UCLA's Josh Rosen: "Football And School Don't Go Together"

[History Geek]

Isn't that what professional athletes do? If you're playing a sport in college at the highest collegiate level, wouldn't you expect to have to do this to maintain peak performance and rise to the top of your sport? If you don't like it, go to school and get a real job. That's it.

Back in my day you did it on your own. Now its supervised. Sometimes its "mandatory", sometimes its "not mandatory." However the expectation is that you be there.

 

[UConnRock]

Other college sports are much harder than football. For example, baseball requires weekday games and much more travel. Other sports are like that also. Football players can take summer courses and limit challenging course work-during the season.

 

[huskypantz]

The rest of the world doesn't train soon-to-be professional athletes at universities, because really, when you step back and think about it, it's a really *****' stupid system.

I had some vendor reps visit from Canada a couple of months ago and we got to talking about University. They noted that (other than hockey to some extent) athletics at the university level are largely ignored by the general public.

 

[Nostical]

Nice to see UConn on that list of 25 schools that dominate in both academics and athletics.
As for Rosen, he stated his opinion. Big deal. It's his opinion. We love to ask opinions of college kids and then put them under the critical microscope.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I had some vendor reps visit from Canada a couple of months ago and we got to talking about University. They noted that (other than hockey to some extent) athletics at the university level are largely ignored by the general public.

Europe is the same. Oxford has a crew team and all that, but nobody cares about what rugby or soccer teams they field. No recruiting, just play with whoever you have. The way it once was here.

 

[BNich]

Back in my day you did it on your own. Now its supervised. Sometimes its "mandatory", sometimes its "not mandatory." However the expectation is that you be there.

If you want to get to the next level, you should be there. I imagine, other college sports demands are no different. Look at what Emeka Okafor did at UConn. There are plenty of athletes like this who have succeeded academically while playing sports. Myron Rolle is a pretty remarkable case from FSU. I won't mention UK basketball, because we all know the priority there. The point is, these student athletes get a free education while working toward the professional level in a sport they love. There is much more in life beyond their playing days. School is important. Some get that, some don't.

 

[BNich]

Other college sports are much harder than football. For example, baseball requires weekday games and much more travel. Other sports are like that also. Football players can take summer courses and limit challenging course work-during the season.

You make a fair point. Games are played, for the most part, on one day of the week from september through December. Most of the week is spent at their respective universities. Sports like baseball, that play multiple game series spend much more time on the road. Basketball teams can also play multiple games in a week, not to mention tournament season.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Jimdish255]

Rosen is a serious student who needed specific courses at specific times that came into conflict with football demands. He was honest and in his own case and that of many others largely correct. And mostly taken out of context from the larger conversation so we could pontificate about how stuff oughtta be.

 

[noeynox]

Rosen is a serious student who needed specific courses at specific times that came into conflict with football demands. He was honest and in his own case and that of many others largely correct. And mostly taken out of context from the larger conversation so we could pontificate about how stuff oughtta be.

Yeah, the quote Kannel and DanO, are replying to, is high critical thinking by the kid. Schools tell kids we need you stay eligible if that means you can't classes your major requires, so be it.

 

[Fishy]

As per usual, the Twitter headline and the reactions didn't matchup with what the kid actually said.

“Don’t get me started. I love school, but it’s hard,” Rosen said. “It’s cool because we’re learning more applicable stuff in my major (Economics)—not just the prerequisite stuff that’s designed to filter out people. But football really dents my ability to take some classes that I need. There are a bunch of classes that are only offered one time. There was a class this spring I had to take, but there was a conflict with spring football, so…
[…]
Look, football and school don’t go together. They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way. Then there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers."

That is a thoughtful and nuanced explanation that gets completely lost in 140-characters.

 

[Guapo]

These twitter responses are so dumb.

Classic reactionaries.

 

[noeynox]

As per usual, the Twitter headline and the reactions didn't matchup with what the kid actually said.

“Don’t get me started. I love school, but it’s hard,” Rosen said. “It’s cool because we’re learning more applicable stuff in my major (Economics)—not just the prerequisite stuff that’s designed to filter out people. But football really dents my ability to take some classes that I need. There are a bunch of classes that are only offered one time. There was a class this spring I had to take, but there was a conflict with spring football, so…
[…]
Look, football and school don’t go together. They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way. Then there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers."

That is a thoughtful and nuanced explanation that gets completely lost in 140-characters.

This is what I was trying to say last night using my kid's kindle. Not easy typing on that thing.

I was disappointed to see DanO hitched his wagon to the Danny Kannel' s of the world. I figured he could relate seeing as it took him almost a dozen years post leaving school to earn his degree.

 

[upstater]

He rips Alabama and Clemson. I wonder if this kid knows that Clemson is a really good school.

Alabama, Auburn and virtually all of the SEC schools are more like WVU and Louisville.

Clemson is closer to Alabama than it is to North Carolina.

I'd put it below Alabama actually. but not below LSU. Now that is scratching the bottom of the barrel. Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Vandy > Clemson.

 

[upstater]

Well most simply we can base it off of the US News and World Repot rankings.

If you want to go more indepth, look at how competitive they are to get into; things such as acceptance rate, incoming freshman SAT/ACT scores, validictorians etc etc.

Support for research and teaching is very low.

High teaching loads, low faculty accomplishment, etc., means it is more like Louisville. Heck, even Alabama has more support.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Rosen has a very valid opinion and he's not complaining about the system as far as it effects him. From my understanding, Rosen (barring injuries) is going to be a 1st round pick next season. It's not his plight that he's commenting on.

For all the people tossing in false equivalencies and other examples of how the kid is wrong, why not just touch on the exact thing he was talking about?

Does a high major college football program do everything in its power to make sure the kids on the team are leaving that campus with a degree that should help them if they don't make it to the NFL? Or are they doing the bare minimum so they can take the field for 12 saturdays in the fall for 4 years?

FWIW - At UConn I only had a couple classes with any football/basketball players in them, but I can vouch that the hoops team showed up every class and took the exams like the rest of us.

It was actually comical the professor was some agriculture economics lady and when doing role call she had no idea who anyone was. "Stanley Robinson? Is anyone here friends with Stanley? Do you know if he's arriving late?".

 

[upstater]

I sympathize with Rosen when he talks about not being able to take required classes because of conflicts.

This is increasingly the case.

Some courses that are required are taught only once a year. REQUIRED.

However, it is also true that, like Orlovsky said, non-athletes are in the same boat. Whether it's students working long hours (30+) and taking a full load, or teaching assistants getting paid much much less than football players, some of these kids work 35+ hours a week AND they take PhD Seminars.

While the system is surely perverse, someone have a better system? You cant to go to a club system like the European academies to train players for the pros? That may be the way to go, since it is more efficient money-wise, but there are a great deal many more washouts in Europe (with no education to fall back on).

I'm divided on this. I am against coaches demanding players not take certain classes, coaches railroading players into majors, etc., but I honestly don't have an answer for what you can do with a player who has an 850 SAT and is given a chance at a college education. If he takes his studies seriously, and somehow survives it all, it can be a good thing.

 

[BlueandOG]

Balancing school and life is tough for a lot of people. I was in the Army National Guard and an RA when I was in school. Those pursuits took a lot of time, but I still managed to squeak by academically and have a robust social schedule.

 

[JSM1970]

There are 5 good SEC schools academically

FL, UGA, Mizzou, Vandy, A&M

The remainder are basically community colleges. Alabama is a joke of a university. Decent campus, hot coeds

Clemson is closer to Alabama than it is to North Carolina.

I'd put it below Alabama actually. but not below LSU. Now that is scratching the bottom of the barrel. Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Vandy > Clemson.

 

[Guapo]

I'm guessing you've spent a lot of time on those campuses, interacting with the professors and students? You definitely interact with and work with a bunch of alumni from SEC schools on a day in and day out basis, I'm sure...

Get over yourself.

 

[Drew]

There are 5 good SEC schools academically

FL, UGA, Mizzou, Vandy, A&M

The remainder are basically community colleges. Alabama is a joke of a university. Decent campus, hot coeds

Both Auburn and Alabama have a higher USNWR ranking than Mizzou.

 

[Drew]

Clemson is closer to Alabama than it is to North Carolina.

I'd put it below Alabama actually. but not below LSU. Now that is scratching the bottom of the barrel. Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Vandy > Clemson.

This is completely incorrect.

 

[Jax Husky]

Clemson is closer to Alabama than it is to North Carolina.

I'd put it below Alabama actually. but not below LSU. Now that is scratching the bottom of the barrel. Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Vandy > Clemson.

Your posts about academics in the South always come off as totally elitist. You post about how a kid with an 850 SAT score getting through school "could be a good thing".....in my world, any marginal kid getting a college degree is a great thing.

Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, TAMU, Florida, Georgia, Missouri, and South Carolina are all in the top 60 public universities according to USNews & World Report, but of course, you'll follow up with stats about research and whatnot.

 

[Guapo]

I live and work amongst huge SEC alumni bases here in DC and I have been nothing but impressed by them. For the most part, they are the exact opposite of the stereotype you probably have of them.

They're good people and they love their schools on a much deeper level than just sports.

 

[JSM1970]

Clemson #66
UNC Chapel Hill #30
Alabama #103

So basically right in the middle of the 2

Mizzou #111, thought they were higher. Maybe just because its school of Journalism is basically tops in country

This is completely incorrect.

 

[JSM1970]

I did the same. I find them amazingly annoying. I hate the whole "SEC, SEC, SEC"

Basically they have 2 elite football programs, 1-1/2 hoops and most of the schools are borderline community colleges

No, UK can't beat any NBA teams and 'Bama can't beat any NFL teams

I live and work amongst huge SEC alumni bases here in DC and I have been nothing but impressed by them. For the most part, they are the exact opposite of the stereotype you probably have of them.

They're good people and they love their schools on a much deeper level than just sports.

 

[Guapo]

I did the same. I find them amazingly annoying. I hate the whole "SEC, SEC, SEC"

Basically they have 2 elite football programs, 1-1/2 hoops and most of the schools are borderline community colleges

No, UK can't beat any NBA teams and 'Bama can't beat any NFL teams

1) I've never heard any of them actually say this.

2) I know this is a lie because most SEC alum I know don't really care about, or really acknowledge the existence of, pro sports

 

[JSM1970]

The alumni and students chant it at games

I agree with #2. I've had multiple SEC alums tell me the only "real" football is played on Saturdays

I think the atmosphere and tailgates @ big time college football are great, but the actual product on the field is borderline unwatchable, even at the highest level.

1) I've never heard any of them actually say this.

2) I know this is a lie because most SEC alum I know don't really care about, or really acknowledge the existence of, pro sports

 

[upstater]

Both Auburn and Alabama have a higher USNWR ranking than Mizzou.

Those rankings really suck

 

[upstater]

Your posts about academics in the South always come off as totally elitist. You post about how a kid with an 850 SAT score getting through school "could be a good thing".....in my world, any marginal kid getting a college degree is a great thing.

Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, TAMU, Florida, Georgia, Missouri, and South Carolina are all in the top 60 public universities according to USNews & World Report, but of course, you'll follow up with stats about research and whatnot.

I wrote that a kid with an 850 is a good thing and you somehow countered it. Bizarre.

Not only that. I put several SOUTHERN schools ahead of Clemson and you write that I'm against southern schools. Absurd