TX AD on conference re-alignment

[UConnDan97]

Without doing research will or won't stand the test of litigation when someone wants out.

Nelson, Yoda, and everyone else settle down. It was clear that BizLaw said that he could not predict whether it would or wouldn't stand the test. I have outlined his words in bold for all of you to see. Gentlemen, let's all show a bit of decorum on the board, shall we? The attacks on people are going overboard. We can all debate the issue, but let's do it with UConn class...

 

[The Funster]

Neinas is no fool. He is in the business. I'm sure he told all the schools that if he wanted to be taken sertiously at the negotiating table and bring back serious money he had to do it with a united conference and not one that was ready to fall apart. So he suggests a GOR and everyone agrees and then he says, "See? We're united!" I'll wait to see if they actually go forward with a 13 year GOR. Then I'll want to see how ironclad it really is. To sign away your freedom in such a manner for 13 years seems foolhardy.

 

[CTMike]

It's not THAT foolhardy when it guarantees them all a poopton of money. But I'm definitely curious if we'll see a case where it is challenged. In the meantime, the proof is in the pudding... These GORs have to have some teeth, which is precisely why no members of the BE or ACC want one. Everyone in those conferences is searching for a new home. Not so in the Big12.

Basically, if the GORs weren't worth the paper they are written on, why havent members of the BE gone ahead and done so just to present a unified front?

 

[TuxedoYoda]

It's not THAT foolhardy when it guarantees them all a poopton of money. But I'm definitely curious if we'll see a case where it is challenged. In the meantime, the proof is in the pudding... These GORs have to have some teeth, which is precisely why no members of the BE or ACC want one. Everyone in those conferences is searching for a new home. Not so in the Big12.

Basically, if the GORs weren't worth the paper they are written on, why havent members of the BE gone ahead and done so just to present a unified front?

Everything you say makes complete sense so I fully expect business lawyer to say, while he hasn't done any research, everything you said is laughable.

 

[epark88]

Everything you say makes complete sense so I fully expect business lawyer to say, while he hasn't done any research, everything you said is laughable.

 

[lv99]

Businesslawyer also said that there was no way West Virginia would be allowed to leave...

Here's the reason why a GOR is bullet-proof and why a waiting period is not. You can break any contract you want. You just have to pay damages. This is done all the time in business. Let's say you are manufacturing something, and the raw materials suddenly jump in price. The company will then have to make a decision. Do we want to break our contract, or deliver the finished product and take a loss? It's just a business decision and neither party will be upset with the outcome. Contracts are broken all the time and if you do so, you just pay damages, and no one is upset.

The Big East was lucky to get $20 million for letting West Virginia go early. Why? Because the Big East, as it turned out later, was unwilling to even pay $10 million to get Boise State for next year. If that information had been known beforehand, it would have rightly killed the Big East's case that West Virginia shouldn't be allowed to leave early. It turned out it wasn't even worth $10 million to the Big East to get a replacement team. Both parties most likely both knew this, which is why insiders were reporting there wouldn't be any legal trouble for a Big East team to leave early, as long as they were willing to pay. Lawyers advised both Louisville and West Virginia to go ahead and leave if they got invited and just pay later.

A GOR is bullet-proof because the damages are obvious. It's the value of the contract. In fact, a school couldn't leave and take their rights with them. They would already be owned by the conference. The school would have to sue to get them back.

The Big 10, Pac 12, and Big 12 all have GOR's. This is just the way it's done now. Turns out when you're getting these hugh TV contracts, they kind of like to make sure teams won't be leaving, and they will actually be getting what they paid for...

 

[huskypantz]

Here's the reason why a GOR is bullet-proof and why a waiting period is not. You can break any contract you want. You just have to pay damages. This is done all the time in business. Let's say you are manufacturing something, and the raw materials suddenly jump in price. The company will then have to make a decision. Do we want to break our contract, or deliver the finished product and take a loss? It's just a business decision and neither party will be upset with tA GOR is bullet-proof because the damages are obvious. It's the value of the contract. In fact, a school couldn't leave and take their rights with them. They would already be owned by the conference. The school would have to sue to get them back.

Who ultimately owns the media rights to a Big 12 conference game between two schools? Is it the home team - or is it the conference?

 

[CL82]

Nelson, Yoda, and everyone else settle down. It was clear that BizLaw said that he could not predict whether it would or wouldn't stand the test. I have outlined his words in bold for all of you to see. Gentlemen, let's all show a bit of decorum on the board, shall we? The attacks on people are going overboard. We can all debate the issue, but let's do it with UConn class...

Aw heck, it the off-season and I'm bored.
Gentlemen have at each other!
(We should use the cesspool board to run book on it.)

 

[UConnDan97]

Aw heck, it the off-season and I'm bored.
Gentlemen have at each other!
(We should use the cesspool board to run book on it.)

That's true. The last time I had "UConn class," it was in 1997 and it was Sociology 107W. It didn't teach me much about being "social", so have at it, people!!

 

[UCFBfan]

That's true. The last time I had "UConn class," it was in 1997 and it was Sociology 107W. It didn't teach me much about being "social", so have at it, people!!

Yuck! You took Soc 107 as a writing class. Ugh! Then again I took an English class as my W and that may have been worse.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[UConnDan97]

Yuck! You took Soc 107 as a writing class. Ugh! Then again I took an English class as my W and that may have been worse.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I'll never forget English 109. We began reading "The Sound and The Fury" by Faulkner. We got to about page 100 or so, and then the teacher quit! Good times...

 

[UCFBfan]

I'll never forget English 109. We began reading "The Sound and The Fury" by Faulkner. We got to about page 100 or so, and then the teacher quit! Good times...

My English 109 teacher sent a buddy and I down to get pizza one class because he felt like he was in cloud nine (his exact words). The guy spent more time at the casinos than doing anything for class. Lol!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[businesslawyer]

"Without doing research"

There we go.....

Jesus christ, do some research or take of your lawyer hat but quit talking out of your a**.

Here is a quote from the University of Oklahoma President, who I am guessing HAS done his research, from right before the GOR was signed:

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/34294/big-12-headed-for-binding-tv-rights



Here is Boren again:

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/big-12big-12s-beebe-out-binding-tv-rights-on-1873832.html

​

Buy the way, Boren IS a lawyer, a Yale graduate and also a Rhodes Scholar.

And, if you truly want to be a dick about it (which you apparently do), Boren went to Yale undergrad. He went to Oklahoma Law School. So if you're stuck on arguments that stupid, he did not go to Yale Law School (as I did), and he does not have a career as a business lawyer (which I do).

That having been said, I have plenty of respect for what Boren has accomplished in his career of public service. But to just argue that there is no "other side" to this debate because a principal on one side of the argument is well respected is beyond idiotic.

 

[docsu]

I love that posters like TuxedoYoda will dismiss Big 12 officials when they say they have no interest in expanding, but then when same officials discuss the GOR act as if the words are coming from the lips of God. Without a hint of irony.

 

[lv99]

Who ultimately owns the media rights to a Big 12 conference game between two schools? Is it the home team - or is it the conference?

The conference would own the rights.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

I love that posters like TuxedoYoda will dismiss Big 12 officials when they say they have no interest in expanding, but then when same officials discuss the GOR act as if the words are coming from the lips of God. Without a hint of irony.

The GOR has been signed. That is not an opinion - it is a verifiable fact.

We've all seen CYA statements and actions by conference commissioners and ADs in the past. We all saw the SEC vote not to expand last year knowing full well they would expand - and they added A&M 3 weeks later. I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May. Most savvy cfb fans understand the reasons for nuance in the public statements against expansion by these Big 12 folks right now.

 

[docsu]

I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May.

HOLY CRAP THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

 

[willie99]

not sure why a contract can't be broken

isn't WVU joining the B12 this year?

 

[lv99]

not sure why a contract can't be broken

isn't WVU joining the B12 this year?

So did you even read any of the posts in this thread? You must not have read my last post... Read it and see if you still have that question...

 

[The Funster]

The GOR has been signed. That is not an opinion - it is a verifiable fact.

We've all seen CYA statements and actions by conference commissioners and ADs in the past. We all saw the SEC vote not to expand last year knowing full well they would expand - and they added A&M 3 weeks later. I have been told by someone I trust a great deal that the Big 12 teams all signed off on adding Clemson & FSU at the beginning of May. Most savvy cfb fans understand the reasons for nuance in the public statements against expansion by these Big 12 folks right now.

Most savvy football fans have been wrong more than they've been right. Most savvy football don't know jack just like the rest of us. Sources, contacts, people in the know, people who are trusted...they spread more disinformation than most of us can bear.

 

[huskypantz]

The conference would own the rights.

So.....if the conference owns the media rights to the conference games, what does a GoR really get you? Especially one that does not include tier 3? Let's say Texas leaves tomorrow for the B1G. The B12 does not get (never had) their tier 3 rights. Texas has tier 1/2 OOC home games and conference games left. Texas's conference game media rights are the property of the B1G, so there is nothing for the B12 to claim. The GoR would basically only include OOC HOME tier 1/2 games.
IF that's truly the case (and not just my theory), how much weight does that GoR really have? I'm thinking it's not enough to keep a team tied to any conference and it's no stiffer a penalty than a 20m exit fee.

 

[lv99]

So.....if the conference owns the media rights to the conference games, what does a GoR really get you? Especially one that does not include tier 3? Let's say Texas leaves tomorrow for the B1G. The B12 does not get (never had) their tier 3 rights. Texas has tier 1/2 OOC home games and conference games left. Texas's conference game media rights are the property of the B1G, so there is nothing for the B12 to claim. The GoR would basically only include OOC HOME tier 1/2 games.
IF that's truly the case (and not just my theory), how much weight does that GoR really have? I'm thinking it's not enough to keep a team tied to any conference and it's no stiffer a penalty than a 20m exit fee.

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games. Tier 3 is basically worthless to the conference anyway, unless you have the contract set up so that something that is really tier 1 or 2 occasionally gets put on a conference network. That's the whole point of tier 3. No regional or national partner wants what's left in tier 3 - that's why it's not tier 1 or 2. The Big 12's media partners would have the right to broadcast Texas's games even if they were in the Big 10. The Big 10 would somehow have to work the games into the Big 10's media broadcasting structure. It would be a real pain because who would broadcast the game, the Big 10's media partners or the Big 12's media partners? Even if they could somehow get beyond that obstacle, there would be no incentive for the Big 10 to add them because they would be getting no money from Texas, and the Big 12 could just add another team and be earning money from the new team. The Big 12 would be making money from not even having their teams play Texas, and they would be getting money from their teams playing the new team. It would be like they'd be getting a whole new team free.

 

[huskypantz]

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games.

You realize that contradicts your earlier post, right?

 

[lv99]

You realize that contradicts your earlier post, right?

How so?

 

[omniorange]

The Big 12 would own all of Texas's tier 1 and 2 rights. So even if they were playing in the Big 10, the Big 12 would get all the money from those games.

And how is the Big 12 going to get that TV money? Who is giving it them? ESPN or whoever takes the Tier 1 Big Ten rights in a couple years? The BTN on the Tier 2 rights?

The Big 12 is going to have to go to court to try and get that money just as the Big East had to go to court to try and get WVU to stay.

Good luck seeing a dime of the TV monies. What the Big 12 will see is a negotiated price for reneging on the GOR which won't come anywhere near the full value of Texas' TV rights but will likely be more than a $20 million exit fee.

Everyone wants to equate the Big 12 GOR with the GOR the Big Ten (and now the Pac-12) has. The difference is that each member institution has an equity share of the BTN and whatever the Pac Network will call itself. The BTN is valued at 3 billion dollars. No institution is likely to walk away from an asset that is currently worth $127 million on the books.

There is no comparing the two situations. And if Texas wants to join the BiG (which they don't), I'm sure the BiG will make them an equity partner right away so paying somewhere between $25-$30 million for reneging on the GOR is chicken feed in the long term.

Cheers,
Neil