Transfer Portal Starting to Load

[FfldCntyFan]

Please spare me the earn it in practice cop out. Mahaney did not earn a starting job in practice. You saw that for yourself at the one you went to.

He kind of proved this year all that stuff was baloney

Did you see Nowell when he was given playing time this past season? The best pass he threw was one right in the opponent's hands.

There were about a half dozen things going on that you know nothing about. Of greater importance, you're jumping to a conclusion (that because Mahaney seriously underperformed, Nowell had to be a better option) based entirely on conjecture.

Maui hurt this team on many levels, one of them being that it destroyed the confidence that a few players had in their abilities and in some cases things continued to deteriorate. There were also injuries in play, some kept people out of games, others just limited some players slightly.

I can assure you that if any player demonstrated that he belonged on the floor for serious minutes, he would have received serious minutes.

 

[Deleted at users request]

It’s not even the developing freshman thing that’s weird. It’s that the way you develop freshmen is by playing them when they’re not ready. And craziest of all, THAT’S HOW CALHOUN DID IT.

Lol we already went over 90% of the players who had an impact in the Calhoun era played their freshman years. Man what are you talking about?

Stop saying stuff just because you think it sounds smart when it’s dumb.

Mahaney started 5 total games all year when he was brought in to be the starting PG. I think he kind of proves the point that PT is earned.

The fact that he ever started proved it wasn’t. He was handed the job. He didn’t earn it. And it was only taken away because he forced the coaches to have to take it away.

 

[DRBackup]

It’s not even the developing freshman thing that’s weird. It’s that the way you develop freshmen is by playing them when they’re not ready. And craziest of all, THAT’S HOW CALHOUN DID IT.

I'd be curious what your top example of Calhoun giving major PT to a freshman that wasn't ready. Even more curious of an example on a team that wasn't bad.

 

[auror]

Looks like Creighton is going to get Iowa's Owen Freeman, one of the top bigs in the portal.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'd be curious what your top example of Calhoun giving major PT to a freshman that wasn't ready. Even more curious of an example on a team that wasn't bad.

You should pose this question to Warrior611, not Big Ern.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I'd be curious what your top example of Calhoun giving major PT to a freshman that wasn't ready. Even more curious of an example on a team that wasn't bad.

I’m more curious on the top example of the freshman Calhoun didn’t give PT too that ended up being major players for us.

All of Calhoun’s freshman seemed to be ready or got ready.

The biggest example of Calhoun going with a freshman and forcing him into the lineup in hopes it sped up his progress and not working was Deandre Daniels. And he did it over returning national champions Roscoe Smith and Niels Giffey.

It didn’t work, but he tried because his philosophy was you get guys ready by playing them in general. Not through no stupid practice where they have to earn minutes there first.

(You see how I give clear examples of these things and not just say stuff cause it sounds good making stuff up out of thin air)

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Your post is accurate...our guys earn PT. Nowell didn't deserve it, Hass did. I'm not complaining about the botched evaluation of Mahaney... it's over and done with.

My big question--which will probably never be answered--is how on earth in an entire summer and fall or practices did the staff not collectively realize that Aiden isn't up to the task of a starting PG? I've heard D1 coaches, including Tom Moore himself, say that your rotation is obvious by the time the games start.

How does a kid go from our starting PG getting more PT than Hass to barely being playable sometimes? How was that not visible in practice, and how are we going to change our practice evaluations so it never happens again? We probably have another win and a 7-seed this year if we didn't botch that.

I kind of get it. They’ve got two years of film from St. Mary’s and the hope that he works through the growing pains in the early games, especially since the first four were cupcakes. I’m sure the decision was largely based on his St. Mary’s performance and not offseason performance.

 

[husky429]

Slick has an absolute knack for taking the biggest headcases and getting them to play together. I don't like the guy, but even in his 70s, he's got something special going on over there.

 

[husky429]

I kind of get it. They’ve got two years of film from St. Mary’s and the hope that he works through the growing pains in the early games, especially since the first four were cupcakes. I’m sure the decision was largely based on his St. Mary’s performance and not offseason performance.

Probably. And that also goes against everything Hurley has said about "earning it practice," right?

Like I said...I doubt it will ever be said outside of the closed-door war room, but the staff have got to be kicking themselves over that right now. Knowing our ability to adapt, it won't happen again.

 

[Fatroony5]

Your post is accurate...our guys earn PT. Nowell didn't deserve it, Hass did. I'm not complaining about the botched evaluation of Mahaney... it's over and done with.

My big question--which will probably never be answered--is how on earth in an entire summer and fall or practices did the staff not collectively realize that Aiden isn't up to the task of a starting PG? I've heard D1 coaches, including Tom Moore himself, say that your rotation is obvious by the time the games start.

How does a kid go from our starting PG getting more PT than Hass to barely being playable sometimes? How was that not visible in practice, and how are we going to change our practice evaluations so it never happens again? We probably have another win and a 7-seed this year if we didn't botch that.

I’d argue 2-3 more wins if we’re talking about getting a player like Sion James over Mahaney instead. Imagine being able to play lineups with a bigger guard like that. This team would’ve looked a lot different.

 

[Shine21]

 

[caw]

I'd be curious what your top example of Calhoun giving major PT to a freshman that wasn't ready. Even more curious of an example on a team that wasn't bad.

The obvious answer was the 2011 team because they started three freshmen at all times that year I believe, at least two. Olander, Giffey and Lamb started the first game. Roscoe, Okwandu and Napier started some also I believe. Now this was obvious due to necessity as the roster was Kemba, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Oriakhi and 7 freshmen. I think the only freshman who didn't start was Wolf. And the other six all saw tons of minutes. I wouldn't say they were all "ready" though they did perform better than hoped.

 

[DogMania]

That was fast, right in Pitinos wheel house. Vitamin Water strikes. StJ with a massive head start on us if they retain everyone due to come back.

I'm sure it's been brought up many times, but opening the Portal on March 24th while 16 teams are still playing does not create an even playing field.

There should be a date when players can begin to put their name in the portal and a different date when programs can start reaching out to players we should be after the NCAA Championship game, and another date when players can begin to announce their decision, another day when players can no longer declare for the portal and finally a date when the window closes.

This should be time for coaching staff to evaluate who's coming back and who's leaving and wher their needs are. And then the floodgates can open.

How two coaches even have time to evaluate players in the portal. They obviously need people on the staff to be doing research leading up to the portal on what players would fit their needs and system even before names are thrown into the ring.

With that said, UConn is no longer playing, and should have a general idea of what their priority needs are regardless what current players might enter the portal. They clearly need a big experienced combo guard who can initiate the offense and attack the paint and defend, and a long wing who can also attack the paint and defend. Adding another experience 4/5 combo who can rebound, block shots and score little inside would be nice as well.

They have some good freshman coming in but they really need a few experienced players who fit the system and be productive sooner than later.

 

[husky429]

I’d argue 2-3 more wins if we’re talking about getting a player like Sion James over Mahaney instead. Imagine being able to play lineups with a bigger guard like that. This team would’ve looked a lot different.

I'm not talking about the recruiting. That just happens sometimes, and I'm talking about starting and playing him 20-25 for the first bit of the season.

 

[UCfor3]

Tom Izzo today:

It’s a pretty bad message if I can do whatever I want and not get benched for the freshman just because I’m an upperclassman and they are a freshman.

Sorry that I’m a believer in meritocracy and not seniority.

Fun memory of freshman Tyler Olander cutting up Syracuse 2-3 zone. That seems virtually impossible today because the assumption would be that there’s no way he can even give a team the chance to win. And we’re talking bottom of the barrel recruit (no offense Big T you did great things)

It is a meritocracy. Nowell did not look good or ready in the minutes he got. Mahaney was playing better at the end of the year. Nowell was worse than Mahaney on defense, shooting and getting the ball up the court. The decision was made by the 2x champ coach who with his great staff has seen these players in practice every day and watched the game film of both. He is trying to win, not lose. Either you are being purposely obtuse and argumentative because you like to rail against Hurley for sport, or you think you know more than our coaches. I'd say take the L and move on, but clearly you can't or don't want to admit the possibility that you may be wrong here.

 

[Fatroony5]

I'm not talking about the recruiting. That just happens sometimes, and I'm talking about starting and playing him 20-25 for the first bit of the season.

That’s fair. I just also like to imagine how differently things would’ve played out if that evaluation hits or they get another player (insert whatever productive pg here). Team had its issues but they weren’t that far off, especially if they nailed that guard spot. Really shows how difficult it is to compete at the top year in year out.

 

[BGesus4]

if Pitino can get sanon from a Hurley we can get dent from a Pitino. Simple mathematics

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It is a meritocracy. Nowell did not look good or ready in the minutes he got. Mahaney was playing better at the end of the year. Nowell was worse than Mahaney on defense, shooting and getting the ball up the court. The decision was made by the 2x champ coach who with his great staff has seen these players in practice every day and watched the game film of both. He is trying to win, not lose. Either you are being purposely obtuse and argumentative because you like to rail against Hurley for sport, or you think you know more than our coaches. I'd say take the L and move on, but clearly you can't or don't want to admit the possibility that you may be wrong here.

I remember reading somewhere that freshmen can get better with good coaching.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

All this talk about the SEC and B1G dominating hoops in the future, well maybe not...

 

[RuffRuff]

I remember reading somewhere that freshmen can get better with good coaching.

611's post log? I've never seen anything like it. He's siting Calhoun for the 800th x as grounds for developing freshmen. It's rare you come across a more baseless argument. Meanwhile we have the portal blowing open where everyone is for sale, including developed freshmen, lol.

Focusing on developing freshmen is single handedly the dumbest strategy on the planet in today's landscape, truly the dumbest. If they are bonafide ready to help you win in the given year, go for it. Otherwise play the players that will help you win that year.

 

[DRBackup]

I’m more curious on the top example of the freshman Calhoun didn’t give PT too that ended up being major players for us.

All of Calhoun’s freshman seemed to be ready or got ready.

The biggest example of Calhoun going with a freshman and forcing him into the lineup in hopes it sped up his progress and not working was Deandre Daniels. And he did it over returning national champions Roscoe Smith and Niels Giffey.

It didn’t work, but he tried because his philosophy was you get guys ready by playing them in general. Not through no stupid practice where they have to earn minutes there first.

(You see how I give clear examples of these things and not just say stuff cause it sounds good making stuff up out of thin air)

So Giffey and Daniels both played about 10 mpg in 2012, Roscoe Smith 18 mpg. Keeping in mind that as the season wound down, the last 4 losses that season, Daniels was DNP, 3 min, DNP, DNP. If that is the top example, this notion is kaput.

 

[boog204]

I never understand this argument. Our coaches aren't playing less talented players on purpose. Why would anyone do that? When someone is good enough to contribute... they play.

The whole premise is idiotic. Our staff, lauded as one of the best in the country, plays the guys they think will give us the best chance of success. We saw, very clearly, mind you, how overmatched the player in question was when he EARNED the PT.

 

[DRBackup]

The obvious answer was the 2011 team because they started three freshmen at all times that year I believe, at least two. Olander, Giffey and Lamb started the first game. Roscoe, Okwandu and Napier started some also I believe. Now this was obvious due to necessity as the roster was Kemba, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Oriakhi and 7 freshmen. I think the only freshman who didn't start was Wolf. And the other six all saw tons of minutes. I wouldn't say they were all "ready" though they did perform better than hoped.

The key part of the equation, however is "wasn't ready". For one, he didn't have a choice, and I'm not sure I call the team that won in Maui full of "not ready" freshmen.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

611's post log? I've never seen anything like it. He's siting Calhoun for the 800th x as grounds for developing freshmen. It's rare you come across a more baseless argument. Meanwhile we have the portal blowing open where everyone is for sale, including developed freshmen, lol.

Focusing on developing freshmen is single handedly the dumbest strategy on the planet in today's landscape, truly the dumbest. If they are bonafide ready to help you win in the given year, go for it. Otherwise play the players that will help you win that year.

Balance. It is like the NBA. You can't build a team solely through free agency (transfer portal) because it is just too expensive. As Marquette proved, you can't build a team solely through the "draft" (recruiting), because there are always a couple of misses. You need to get it right on both.

Balance.

 

[Deleted at users request]

So Giffey and Daniels both played about 10 mpg in 2012, Roscoe Smith 18 mpg. If that is the top example, this notion is kaput

Deandre Daniels started 8 of the first 10 games of the season.

Look at his early season minutes. Calhoun tried, it didn’t work, and he moved on elsewhere. But he gave him a very thorough chance.

DeAndre Daniels 2011-12 Game Log | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

2011-12 Game Log for DeAndre Daniels

www.sports-reference.com