Trying to be optimistic

[Ts5034]

We are better than every team we've played except Xavier. We should be 8-1. We dominated IU for stretches and clearly should have won that game. We would beat St. Joe's 99 times out of 100. They happened to have an insane shooting day and couldn't miss on a day when we had the opposite. Still almost won. Against Xavier, I thought we had the opposite of the IU game, we played really well, good enough to upset a ranked, superior opponent, and fell just short. People here saying IU isn't good are wrong. We just have some very special players that other teams have trouble with. We sell our team short.

I agree with what you are saying, but looking at everything objectively, we need to turn these 2-3 point losses into wins, and If we were that good right now, we would be 8-1 instead of 6-3. I guess what Im trying to say is that we are what our record says we are. I feel this season has a 50/50 shot of going one of two ways...1- we finally put it together and turn the corner like we did in 2008, or 2- we let these losses snowball, and this season looks more like 2010.

This season up to this point has reminded me very much of 2008 and 2010. We had talent, played teams tough, but just could not beat the good teams on the schedule early, only losing by a few points in games that went down to the wire. In 2008, they finally put it together and ended up a 4 seed in the tournament. 2010 was a different story because outside of those late February wins at Villanova and vs WVU, they never could get over that hump.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

We were better than Xavier, the senior guards gave that one away too.

Xavier was the better team. Again, we might have more talent on paper but on the court they were better. They're the only team this season that I think has been better than UConn. Should be 8-1.

 

[jibsey]

This ain't about Carlton. AG never got better maybe it was the many injuries ( I don't blame him) and Vital ( a fighter) is way too turnover prone and inconsistent. These 2 players will look like stars many times but in critical games then play like they just did. We've seen this show far too many times before.

 

[superjohn]

Xavier was the better team. Again, we might have more talent on paper but on the court they were better. They're the only team this season that I think has been better than UConn. Should be 8-1.

I can agree they are probably better on paper but we outplayed them despite our senior guards playing terribly. We had a 5 point lead with a little over a minute left and then Vital took a horrible shot, they hit a prayer three and then Gilbert once again thought he could drive and make a shot over the trees. Gilbert played totally out of control in the overtimes with help from CV. It's another game we found a way to lose led by the senior guards. In that one they were 4-25 shooting and had pretty much all our losing plays down the stretch.

 

[UofCT]

Excellent point, except that Indiana is not a west coast team, and, last I looked, Bloomington, IN is in the eastern time zone.

Yeah but still

 

[David 76]

Vital is a double-edged sword. Offensively he can get hot from 3. But his ball handling, decision making and shot selection are more-often-than-not poor. On the other hand, the guy plays hard on the defensive end, and wants every rebound. Hard to bench that guy. Now if Adams can be that guy ...

We need them to play. Just sit a player when they are out of control for a few possessions. I think we agree

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Not a lotta new ground being broken on this or any of the other similarly-themed threads.

Vital can't stop shooting = posters who harp on this can't stop harping.

I can't do anything about Vital or those he drives crazy.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Not a lotta new ground being broken on this or any of the other similarly-themed threads.

Vital can't stop shooting = posters who harp on this can't stop harping.

I can't do anything about Vital or those he drives crazy.

Hans..............Bubby
.

 

[freescooter]

Josh was not the problem. He made a number of aggressive baskets. This game was lost on lousy offensives performance by the veteran guards and on Hurley for not reading the riot act to them after two bad possessions in a row in the last 6 minutes of the first half, repeated toward the end of the game. Obviously Vital missed some big FT he doesn’t often miss, but that’s just one of those things that happens and had nothing to do with playing smart.

Our vaunted backcourt scored like 10 points. Carlton was the only reason we weren’t blown out of the building.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

What would Carlton’s rebound stats look like without tipping in all his own misses?

 

[ctchamps]

I don't think we're going overboard, we're having the wrong people take our shots. I don't care how many rebounds Vital gets us, it's ridiculous Vital plays the most minutes and takes the most shots while Bouknight plays half his minutes and takes half his shots. We simply won't have the type of season we could have with things staying the way they are, Hurley has to make changes. Bouknight, Carlton, Akok, and Polley need to take the bulk of our shots.

It’s an overstatement when verifiable evidence exists. Christian took eight shots in this game. His problem wasn’t excessive shooting. It was excessive turnovers.

If you want to talk about the season fine. But most people are discussing this game.

I went out on the limb about Bouknight. I still believe he will be one of our greatest players. But show me what Bouknight was doing in the Indiana game to back up your statement Hurley should have benched CV and played Bouknight in this game.

 

[ctchamps]

What would Carlton’s rebound stats look like without tipping in all his own misses?

Similar to AO if he didn’t miss his bunnies - less.

 

[uconnyankee]

I don't think we're going overboard, we're having the wrong people take our shots. I don't care how many rebounds Vital gets us, it's ridiculous Vital plays the most minutes and takes the most shots while Bouknight plays half his minutes and takes half his shots. We simply won't have the type of season we could have with things staying the way they are, Hurley has to make changes. Bouknight, Carlton, Akok, and Polley need to take the bulk of our shots.

I just don't understand how coaching and scouting talent like this doesn't get noticed more frequently.
This board has the makings of legends and it's only available here.

Hurley is paid millions each year and yet you give this stuff away for free. Hmmmmmmmmm....

Cash in on this coaching talent you have.

 

[superjohn]

It’s an overstatement when verifiable evidence exists. Christian took eight shots in this game. His problem wasn’t excessive shooting. It was excessive turnovers.

If you want to talk about the season fine. But most people are discussing this game.

I went out on the limb about Bouknight. I still believe he will be one of our greatest players. But show me what Bouknight was doing in the Indiana game to back up your statement Hurley should have benched CV and played Bouknight in this game.

I'm talking about how we can get better for the season. Vital being our #1 option will not work, it's never worked. As for the IU game he made two shots and they were both pretty terrible shots (a long forced three with a defender on him and a running banker across the lane he probably traveled on) but yes it was his decision making which was by far the worst part of his game. The 7 turnovers don't even tell the whole story.

I don't have to show what Bouknight was doing in this game for why I think he should have his minutes and offensive workload bumped up. He's our best offensive player and hasn't been given much of a chance to work through mistakes, he makes a couple and we don't tend to see much of him after. Vital is always given enough rope to hang himself and he almost always hangs himself in big games.

 

[superjohn]

I just don't understand how coaching and scouting talent like this doesn't get noticed more frequently.
This board has the makings of legends and it's only available here.

Hurley is paid millions each year and yet you give this stuff away for free. Hmmmmmmmmm....

Cash in on this coaching talent you have.

That really added a lot. Basketball message boards would be so interesting if we all pretended the coach was infallible and nobody commented on the games.

 

[navery12]

This is an overstatement. No one showed up against St. Joes. Hurley did not have them ready to play, and he conceded that. And it's not like everyone but Vitale and Gilbert were lights out against Indiana. The kid that people were worried about keeping in Storrs more than one year a week ago didn't put a single point on the board. I get the frustration with Gilbert and (primarily, in my opinion) Vitale, but we're going a bit overboard.

Nobody showed up for St. Joe's but the first half spiraled out of control when Gilbert and Vital came down and were taking contested 3's with 25 seconds on the shot clock. It's the one time this year I thought Hurley's comment of a losing culture was valid. They got down by 10 and it seemed like they threw in the towel early and gave up

 

[ctchamps]

Not a lotta new ground being broken on this or any of the other similarly-themed threads.

Vital can't stop shooting = posters who harp on this can't stop harping.

I can't do anything about Vital or those he drives crazy.

Several of the posters are not even accurate. He only took eight shots and was disciplined for one. An argument could be made he should have been disciplined for two.

There’s no commentary on the Gilbert three he made with 19 seconds remaining. Why? Because he made it. You and I both know what this place would have been like if he missed. Or if he brought the ball up the court on the last play and missed a shot or had a turnover.

Can you guess the reaction if Hurley instructed Bouknight to take the last shot and it resulted in a miss or a turnover costing us the game?

It probably would have been a predominately different group of “we could do it better” complainers but I bet you and I could come up with a list of those advocating for Bouknight in this thread who would be in that chorus. I won’t point them out. They might identify themselves by calling me out for this brutal assessment of their behavior. Which coincidentally matches their irritation with Christian. The best term I can come up with describing them is “hero fantasizing”. You got any suggestions.

 

[ctchamps]

@superjohn
I'm talking about how we can get better for the season. Vital being our #1 option will not work, it's never worked. As for the IU game he made two shots and they were both pretty terrible shots (a long forced three with a defender on him and a running banker across the lane he probably traveled on) but yes it was his decision making which was by far the worst part of his game. The 7 turnovers don't even tell the whole story.

In another one of your posts I think you were more accurate. You said Christian gives as much as he takes away. I feel he gives more than he takes away but we can agree to disagree. For accuracy the whole story has to include his rebounding, assists, steals, shots made and defensive pressure. Agree Vital should not be the #1 option. The debate is over how Hurley needs to proceed in the transition from Christian to other options.

I don't have to show what Bouknight was doing in this game for why I think he should have his minutes and offensive workload bumped up.

You are stating the obvious.

He's our best offensive player and hasn't been given much of a chance to work through mistakes, he makes a couple and we don't tend to see much of him after.

This is just poor coaching by you and not Hurley. It's a terrific sound bite that doesn't go into detail the circumstances of either the games, this season, or the past. Bouknight is a freshman who is behind many other players in running offenses and defenses. Most coaches give freshman more opportunities in easier games. Bouknight lost some of that opportunity by his own actions when he was suspended for three games.

The last thing you do is allow your most talented player to get into bad habits by allowing him to play through things. You've made this assertion yourself. You among many posters blame KO for not pulling Christian when he made mistakes freshman year as the reason for Christian's play. KO had no choice. He had only six players that year and when Adams was injured there were no other alternatives. Hurley is not repeating that problem because he has alternatives albeit not ideal ones. You do not double down on the very thing you are criticizing.

Furthermore if Bouknight is behind four other starters it interferes with those starters development. They have to dumb down their play to account for him. You don't do that against comparable competition. You don't even do that early in games with inferior competition when those four other starters need a lot more development themselves. The moment you see Bouknight play consistent heady offense and defense you start him over Christian. Not before.

There are exceptions even in this short season. Bouknight played really well in the Xavier game and wasn't pulled for his mistakes. Only his foul situation limited his playing time in that game. Hurley is making decisions game by game and within games that contradict both your and my generalizations.

The number of players that improve and the degree of that improvement determines the season.

Vital is always given enough rope to hang himself and he almost always hangs himself in big games.

This is true. I dislike The Boneyard implying he's selfish or playing hero ball because the implication is he's consciously doing this behavior. I dislike it even more because it's judgmental with the primary purpose intended to attack and demean the kid. But that's a discussion this forum isn't interested in.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

What would Carlton’s rebound stats look like without tipping in all his own misses?

I hope we get to find out.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

He needs to finish around the basket with consistency and regularity. And AUTHORITY. He's too big a dude to miss countless layups and shots close to the basket. He's got no strength to finish among the other big bodies.

I could find a measure of agreement with any of the individual sentences above, but when put together by the same person in the same paragraph, they seem to say that he's got to do that which he is incapable of doing unless he gains strength.

Is that your intention or belief?

Or, are you identifying one of the many as-yet-unanswered questions raised within the opening weeks of a new season? If it's this, I agree.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

That really added a lot. Basketball message boards would be so interesting if we all pretended the coach was infallible and nobody commented on the games.

You'd have a tough time making the case that there's much pretending that the coach is infallible, but if you want to try, I'm open to being convinced that's what's meant by those disagreeing with your hyperbole from two directions.

You seem certain that CV can't moderate or be coached toward doing so. Might the same be said of you?

You suggested that we have alternatives to CV. Do we have alternatives to you?

You're in your 9th season on this particular version of The Boneyard. Is this all we can expect from you?

Are these unreasonable questions on a fan message board? Not if they are directed toward the appropriate person.

Just trying to stay on topic and be optimistic.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

We need to stop comparing this team to Ollie's last few years. We were absolutely horrendous, we know we're nothing like that anymore. We are a good team that should be 9-0 but our seniors have bad decisioned us out of three wins. If it continues we will be a fanbase saying wait until next year instead of dancing. I happen to think we have the talent to go dancing.

Here's hoping you can coach us up.

 

[UconnU]

Starting to believe that the officials just don’t like Hurley. Defensive intensity in the Indiana game was even yet we get called for twice as many fouls. Including a few touch fouls.

Hurley mentioned that he doesn’t like AG splitting defenders. Kemba Walker made a living splitting defenders, getting body fouled in the paint, AG never seems to get the type of calls Kemba did.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Xavier was the better team. Again, we might have more talent on paper but on the court they were better. They're the only team this season that I think has been better than UConn. Should be 8-1.

Not a criticism of you, but there's a printer up in Onondaga County, NY who could probably print 3 sets of t-shirts before next Tuesday's game:

We Should Be 9-0

We Should Be 8-1

We're 6-3

Is it OK if the shirts are orange?

Meantime, with 5 minutes left, Georgetown is up on Syracuse 75-62, and Qudus Wahab has scored 0 points for the depleted Hoyas. Wait, Buddy Boeheim has just his two 3-pointers. It's 77-68 with just under 4 minutes to play. ESPN is putting together footage for "Requiem for the Big East" DVD extras.

#optimism

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Several of the posters are not even accurate. He only took eight shots and was disciplined for one. An argument could be made he should have been disciplined for two.

There’s no commentary on the Gilbert three he made with 19 seconds remaining. Why? Because he made it. You and I both know what this place would have been like if he missed. Or if he brought the ball up the court on the last play and missed a shot or had a turnover.

Can you guess the reaction if Hurley instructed Bouknight to take the last shot and it resulted in a miss or a turnover costing us the game?

It probably would have been a predominately different group of “we could do it better” complainers but I bet you and I could come up with a list of those advocating for Bouknight in this thread who would be in that chorus. I won’t point them out. They might identify themselves by calling me out for this brutal assessment of their behavior. Which coincidentally matches their irritation with Christian. The best term I can come up with describing them is “hero fantasizing”. You got any suggestions.

None, except to allow calendar 2019 to end with suspension of worry and hard conclusions, unless something truly surprising happens in the next 3 games.

 

[Mister P]

Starting to believe that the officials just don’t like Hurley. Defensive intensity in the Indiana game was even yet we get called for twice as many fouls. Including a few touch fouls.

Hurley mentioned that he doesn’t like AG splitting defenders. Kemba Walker made a living splitting defenders, getting body fouled in the paint, AG never seems to get the type of calls Kemba did.

I also thought the officiating was horrible during the Indiana game but I disagree with the premise that officials hate Hurley.
Out of our 9 games this year we have only been called for more total fouls than our opponent in 2 of those games with the Indiana game being one of them. We have actually been called for 16 less fouls than our opponents in total this season.
I think that these are great numbers considering the aggressiveness of our defense.

On camera, Hurley does appear to be whining and complaining to refs all the time however this to me is not indicative to what he’s actually doing and what he’s trying to achieve by doing this.
After seeing him in person and up close in Charleston and at other times on TV he appears to get along very well with most refs. There is a lot of smiling and laughing after Hurley appears to “ chastise” refs. A good coach needs to be addressing refs in certain situations to either question why something was called or to voice his displeasure on the answer or play. He has also nodded and agreed with the refs many times after he was given the reason.
All coaches do this and it does pay dividends at times with “ make up ‘ calls.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Vital is always given enough rope to hang himself and he almost always hangs himself in big games.

This is true.

I dislike The Boneyard implying he's selfish or playing hero ball because the implication is he's consciously doing this behavior.

I dislike it even more because it's judgmental with the primary purpose intended to attack and demean the kid.

But that's a discussion this forum isn't interested in.

My sole quibble here would be that CV has too often (not "always") been "... given enough rope..."

Again, it's the optimism thread, so I hope that the surrounding cast improves to provide more options; that the coaching staff makes lineup adjustments to leverage this: that CV either improves on these identified weaknesses or yields to better options...and that BY posters correspondingly improve.

I thoroughly agree with your words about sefishness, hero ball, and conscious choice to perform poorly. I think that we who write here are more liable to be charged that way, because we are older, and not under pressure of a game clock or opposing defenses.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I also thought the officiating was horrible during the Indiana game but I disagree with the premise that officials hate Hurley.
Out of our 9 games this year we have only been called for more total fouls than our opponent in 2 of those games with the Indiana game being one of them. We have actually been called for 16 less fouls than our opponents in total this season.
I think that these are great numbers considering the aggressiveness of our defense.

On camera, Hurley does appear to be whining and complaining to refs all the time however this to me is not indicative to what he’s actually doing and what he’s trying to achieve by doing this.
After seeing him in person and up close in Charleston and at other times on TV he appears to get along very well with most refs. There is a lot of smiling and laughing after Hurley appears to “ chastise” refs. A good coach needs to be addressing refs in certain situations to either question why something was called or to voice his displeasure on the answer or play. He has also nodded and agreed with the refs many times after he was given the reason.
All coaches do this and it does pay dividends at times with “ make up ‘ calls.

I think he has been working to improve in this area, and that he is making progress.
Again, year 2 of a rebuild stuff.

 

[superjohn]

You'd have a tough time making the case that there's much pretending that the coach is infallible, but if you want to try, I'm open to being convinced that's what's meant by those disagreeing with your hyperbole from two directions.

You seem certain that CV can't moderate or be coached toward doing so. Might the same be said of you?

You suggested that we have alternatives to CV. Do we have alternatives to you?

You're in your 9th season on this particular version of The Boneyard. Is this all we can expect from you?

Are these unreasonable questions on a fan message board? Not if they are directed toward the appropriate person.

Just trying to stay on topic and be optimistic.

You're being weird.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

You're being weird.

Some people do see optimism that way. Mostly, just inviting you to slow down, and doing so with greater hope than you attach to your wish for CV to do similarly.

Let's see where things stand at the close of 2019. We aren't as far away from each other, and this is a 'come together' year, after a period of true weirdness. Besides...

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
- Hunter S. Thompson