Transfer thread

[RSHERMVIKES]

Orangutan, SCGamecock, Carnac, & BroadwayVa, Etal:
I thought that the main idea of THE BONEYARD was to have a discussion about WBB, both WNBA and WCBB.
I wrote some posts above where I stated IMO A. Wilson was "high maintenance" and B. Turner did not have as good an offensive game as some UCONN players!
And you guys come on like how dare I say that. And get all huffy about it! Isn't that what TBY is for? A discussion of different opinions! From a varied field of fans!
I respect your opinions, I don't agree, but that's all right, that's YOUR OPINION!
When AW was in HS being recruited she said she was NOT a Center even though she's 6'5"! She considers herself a SF/PF and sometimes a SG, and didn't want to go to a school to just play Center! That and the way she carries herself IN MY OPINION makes her appear to me to be "high maintenance"! She's still a really good player!
Watching BT play I'm struck by how IN MY OPINION her offensive game is limited compared to some other players at her position! She's still a really good player!
There have been times where I've come off too strong and Nan has slapped me on the hands, and rightly so! I apologize for those times when I go overboard but this isn't one of those times! I just stated MY OPINION about those 2 players!
I didn't insult either girl, I just don't agree with your opinions of them as players!
Let's just agree to disagree!

 

[Carnac]

Orangutan, SCGamecock, Carnac, & BroadwayVa, Etal:
I thought that the main idea of THE BONEYARD was to have a discussion about WBB, both WNBA and WCBB.
I wrote some posts above where I stated IMO A. Wilson was "high maintenance" and B. Turner did not have as good an offensive game as some UCONN players!
And you guys come on like how dare I say that. And get all huffy about it! Isn't that what TBY is for? A discussion of different opinions! From a varied field of fans!
I respect your opinions, I don't agree, but that's all right, that's YOUR OPINION!
When AW was in HS being recruited she said she was NOT a Center even though she's 6'5"! She considers herself a SF/PF and sometimes a SG, and didn't want to go to a school to just play Center! That and the way she carries herself IN MY OPINION makes her appear to me to be "high maintenance"! She's still a really good player!
Watching BT play I'm struck by how IN MY OPINION her offensive game is limited compared to some other players at her position! She's still a really good player!
There have been times where I've come off too strong and Nan has slapped me on the hands, and rightly so! I apologize for those times when I go overboard but this isn't one of those times! I just stated MY OPINION about those 2 players!
I didn't insult either girl, I just don't agree with your opinions of them as players!
Let's just agree to disagree!

OK RSHERMVIKES,

You're absolutely correct. Everyone here yard is welcome to share their opinion(s). Sorry if I offended you, or you felt my reply was adversarial in nature. I read a lot of your posts, and agree with you most of the time.
Please continue to share your thoughts and ideas with us. You're a valued contributor of this thread. Your opinions matter and are welcomed.

No one that comments here expects everyone to agree with all of their posts all the time. Lord knows I've been called out a time or two or three on some of my comments. I submit to you that the term "high maintenance" is subjective. It can have a different meaning or concept to different people.

As I've commented many times, I enjoy the input of fans and supporters from other teams. I enjoy and look forward to comments from those you mentioned above along with easttexastrash who I've gone around and around with on several occasions. However, each time we did, it was done with civility and mutual respect.

I posted a comment that was responded to by others that made me change my position because they had information that I did not have. On a couple of occasions, a poster(s) shared a perspective with me that I had not thought of, which made me reevaluate my position on that particular topic.

I may get some push back on this, but, I agree that opinions should not be criticized because their are simply one's observation and conclusion of something based on written information, a visual observation ,or jt simply a "gut feeling" that one has. Some see the glass as half empty, others, half full. If a poster give us something and represents them to be facts, those can be checked, verified and challenged. You can't check an opinion for facts.

In my opinion, this was a beautiful day. You can't challenge that. Maybe YOUR day was lousy and sucked, but that was YOUR day, not mine. Sometimes I may get carried away (huffy) with myself. Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I come here to learn and gather information, not to shoot messengers. As to your point: "Let's just agree to disagree". We can do that. So, in short, your comments are duly noted my friend, and I look forward to your next round of comments.

 

[SCGamecock]

OK RSHERMVIKES,

You're absolutely correct. Everyone here yard is welcome to share their opinion(s). Sorry if I offended you, or you felt my reply was adversarial in nature. I read a lot of your posts, and agree with you most of the time.
Please continue to share your thoughts and ideas with us. You're a valued contributor of this thread. Your opinions matter and are welcomed.

No one that comments here expects everyone to agree with all of their posts all the time. Lord knows I've been called out a time or two or three on some of my comments. I submit to you that the term "high maintenance" is subjective. It can have a different meaning or concept to different people.

As I've commented many times, I enjoy the input of fans and supporters from other teams. I enjoy and look forward to comments from those you mentioned above along with easttexastrash who I've gone around and around with on several occasions. However, each time we did, it was done with civility and mutual respect.

I posted a comment that was responded to by others that made me change my position because they had information that I did not have. On a couple of occasions, a poster(s) shared a perspective with me that I had not thought of, which made me reevaluate my position on that particular topic.

I may get some push back on this, but, I agree that opinions should not be criticized because their are simply one's observation and conclusion of something based on written information, a visual observation ,or jt simply a "gut feeling" that one has. Some see the glass as half empty, others, half full. If a poster give us something and represents them to be facts, those can be checked, verified and challenged. You can't check an opinion for facts.

In my opinion, this was a beautiful day. You can't challenge that. Maybe YOUR day was lousy and sucked, but that was YOUR day, not mine. Sometimes I may get carried away (huffy) with myself. Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I come here to learn and gather information, not to shoot messengers. As to your point: "Let's just agree to disagree". We can do that. So, in short, your comments are duly noted my friend, and I look forward to your next round of comments.

Yeah, what Carnac said....

I can't top that so I'll just cosign.

 

[CocoHusky]

Orangutan, SCGamecock, Carnac, & BroadwayVa, Etal:
I thought that the main idea of THE BONEYARD was to have a discussion about WBB, both WNBA and WCBB.
I wrote some posts above where I stated IMO A. Wilson was "high maintenance" and B. Turner did not have as good an offensive game as some UCONN players!
And you guys come on like how dare I say that. And get all huffy about it! Isn't that what TBY is for? A discussion of different opinions! From a varied field of fans!
I respect your opinions, I don't agree, but that's all right, that's YOUR OPINION!
When AW was in HS being recruited she said she was NOT a Center even though she's 6'5"! She considers herself a SF/PF and sometimes a SG, and didn't want to go to a school to just play Center! That and the way she carries herself IN MY OPINION makes her appear to me to be "high maintenance"! She's still a really good player!
Watching BT play I'm struck by how IN MY OPINION her offensive game is limited compared to some other players at her position! She's still a really good player!
There have been times where I've come off too strong and Nan has slapped me on the hands, and rightly so! I apologize for those times when I go overboard but this isn't one of those times! I just stated MY OPINION about those 2 players!
I didn't insult either girl, I just don't agree with your opinions of them as players!
Let's just agree to disagree!

I think what you are bouncing up against are personal sensitivities as opposed to a difference of opinions. I have been guilty of this on both sides: using sensitive words to express my opinion and them overreacting when someone else uses words that strike my nerves. You don't have to wait long for someone on the Boneyard to disagree with you and it is probably a shorter wait before you strike a nerve. The key is to try and understand the difference. My personal examples: I used the word Diva in my description of Sabrina Ionescu multiple hesitations to make up her mind and was appropriately challenged about that. I am also Hyper-sensitive when a player chooses a school other than UCONN and someone will inevitably say something like "That player did want to be great" or "That player was not up to the challenge of playing ay UCONN". The words "High maintenance" struck a nerve in your post as did the my use of the word Diva, "IMO" does nothing to calm the nerves but examples might.

PS A'ja seeing herself as a guard was a long time ago and dates back to her AAU and HS days. She is now an AA Forward and the SEC player of the year mainly because she has a great coach and role model as examples. She carries herself just fine-same way she would carry herself if she choose to go to college at UCONN.

 

[BIGMAC]

I see this has been totally hijacked. Can we just end it and move on?

 

[SCGamecock]

I know its popular to mock A'ja for considering herself a guard at one point but like CocoHusky said, that was in the past.. we have to remember that at one time A'ja WAS a guard. She grew into a post seemingly overnight and it took a while for her game/playing abilities to catch up to her new post body. She just didn't think of herself as a post yet..

 

[meyers7]

I may get some push back on this, but, I agree that opinions should not be criticized because their are simply one's observation and conclusion of something based on written information, a visual observation ,or jt simply a "gut feeling" that one has. Some see the glass as half empty, others, half full. If a poster give us something and represents them to be facts, those can be checked, verified and challenged. You can't check an opinion for facts.

I'll bite. Completely disagree with you. Many (many) opinions on here are stupid, obnoxious, illiterate, malicious, lower the IQ of anyone who reads them. These MUST be criticized and responded to harshly in order to maintain some decency and some level of intelligence around here.

This board (WBB) has lost so much these last couple of years, those of us who remember, must strive to maintain the last vestiges of what this once great site was.

 

[SciHiGuy]

Putting aside the style of writing... there are substantive issues that are worth discussing. The Women's game is distinguishable from the men's game because there is a proliferation of 5'10" high school centers (who stopped growing) and another huge group of young women who dominate at the town, travel or AAU level as guards... and then have significant growth spurt that encourages coaches at every level to mislabel and deploy them as "big men" if for no reason other than they are the biggEST available player. The confidence, comfort level, and team mentality of the player oftentimes trails the physical maturity. Since the whole front line in Division I is most often populated by players who are between 5'10 and 6'2... the distinctions between what is a forward and a center are more subjective than in the Men's game. So Jamelle (never a 6 footer on her best day) was an All-America power forward while DT, probably 3" taller was never a frontline consideration. A'ja was one of those growth spurt "victims" and, like Stewie, could probably be a dominant player at guard. She could certainly force crazy switches when she posted other guards...

As for civility...crazy opinions spur the most entertaining discourse. We all know what limits are...although current politics suggest that those limits have become blurred.

 

[SciHiGuy]

P.S. The Division III college that I attended made the NCAA Championships this year, and was rated in the final top 15. They had no impact player or starter over 6 feet. They were all guards in my mind, although they had an All-American (Hon. Mention) and League Player of the Year Center.

 

[UcMiami]

I think what you are bouncing up against are personal sensitivities as opposed to a difference of opinions. I have been guilty of this on both sides: using sensitive words to express my opinion and them overreacting when someone else uses words that strike my nerves. You don't have to wait long for someone on the Boneyard to disagree with you and it is probably a shorter wait before you strike a nerve. The key is to try and understand the difference. My personal examples: I used the word Diva in my description of Sabrina Ionescu multiple hesitations to make up her mind and was appropriately challenged about that. I am also Hyper-sensitive when a player chooses a school other than UCONN and someone will inevitably say something like "That player did want to be great" or "That player was not up to the challenge of playing ay UCONN". The words "High maintenance" struck a nerve in your post as did the my use of the word Diva, "IMO" does nothing to calm the nerves but examples might.

PS A'ja seeing herself as a guard was a long time ago and dates back to her AAU and HS days. She is now an AA Forward and the SEC player of the year mainly because she has a great coach and role model as examples. She carries herself just fine-same way she would carry herself if she choose to go to college at UCONN.

Good analysis of 'hot button' terms that will create vehement challenges on the board. And something that the moderators tend to be sensitive to. Overall, it is the comments about personality traits and personal ambitions rather than on-court demeanor and skills that most touch nerves. We can argue about ball handling or shooting form or team play and not get too heated because we are all looking at the same tape, but when we attribute motivation and personality to players who none of us know personally and few have met based on the very limited information and exposure we have to them, it is presumptuous of us. And based on most of us being considerably older with a history of questionable decisions in our own youth ...

Specific to Wilson, I do think her HS coach was a bit of a jackass for slamming USA basketball for 'misusing' her talents and not allowing her to play PG and wing for the USA team her junior year - he more than anything Wilson said started that very persistent impression people have. From her time at SC I haven't seen anything that suggests she has been a problem for the coaching staff or resisted their playing her 15 feet and in rather than on the three point line. That she did not want to be typecast as a back to the basket center is perfectly understandable and she has performed mostly as a power forward at SC, which is the position she will likely continue to play as a pro.

The same situation I believe exists with Turner - people attributing attitudes to her that do not stand up to observable behavior on the court or between her and her coaches.

 

[Orangutan]

Orangutan, SCGamecock, Carnac, & BroadwayVa, Etal:
I thought that the main idea of THE BONEYARD was to have a discussion about WBB, both WNBA and WCBB.
I wrote some posts above where I stated IMO A. Wilson was "high maintenance" and B. Turner did not have as good an offensive game as some UCONN players!
And you guys come on like how dare I say that. And get all huffy about it! Isn't that what TBY is for? A discussion of different opinions! From a varied field of fans!
I respect your opinions, I don't agree, but that's all right, that's YOUR OPINION!
When AW was in HS being recruited she said she was NOT a Center even though she's 6'5"! She considers herself a SF/PF and sometimes a SG, and didn't want to go to a school to just play Center! That and the way she carries herself IN MY OPINION makes her appear to me to be "high maintenance"! She's still a really good player!

If you look at my initial post I did not challenge your right to your opinion at all. I simply stated that I saw no evidence to back up your opinion and that I felt her statistics pointed to someone who *is* playing as a post player. If indeed she prefers to play more on the perimeter, the fact that she has no 3s but many blocks indicates to me that she is able to put aside personal preference and perform the role her team most needs. To me, that is the opposite of being "high maintenance" is clear evidence that she is a "team player".

Short version - you are welcome to your opinion. My opinion is that your opinion was poorly supported and that the facts we have actually contradict your opinion. That's all.

It's actually an interesting subject. Stevens is a passable 3-point shooter and that versatility is a big asset but I have wondered if playing on the perimeter has served her well. I think she could possibly more effective (and she is already VERY effective) if she focused on being a beast in the post. Of course, at Duke she the problem of basically having only Greenwell as reliable spacing. So when they did try to feed the post she was probably doubled & tripled. I'd have to check the footage - I think ND mostly single covered her with Turner but Turner is one of the very few players who has the athleticism and length to do that.

 

[UcMiami]

If you look at my initial post I did not challenge your right to your opinion at all. I simply stated that I saw no evidence to back up your opinion and that I felt her statistics pointed to someone who *is* playing as a post player. If indeed she prefers to play more on the perimeter, the fact that she has no 3s but many blocks indicates to me that she is able to put aside personal preference and perform the role her team most needs. To me, that is the opposite of being "high maintenance" is clear evidence that she is a "team player".

Short version - you are welcome to your opinion. My opinion is that your opinion was poorly supported and that the facts we have actually contradict your opinion. That's all.

It's actually an interesting subject. Stevens is a passable 3-point shooter and that versatility is a big asset but I have wondered if playing on the perimeter has served her well. I think she could possibly more effective (and she is already VERY effective) if she focused on being a beast in the post. Of course, at Duke she the problem of basically having only Greenwell as reliable spacing. So when they did try to feed the post she was probably doubled & tripled. I'd have to check the footage - I think ND mostly single covered her with Turner but Turner is one of the very few players who has the athleticism and length to do that.

Nice post but I'll disagree just a bit - one of my complaints about college coaches in general is that they too often settle for the 'effective' with their players within the team concept and neglect to push them to expand their games. Stevens has a very effective inside out and outside in offensive game and she should be working on those skills throughout her four years, because she will be better in college and even better as a pro if she has that kind of polished game. I do not see any reluctance on her part to mix it up inside, just a willingness to do both. Stewart needed to be pushed to play more inside and to welcome the physical play, KML had to be pushed to add post-up play and work off the dribble rather than just hanging on the three point line as a spot up shooter.

Griner for example I think should have been pushed to take 15' jump shots (3 to 5) in every game, because she has a really soft touch and good accuracy and it is almost impossible to double/triple team a player 15 feet out who is willing to pass to an open teammate, and she is quick enough to drive against a single defender. She is still not as effective as a pro as she could be, or as say Tina is, who was pushed to develop and take those shots during college.

 

[Padutch5]

P.S. The Division III college that I attended made the NCAA Championships this year, and was rated in the final top 15. They had no impact player or starter over 6 feet. They were all guards in my mind, although they had an All-American (Hon. Mention) and League Player of the Year Center.

OK, I'll bite. What D III team? Albright by any chance?

 

[Orangutan]

Nice post but I'll disagree just a bit - one of my complaints about college coaches in general is that they too often settle for the 'effective' with their players within the team concept and neglect to push them to expand their games. Stevens has a very effective inside out and outside in offensive game and she should be working on those skills throughout her four years, because she will be better in college and even better as a pro if she has that kind of polished game. I do not see any reluctance on her part to mix it up inside, just a willingness to do both. Stewart needed to be pushed to play more inside and to welcome the physical play, KML had to be pushed to add post-up play and work off the dribble rather than just hanging on the three point line as a spot up shooter.

Griner for example I think should have been pushed to take 15' jump shots (3 to 5) in every game, because she has a really soft touch and good accuracy and it is almost impossible to double/triple team a player 15 feet out who is willing to pass to an open teammate, and she is quick enough to drive against a single defender. She is still not as effective as a pro as she could be, or as say Tina is, who was pushed to develop and take those shots during college.

Good points. Developing her outside skills will certainly serve her long term, especially given the direction the pro game is heading (more pace & space). I just felt that sometimes as an opposing fan I was scared of her size and athleticism on the inside and was happy for her to hang around the perimeter on offense. Not a knock on her - I think she was playing her prescribed role.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Thanks for your comments/feedback! This page (20), is a perfect example of what makes THE BONEYARD one of the best message boards around! I love it when a topic is dissected into many areas and the discourse is expressing ALL the possibles and even the chiding adds to the discussion!
I realize I can be a royal pain in the ass when I passionately explain my points but that is just me being me!
When I form my opinions or beliefs I am like a pit bull not letting go so I hope I don't offend while stating but I'm VERY passionate about WBB (and my Yankees for that matter), and I watch a lot of games and see things that I cannot fathom happening game-to-game, such as the total incompetence of WBB referees! And the the WNBA is worse than WCBB!
I sit watching the games screaming at the TV, "moving screen", "charging", "foul", etc. and wondering how the officials can get $500.00+ each game and be so horrible! How can they be evaluated and still hold their job?
So let's continue to discuss WBB but realize that "the difference" in each of us makes this site better!

And thanks to Nan for reining me in when I start going over that invisible line!

 

[UcMiami]

I'm VERY passionate about WBB (and my Yankees for that matter), and I watch a lot of games and see things that I cannot fathom happening game-to-game, such as the total incompetence of WBB referees! And the the WNBA is worse than WCBB!

I was with you until you mentioned those damn yankees!

The interesting thing is generally TV viewers have a much better angle than the refs who can so easily be blocked by the other players on the court and because they are so close to the action do not see the whole play as it develops but only a section of the action. After watching lots of WNBA games for the first time (thank you league pass!) I am really amazed at how poor the refs are. The inconsistency is terrible. In the last few weeks I have rematched some Uconn games from the past few years and the contrast is stark - the college refs are actually a lot better than the pros and I don't think the speed or physicality of pro ball is what makes the difference - there just seems to be a much better understanding of incidental contact vs. real fouls and a greater interest in not penalizing defenders who have a right to their own space.

 

[SciHiGuy]

OK, I'll bite. What D III team? Albright by any chance?

Close, but who wants to go to Reading, when you can vacation in Bethlehem?

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Anyone have any news about transfers? I thought that's what this thread was
supposed to be about.