Tour de France | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Tour de France

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fishy said:
If you take the average dedicated road cyclist and compare him to the average dedicated mountain bike rider, generally, the road cyclist will have the edge in fitness and strength. It's a function of the activity, not the particular person.

A number of top pros have been mountain bikers - Peter Sagan, Ryder Hesjedal, Bob Roll, etc.

There is something to be said for long, sustained aerobic efforts. Anyone who has ever trained for a marathon or some other endurance event spends months putting out that sort of effort every week. If your plan has you running 65 or 70 miles a week, 55-60 of those will be relatively easy, another 5-8 might be near the lactic threshold and then a tiny fraction will be anaerobic.

And weight loss is a math problem. If energy out exceeds energy in, you will lose weight - despite the claims of fad authors everywhere, the laws of physics do not cease to exist inside the human body.
Expand ...


You took the words out of my mouth on weight loss. It is a math problem. Foods high in nutrients and rest will allow you to sustain the caloric deficit for longer.

Most of the people who think that road riding is an inherently easier workout are people that just haven't ridden road bikes hard enough.

This winter I am doing something different. Going to try and get in 6-10 cyclocross races and when that's done I will spend the rest of the winter on the trainer with a power meter doing lactate threshold. I do long slow rides in the winter on weekends and that ultimately leads to getting sick. Racing season starts here in the last week of February with some crits that are really more like road races.

Once the weather warms up again, I'll go back to the long slow distance rides.
 
Sorry Zoo,

You are the one who is confusing the influence of money and media exposure with conditioning.

I never argued that road cycling is not producing more/better athletes at the elite level. But I attribute it to a) having a significantly bigger pool of participants b)having significantly more money to spend on the best fitness and nutrition coaches money can buy and c) competing for international prestige.

In the same NY Times article Hesjedal said he left mountain biking because he was frustrated with the lack of respect it gets, not because one becomes a better athlete by riding over a smooth surface instead of a bumpy one. You and Fishy demonstrate that disrespect.

As to my supposed lack of understanding of how the body utilizes energy. Not sure where that even came from. But you two are dismissing the theories of benefits from high intensity interval training, muscle confusion/adaptation, and forced mental focus/correction (more about brain age). I know these ideas are in their infancy of understanding but you guys seem to be implying that the debate is over and it's all B.S.

I didn't say I only log 5 hrs a week because that's all I need or want in the saddle. I didn't say that is equivalent to 20 hrs on the road. 5 hrs a week is all I have time for. For me, I know I can squeeze a lot more benefit out of that time in the woods. I am certain that the exercise that gets people motivated to preform is the best one for them.
 
Zoo,

I'm not saying that road riding is inherently easier, I'm saying technical mountain biking is necessarily hard. You can ride casually on the road. The trails I ride will have you at your lactic acid threshold over and over again or doing a lot of pushing. Those trails will necessarily have you focused on your line or you will crash.

This discussion started with me saying that crit races looked like a great way of forcing a rider to maximize expenditures and maintain focus. You guys turned it into road>off road.
 
If I had more money, I'd hire a full time taxi service for my children, triple my time in the saddle, and be generating a lot more watts very quickly.
 
.-.
tdrink said:
Sorry Zoo,

You are the one who is confusing the influence of money and media exposure with conditioning.

I never argued that road cycling is not producing more/better athletes at the elite level. But I attribute it to a) having a significantly bigger pool of participants b)having significantly more money to spend on the best fitness and nutrition coaches money can buy and c) competing for international prestige.

In the same NY Times article Hesjedal said he left mountain biking because he was frustrated with the lack of respect it gets, not because one becomes a better athlete by riding over a smooth surface instead of a bumpy one. You and Fishy demonstrate that disrespect.
Expand ...

Dude, you are way too sensitive.

I raced a mountain bike for the first time in 1986 when I was a teenager - even now, I have two of them and I actually live in one of the better areas of the northeast for mountain biking.

No one is disrespecting anything, they're expressing opinions, so ease up.
 
ZooCougar said:
You took the words out of my mouth on weight loss. It is a math problem. Foods high in nutrients and rest will allow you to sustain the caloric deficit for longer.

Most of the people who think that road riding is an inherently easier workout are people that just haven't ridden road bikes hard enough.

This winter I am doing something different. Going to try and get in 6-10 cyclocross races and when that's done I will spend the rest of the winter on the trainer with a power meter doing lactate threshold. I do long slow rides in the winter on weekends and that ultimately leads to getting sick. Racing season starts here in the last week of February with some crits that are really more like road races.

Once the weather warms up again, I'll go back to the long slow distance rides.
Expand ...


They are free to come out for our local Monday-Wednesday training rides - the pointy end of the pack goes 50-55 miles in 2:15-2:25.

I can't stand the trainer. It just bores the crap out of me and even watching television doesn't help pass the time on it. Every winter, I use it for an hour and then declare that I'll never touch it again. We do have some training rides in the winter, but this is the Hudson Valley and the roads go to hell most of the winter.

A lot of us will run in the winter instead. A friend and I are a little more serious than that and we'll use the winter to train for a spring marathon and then run on days off the bike through the summer so we're set for either the longer trail races in the fall, a fall marathon or something like the Escarpment Run in the Catskill Mountains in July. (Think you're in shape...run that sucker. It's 19 miles up and down five peaks in the Catskill Mountain range. The elevation change is murderous and you finish dented, bruised and usually bleeding from somewhere - going up or down stairs is an adventure for a few days afterwards.)
 
Stage 18 was unreal. Too bad Teejay couldn't finish it off. Insane course.

Cycling has changed my life and is already making my 40-60 health much better than my 20-40 health. Still haven't done my first century but I will do it.

I have both mountain and road bikes, but road ride 98% of the time. Need to go up to Asheville for a Mtn bike trip. Spin class has really helped my hill climbing, plus having some hot chicks in the class does not hurt.
 
What's with Froome and the illegal feeds? The dude seems to need his "special" sauce during the climbs. He's done it a few times in this race.
 
Fishy said:
Dude, you are way too sensitive.

so ease up.
Expand ...


Just expressing opinions myself. I'm sorry if I come across heavy handed. It's not the first time I've been accused of that.

But I got to say, I'm far from the first person who believes you skinny tire guys feel like you are looking down on the rest of us.

http://www.adventure-journal.com/2011/01/reader-poll-which-sport-has-the-smuggest-participants/

Heat wave is over tomorrow, just in time for my ride day. I will STFU, climb on the bike and spend some time in the woods with everyone I don't routinely piss off. Yes, I ride alone.
 
I can deal with the trainer for some reason. Ever since I bought one I started the season literally months ahead of where I would normally be.

This weekend was a 52 mile road race. 22.5 mph avg speed in Cat 4 we caught the Masters Field peloton and were in sight of their break away, what a stupid layout.

This morning 45 miles with friends in the aerobic zone and 30 miles on my own for and giggles.

I am at almost 20 mass starts on the year, never been stronger.


Fishy said:
They are free to come out for our local Monday-Wednesday training rides - the pointy end of the pack goes 50-55 miles in 2:15-2:25.

I can't stand the trainer. It just bores the crap out of me and even watching television doesn't help pass the time on it. Every winter, I use it for an hour and then declare that I'll never touch it again. We do have some training rides in the winter, but this is the Hudson Valley and the roads go to hell most of the winter.

A lot of us will run in the winter instead. A friend and I are a little more serious than that and we'll use the winter to train for a spring marathon and then run on days off the bike through the summer so we're set for either the longer trail races in the fall, a fall marathon or something like the Escarpment Run in the Catskill Mountains in July. (Think you're in shape...run that sucker. It's 19 miles up and down five peaks in the Catskill Mountain range. The elevation change is murderous and you finish dented, bruised and usually bleeding from somewhere - going up or down stairs is an adventure for a few days afterwards.)
Expand ...
 
.-.
tdrink said:
But I got to say, I'm far from the first person who believes you skinny tire guys feel like you are looking down on the rest of us.
Expand ...

Persecution by "skinny tire guys"! That's funny. Reminds me of NASCAR fans whining about the lack of respect from the fans of "stick-and-ball" sports.
 
Most skinny tire guys ride fat tires too. I've never complained about owning too many bikes.
 
Aw man, I missed this thread. didn't think to look for it here. Zoo, did you get kicked off twitter or something?

Well... I was looking forward to the Wiggo-Froomedog drama on Sky, but then Wiggo crashed out of the Giro and Froome would probably have a death grip on Sky's #1 spot for whichever Grand Tour he wants from here on out. I even followed Michelle Cound on twitter hoping for some juicy smack talk but that didn't happen. My team, Garmin, had a decent tour, the next couple years will be focusing on developing Dan Martin and Andrew Talansky, hope both of them don't get lured to another team with a bigger budget. I think Tejay will be back on form next year and I think he will be on a grand tour podium in the next 2-3 years.

Side note - I think Marcel Kittel, if he re-signs with Argos or goes to another team with a good lead-out, could really make life hard for Mark Cavendish in the latter half of his career. Cav and OPQS looked very average this time around, though there were fewer sprint stages to get their game plan refined.

Anyway, those projections on the Arc de Triomphe in the evening were really cool huh?
 
junglehusky said:
Aw man, I missed this thread. didn't think to look for it here. Zoo, did you get kicked off twitter or something?

Well... I was looking forward to the Wiggo-Froomedog drama on Sky, but then Wiggo crashed out of the Giro and Froome would probably have a death grip on Sky's #1 spot for whichever Grand Tour he wants from here on out. I even followed Michelle Cound on twitter hoping for some juicy smack talk but that didn't happen. My team, Garmin, had a decent tour, the next couple years will be focusing on developing Dan Martin and Andrew Talansky, hope both of them don't get lured to another team with a bigger budget. I think Tejay will be back on form next year and I think he will be on a grand tour podium in the next 2-3 years.

Side note - I think Marcel Kittel, if he re-signs with Argos or goes to another team with a good lead-out, could really make life hard for Mark Cavendish in the latter half of his career. Cav and OPQS looked very average this time around, though there were fewer sprint stages to get their game plan refined.

Anyway, those projections on the Arc de Triomphe in the evening were really cool huh?
Expand ...
I agree with you on Talansky and Kittel. I could see those two becoming the standard bearers down the road.
 
junglehusky said:
Aw man, I missed this thread. didn't think to look for it here. Zoo, did you get kicked off twitter or something?

Well... I was looking forward to the Wiggo-Froomedog drama on Sky, but then Wiggo crashed out of the Giro and Froome would probably have a death grip on Sky's #1 spot for whichever Grand Tour he wants from here on out. I even followed Michelle Cound on twitter hoping for some juicy smack talk but that didn't happen. My team, Garmin, had a decent tour, the next couple years will be focusing on developing Dan Martin and Andrew Talansky, hope both of them don't get lured to another team with a bigger budget. I think Tejay will be back on form next year and I think he will be on a grand tour podium in the next 2-3 years.

Side note - I think Marcel Kittel, if he re-signs with Argos or goes to another team with a good lead-out, could really make life hard for Mark Cavendish in the latter half of his career. Cav and OPQS looked very average this time around, though there were fewer sprint stages to get their game plan refined.

Anyway, those projections on the Arc de Triomphe in the evening were really cool huh?
Expand ...
I agree with all of this here. I think the writing may ALREADY on the wall for Cav though-not that he's "done" or anything like that, but I think the torch has been passed and all things being equal in the last 1k I think the new norm will be to expect Kittel. Against all rational thought I was pulling for "Mother F&Cking" Jens Voigt on Stage 20. Tejay came awful close on some tough, late stages and Talansky got better in the 3rd week so I agree that both of those US guys are on the way up. Go Garmin!
 
There was a rumor that OPQS was in the market for Mark Renshaw, haven't checked if that was confirmed or not. That might be the answer for Cav considering the success they had together back on Columbia-HTC-Highroad.
 
.-.
Geez. Last I remember Renshaw was when he head-butted someone on the leadout a few years back.
 
junglehusky said:
Aw man, I missed this thread. didn't think to look for it here. Zoo, did you get kicked off twitter or something?

Well... I was looking forward to the Wiggo-Froomedog drama on Sky, but then Wiggo crashed out of the Giro and Froome would probably have a death grip on Sky's #1 spot for whichever Grand Tour he wants from here on out. I even followed Michelle Cound on twitter hoping for some juicy smack talk but that didn't happen. My team, Garmin, had a decent tour, the next couple years will be focusing on developing Dan Martin and Andrew Talansky, hope both of them don't get lured to another team with a bigger budget. I think Tejay will be back on form next year and I think he will be on a grand tour podium in the next 2-3 years.

Side note - I think Marcel Kittel, if he re-signs with Argos or goes to another team with a good lead-out, could really make life hard for Mark Cavendish in the latter half of his career. Cav and OPQS looked very average this time around, though there were fewer sprint stages to get their game plan refined.

Anyway, those projections on the Arc de Triomphe in the evening were really cool huh?
Expand ...

Jungle,

Taking a break from twitter. Last summer ago I was getting PMs from Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis (@Graymanrod) though and it was waaay more interesting.

I like Garmin, I hate Sky. I wish they would set Ian Boswell and Joe Dombrowski free.

I am really getting enthused with Taylor Phinney. That win in the Tour of Poland last week was pretty impressive, he is turning into a younger version of Cancellara. I am also 100% positive that he is clean, the younger Americans won't even take IV's or finish bottles. Garmin even has a no needle policy.
 
Great attack and win today by the youngster Lachlan Morton in the tour of Utah... rockin' the Michael Cera stache.
 
The Sporting Director for OPQS was the same one that was Sporting Director Columbia-HTC. Pretty obvious that he is trying recreate those conditions for Cavendish. For these teams, their sponsors get ROI through wins. Plus OPQS is a Belgium team, and Belgium is to cycling what Alabama and Texas are to football. They are insane. It's probably the one country over there where cycling is the #1 sport other than the Netherlands perhaps.

When a Belgian team like OPQS doesn't show well in the Classics they get pilloried in the media. They either win or people start getting fired.
 
tdrink said:
Just expressing opinions myself. I'm sorry if I come across heavy handed. It's not the first time I've been accused of that.

But I got to say, I'm far from the first person who believes you skinny tire guys feel like you are looking down on the rest of us.

http://www.adventure-journal.com/2011/01/reader-poll-which-sport-has-the-smuggest-participants/

Heat wave is over tomorrow, just in time for my ride day. I will STFU, climb on the bike and spend some time in the woods with everyone I don't routinely piss off. Yes, I ride alone.
Expand ...

Honestly, I haven't encountered this. Not doubting it exists. Around KC we have more road racing than anything but most of the serious people are in every race, weather it is road, crits, TTs, MTB and Cyclocross. Cyclocross is a really big deal in Kansas City, there is a race nearby nearly every weekend in the fall.
 
.-.
ZooCougar said:
Honestly, I haven't encountered this. Not doubting it exists. Around KC we have more road racing than anything but most of the serious people are in every race, weather it is road, crits, TTs, MTB and Cyclocross. Cyclocross is a really big deal in Kansas City, there is a race nearby nearly every weekend in the fall.
Expand ...


Zoo, I never meant to blast you or Fishy, you seem like a good guy and good ambassador for the cycling community. I think of myself as a cyclist, not just a mountain biker. But the group of riders I bike with has little crossover road to mountain, and almost no one I bike with races or ever talks about racing. We ride trails, build trails and maintain trails ( we even blow the leaves off of trails in the fall). We talk about beer and wether we should let our daughters go out on dates with guys who show up in high powered sports cars. Almost no one i ride with tracks distance or speed on rides. We essentially compete against ourselves.

That poll is really just a joke and doesn't mean anything, but of course vibing happens. The results of the poll are more of a reflection on the interaction with people doing the sport. Road bikers are high profile. Everyone who drives has some interaction with them. I've had far wore attitude dumped on me while golfing and the one time I tried surfing. But there are some aspects of the road bike culture that seem a little weird - like shaving your legs, for example.
 
Nothing weird about it at all LOL. Your legs get filthy on 60-70 mile ride, it's easier to get embrocation to work and road rash with leg hair? No thanks.
 
Anyone watching the Vuelta on Universal Sports? I think that day in, day out this has been better racing than the Tour. Has an American won the Vuelta before? It's about to happen.
 
I've been reading some of the reports on cyclingnews but will try to catch a stream today if the boss isn't looking over my shoulder. Horner is a warrior... he was sort of a peripheral guy during the doping era, so I don't know if he was clean or not (since he wasn't on Postal he wasn't a witness against Armstrong) but he is an interesting guy. Would love for him to work for NBC when he retires, though I'd guess he might want to go into managing a team.
 
junglehusky said:
I've been reading some of the reports on cyclingnews but will try to catch a stream today if the boss isn't looking over my shoulder. Horner is a warrior... he was sort of a peripheral guy during the doping era, so I don't know if he was clean or not (since he wasn't on Postal he wasn't a witness against Armstrong) but he is an interesting guy. Would love for him to work for NBC when he retires, though I'd guess he might want to go into managing a team.
Expand ...

Horner is really strong on climbs where the grade is insane, meaning 20% and up. I remember a few years ago where he dominated his teammate Levi Leipheimer on Mt. Baldy in th Tour of California.

It helps that he was hurt all spring and in the early summer. Nibali is class rider but he absolutely doesn't have the legs.

I tend to think that Horner is probably clean. He has never been a big contract guy, it takes a ton of private cash and a legion of helpers to run an effective doping program. If he was on the hot sauce I think something would have popped by now, it's even more expensive to keep it quiet.

As a GC guy, his failing has always been in time trials. Usually the dopers have absurd TT and unexplained performances is TTs. Like a 130 lb Contador besting Cancellara in a windy TT.

Don't want to spoil today's results...
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,640
Messages
4,587,442
Members
10,497
Latest member
Orlando Fos


Top Bottom