UConn fans should stop pretending we have a shot at the Big 12

[junglehusky]

You are delusional if you think the UConn BoT has any interest in throwing $10 million a year in subsidies down the toilet for 10 years in the hope UConn will get an invitation to a P5 conference in the distant future. Herbst loves spending money on academics, and i do not see any way that the state doesn't reduce support for the school given the financial condition of the state. There is no way to fund the athletic program out of the school, so they better come up with another source, quickly, or there will be severe cutbacks to it.

Your position that the school should just keep shoveling cash at the athletic department because you like going to football games is ridiculous, and not one that will be shared for long by the Administration.

College sports is a pretty ridiculous thing. UConn won't downgrade to the NESCAC, not for as long as they can do anything about it and ESPN or somebody will pay at least a subsistence to compete in a D1 conference.

 

[Adios]

5-10 years seems to be a perfect timeline for many schools and athletic departments to continue to develop. I hope I die after we get out of the AAC.

 

[upstater]

There will likely be a showdown between the state and UConn before anything drastic happens to UConn athletics.

The two will engage in a game of chicken. I say this because the deals with UConn football in Hartford and UConn hockey/basketball, etc., just seem to have Malloy's name on them. There are political interests in the state who are very interested in UConn sports. At some point, when the cost becomes unbearable, the UConn President, whoever it is, will have one last card to play. And that will be a direct sports fund for athletics subsidized by the state. It won't go down that way, but the mere threat of it may sharpen minds about all the cuts UConn is presently enduring.

 

[J187Money]

Newton better make it rain.

 

[Dooley]

While I think UConn is a better fit for the B1G (and are working on improving its B1G profile), this thread is nuts. If UConn's administrators/leaders aren't trying to sell the B12 of the importance of having huge markets and year-round content (read: hoops) to a TV/Media contract and are, instead, waiting on an invite from the B1G/ACC that may or may not come in the next 5-10 years, they should all be removed immediately. No, UConn is not the best of fits for the B12 from a culture standpoint and the travel sucks (as it does in the AAC), but a power conference is a power conference and we need to find one ASAP.

UConn. BYU. These are the two biggest brands and revenue generators outside of the P5 conferences and it's not even close. If BYU is able to get in to the B12 and they have the same travel issue as UConn does for their members, then there will be absolutely zero excuse for UConn. I know UConn has spent the past few years positioning itself for a B1G invite, but if the B1G isn't going to expand for 5-10 years (and who knows if they will expand), we need to get ourselves out of AAC purgatory ASAP. We'll worry about tomorrow tomorrow.

There will be a TON of damage control needed if the B12 expands with BYU and Memphis. BYU is the same distance from B12 members as UConn is and Memphis is Memphis. And if UConn administrators/leaders are holding their noses up at the B12 and aren't going all in for an invite, then we need a new direction.

 

[junglehusky]

While I think UConn is a better fit for the B1G (and are working on improving its B1G profile), this thread is nuts. If UConn's administrators/leaders aren't trying to sell the B12 of the importance of having huge markets and year-round content (read: hoops) to a TV/Media contract and are, instead, waiting on an invite from the B1G/ACC that may or may not come in the next 5-10 years, they should all be removed immediately. No, UConn is not the best of fits for the B12 from a culture standpoint and the travel sucks (as it does in the AAC), but a power conference is a power conference and we need to find one ASAP.

UConn. BYU. These are the two biggest brands and revenue generators outside of the P5 conferences and it's not even close. If BYU is able to get in to the B12 and they have the same travel issue as UConn does for their members, then there will be absolutely zero excuse for UConn. I know UConn has spent the past few years positioning itself for a B1G invite, but if the B1G isn't going to expand for 5-10 years (and who knows if they will expand), we need to get ourselves out of AAC purgatory ASAP. We'll worry about tomorrow tomorrow.

There will be a TON of damage control needed if the B12 expands with BYU and Memphis. BYU is the same distance from B12 members as UConn is and Memphis is Memphis. And if UConn administrators/leaders are holding their noses up at the B12 and aren't going all in for an invite, then we need a new direction.

You don't think there will be as much damage control if the B12 takes a school coming off a 2 win year with relatively little recruiting grounds to offer? B12 fans aren't going to be swayed by basketball and markets. UConn needs to think strategy, not tactics.

 

[Husky92]

Well, hearing @Dooley say that Provo is just as far away from the BXII as Storrs, I needed to refresh my geography perspectives. A few things I learned.
1. The B12 is almost as much a frankenconference as the AAC (albeit with a MUCH better pedigree. WV just doesn't fit and Iowa St is not contiguous.
2. UCONN is a bit farther away than BYU, but not too much. And BYU is still not in the same geographical region.
3. Memphis and Cincinnati make the most sense geographically, b/c they help to tie in WV. Air Force and Colorado St also make sense from a geography standpoint.
4. I still want them to invite UCONN!

 

[Dooley]

You don't think there will be as much damage control if the B12 takes a school coming off a 2 win year with relatively little recruiting grounds to offer? B12 fans aren't going to be swayed by basketball and markets. UConn needs to think strategy, not tactics.

Sorry, I meant our own internal (UConn) damage control. The Nelson's of the world would use another snub as more ammo to cut sports and, unfortunately, the more we're passed over, the more ears they will get and the more sense their arguments will begin to make.

I couldn't care less about B12 damage control. I'm completely confident that we would bring value to any power conference and also be competitive in football. We were already competitive in a BCS conference - no less competitive than Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, etc in the Big East.

 

[junglehusky]

Sorry, I meant our own internal (UConn) damage control. The Nelson's of the world would use another snub as more ammo to cut sports and, unfortunately, the more we're passed over, the more ears they will get and the more sense their arguments will begin to make.

I couldn't care less about B12 damage control. I'm completely confident that we would bring value to any power conference and also be competitive in football. We were already competitive in a BCS conference - no less competitive than Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, etc in the Big East.

I'm also confident we would be competitive in football in a P5. But I think UConn fans are underestimating how much weight recruiting grounds would factor in the BXII's decision process. That's why I think Memphis, UCF, even Cincy have a leg up, and there is no direct counterargument, unfortunately. It's less of a factor for other conferences. Now if they BXII waits a few years instead of expanding immediately, the weighting could change especially if the BXII wins a couple CFP championships.

 

[Dooley]

Well, hearing @Dooley say that Provo is just as far away from the BXII as Storrs, I needed to refresh my geography perspectives. A few things I learned.
1. The B12 is almost as much a frankenconference as the AAC (albeit with a MUCH better pedigree. WV just doesn't fit and Iowa St is not contiguous.
2. UCONN is a bit farther away than BYU, but not too much. And BYU is still not in the same geographical region.
3. Memphis and Cincinnati make the most sense geographically, b/c they help to tie in WV. Air Force and Colorado St also make sense from a geography standpoint.
4. I still want them to invite UCONN!

Yup. If the B12 was really interested in its long term growth potential (and securing its place as a power conference), they would scrap this idea of adding the bare minimum and think about adding the top 4-6 schools available right now. BYU and UConn for market strength and brand value for TV. Cincinnati and UCF for football strength and recruiting territories. Houston to appease Texas long-term. Colorado St to gain re-access into CO markets. First conference to 16. Bam. Now the ACC can only hope for Notre Dame to shift from part to full time (not happening) and have to look at Memphis, USF, SMU, Temple types if they wanted to expand. None of what would be left appeals whatsoever to a potential ACCN, except for Hail Mary ND play. What would be more likely to happen is that the ACC will be poached by the B1G and SEC down the road by its inability to expand and create an ACCN, thus locking the B12 in as a long term power conference.

But, unfortunately, I have zero confidence in B12 leadership thinking intelligently and long-term.

 

[Dooley]

I'm also confident we would be competitive in football in a P5. But I think UConn fans are underestimating how much weight recruiting grounds would factor in the BXII's decision process. That's why I think Memphis, UCF, even Cincy have a leg up, and there is no direct counterargument, unfortunately. It's less of a factor for other conferences. Now if they BXII waits a few years instead of expanding immediately, the weighting could change especially if the BXII wins a couple CFP championships.

Memphis shouldn't have a leg up over UConn in anything. TN recruiting is dominated by the SEC and ACC. Memphis football has an identical lifetime record as UConn so their recruiting advantage has clearly never been realized. Memphis brings nothing of value - which means they are probably going to be invited. First rule of CR: the kick to the UConn fan's nutz has to be swift and painful.

 

[1husky]

I'm also confident we would be competitive in football in a P5. But I think UConn fans are underestimating how much weight recruiting grounds would factor in the BXII's decision process. That's why I think Memphis, UCF, even Cincy have a leg up, and there is no direct counterargument, unfortunately. It's less of a factor for other conferences. Now if they BXII waits a few years instead of expanding immediately, the weighting could change especially if the BXII wins a couple CFP championships.

We get it. You've never sold anything before. Don't you see any value in what UConn offers? The Big12 has at least as many concerns with what the other schools offer and there are plenty of counterarguments.

 

[MemphisBlues]

Memphis shouldn't have a leg up over UConn in anything. TN recruiting is dominated by the SEC and ACC. Memphis football has an identical lifetime record as UConn so their recruiting advantage has clearly never been realized. Memphis brings nothing of value - which means they are probably going to be invited. First rule of CR: the kick to the UConn fan's nutz has to be swift and painful.

Certainly, right now P5 quality players in Shelby County (Memphis) really only hear about and consider SEC teams - but if the Big 12 actually played games in Memphis I seriously doubt that the SEC would continue to dominate as it has. Why? Big 12 teams would now get coverage in the local TV, the local paper, local sports radio, and prospects could actually watch Big 12 games at the Liberty Bowl (which already a Big 12 contract). The Big 12 teams would become familiar to the local players and Big 12 coaches could promise actual games in the home city. Right now the SEC gets more players from Shelby County than any other county in the nation. It's rich recruiting ground. I doubt, as some seem to suggest, that Memphis recruiting would a non-factor in the Big 12 decision making process if it gets this far.

 

[whaler11]

I don't think they are going to expand, but if they do - I don't see how it isn't two of three between Memphis, UCF and Cincinnati. With football recruiting grounds being the number one criteria used.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

BYU, UConn and Cincinnati are light years ahead of the other choices. It will be two of those three. The rest of the choices are commuter schools with limited fan potential and no national interest.

 

[whaler11]

BYU, UConn and Cincinnati are light years ahead of the other choices. It will be two of those three. The rest of the choices are commuter schools with limited fan potential and no national interest.

Sure that stance allows you to bash everyone at UConn... it isn't close to reality but that's cool.

 

[whaler11]

We get it. You've never sold anything before. Don't you see any value in what UConn offers? The Big12 has at least as many concerns with what the other schools offer and there are plenty of counterarguments.

If only they would turn it over to message board posters with sales experience UConn wouldn't be entering their third AAC season.

 

[junglehusky]

We get it. You've never sold anything before. Don't you see any value in what UConn offers? The Big12 has at least as many concerns with what the other schools offer and there are plenty of counterarguments.

I do, and I see which conferences align better with what UConn has to offer and which ones don't.

 

[noeynox]

I don't think they are going to expand, but if they do - I don't see how it isn't two of three between Memphis, UCF and Cincinnati. With football recruiting grounds being the number one criteria used.

There is too much smoke here. The question is when.

 

[junglehusky]

Memphis shouldn't have a leg up over UConn in anything. TN recruiting is dominated by the SEC and ACC. Memphis football has an identical lifetime record as UConn so their recruiting advantage has clearly never been realized. Memphis brings nothing of value - which means they are probably going to be invited. First rule of CR: the kick to the UConn fan's nutz has to be swift and painful.

BYU, UConn and Cincinnati are light years ahead of the other choices. It will be two of those three. The rest of the choices are commuter schools with limited fan potential and no national interest.

Different conferences have different priorities. Plus first rule of CR.

 

[1husky]

If only they would turn it over to message board posters with sales experience UConn wouldn't be entering their third AAC season.

Or, athletic directors who are rock stars.

 

[junglehusky]

Translation: The only reason the Big 12 should expand is for long term sustainability. The only two schools that may provide that is BYU and UConn. The lone problem: geography.

Again, I just don't see how/why the Big12 would add from Cincy, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF. Before that happens, Oklahoma will bolt.

By the way.... Oklahoma will be the one pushing for (2 of) those schools.

 

[The Funster]

Big 12 would be smart to go all in and move to 16. UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, UConn, BYU.

BOOM

 

[whaler11]

Big 12 would be smart to go all in and move to 16. UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, UConn, BYU.

BOOM

Yes I'm sure the media partners want to go from paying that group about $15 million to $150 million annually. It would also excite them to take traditional rivals off their football schedules and replace them with half an AAC schedule.

 

[djct1999]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

 

[Dooley]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills anytime somebody posts something to the affect of "Memphis adds football recruiting to the B12". Other than being located in TN, Memphis offers nothing of the sort. By that metric, why not invite Middle Tennessee State? They are located in TN and have a 551-410 all-time football record (compared with Memphis' 455-504 all-time football record). Our all-time football record of 502-541 doesn't look so bad, all of a sudden! If football recruiting is the sole factor in B12 expansion, then the only candidates should be UCF/USF/Cincinnati/Houston. If they want to stoop into the next lower level, why not look at SMU/Tulsa/ECU or even SDSU/Fresno St??

Because I'm tired of debating whether or not Memphis is a realistic candidate to be a power conference member, let's look at their resume...

Football:
Pros - located in Tennessee; play in a stadium that seats over 60K
Cons - despite being located in such a fertile football recruiting territory, post an all-time football record of 455-504; have never come close to actually selling out its 60K stadium

Basketball:
Pros - play in a nice FedEx Forum arena; made it to 1* Final Four
Cons - a lot of their program's success has been vacated due to improper cheating (*2 Final Four appearances have been vacated)

Academics:
Pros - 73.2% acceptance rate means that if any 4 nitwits applied, 3 would get in!
Cons - their ranking is listed as "RNP"...I have no idea what "RNP" stands for ("Reading Not Prequired"? "Ranking Near Poop"? "Really Not Post-Graduate"??); makes Louisville look like a Kentucky Ivy

Brand:
Pros - Tigers are scary, especially when they're mauling their handlers during a Vegas act; Memphis provided some cool backdrop shots to the shooting of the movie "The Firm"
Cons - ask 100 college fans "what school has a tiger for a mascot?" and 100/100 will answer "LSU"; no movie set has ever returned to Memphis after "The Firm" because, eh, we are talking about Memphis

Sugar Daddys:
Pro - I guess the FedEx dude has offered a pittance package to the B12 to take pity and invite his Memphis Tigers (?)
Con - FedEx dude should put some money into the school's $217M endowment (about half of UConn's low amount that is argued against us!); unless he is willing to give the school $1.5B like the state of CT just did, his private money pales in comparison with full state support

Again, if football recruiting territory is the only metric being used by the B12 in expansion, then the following schools should have an easy leg up over Memphis:

UCF
USF
Cincinnati
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
SDSU
Fresno St
Temple!

That all said, Memphis will probably get into the B12 because the metrics for evaluating/inviting new members have grown increasingly short-sided and dumb over the years (anything to justify obeying CR Rule #1 and not inviting UConn!). And like I've said before, if Memphis is invited to a power conference before UConn, then some very serious damage control will need to be issued by our leaders to calm the outrage and pitchforks that will surely come from our fanbase (rightfully so!).

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Brand:
Pros - Tigers are scary, especially when they're mauling their handlers during a Vegas act; Memphis provided some cool backdrop shots to the shooting of the movie "The Firm"
Cons - ask 100 college fans "what school has a tiger for a mascot?" and 100/100 will answer "LSU"; no movie set has ever returned to Memphis after "The Firm" because, eh, we are talking about Memphis

Not 100%, afterall, there's that so-so football school in Alabama that also uses Tiger nickname. Though they mascot is an Eagle. Never understood that one. But, I know their fans are easily offended and may resort to violence.

 

[Dooley]

Not 100%, afterall, there's that so-so football school in Alabama that also uses Tiger nickname. Though they mascot is an Eagle. Never understood that one. But, I know their fans are easily offended and may resort to violence.

LOL - yup, I typed that one up too quick without giving it any thought. Maybe the CON should read that 100% will NOT answer "Memphis". Yeah, LSU, Auburn (sorry Auburn fans!) and Missouri (sorry Mizzou fans!) dominate the market on Tigers.

 

[CL82]

Princeton.

 

[Dooley]

Princeton.

Honestly, more people would probably say Princeton than Memphis.