Top 50 Uconn players - The dumbest thing you'll read all day via theuconnblog

[HuskyHawk]

Look, I want to actively apologize to everyone. When I say stuff like "not abiding stupidity", I don't mean it as "you guys are all morons, I hope you die", I'm busting your balls. I don't know how long some people have been posting or not posting here or at any of the other forums, but I've been here almost 15 years. I don't always look at the name, and just assume you are one of my fellow UConn board pals and I'm just busting your balls like I would my real life friends, etc. Honestly. Take it as a term of endearment, strange as that may seem.

Anyhow, you guys continue to discount the intangible of what Kemba accomplished last year. That season is head and shoulders above anything any other player at UConn has ever achieved. Its not even close. Do you think fans at Kansas don't hold Danny Manning in high regard to this day ? There is a reason nearly 25 years later that when people talk about what Kemba did, Danny Manning immediately comes into the converstation. What Kemba did last year not only is an all-time achievement at UConn, it is worthy of discussion in the all-time achievements in college basketball history overall.

How in gods name do you downplay that and label it "fanaticism" ? That's not hyperbole, that's objective fact.

The thing is, I think Kemba gets the nod at #1, no matter who you are comparing him to. But the real kicker to me is, if you allow that and then go to Rip, Ben, Emeka, or Ray for #2, I'm not sure Ray Allen is a clear winner there, either.

Now, like I posted above above about Ray, there are definitely criteria for consideration that allow you to make the argument for Ray at #1, though I don't think "best pure basketball player, as evidence by HOF NBA career" counts. That's just my opinion. If what guys do AFTER UConn matters, that does change things, but I think that's a dubious assertion. I guess I can see how the one guy that should favor is Ray, but still, in my mind, what they did AT UConn is more important.

BTW, after you say Ray averaged 19.0 ppg to Kemba's 16.1 ppg, its disingenuous to say Rip averaged 24. In 1999 he averaged 24, but for his career, that number is 19.8. Which is fine. But part of that is the fact that cupboard was starkly bare in 1997. Put either Ray or Kemba on that team and they would have had significantly more points as freshmen than they did on very good teams.

I also dispute blaming 2010 on Kemba Walker. Certainly it is a bit of a demerit, but its hard to put that on him given the senior class of Edwards, Robinson, and Dyson. And Kemba's "disappearance" came at the final four, not the sweet sixteen.

Sorry if was a bit thin skinned. I agree with almost everything you say, but reach different conclusions. I agree with you we should not count NBA achievements. As I looked at the details more and more, I increasingly think Rip is the guy. Leading the team in scoring all three years to me is huge. Kemba was only the best player on his own team for one season. Rip did win a NC, and beat a much, much better team to do it than last year's team did. Yes he had a better supporting cast, which if anything, makes it harder to dominate the stat sheet. The cupboard is bare argument would devalue what Kemba did last year, since the cupboard was pretty bare until Lamb emerged late, inflating his stats. I look at how long he impacted the team in a major way, not just how much he impacted it in a single season. Kemba easily wins best single season. But, his accomplishments as a freshman and sophomore pale in comparison to Hamilton's. Kemba got 25 min a game as a freshman, and put up just under 9 ppg and less than 3 apg. Gordon, in the same minutes, put up 12.6 with more assists as a frosh. KEH put 16 ppg and over 4 apg as a freshman, in 29 mpg.

I agree completely with the Danny Manning comparison. And as someone who went to Kansas for law school, I can tell you, Danny is among the most loved players ever for it. That year was special and amazing. Yet nobody at KU would say he was the best player ever at KU. Wilt was. No contest.

We've been blessed with some awesome players. I loved watching Kemba play. He reminded me so much of why I loved Magic Johnson; playing with a smile and such passion and enthusiasm and will to win.

 

[Deadrody]

I agree with you we should not count NBA achievements. As I looked at the details more and more, I increasingly think Rip is the guy. Leading the team in scoring all three years to me is huge. Kemba was only the best player on his own team for one season. Rip did win a NC, and beat a much, much better team to do it than last year's team did. Yes he had a better supporting cast, which if anything, makes it harder to dominate the stat sheet. The cupboard is bare argument would devalue what Kemba did last year, since the cupboard was pretty bare until Lamb emerged late, inflating his stats. I look at how long he impacted the team in a major way, not just how much he impacted it in a single season. Kemba easily wins best single season. But, his accomplishments as a freshman and sophomore pale in comparison to Hamilton's. Kemba got 25 min a game as a freshman, and put up just under 9 ppg and less than 3 apg. Gordon, in the same minutes, put up 12.6 with more assists as a frosh. KEH put 16 ppg and over 4 apg as a freshman, in 29 mpg.

We've been blessed with some awesome players. I loved watching Kemba play. He reminded me so much of why I loved Magic Johnson; playing with a smile and such passion and enthusiasm and will to win.

The only thing I would add here is that while Rip was the best player all 3 years, is that the cupboard was FAR more baren in 1997 for Rip than it was for Kemba in 2010-11. I can't imagine any of the top ten players of the last 25 years that wouldn't have put up similar numbers, nor do I think Rip as a freshman would have added much more than Kemba did in 2009. The real argument you make here is FOR Khalid. What he did as a freshman is that much more impressive given what that team already had when he joined.

There are mitigating factors as to why Kemba did not dominate for 3 years and his final year is so significantly higher than any other, it carries the day. And, think about your last statement. Did Ray or Rip accomplish as much as Wilt ? One of the greatest players to ever play the game. Not really a fair comparison IMO.

I do think Kemba's legacy will rise or fall some depending on how the team does THIS year. They were all still mostly freshmen and sophomores last year, but if that same general core minus Kemba can get back to the Final Four, it does show that his surrounding cast was better than we gave them credit for. The opposite is also true.

 

[ctchamps]

For comparison purposes - Here is the UConn 1000 point scorer's list and reference to their position on the list

1.) CHRIS SMITH, 2,145 pts. (#8 on the list -7)
2.) RICHARD HAMILTON, 2,036 pts. (#3 on the list -1)
3.) TONY HANSON, 1,990 pts. (#10 on the list -7)
4.) RAY ALLEN, 1,922 pts. (#4 on the list --)
5.) CORNY THOMPSON, 1,810 pts. (#13 on the list -8)
6.) BEN GORDON, 1,795 pts. (#11 on the list -5)
7.) KEMBA WALKER, 1,783 pts. (#1 on the list +6)
8.) WES BIALOSUKNIA, 1,673 pts. (#9 on the list -1)
9.) CLIFF ROBINSON, 1,664 pts. (#15 on the list -6)
10.) KHALID EL-AMIN, 1,650 pts. (#14 on the list -4)
11.) DONYELL MARSHALL, 1,648 pts. (#5 on the list +6)
12.) MIKE McKAY, 1,633 pts. (#21 on the list -9)
13.) JEROME DYSON, 1,630 pts. (#30 on the list -17!!!)
14.) JEFF ADRIEN, 1,603 pts. (#24 on the list -10)
15.) EARL KELLEY, 1,592 pts. (#18 on the list -3)
16.) SCOTT BURRELL, 1,562 pts. (#16 on the list --)
17.) KEVIN FREEMAN, 1,476 pts. (#20 on the list -3)
18.) RASHAD ANDERSON, 1,432 pts. (#33 on the list -15!!!)
19.) EMEKA OKAFOR, 1,426 pts.(#2 on the list +17)
20.) ART QUIMBY, 1,398 pts. (#6 on the list +14)
21.) PHIL GAMBLE, 1,371 pts. (#27 on the list -6)
22.) TOBY KIMBALL, 1,361 pts. (#7 on the list +15)
23.) AL WESTON, 1,342 pts. (Not in the top 50)
24.) JOEY WHELTON, 1,337 pts. (Not in the top 50)
25.) DORON SHEFFER, 1,329 pts. (#26 on the list -1)
26.) BOB STAAK, 1,288 pts. (Not in the top 50)
27.) A.J. PRICE, 1,284 pts. (#19 on the list +8)
28.) VINCENT YOKABASKAS, 1,275 pts. (#35 on the list -7)
29.) DENHAM BROWN, 1,267 pts. (#37 on the list -8)
30.) TATE GEORGE, 1,247 pts. (#34 on the list -4)
31.) STANLEY ROBINSON, 1,231 pts. (#38 on the list -7)
32.) BILL CORLEY, 1,219 pts. (#17 on the list +15)
33.) ALBERT MOURING, 1,214 pts. (Not in the top 50)
34.) DONNY MARSHALL, 1,197 pts. (Not in the top 50)
35.) TONY ROBERTSON, 1,160 pts. (Not in the top 50)
36.) ROD SELLERS, 1,143 pts. (Not in the top 50)
37.) CARON BUTLER, 1,136 pts. (#12 on the list +25)
38.) BRIAN FAIR, 1,130 pts. (Not in the top 50)
39.) BOB BOYD, 1,122 pts. (#36 on the list +3)
40.) JACK ROSE, 1,116 pts. (Not in the top 50)
41.) JIM ABROMAITIS, 1,084 pts. (#40 on the list -1)
42.) TALIEK BROWN, 1,039 pts. (#29 on the list +13)
43.) HASHEEM THABEET, 1,028 pts. (#23 on the list +20)
44.) CAL CHAPMAN, 1,023 pts. (Not in the top 50)
45.) TIM COLES, 1,016 pts. (#39 on the list -6)

OTHERS:
Rudy Gay (#22 on the list +28)
Walt Dropo (#25 on the list +25)
Ricky Moore (#28 on the list +22)
Kevin Ollie (#31 on the list +19)
Marcus Williams (#32 on the list +18)
Ron Hrubula -(#41 on the list +9)
Al Cooper - (#42 on the list +8)
Charlie Villanueva - (#43 on the list +7)
Josh Boone - (#44 on the list +6)
Travis Knight - (#45 on the list +5)
Jake Voskhul - (#46 on the list +4)
Alex Oriakhi - (#47 on the list +3)
Nadav Henefeld - (#48 on the list +2)
Jeremy Lamb - (#49 on the list +1)
Andre Drummond - zero games played

I'm going to re-order this list based on +/- and see if we can come up with an ranking adjustment for both rebounds and assists, as well as team success. Clearly those are the biggest modifiers. I'm also going to see if I can find a way to account for less than 4 seasons.

Based on this comparison, so far, the one that needs to come down the most is Rudy Gay. Great recruit. Not a "great Husky", per se. Should be on the list, but not #22. Am I seeing some Rudy Gay in Walt Dropo as well ? His profile talks about playing in MLB. So ?

The guy getting dropped the worst is Rashad Anderson. Granted, one dimensional player, but a prolific scorer and as clutch as clutch could be. Was a MAJOR factor in the 2004 championship with all the threes. MAJOR.

Big surprise, the guy getting the LEAST amount of love - Jerome Dyson. I wonder if people will ever forgive the kid for being the #13 scorer in school history.

Interesting list of guys left off the list entirely: Al Mouring, Donny Marshall, Tony Robertson, Rod Sellers, and Brian Fair. I think you have to find a place for Marshall and Sellers.

My guess is yes and no. Certain people will never change their negative opinion. Others will mellow out. But Jerome has received the same animosity that Taliek received, and not many people are throwing stones at Taliek any longer. So I suspect over time the hatred will peter out.

 

[ctchamps]

I like this list. It was well presented and the writer took time to explain his opinions. And it stimulated some pretty good responses.

I think we all have our lists and very few of us will have the same lists. Funny how some of us are convinced our preferences are Gods preferences.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The only thing I would add here is that while Rip was the best player all 3 years, is that the cupboard was FAR more baren in 1997 for Rip than it was for Kemba in 2010-11. I can't imagine any of the top ten players of the last 25 years that wouldn't have put up similar numbers, nor do I think Rip as a freshman would have added much more than Kemba did in 2009. The real argument you make here is FOR Khalid. What he did as a freshman is that much more impressive given what that team already had when he joined.

Actually, Rip was just much, much better than Kemba as a freshman. If we reach back in our collective memories, we may recall that Kemba couldn't shoot. His handle was excellent, and he was lightning quick, but he couldn't shoot from outside. Even his FT shooting was mediocre to weak for a PG. Hamilton shot 37% from 3 as a freshman. I do think Khalid is too low on the list.

Fishy's right that the real problems are further down. Boone ahead of Jake? Stanley ahead of Tim Coles? Rudy is too high, maybe post UConn stuff creeping in. The top 5 guys are the right top 5. The order will always be subjective, since none of them are clear winners like Wilt is for Kansas.

 

[Deadrody]

Actually, Rip was just much, much better than Kemba as a freshman. If we reach back in our collective memories, we may recall that Kemba couldn't shoot. His handle was excellent, and he was lightning quick, but he couldn't shoot from outside. Even his FT shooting was mediocre to weak for a PG. Hamilton shot 37% from 3 as a freshman. I do think Khalid is too low on the list.

Fishy's right that the real problems are further down. Boone ahead of Jake? Stanley ahead of Tim Coles? Rudy is too high, maybe post UConn stuff creeping in. The top 5 guys are the right top 5. The order will always be subjective, since none of them are clear winners like Wilt is for Kansas.

Another of the outcomes of my adjusted list has Rudy at #50. Didn't really accomplish much at UConn, was part of one of the most disappointing seasons ever, and frankly, his raw numbers are not that great, either.

 

[Deadrody]

I think we all have our lists and very few of us will have the same lists. Funny how some of us are convinced our preferences are Gods preferences.

Come on, now, don't cast aspersions. You got something to say, go ahead.

 

[ctchamps]

Come on, now, don't cast aspersions. You got something to say, go ahead.

I gave one of your posts in this thread a like. And I just glanced at several others which I'm sure I'm going to like as well. You're off the hook on this. Not that it would have upset you if you weren't. Nor am I hesitant to target people if I think they are wrong.

I just find it amusing that personal preferences and dislikes are sometimes treated as absolutes by us when they are nothing more than opinions.

If I were asked to evaluate postings in this thread I enjoyed yours the most and thought it was the most well thought out. But since I wasn't asked I'll hold off on my response.

 

[Joobie]

Personally, I would love to hear Kemba's opinion on this list (pretty sure he'd disagree with his #1 ranking....eventhough MOST of us feel he's deserving). Would love to hear Ray's too...