Top 50 Uconn players - The dumbest thing you'll read all day via theuconnblog

[HuskyHawk]

I suppose we'd have to define "great" first.
It could mean "most talented."
It could mean "best stats."
It could mean "most valuable to team."
It could mean "most successful."
and so on.
It comes down to something like this - on the greatness scale, are Marino and Montana even close? Depends on your definition. If you use 1 and 2. If you use 4, then Montana.

I'd define greatness as a complicated combination of value to value to team and success.

Talent is wonderful.
But winning is where it's at.

Create a scale. Add winning and value to team together. Kemba is highest. That's greatness to me. It's hard to be "great" when your team does poorly, especially in a 5 man game like basketball.

But I could certainly see why some would say Allen is the greatest UConn player. It's almost indisputable that he had more talent and better stats than Kemba.

I like all of this but the conclusion. "It's hard to be "great" when your team does poorly, especially in a 5 man game like basketball." So why did the 09-10 team do so poorly with Walker as starting PG? I think last year is still too fresh, and the shock of the NC from that unexpected team has not worn off. On the winning scale, I'd have to put Rip or KEA at the top of the list.

 

[Kitaman]

I look at it this way - and reasonable people can disagree.

Take Ray off the team. Take Mek off the team. Take KEA off the team.

How do they do?

If you take Kemba off the 11 team . . . and I'm trying not to exaggerate here, they don't make the NIT and they may not win a Big East game.

Put him on and they win the NC.

No other player comes remotely close to being that important.

That's greatness.

Ergo - he gets the 1 spot from me, and the 2nd guy is a distant second guy.

Not a reassuring post to read before the start of our season.................

 

[Prezidint]

Not a reassuring post to read before the start of our season.................

Very funny!
Well the math is simple

(UConn 2011) <=> (UConn 2011)-(Kemba,Jamal Coombs-McDaniel,Bev,Chuck)+(DD,AD,The Boat Show,Allen,Bradley)

Of course, the summer experience of the returnees should be factored in.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Ray Allen is number 1. Sorry.

Depends what you mean by "best." Most talented UConn play ever? Probably. But he didn't ever win a National Championship.

For me, I'd say Rip Hamilton. He won the elusive first, and he pretty much dragged that team on his back. Okafor had a much better supporting cast than Hamilton did. Plus, y'know... that game against Duke is still my all-time greatest sporting memory ever. Probably didn't hurt that I was on campus for the impromptu party/riot afterwards.

 

[HuskyFan32]

That point can be argued. Kemba was the best possible leader a coach could ask for, but look who his coach was. I wouldn't count out Calhoun finding a way to bring out the talent in those two somehow.

I 100% agree. I didnt argue that Lamb or bazz wouldnt turn out to be great players. Calhoun certainly wouldve developed them. Im just saying, their maturation wouldnt be as quick without Kemba and neither would be as good as they are today without him.

 

[Deadrody]

Do you have to be an condescending ******* every time you post? Can you be miserable somewhere else?

Bite me. You really need people chiming in on UConn history that don't even know who played on which team TWO YEARS AGO ? No, I don't abide stupidity

 

[Deadrody]

He had one spectacular season. The best ever by a UConn player. But doing it over time is the hallmark of greatness. I'd say Donyell, Ray, Rip and Emeka all had a bigger impact on multiple successful seasons.

One spectacular season ? He was a key contributor on a Final Four team, including a clutch performance in the final eight, without which they don't MAKE the Final Four. As a freshman. How many of the three you mention even made a SINGLE final four ? One. The other two made NONE. And Kemba carried his team of far less experienced players on his back not just TO the final four, but to the national championship. I'm not even sure "spectacular" does it justice.

Oh and while we're at it, lets also remember than Kemba Walker came as close to winning the player of the year award as Emeka or Ray. Frankly, all three of them were robbed.

Greatest ever. Hands down.

 

[Deadrody]

Well saying Ray "doesnt have a chance" disqualifies you from having an opinion. Ray may not be #1, but he def "has a chance".

Not compared to Kemba Walker he doesn't. Frankly, I think you are inserting far too much post-UConn Ray Allen lore here. When he left UConn in 1996 he was not reverred to any degree greater than Kemba Walker is now, and nothing he did at UConn comes close to what Kemba Walker did in 2010-11.

 

[HuskyFan32]

Not compared to Kemba Walker he doesn't. Frankly, I think you are inserting far too much post-UConn Ray Allen lore here. When he left UConn in 1996 he was not reverred to any degree greater than Kemba Walker is now, and nothing he did at UConn comes close to what Kemba Walker did in 2010-11.

Did you read my post? I actually agree that Kemba should be #1 since he saved our program from falling into mediocrity, but to say Ray doesnt have a chance is absurd. Overall, Ray had the better career, but Im giving Kemba the #1 spot based on his miraculous once in a lifetime season. But im pretty sure that its close and Kemba isnt head and shoulders above Ray Ray.

 

[Deadrody]

For comparison purposes - Here is the UConn 1000 point scorer's list and reference to their position on the list

1.) CHRIS SMITH, 2,145 pts. (#8 on the list -7)
2.) RICHARD HAMILTON, 2,036 pts. (#3 on the list -1)
3.) TONY HANSON, 1,990 pts. (#10 on the list -7)
4.) RAY ALLEN, 1,922 pts. (#4 on the list --)
5.) CORNY THOMPSON, 1,810 pts. (#13 on the list -8)
6.) BEN GORDON, 1,795 pts. (#11 on the list -5)
7.) KEMBA WALKER, 1,783 pts. (#1 on the list +6)
8.) WES BIALOSUKNIA, 1,673 pts. (#9 on the list -1)
9.) CLIFF ROBINSON, 1,664 pts. (#15 on the list -6)
10.) KHALID EL-AMIN, 1,650 pts. (#14 on the list -4)
11.) DONYELL MARSHALL, 1,648 pts. (#5 on the list +6)
12.) MIKE McKAY, 1,633 pts. (#21 on the list -9)
13.) JEROME DYSON, 1,630 pts. (#30 on the list -17!!!)
14.) JEFF ADRIEN, 1,603 pts. (#24 on the list -10)
15.) EARL KELLEY, 1,592 pts. (#18 on the list -3)
16.) SCOTT BURRELL, 1,562 pts. (#16 on the list --)
17.) KEVIN FREEMAN, 1,476 pts. (#20 on the list -3)
18.) RASHAD ANDERSON, 1,432 pts. (#33 on the list -15!!!)
19.) EMEKA OKAFOR, 1,426 pts.(#2 on the list +17)
20.) ART QUIMBY, 1,398 pts. (#6 on the list +14)
21.) PHIL GAMBLE, 1,371 pts. (#27 on the list -6)
22.) TOBY KIMBALL, 1,361 pts. (#7 on the list +15)
23.) AL WESTON, 1,342 pts. (Not in the top 50)
24.) JOEY WHELTON, 1,337 pts. (Not in the top 50)
25.) DORON SHEFFER, 1,329 pts. (#26 on the list -1)
26.) BOB STAAK, 1,288 pts. (Not in the top 50)
27.) A.J. PRICE, 1,284 pts. (#19 on the list +8)
28.) VINCENT YOKABASKAS, 1,275 pts. (#35 on the list -7)
29.) DENHAM BROWN, 1,267 pts. (#37 on the list -8)
30.) TATE GEORGE, 1,247 pts. (#34 on the list -4)
31.) STANLEY ROBINSON, 1,231 pts. (#38 on the list -7)
32.) BILL CORLEY, 1,219 pts. (#17 on the list +15)
33.) ALBERT MOURING, 1,214 pts. (Not in the top 50)
34.) DONNY MARSHALL, 1,197 pts. (Not in the top 50)
35.) TONY ROBERTSON, 1,160 pts. (Not in the top 50)
36.) ROD SELLERS, 1,143 pts. (Not in the top 50)
37.) CARON BUTLER, 1,136 pts. (#12 on the list +25)
38.) BRIAN FAIR, 1,130 pts. (Not in the top 50)
39.) BOB BOYD, 1,122 pts. (#36 on the list +3)
40.) JACK ROSE, 1,116 pts. (Not in the top 50)
41.) JIM ABROMAITIS, 1,084 pts. (#40 on the list -1)
42.) TALIEK BROWN, 1,039 pts. (#29 on the list +13)
43.) HASHEEM THABEET, 1,028 pts. (#23 on the list +20)
44.) CAL CHAPMAN, 1,023 pts. (Not in the top 50)
45.) TIM COLES, 1,016 pts. (#39 on the list -6)

OTHERS:
Rudy Gay (#22 on the list +28)
Walt Dropo (#25 on the list +25)
Ricky Moore (#28 on the list +22)
Kevin Ollie (#31 on the list +19)
Marcus Williams (#32 on the list +18)
Ron Hrubula -(#41 on the list +9)
Al Cooper - (#42 on the list +8)
Charlie Villanueva - (#43 on the list +7)
Josh Boone - (#44 on the list +6)
Travis Knight - (#45 on the list +5)
Jake Voskhul - (#46 on the list +4)
Alex Oriakhi - (#47 on the list +3)
Nadav Henefeld - (#48 on the list +2)
Jeremy Lamb - (#49 on the list +1)
Andre Drummond - zero games played

I'm going to re-order this list based on +/- and see if we can come up with an ranking adjustment for both rebounds and assists, as well as team success. Clearly those are the biggest modifiers. I'm also going to see if I can find a way to account for less than 4 seasons.

Based on this comparison, so far, the one that needs to come down the most is Rudy Gay. Great recruit. Not a "great Husky", per se. Should be on the list, but not #22. Am I seeing some Rudy Gay in Walt Dropo as well ? His profile talks about playing in MLB. So ?

The guy getting dropped the worst is Rashad Anderson. Granted, one dimensional player, but a prolific scorer and as clutch as clutch could be. Was a MAJOR factor in the 2004 championship with all the threes. MAJOR.

Big surprise, the guy getting the LEAST amount of love - Jerome Dyson. I wonder if people will ever forgive the kid for being the #13 scorer in school history.

Interesting list of guys left off the list entirely: Al Mouring, Donny Marshall, Tony Robertson, Rod Sellers, and Brian Fair. I think you have to find a place for Marshall and Sellers.

 

[Deadrody]

Overall, Ray had the better career, but Im giving Kemba the #1 spot based on his miraculous once in a lifetime season. But im pretty sure that its close and Kemba isnt head and shoulders above Ray Ray.

No. He didn't. Ray finished 150 pts ahead of Kemba for his career and I'm not docking Kemba for being able to play in a couple extra tournament games (as in 2) since he was the prime factor in getting there. Kemba is also #10 in total assists and played along side the guy at #9 for one season dampening his total. AND that doesn't even include the ridiculous "intangible" of having done what he did, which was carry an otherwise .500 team to a 5 game BET title and national title.

And not to take anything away from Ray necessarily, but as a freshman when his team was bounced in the sweet sixteen, Ray shot 1-5 and had 2 pts. In the elite eight as a freshman, Kemba Walker led his team in scoring with 23 pts to propel them to the final four. I mean, if we're pretending that Kemba Walker never did anything before last season. Just sayin'

I stand by my declaration. No. Chance. Ray at #2 ? Easy, done, without hesitation. (although, I gotta say, Emeka and Rip both have a case for #2. Is someone going to tell me about how Ray had a better career than Rip now, too?). The #1 spot ? Taken

 

[HuskyFan32]

[quote="\So why did the 09-10 team do so poorly with Walker as starting PG? .[/quote]

Thats a simple one. 2 words: Jerome Dyson. Most destructive player in Husky history

 

[HuskyHawk]

Bite me. You really need people chiming in on UConn history that don't even know who played on which team TWO YEARS AGO ? No, I don't abide stupidity

Grow up. One early morning goof when I'm barely awake doesn't equal stupidity. Nor does disagreeing with you. I go back to the Perno days as a fan. Your Kemba fantacism smacks of some deep unfulfilled man-crush.
Allen averaged 19 ppg over three seasons, to 16 for Kemba. #2 in national player of the year voting, just like Kemba. Rip averaged 24, and did win a NC. MVP of the final four as well, just like Kemba. Plus he lead the team in scoring all three of his years. Kemba can't come close to saying that.

Giving Kemba credit for the 08-09 FF is absurd. He started 2 games that year. Sure he had some nice moments and was key against Missouri. He was also 1-5 in 20 minutes in the loss to Michigan St. (and 3-9 from the line). Meanwhile his sophomore year the team floundered. Ray's teams never missed the NCAA tournament. Kemba is among the greatest ever at UConn. No question. What he did last year was amazing. It won't be duplicated. But the best ever is certainly debatable.

 

[Prezidint]

Big surprise, the guy getting the LEAST amount of love - Jerome Dyson. I wonder if people will ever forgive the kid for being the #13 scorer in school history.

I'd guess that their reply to your query will be something along the lines of . . . "yes, but, the combination of the facts that he was the worst 3 point shooting 2 guard we ever had and he had a sour propensity to turn the ball over at critical times mitigate the love - and, BTW, he had an unusual situation in which he was asked to be the go-to guy in his freshman year - on almost any other year he would not have had the touches."

I'm not arguing that the above is a valid argument - but it's certainly one that could be made.

 

[Huskybass]

Donny Marshall? Figured he would make the list.

 

[Walker11]

Kemba deserves to be #1 based solely on the face that he saved out program. We were literally inches from falling off a cliff and into college bball mediocrity (ala Maryland). And now we have more talent or depth than we ever have. It boggles my mind that we are down to 10 scholarships and we have probably our deepest team ever. Kemba took us inches from death and put us in a better spot than weve ever been (potential bs APR violations withstanding).

I totally agree with this, dramatic as it may be. If Kemba didn't develop like he did, I bet the season is mediocre, JC retires and the team continues to struggle recruiting in his absence. Instead, we are the defending champions with a loaded young roster and are again a "hot" team for high school kids.

Also, keep fishing with your Dyson jabs. Maybe someone will bite.

 

[HuskyFan32]

No. He didn't. Ray finished 150 pts ahead of Kemba for his career and I'm not docking Kemba for being able to play in a couple extra tournament games (as in 2) since he was the prime factor in getting there. Kemba is also #10 in total assists and played along side the guy at #9 for one season dampening his total. AND that doesn't even include the ridiculous "intangible" of having done what he did, which was carry an otherwise .500 team to a 5 game BET title and national title.

And not to take anything away from Ray necessarily, but as a freshman when his team was bounced in the sweet sixteen, Ray shot 1-5 and had 2 pts. In the elite eight as a freshman, Kemba Walker led his team in scoring with 23 pts to propel them to the final four. I mean, if we're pretending that Kemba Walker never did anything before last season. Just sayin'

I stand by my declaration. No. Chance. Ray at #2 ? Easy, done, without hesitation. (although, I gotta say, Emeka and Rip both have a case for #2. Is someone going to tell me about how Ray had a better career than Rip now, too?). The #1 spot ? Taken

You gotta relax man. This is a ridiculous argument that youre trying to force me to have with you. When did I say Kemba did nothing before last year? I just said I think Kemba should be first. Do you pay attention to anything? Its completely absurd that you literally just compared their 3 yr careers by comparing one game each guy played in. You think Kembas first and I agree with you. I dont think it matters how great the disparity is.

 

[HuskyFan32]

I totally agree with this, dramatic as it may be. If Kemba didn't develop like he did, I bet the season is mediocre, JC retires and the team continues to struggle recruiting in his absence. Instead, we are the defending champions with a loaded young roster and are again a "hot" team for high school kids.

Also, keep fishing with your Dyson jabs. Maybe someone will bite.

haha is that sarcasm walker? did you just bite also?? do you agree with me on dyson or not? honest question.

 

[Walker11]

I don't agree with you on Dyson at all and I guess I did semi-bite but I will not even get into that argument. I mostly wanted to support your position of Kemba which I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[HuskyFan32]

I don't agree with you on Dyson at all and I guess I did semi-bite but I will not even get into that argument. I mostly wanted to support your position of Kemba which I agree with wholeheartedly.

No I was geniunely asking you about Dyson, not looking for an agrument. Glad we agree on Kemba.

 

[joober jones]

Damn I wouldn't have guessed Albert Mouring was that high on the scoring list. He was the kind of guy who did everything quietly.

 

[Fishy]

When I first saw Kemba at number one, I chuckled a bit.

There is a tendency to underrate the recent past and overrate the more seasoned past. In ten years time, Kemba at number one might be better received.

I'm not sure I agree with it, but I get it. I generally like the list.

Some quick thoughts...

Drummond at 50 is silly. AO at 47 is ambitious.

Jake deserves to be higher than 46. The author was in a white center frame of mind so he put Knight at 45. And he ran out of white centers and put Josh Boone at 44. Boone did not have a better career than Jake.

Stanley Robinson at number 38. I like Stanley. He's not one of the 50 best players at UConn.

Denham at 37. I don't know if I think "clutch" when I think of Denham Brown. I think of Canada, the 111 points thing, a clank against George Mason and his strange lack of footspeed, but I never think clutch.

Rashad Anderson at 33. That's fine.

Marcus Williams at 32. At this point, the author's computer should have been crammed into his ear. This is a massive miss - Williams was an unmitigated disaster at UConn.

Kevin Ollie is a "symbol"? Seriously? Really? The computer should be retrieved from his ear and reinserted elsewhere.

Jerome Dyson had a better career than Kevin Ollie? We are running out of orifices to stick the computer in.

Taliek Brown above Kevin Ollie? We're now creating new orifices to cram the computer into.

I'm not sure I would put Jeff Adrien ahead of Ricky Moore or Doron Sheffer, but all right.

I am not sure I would put Hasheem Thabeet over Ricky Moore or Doron Sheffer or Jeff Adrien, but all right.

Kevin Freeman at 20. Nice.

AJ at 19. Duck. The computer is coming for another orifice.

I think the list gets pretty solid once you hit the top 15 - Ray at #4 will be controversial, but if you put a premium on titles, that's gonna happen. I probably put him at #1, but I'm not about to argue against the kids ahead of him.

 

[Deadrody]

When I first saw Kemba at number one, I chuckled a bit.

There is a tendency to underrate the recent past and overrate the more seasoned past. In ten years time, Kemba at number one might be better received.

I'm not sure I agree with it, but I get it. I generally like the list.

Some quick thoughts...

Drummond at 50 is silly. AO at 47 is ambitious.

Jake deserves to be higher than 46. The author was in a white center frame of mind so he put Knight at 45. And he ran out of white centers and put Josh Boone at 44. Boone did not have a better career than Jake.
Marcus Williams at 32. At this point, the author's computer should have been crammed into his ear. This is a massive miss - Williams was an unmitigated disaster at UConn.

Kevin Ollie is a "symbol"? Seriously? Really? The computer should be retrieved from his ear and reinserted elsewhere.

Jerome Dyson had a better career than Kevin Ollie? We are running out of orifices to stick the computer in.

Taliek Brown above Kevin Ollie? We're now creating new orifices to cram the computer into.

I'm not sure I would put Jeff Adrien ahead of Ricky Moore or Doron Sheffer, but all right.

I am not sure I would put Hasheem Thabeet over Ricky Moore or Doron Sheffer or Jeff Adrien, but all right.

Kevin Freeman at 20. Nice.

AJ at 19. Duck. The computer is coming for another orifice.

I think the list gets pretty solid once you hit the top 15 - Ray at #4 will be controversial, but if you put a premium on titles, that's gonna happen. I probably put him at #1, but I'm not about to argue against the kids ahead of him.

The thing that your post suggests is, again, a definition of "best". And I think the best example of this is, again, Jerome Dyson. Yes, he gets a ton of heat from some quarters over his behavior, off court issues that surfaced, an alleged lack of work ethic, whatever. Was one of THE top players on probably the most disappointing season in Calhoun's career.

And yet is #13 in UConn history in scoring and is in the top 5 in steals. And until he hurt his knee, was a key piece of the best team in the country in 2009 for a team that ultimately went to the final four, with whom the outcome may have been significantly better.

So Ray Allen is most definitely "the Godfather" of UConn hoops. There is no denying that. And as of now it appears no other UConn alum will come close to his NBA career. But is that really a factor here ? I suppose that fact cements the idea in our minds that he was the best overall basketball player to ever play at UConn. But consider you were making this list for Duke. How many of their complete NBA flameouts are in the top 10 of "Duke Top 50" ? I'm not sure "Top 50 at UConn" needs to reflect the objective definition of "best basketball player", but best UConn career.

Which is why I look at your outrage over Taliek Brown vs. Kevin Ollie. Kevin Ollie is getting the benefit of the same kind of nostalgia as Ray Allen. And I think Taliek Brown is suffering from "we have 3 championships, Taliek was just a part of 1 of them, ho hum" syndrome. But put us in the frame of mind we were all in from 1991 to 1998 and there is no friggin "ho hum" about it. The same can be said of under-rating Rashad Anderson. WAY up the all time scoring list. Massively clutch AND during that actual tournament run, possibly the most important guy on the team. Certainly if you take Ben or Emeka off the team, they don't win it all. But I think the same could be said of Rashad. He was HUGE.

We all "love" the 1995 team that was easily considered no worse than the #2 team in the country, if not #1, and almost assuredly would have gone to the final four in a bracket with any set of the other 62 teams that were not UCLA. A no-doubt, legit national title contender favorite. But they didn't get there. And I have a hard time seeing how Kevin Ollie was a markedly better player, or had a markedly better career than Taliek Brown. Especially considering whatever negative attitudes people may have towards Taliek are related to the fact that they failed to adequately recruit in years prior, forcing him to start at PG as a freshman on a team of all underclassmen. His failure against Texas, committing a turnover that turned victory into defeat was only necessitated by the fact that he should never have been in that position in the first place.

I'm not trying to be a smartass when I ask this, but seriously, please put together a short paragraph why Kevin Ollie should be that far above Taliek Brown on this list.

Ironically, as I said in my earlier post with the top scorer list, I did some adjusting to the list, bumped people up for some things, and down only for being part of 2010 or 2006, and of the 59 guys on the list ? Marcus Williams comes in at #59.

 

[Deadrody]

Grow up. One early morning goof when I'm barely awake doesn't equal stupidity. Nor does disagreeing with you. I go back to the Perno days as a fan. Your Kemba fantacism smacks of some deep unfulfilled man-crush.
Allen averaged 19 ppg over three seasons, to 16 for Kemba. #2 in national player of the year voting, just like Kemba. Rip averaged 24, and did win a NC. MVP of the final four as well, just like Kemba. Plus he lead the team in scoring all three of his years. Kemba can't come close to saying that.

Giving Kemba credit for the 08-09 FF is absurd. He started 2 games that year. Sure he had some nice moments and was key against Missouri. He was also 1-5 in 20 minutes in the loss to Michigan St. (and 3-9 from the line). Meanwhile his sophomore year the team floundered. Ray's teams never missed the NCAA tournament. Kemba is among the greatest ever at UConn. No question. What he did last year was amazing. It won't be duplicated. But the best ever is certainly debatable.

Look, I want to actively apologize to everyone. When I say stuff like "not abiding stupidity", I don't mean it as "you guys are all morons, I hope you die", I'm busting your balls. I don't know how long some people have been posting or not posting here or at any of the other forums, but I've been here almost 15 years. I don't always look at the name, and just assume you are one of my fellow UConn board pals and I'm just busting your balls like I would my real life friends, etc. Honestly. Take it as a term of endearment, strange as that may seem.

Anyhow, you guys continue to discount the intangible of what Kemba accomplished last year. That season is head and shoulders above anything any other player at UConn has ever achieved. Its not even close. Do you think fans at Kansas don't hold Danny Manning in high regard to this day ? There is a reason nearly 25 years later that when people talk about what Kemba did, Danny Manning immediately comes into the converstation. What Kemba did last year not only is an all-time achievement at UConn, it is worthy of discussion in the all-time achievements in college basketball history overall.

How in gods name do you downplay that and label it "fanaticism" ? That's not hyperbole, that's objective fact.

The thing is, I think Kemba gets the nod at #1, no matter who you are comparing him to. But the real kicker to me is, if you allow that and then go to Rip, Ben, Emeka, or Ray for #2, I'm not sure Ray Allen is a clear winner there, either.

Now, like I posted above above about Ray, there are definitely criteria for consideration that allow you to make the argument for Ray at #1, though I don't think "best pure basketball player, as evidence by HOF NBA career" counts. That's just my opinion. If what guys do AFTER UConn matters, that does change things, but I think that's a dubious assertion. I guess I can see how the one guy that should favor is Ray, but still, in my mind, what they did AT UConn is more important.

BTW, after you say Ray averaged 19.0 ppg to Kemba's 16.1 ppg, its disingenuous to say Rip averaged 24. In 1999 he averaged 24, but for his career, that number is 19.8. Which is fine. But part of that is the fact that cupboard was starkly bare in 1997. Put either Ray or Kemba on that team and they would have had significantly more points as freshmen than they did on very good teams.

I also dispute blaming 2010 on Kemba Walker. Certainly it is a bit of a demerit, but its hard to put that on him given the senior class of Edwards, Robinson, and Dyson. And Kemba's "disappearance" came at the final four, not the sweet sixteen.

 

[Deadrody]

BTW, I wasn't really fishing for hits on my Dyson point (well maybe a little). But his spot on the list is 17 points lower than his spot on the all time scoring list. I honestly wonder how long before that stigma goes away, even a little.

Part of it is that I remember when Scott Burrell was the recipient of some of that angst over failing to lead the 1992-93 team to more than an NIT flame out. Same for Ricky Moore pre-1999. Pound the ball into the floor much, Ricky ? Maybe you should not start next year.