"UCONN belongs in a tougher conference" | Page 5 | The Boneyard

"UCONN belongs in a tougher conference"

oldude

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Coaching based on what? Marquette's good young coach left to go to PSU.
Marquette got another good young coach in Duffy. Tartamella, Flannery, Bozella & Bruno have all been around a long time, know what they’re doing and it shows. Nova’s Dillon is another good young coach.

Admittedly, my assessment is based on perceptions to some degree. Other than Jose at USF and Stockton at Tulane, I was never much impressed with the way AAC teams played. The offensive and defensive execution in the BE just appears better overall.
 

Bald Husky

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Lets face it, we had no choice than to move to the BE. The AAC was killing us, no challenge in WBB, MBB was so totally disappointing, football went downhill fast. When BC blackballed us from the ACC our goose was cooked. I still can't believe that a new member had that much influence on the charter members to turn them against us. Of course, we had one more chance, but our broken football program gave Louisville the edge needed to push us out again. I didn't think WBB success would change much, but I thought we would find at least a couple of challenges. On the mens side, it is a little better. Unfortunately, we will never get the feeling back when playing Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns. The anticipation of playing them, the great coaches, the great players are gone. Maybe in ten years down the road we can develop new rivalries with these, or other teams in the conference. For this old dog, and I'm sure to a lot of you out there, it will never be the same.
 
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1 yes
2 middle of the road
3 ditto
4 which of UConns top players this team come from Big E areas? Was the last great UConn player from the NBE area Tina Charles? WBB is bigger in the South East, Florida, Texas, California, North West, Mid West.
I meant that schools in the BE are in places where there is great HS basketball, so those coaches shouldn't have to go too far to recruit players to compete in a better BE with UCONN at the front. NY, Chicago, DC/Maryland, Philly/South Jersey, Indianapolis all have a Big East Member school.
 

CL82

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Of course, we had one more chance, but our broken football program gave Louisville the edge needed to push us out again
You realize we beat Louisville that year, right?
 
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Ouch! It hurts because there are a lot of grains of truth to that. Here are some thoughts from a purely WBB perspective:

1. I don't have a problem with the BE. There are some advantages to being in a basketball focused conference. The P5 conferences only have 2 sports: football and everything else.

2. The BE is mostly small to medium sized schools? True, but UCONN is not huge by mid-west standards. ND is still almost tiny. I believe it was the smallest school in the old BE. Does size really matter? Do all the undergraduates who go to ND play football or are in the band?

3. Yes 20 conference games are too many.

4. Will UCONN ever get invited to join a P5 conference? See above: football, football, football.
On point 4-you're absolutely right.

I actually think our best shot at joining a P5, should there ever be more expansion, is the B1G. I don't see this for at least another 10 years, however. The B1G was looking for a NY footprint and they thought they got it in Rutgers, but that hasn't worked out the way they wanted.

If there is expansion though, I can see Cincinnati getting an invite before us, to join the ACC or B1G. That's really the only school from a location standpoint that could be in either conference. UCF and USF will probably be P5 schools before us, but they would join the SEC or Big 12, IMO.
 
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Don’t know if it’s even possible but I like the “Independent” idea like ND football. Probably too hard to do with so many games that would need to be scheduled. From a fan point of view, it would be great to watch so many games against top competition. Now, with UCONN building what looks like a true powerhouse, instead of beating the BE teams by 30, 40, 50 points, we get to watch them win by 40, 50, 60 points. We will be on the edge of our seats wondering how many minutes the subs get.
 

Tonyc

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You know what?? UConn has won 11 NC's and countless other conference tourneys, and other tournaments. More then any other WCBB in America. Why dont other teams follow UConns lead?? UConn doesnt need a tuffer conference to play in. Theyve already proved themselves and set records that may never be broken. UConn continues to schedule tuff OOC opponents and thats enough. More teams need to schedule tuffer OOC opponents.
 

Waquoit

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Exactly the reason not to leave the AAC, of course there is the $17 million penalty, and making the whole football program irrelevant.
The FB program became irrelevant the moment it joined the AAC. We went D-1, the story goes, to protect our basketball programs. Instead FB became a millstone, pulling our prized hoop down under with it. UConn cut the rope and both teams are flourishing again. If UConn has any chance to go P5, it's going to be with the strength of our BB programs. That's what differentiates UConn from the pack.

And Bueckers committed a few months before the BE announcement. Edwards, Fudd et al. came after. But these things don't happen overnight. I'm sure the coming change was made known to Paige. Geno isn't putting this current crew together in the AAC.
 
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Ouch! It hurts because there are a lot of grains of truth to that. Here are some thoughts from a purely WBB perspective:

1. I don't have a problem with the BE. There are some advantages to being in a basketball focused conference. The P5 conferences only have 2 sports: football and everything else.

2. The BE is mostly small to medium sized schools? True, but UCONN is not huge by mid-west standards. ND is still almost tiny. I believe it was the smallest school in the old BE. Does size really matter? Do all the undergraduates who go to ND play football or are in the band?

3. Yes 20 conference games are too many.

4. Will UCONN ever get invited to join a P5 conference? See above: football, football, football.

Yup. Exactly right.

Football. Period. Hate it all you want, but that's why. I'm surprised it took 13 posts into this discussion for someone to say it.
 

CL82

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There is so much factually incorrect in this thread, but it seems kind of pointless to go through the detail incorrect it item by item
 

CL82

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I actually think our best shot at joining a P5, should there ever be more expansion, is the B1G.
Why the B1G? What does Connecticut provide that they need?

The B1G was looking for a NY footprint and they thought they got it in Rutgers, but that hasn't worked out the way they wanted.

Disagree. Rutgers has provided them with exactly what they wanted. They got entry into the TV first tier in the lucrative NYC DMA. Additionally, the Big Ten added a state of 9 million people to its footprint. The Rutgers addition was always about dollars for media rights. It did exactly what it was intended to do.

Now fans on the other hand, would’ve preferred a team with more marquee value.
 
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UCONN should follow Stanford's lead, and relocate to Las Vegas during the season, and, all the PAC-12 schools will rotate through Vegas for a game with UCONN
 
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Why the B1G? What does Connecticut provide that they need?



Disagree. Rutgers has provided them with exactly what they wanted. They got entry into the TV first tier in the lucrative NYC DMA. Additionally, the Big Ten added a state of 9 million people to its footprint. The Rutgers addition was always about dollars for media rights. It did exactly what it was intended to do.

Now fans on the other hand, would’ve preferred a team with more marquee value.

How much has Rutgers helped the B1G? In a big business you want to dump any of your smaller companies that aren't doing well, right? Or provide them with additional help in their area because that particular company is not as strong as originally thought?
 
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Nice post. But I want to point out that in 2013, when the BE had 3 of the FF teams fans of a few P5 schools still said their conference was equal at the top and superior below that. Then N Dame went to the supposedly powerful ACC, and went undefeated for the first 2 years they played there? Where was all the great competition P-5 fans always talk about? ND made the ACC look like the BE does vs UConn now. So maybe the BE isn't as bad as UConn has made them appear this season?
I’ve been watching the Big 10 games. Just watched lowly Mich St beat Indiana. Gotta believe UConn would blow through this league just like the AAC and BE. Maybe Maryland would keep a game close. From what I’ve seen, SEC and PAC 12 would offer the best competition, but I do believe the BE will be recognized soon enough.
 

oldude

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How much has Rutgers helped the B1G? In a big business you want to dump any of your smaller companies that aren't doing well, right? Or provide them with additional help in their area because that particular company is not as strong as originally thought?
When Rutgers joined the B1G, the common wisdom was that the addition of Rutgers would open up the lucrative NYC metropolitan area media market to the B1G. How much that’s actually happened I don’t know.

On Saturdays in the Fall, folks in Wisconsin & Minnesota are watching college football. People in the NYC area have many more options.
 
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The knock on our conference often comes up in the context of a UConn superlative. If Stanford, South Carolina, Baylor, Tennessee, or whomever from a P5 conference, were in our shoes the last eight years when we moved to the AAC, does anyone think any of those teams would be 160-0 in conference games? How many more games do UConn detractors think this team would lose in a "tough" conference? Last I checked we were in the strongest basketball conference before being forced into the AAC, and we spent years kicking the crap out of all of those now P5 teams too.

Back in the 1980s before South Carolina joined the SEC, the basketball programs spent time in the Metro Conference for eight seasons. The Metro was what the Conference USA was once before it became the Conference USA. During the years that the Gamecocks were in it, the Metro also had Louisville, Florida State, and Virginia Tech. Also had a few schools that now are in the AAC: Cincinnati, Tulane, Memphis.

It was a different era - not long prior to joining the Metro, the South Carolina program had been built up pretty good under Pam Parsons before all the unpleasantness, and her successor Terry Kelly still had some talent on the roster when he led the program into the new conference. He was succeeded by Nancy Wilson, and she led South Carolina to five Metro regular-season titles and three tournament titles in her seven years as head coach. Led them to five NCAAT appearances - mostly 1st and 2nd RD stops with one Sweet Sixteen, but 2-3 years in the top 25. The team didn't go 160-0, but did go 77-18 in their 8 years in the Metro against conference opponents.

Then we joined the SEC in 1992, when Pat Summitt's Tennessee were in their prime, and other teams were at top strength: Georgia, LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, and Vanderbilt were all Final Four teams in the early 1990s, and Auburn - who was a Final Four team in the late 1980s - was still an Elite Eight level team. Wilson's Gamecocks fell off the Earth: we went 13-54 against the SEC in Wilson's six years in the SEC before being fired. With the exception of a couple years under Susan Walvius where we reached an Elite Eight, the program hadn't really done much until Dawn Staley took over.

Those Gamecocks teams in the early years after joining the SEC wouldn't hold a candle to the teams under Staley over the past eight seasons, I'm positive. Perhaps if these recent teams joined a conference like the AAC today, I don't know if they would go something like 160-0, but in those 8 seasons they've gone 114-14 against the SEC, and 121-22 against all others. Of those, South Carolina is 38-7 in the SECT and NCAAT, so that leaves 83-15 against non-conference foes beginning in 2013-14:

13-14: #14 UNC
14-15: #2 CT
15-16: #1 CT
16-17: NR Duke, #1 CT
17-18: #6 ND, #1 CT
18-19: #9 MD, #9 OR St., NR Drake, #4 Baylor, #4 CT
19-20: #17 Indiana
20-21: #8 NCSU, #2 CT

So of those 15 non-conf. losses, only the Drake loss was the really bad one. The unranked Duke loss was in Cameron. All others (13 losses) were against top 25 opponents, and 11 of the 13 were to top 10 ranked opponents (6 of those to Connecticut).

Of the 14 losses against SEC regular-season foes:

13-14: #25 TXA&M, #10 UT
14-15: #13 UK
15-16: N/A
16-17: NR UT, NR Mizz
17-18: #16 Mizz, #6 UT, #2 Miss St., #15 UT
18-19: #7 Miss St., #16 UK, #5 Miss St.
19-20: N/A
20-21: #21 UT, #3 TXA&M

The 2016-17 losses to unranked Tennessee and Missouri look bad, but Missouri finishes just inside the top 25, and both teams end with 20+ win seasons and advance to the NCAAT, so they were not bad losses, especially compared to how the Gamecock team was that season. All other 12 losses have been to top 25 ranked SEC opponents at the time - 6 of them to top 10 ranked opponents.

So then of 29 total regular-season losses in the past eight seasons - in and out of conference - 25 of them were to top 25 ranked opponents, and 17 of those were to top 10 ranked opponents. In the years that CT was in the AAC, were there many other AAC teams that were top 25 ranked? I know USF was for several years, but don't know of any others.

Certainly the Duke and Drake losses make me doubt that SC would have gone 118-0 in the AAC over the past eight seasons had they been in that conference, but 116-2 sounds very likely. We're talking about SC taking Connecticut's place in the AAC, is what I'm understanding of this - being in CT's "shoes"..... :)

Finally, I feel that the Big East has a much greater chance of growing in strength throughout the conference than the AAC did. As was already stated above, the AAC was a football conference, meaning as long as college football was a part of the total equation, it stood the greater chance of generating revenue above what any other athletic program would, and therefore command a greater focus and respect from the respective athletic departments to ensure those FB programs stay viable.

But the Big East now in its current form, is a primary basketball league, and therefore basketball is the primary revenue generators for the conference. And thus the Athletic Directors will be focusing hardcore on the basketball programs, and making sure they are competitive. This bodes much better for WBB within the league....
 

LETTERL

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Back in the 1980s before South Carolina joined the SEC, the basketball programs spent time in the Metro Conference for eight seasons. The Metro was what the Conference USA was once before it became the Conference USA. During the years that the Gamecocks were in it, the Metro also had Louisville, Florida State, and Virginia Tech. Also had a few schools that now are in the AAC: Cincinnati, Tulane, Memphis.

It was a different era - not long prior to joining the Metro, the South Carolina program had been built up pretty good under Pam Parsons before all the unpleasantness, and her successor Terry Kelly still had some talent on the roster when he led the program into the new conference. He was succeeded by Nancy Wilson, and she led South Carolina to five Metro regular-season titles and three tournament titles in her seven years as head coach. Led them to five NCAAT appearances - mostly 1st and 2nd RD stops with one Sweet Sixteen, but 2-3 years in the top 25. The team didn't go 160-0, but did go 77-18 in their 8 years in the Metro against conference opponents.

Then we joined the SEC in 1992, when Pat Summitt's Tennessee were in their prime, and other teams were at top strength: Georgia, LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, and Vanderbilt were all Final Four teams in the early 1990s, and Auburn - who was a Final Four team in the late 1980s - was still an Elite Eight level team. Wilson's Gamecocks fell off the Earth: we went 13-54 against the SEC in Wilson's six years in the SEC before being fired. With the exception of a couple years under Susan Walvius where we reached an Elite Eight, the program hadn't really done much until Dawn Staley took over.
Being a 40-year follower of WCBB, I appreciate posts like this, that discuss the history of WCBB programs. I remember the Pam Parsons scandal, but I do NOT recall South Carolina having much success under Nancy Wilson...and I had completely forgotten about Terry Kelly. In my fading memory, South Carolina went down in the dumps, and I do remember the early days for the team in the SEC as they tried to compete. I had completely forgotten that South Carolina did so well in the old Metro conference.

I do remember South Carolina's resurgence under Susan Walvius and I will never forget when Tennessee came to town with South Carolina undefeated for a top-10 battle in Columbia. That was a huge event around here with special newspaper sections about the game.

Thank you again for the history lesson about South Carolina's program.
 

npignatjr

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The FB program became irrelevant the moment it joined the AAC. We went D-1, the story goes, to protect our basketball programs. Instead FB became a millstone, pulling our prized hoop down under with it. UConn cut the rope and both teams are flourishing again. If UConn has any chance to go P5, it's going to be with the strength of our BB programs. That's what differentiates UConn from the pack.

And Bueckers committed a few months before the BE announcement. Edwards, Fudd et al. came after. But these things don't happen overnight. I'm sure the coming change was made known to Paige. Geno isn't putting this current crew together in the AAC.
AAC year in and year out has football teams in the top 25, usually one in the top ten.
Didn't KLS, Pheesa, Gabby, Kia, Christian, ONO, AG and AG also join during the AAC years? Who is coming to UConn because they want to play in Providence or Queens or South Orange. They come to play for Geno at UConn, whichever conference they are in.
 

UConnCat

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There is so much factually incorrect in this thread, but it seems kind of pointless to go through the detail incorrect it item by item
Pretty much sums up any discussion of conference affiliation/realignment on this forum.
 
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AAC year in and year out has football teams in the top 25, usually one in the top ten.
Didn't KLS, Pheesa, Gabby, Kia, Christian, ONO, AG and AG also join during the AAC years? Who is coming to UConn because they want to play in Providence or Queens or South Orange. They come to play for Geno at UConn, whichever

1 yes
2 middle of the road
3 ditto
4 which of UConns top players this team come from Big E areas? Was the last great UConn player from the NBE area Tina Charles? WBB is bigger in the South East, Florida, Texas, California, North West, Mid West.
4. I would say Hartley, Dolson, Tuck, Stewart and give Fudd the benefit of doubt sans injury. The entire 2021 recruiting class came from the NBE area.
 

npignatjr

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4. I would say Hartley, Dolson, Tuck, Stewart and give Fudd the benefit of doubt sans injury. The entire 2021 recruiting class came from the NBE area.
Hartley I forgot. Upstate NY nope. Tuck Illinois? That is stretching it, so any player in Eastern and Central time zones and players that haven't arrived yet? If just playing for a BE team mattered wouldn't Tuck go to DePaul or Stewart Syracuse. They went to the coach, the UConn program regardless of conference.
 

MSGRET

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I am not a huge fan of the New Big East even on the men’s side. I think it is pretty overrated and incredibly top heavy. I mean when 1 team wind the regular season 6 times and shares it once in 8 years, and has played in the tournament final 6 times in 7 years that pretty much equals total domination. Maybe not comparable to the women and UConn but still It’s hard to argue that Villanova isn’t head and shoulders above the rest of the league.

Given all that, it is pretty clear that the decision to move to the NBE (this league is not the Original Big East so I don’t say return) was driven by 2 things. 1 was to reduce travel expenses. The other was to satisfy a loud group of men’s basketball supporters who have no interest in UConn beyond mens basketball. If you look at other sports, baseball went from an excellent conference to a one bid league. Women’s basketball went to a much worse league. Football was left out completely. You can pretend that St Johns and Georgetown will up their games. They won’t. Honestly they don’t give a crap. St. John’s about women’s sports. Georgetown about sports In general. If they could figure out a way the Hoyas would happily follow the Ivy League model. My concern about UConn in this league is that whoever follows Geno will not have the influence to avoid moving back toward the balance of the league. If you are an 18 year old all American it is one thing to decide to play in a bad league for the best coach in your sport. It is another to turn down an offer from Soth Carolina and THE SEC or Duke to play for Carla Berube...
You may want to check the Massey ratings when it comes to teams in the Big East vs the American. Both UConn (2) and Marquette (34) are rated higher than USF (35). The Big East 6 teams rated in the Top 70 while the AAC has 4. All of the Big East is in the Top 200, while 2 of the AAC is outside the Top 200. Currently the Big East is rated higher than the AAC, so they are not a much worse league in WBB.
 

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