Ring, ring - ring, ring

Hello?

Is this Jim Delany?

Yes it is.

Hi, this Warde Manuel, the AD at UConn.

Well hi Warde. How the hell are you?

Um, I'm fine Jim, uh, may I call you Jim?

Absolutely Warde, ab-so-lute-ly!

Uh, so I wanted to say that UConn is a pretty terrific school, with good academic and athletic success.

Yep you sure do!

Uh and we have some decent markets and a pretty strong following in NYC.

Hell, you don't have to tell me, son. I was there at the Michigan State game in MSG aand my ears are still ringing, ha ha ha.

Uh, sorry?

No problem son, no problem at all. So what can I do for you?

Well we were, uh, wondering if we could join the Big Ten?

Well hell yeah! You'd be a great fit for us, and I wouldn't mind you winning a few more national championships in basketball for us! Just wish I knew that you were interested earlier.

Really?

Ab-so-lute-ly. I'll have our lawyers draw something up and send it to you next week.

Cool thanks. I guess I'll be talking to you soon.

Ab-so-lute-ly. Bye Bye

http://i2./www.votersopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/that-was-easy.jpg

 

[1husky]

All it takes is the AD telling other schools & conferences what UConn brings and they will add us, nobody has added us so the AD must not have told them how good we are. Of course - it's so simple!

Who on this board has ever said UConn's value is zero? Not me - I'm in the camp that UConn can make a case to the B1G / ACC.

That's great and all but as far as anyone knows the B1G/ACC aren't adding anyone for the next 10 years. UConn cannot wait that long. IF the Big12 or any other P5 league adds anyone then we should be at the top of the list. No one else available touches UConn's combo of athletic success, academics and markets. Sorry that you and Whaler don't see that. Hopefully Boren sees that. Warde and Susan should damn well make sure the other presidents and the commissioners see it too since we're already playing in TX and OK and LA for 10% of the money. Decision makers in the Big12 were shortsighted with Louisville. If they are shortsighted again it could mean the end of their league. They better understand that too. If you and Whaler believe Memphis, Cincy, and UCF have more value than us than I can see why you think no one at UConn should be held accountable and we should just walk away with our tail between our legs. I happen to believe that is insane.

 

[junglehusky]

That's great and all but as far as anyone knows the B1G/ACC aren't adding anyone for the next 10 years. UConn cannot wait that long. IF the Big12 or any other P5 league adds anyone then we should be at the top of the list. No one else available touches UConn's combo of athletic success, academics and markets. Sorry that you and Whaler don't see that. Hopefully Boren sees that. Warde and Susan should damn well make sure the other presidents and the commissioners see it too since we're already playing in TX and OK and LA for 10% of the money. Decision makers in the Big12 were shortsighted with Louisville. If they are shortsighted again it could mean the end of their league. They better understand that too. If you and Whaler believe Memphis, Cincy, and UCF have more value than us than I can see why you think no one at UConn should be held accountable and we should just walk away with our tail between our legs. I happen to believe that is insane.

Now you're just making up things I didn't say. Of course UConn has a great resume, best overall athletics profile of any G5, excellent academics and research and markets. I AGREE. Stop saying I don't recognize these attributes. I recognize that, the UConn people recognize that, and I would wager they have already sent out materials and called people in the B12 and other leagues to make them recognize that.

If, as you and nelsonmuntz seem to think, this is all it takes to get to the top of the list, then UConn will be in the B12 if they expand. If, on the other hand, there are other criteria on the B12's list like recruiting territory or cultural fit, or if the Big12 are not rational actors, then a school with less value could wind up there. The fact that it already happened with UL indicates to me it can happen again. For UConn to get in the Big 12, our best bet would be for them to wait several years before expanding so that our football program (the Big12's likely #1 priority criteria) can start winning again. Then we could say at least say we'd be competitive in that league and not a drag on their perception.

 

[whaler11]

That's great and all but as far as anyone knows the B1G/ACC aren't adding anyone for the next 10 years. UConn cannot wait that long. IF the Big12 or any other P5 league adds anyone then we should be at the top of the list. No one else available touches UConn's combo of athletic success, academics and markets. Sorry that you and Whaler don't see that. Hopefully Boren sees that. Warde and Susan should damn well make sure the other presidents and the commissioners see it too since we're already playing in TX and OK and LA for 10% of the money. Decision makers in the Big12 were shortsighted with Louisville. If they are shortsighted again it could mean the end of their league. They better understand that too. If you and Whaler believe Memphis, Cincy, and UCF have more value than us than I can see why you think no one at UConn should be held accountable and we should just walk away with our tail between our legs. I happen to believe that is insane.

Brother buy a map. You can ignore the geography and the fact the Big 12 is really only a football league if you'd like.

You can act like UConn is a slamdunk to any league you like - but the leagues to this point completely disagree with you.

If you want to tar and feather the admin if they don't get invited knock yourself out.

 

[SonsOfNutmeg]

Here's a pro IF UConn got a Big XII bid... we could still retain our membership in Hockey East for men's and women's ice hockey. I'd imagine if the B1G was interested they'd want us to bring hockey over too.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Here's a pro IF UConn got a Big XII bid... we could still retain our membership in Hockey East for men's and women's ice hockey. I'd imagine if the B1G was interested they'd want us to bring hockey over too.

I can't even express how little that matters. I would personally drive the Ice Bus to Ohio State if it got us into the B1G.

 

[DudeOfCT]

I can't even express how little that matters. I would personally drive the Ice Bus to Ohio State if it got us into the B1G.

We would need to go to the NHL Central

 

[1husky]

Brother buy a map. You can ignore the geography and the fact the Big 12 is really only a football league if you'd like.

You can act like UConn is a slamdunk to any league you like - but the leagues to this point completely disagree with you.

If you want to tar and feather the admin if they don't get invited knock yourself out.

Like I said, we are already playing games in TX, OK, and La. Shouldn't be an impediment to us joining another league with the same geography. And if the Big12 leadership doesn't recognize the fact that they may need to diversify, add new markets, and additional sports to remain a viable league, well that's on our leadership. We need an AD and a president who recognize that it's their responsibility to make them realize that. The Hathaway Method is a proven failure.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Brother buy a map. You can ignore the geography and the fact the Big 12 is really only a football league if you'd like.

You can act like UConn is a slamdunk to any league you like - but the leagues to this point completely disagree with you.

If you want to tar and feather the admin if they don't get invited knock yourself out.

Should we celebrate failure instead?

If UConn's athletic department is not financially self-sufficient within 5 years, it is going to look a lot different than it is now. If you think UConn is finished athletically, I won't argue with you. I think that is the most likely outcome and regardless, I don't feel like arguing that scenario. If you think it is OK for Manuel to fail to achieve something better than the AAC and $2MM a year in conference TV revenue, then we have a strong disagreement.