TX AD on conference re-alignment

[UConnDan97]

Yuck! You took Soc 107 as a writing class. Ugh! Then again I took an English class as my W and that may have been worse.

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I'll never forget English 109. We began reading "The Sound and The Fury" by Faulkner. We got to about page 100 or so, and then the teacher quit! Good times...

 

[UCFBfan]

I'll never forget English 109. We began reading "The Sound and The Fury" by Faulkner. We got to about page 100 or so, and then the teacher quit! Good times...

My English 109 teacher sent a buddy and I down to get pizza one class because he felt like he was in cloud nine (his exact words). The guy spent more time at the casinos than doing anything for class. Lol!

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[businesslawyer]

"Without doing research"

There we go.....

Jesus christ, do some research or take of your lawyer hat but quit talking out of your a**.

Here is a quote from the University of Oklahoma President, who I am guessing HAS done his research, from right before the GOR was signed:

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/34294/big-12-headed-for-binding-tv-rights



Here is Boren again:

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/big-12big-12s-beebe-out-binding-tv-rights-on-1873832.html

​

Buy the way, Boren IS a lawyer, a Yale graduate and also a Rhodes Scholar.

And, if you truly want to be a dick about it (which you apparently do), Boren went to Yale undergrad. He went to Oklahoma Law School. So if you're stuck on arguments that stupid, he did not go to Yale Law School (as I did), and he does not have a career as a business lawyer (which I do).

That having been said, I have plenty of respect for what Boren has accomplished in his career of public service. But to just argue that there is no "other side" to this debate because a principal on one side of the argument is well respected is beyond idiotic.

 

[docsu]

I love that posters like TuxedoYoda will dismiss Big 12 officials when they say they have no interest in expanding, but then when same officials discuss the GOR act as if the words are coming from the lips of God. Without a hint of irony.

 

[lv99]

Who ultimately owns the media rights to a Big 12 conference game between two schools? Is it the home team - or is it the conference?

The conference would own the rights.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

I love that posters like TuxedoYoda will dismiss Big 12 officials when they say they have no interest in expanding, but then when same officials discuss the GOR act as if the words are coming from the lips of God. Without a hint of irony.

The GOR has been signed. That is not an opinion - it is a verifiable fact.

We've all seen CYA statements and actions by conference commissioners and ADs in the past. We all saw the SEC vote not to expand last year knowing full well they would expand - and they added A&M 3 weeks later. I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May. Most savvy cfb fans understand the reasons for nuance in the public statements against expansion by these Big 12 folks right now.

 

[docsu]

I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May.

HOLY CRAP THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

 

[willie99]

not sure why a contract can't be broken

isn't WVU joining the B12 this year?

 

[lv99]

not sure why a contract can't be broken

isn't WVU joining the B12 this year?

So did you even read any of the posts in this thread? You must not have read my last post... Read it and see if you still have that question...

 

[The Funster]

The GOR has been signed. That is not an opinion - it is a verifiable fact.

We've all seen CYA statements and actions by conference commissioners and ADs in the past. We all saw the SEC vote not to expand last year knowing full well they would expand - and they added A&M 3 weeks later. I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May. Most savvy cfb fans understand the reasons for nuance in the public statements against expansion by these Big 12 folks right now.

Most savvy football fans have been wrong more than they've been right. Most savvy football don't know jack just like the rest of us. Sources, contacts, people in the know, people who are trusted...they spread more disinformation than most of us can bear.

 

[huskypantz]

The conference would own the rights.

So.....if the conference owns the media rights to the conference games, what does a GoR really get you? Especially one that does not include tier 3? Let's say Texas leaves tomorrow for the B1G. The B12 does not get (never had) their tier 3 rights. Texas has tier 1/2 OOC home games and conference games left. Texas's conference game media rights are the property of the B1G, so there is nothing for the B12 to claim. The GoR would basically only include OOC HOME tier 1/2 games.
IF that's truly the case (and not just my theory), how much weight does that GoR really have? I'm thinking it's not enough to keep a team tied to any conference and it's no stiffer a penalty than a 20m exit fee.

 

[lv99]

So.....if the conference owns the media rights to the conference games, what does a GoR really get you? Especially one that does not include tier 3? Let's say Texas leaves tomorrow for the B1G. The B12 does not get (never had) their tier 3 rights. Texas has tier 1/2 OOC home games and conference games left. Texas's conference game media rights are the property of the B1G, so there is nothing for the B12 to claim. The GoR would basically only include OOC HOME tier 1/2 games.
IF that's truly the case (and not just my theory), how much weight does that GoR really have? I'm thinking it's not enough to keep a team tied to any conference and it's no stiffer a penalty than a 20m exit fee.

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games. Tier 3 is basically worthless to the conference anyway, unless you have the contract set up so that something that is really tier 1 or 2 occasionally gets put on a conference network. That's the whole point of tier 3. No regional or national partner wants what's left in tier 3 - that's why it's not tier 1 or 2. The Big 12's media partners would have the right to broadcast Texas's games even if they were in the Big 10. The Big 10 would somehow have to work the games into the Big 10's media broadcasting structure. It would be a real pain because who would broadcast the game, the Big 10's media partners or the Big 12's media partners? Even if they could somehow get beyond that obstacle, there would be no incentive for the Big 10 to add them because they would be getting no money from Texas, and the Big 12 could just add another team and be earning money from the new team. The Big 12 would be making money from not even having their teams play Texas, and they would be getting money from their teams playing the new team. It would be like they'd be getting a whole new team free.

 

[huskypantz]

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games.

You realize that contradicts your earlier post, right?

 

[lv99]

You realize that contradicts your earlier post, right?

How so?

 

[omniorange]

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games.

And how is the Big 12 going to get that TV money? Who is giving it them? ESPN or whoever takes the Tier 1 Big Ten rights in a couple years? The BTN on the Tier 2 rights?

The Big 12 is going to have to go to court to try and get that money just as the Big East had to go to court to try and get WVU to stay.

Good luck seeing a dime of the TV monies. What the Big 12 will see is a negotiated price for reneging on the GOR which won't come anywhere near the full value of Texas' TV rights but will likely be more than a $20 million exit fee.

Everyone wants to equate the Big 12 GOR with the GOR the Big Ten (and now the Pac-12) has. The difference is that each member institution has an equity share of the BTN and whatever the Pac Network will call itself. The BTN is valued at 3 billion dollars. No institution is likely to walk away from an asset that is currently worth $127 million on the books.

There is no comparing the two situations. And if Texas wants to join the BiG (which they don't), I'm sure the BiG will make them an equity partner right away so paying somewhere between $25-$30 million for reneging on the GOR is chicken feed in the long term.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[lv99]

And how is the Big 12 going to get that TV money? Who is giving it them? ESPN or whoever takes the Tier 1 Big Ten rights in a couple years? The BTN on the Tier 2 rights?

The Big 12 is going to have to go to court to try and get that money just as the Big East had to go to court to try and get WVU to stay.

Good luck seeing a dime of the TV monies. What the Big 12 will see is a negotiated price for reneging on the GOR which won't come anywhere near the full value of Texas' TV rights but will likely be more than a $20 million exit fee.

Everyone wants to equate the Big 12 GOR with the GOR the Big Ten (and now the Pac-12) has. The difference is that each member institution has an equity share of the BTN and whatever the Pac Network will call itself. The BTN is valued at 3 billion dollars. No institution is likely to walk away from an asset that is currently worth $127 million on the books.

There is no comparing the two situations. And if Texas wants to join the BiG (which they don't), I'm sure the BiG will make them an equity partner right away so paying somewhere between $25-$30 million for reneging on the GOR is chicken feed in the long term.

Cheers,
Neil

My suggestion would be for you to search for "grant of rights" in Google and read the many articles out there on why a grant of rights contract is considered unbreakable... It sounds like to me you think that because West Virginia got out of their contract, anyone else can get out of any contract anytime they feel like it, and that anybody can get away with anything legally.

The reason West Virginia got out of their contract was because courts normally don't issue injunctions or mandate specific performance when awarding damages is possible. But if I were to sign my car over to someone, I couldn't come back a week later and say I wanted it back... There were be zero chance the courts would side with me.

 

[huskypantz]

How so?

Here you go............

The conference would own the rights.

 

[huskypantz]

My suggestion would be for you to search for "grant of rights" in Google and read the many articles out there on why a grant of rights contract is considered unbreakable... It sounds like to me you think that because West Virginia got out of their contract, anyone else can get out of any contract anytime they feel like it, and that anybody can get away with anything legally.

The reason West Virginia got out of their contract was because courts normally don't issue injunctions or mandate specific performance when awarding damages is possible. But if I were to sign my car over to someone, I couldn't come back a week later and say I wanted it back... There were be zero chance the courts would side with me.

It doesn't matter if the grant of rights is "unbreakable". If Texas left for the B1G, Texas will not own the rights for B1G conference games they play in because, as you responded to me previously, the CONFERENCE OWNS THE RIGHTS. Texas just plays in the games - they CANNOT grant rights to something that they do not inherently own the rights on. The B12 can demand Texas's media rights when they become a member, but what rights does Texas own? Probably just OOC home games, and the B12 can't touch their tier 3's out of that bucket either.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Any network or conference that tried to pay a school a nickel of revenue when that school was in violation of a GOR agreement would be immediately liable for Tortious Interference claims, potentially for the entire amount of any damages sustained by the school in question's prior conference. Good luck getting anyone to jump on that hand grenade.

 

[huskypantz]

This would go to court first, just like WVU. The new conference would not pay the school a dime until a settlement was reached and the school had been granted a release. No TI.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This would go to court first, just like WVU. The new conference would not pay the school a dime until a settlement was reached and the school had been granted a release. No TI.

This is nothing at all like WVU. This is as far from WVU as Melbourne, Australia is from Storrs.

No TV network or conference could pay Texas a single penny of revenue if Texas left the Big 12. Here is what would happen if they so much as sent Texas a fruit basket after Texas tried to walk away from a GOR.

1) The Big 12 would ask for and get an almost immediate injunction preventing anyone from paying Texas or its new conference a nickel for broadcasting Texas' sporting events, or broadcasting those events in the first place. In case you are wondering, if you ignore a court injunction, you go to jail for contempt.

2) Any network or conference that induced Texas to leave the Big 12 and walk on its GOR would now be liable for the entire amount of damages to the Big 12, times three.

3) Criminal penalties may attach if it could be proven there was a fraudulent transfer of assets or a deliberate copyright infringement.

A GOR is not the kind of thing you can just beat in court.

 

[The Funster]

So, I take these GOR's are available for any one to review? Are they on the net?

 

[omniorange]

My suggestion would be for you to search for "grant of rights" in Google and read the many articles out there on why a grant of rights contract is considered unbreakable... It sounds like to me you think that because West Virginia got out of their contract, anyone else can get out of any contract anytime they feel like it, and that anybody can get away with anything legally.

The reason West Virginia got out of their contract was because courts normally don't issue injunctions or mandate specific performance when awarding damages is possible. But if I were to sign my car over to someone, I couldn't come back a week later and say I wanted it back... There were be zero chance the courts would side with me.

There simply is no such thing as "unbreakable" nowadays. If you think otherwise, then so be it.

Let's play the scenario out. Big Ten Tier 1 rights are won by NBC. Texas joins the BiG along with ND. NBC and BTN are televising all the games.

NBC pays the Big Ten. BTN/Fox entity pays the rest to the conference. They aren't sending the Big 12 conference this money. The Big Ten conference is then distributing the checks to its members institutions.

How does the Big 12 get Texas' TV monies from Texas? The only way they can do it is through a long messy court case. Where is the Big 12 conference located again? Texas I believe.

Again, good luck seeing a dime of it. About three years after the court case has started, a settlement agreement is reached.

That is how this will go if Texas leaves, which they aren't.

Cheers,
Neil