Tina Charles traded to Mystics

[DEpup]

So excited! Living in DC, happy to finally have a UConn player on the team!!!!!

 

[TerpWomenFan]

So excited! Living in DC, happy to finally have a UConn player on the team!!!!!

Forgot all about that. We had Dolson for a few years.

 

[domerduck]

I think Hebard will be good, especially with Ionescu, but there's no comparing her and Charles. Charles is a franchise player, an Olympian and a WNBA MVP. Hebard could become a solid WNBA player but just doesnt compare.

I agree she was a great regular season player, but from a franchise player standpoint she never brought any of her teams to even the championship series, only going 4-11 in the playoffs and missing them the last two years with the Liberty. Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do, but she was a winner at Oregon. In their playoffs (PAC12 tourneys & NCAAs) she was 20-5 while the previous 4 years Oregon had zero wins. We will see how she does in the WNBA.

 

[psconn]

Agree with bballnut90. Smells like a forced trade. Thats the way things are in the W, and the new CBA only makes it easier for super-teams to form.

 

[Plebe]

I agree she was a great regular season player, but from a franchise player standpoint she never brought any of her teams to even the championship series, only going 4-11 in the playoffs and missing them the last two years with the Liberty. Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do, but she was a winner at Oregon. In their playoffs (PAC12 tourneys & NCAAs) she was 20-5 while the previous 4 years Oregon had zero wins. We will see how she does in the WNBA.

Good grief.

Tina Charles was named Final Four MOP and the Naismith POY on a team that had Maya Moore on it. Pretty sure she also won Big East POY as well.

 

[Patrick Lilly]

A shocker - but maybe not.

The Liberty are a mess. Moved out of the city, poor ownership and a terrible coach. As stated above, chance to play for a coach she really liked.

Good for Tina. I hope she earns that elusive championship.

Huskynut, I respectively disagree with you quite strongly. The Liberty were owned by James Dolan and MSG, and in my opinion, the worst owner in the league. They've been playing the last few years at the Westchester Center that feels like a medium size high school gym. In January of 2019 Joe Tsai, the founder of Alibaba and the owner of the Nets, bought the Liberty. He's a good guy and has arranged for all of the Liberty's home games to be played at the Barclay Center in Brooklyn which is an amazing arena easily accessible by public transportation from the tri-state area. They fired Katie Smith as coach, which I think was a smart move and hired Walt Hopkins. I have no idea if he is a great coach, but I know players respect him. After many years of being a reluctant Liberty fan, I have great hope for the franchise. Tina's numbers were way down this past year and I suspect she will be happier in DC. That being said, the Liberty got 4 of the first 15 picks in this draft and two decent role players. I think they did just fine and I hope Tina has a great year.

 

[domerduck]

Good grief.

Tina Charles was named Final Four MOP on a team that had Maya Moore on it. Pretty sure she also won Big East POY as well.

I agree she was brilliant at UConn, a team which had already won 5 National championships before she got there. The only distinction I made was Ruthy took a mediocre team to much higher heights. I'd also say Ruthy's colege career was comparable as the stats point out which I posted earlier. They both had an unbelievable teammate in Maya and Sabrina, that helped them succeed in college. I just think there is much to be played in both careers in the WNBA and Olympics before we limit what Hebard can contribute after college and say there is no comparison.

 

[bballnut90]

I agree she was a great regular season player, but from a franchise player standpoint she never brought any of her teams to even the championship series, only going 4-11 in the playoffs and missing them the last two years with the Liberty. Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do, but she was a winner at Oregon. In their playoffs (PAC12 tourneys & NCAAs) she was 20-5 while the previous 4 years Oregon had zero wins. We will see how she does in the WNBA.

Franchise player doesnt mean championships, it means the centerpiece of the team who you build around. Tina was 100% the franchise player for both the Liberty and Sun during her stints there.

Charles is like KG, she's clearly one of the best 5-10 players in the league but no one has ever considered her the best. Hasnt been able to get to a title round as the marquee player but should be able to make a run paired with another top player or 2.

And I like your optimism with Hebard, but again, college stats from different programs in different eras just arent relevant when comparing the two. Hebard doesnt appear physical enough to be a dominant post. She isnt a defensive stopper and hasnt shown a good face up game or any range on her shot which are essential in the pros.

Tina had all of these qualities coming into the pros and was NPOY on an undefeated team. She was the clear #1 pick in the draft and went on to be an All WNBA player as a rookie and an MVP by her third year. Hebard is projected by most mocks as going 7-11 with everyone projecting her as a role player. If she had franchise player potential, she'd be a lock for a top 4 pick. I think she could be a very good pro, in the mold of another Crystal Langhorne, but will be shocked if she has a career anywhere close to the one Tina has had.

 

[domerduck]

but will be shocked if she has a career anywhere close to the one Tina has had.

You are correct Tina was the Liberty's franchise player in the same way Matt Stafford is the Lion's franchise player. I'd say Tina now has a better chance to win a championship than Stafford does with this trade. Also agree stats from different generations/teams are hard to compare, even if you can as I did. As for the future I suggest both players will get a chance to show their stuff on new teams. After 10 years in the WNBA, we will see if Ruthy shocks you and has a strong WNBA career. She has been underestimated for years coming from Alaska so I won't count her out yet.

 

[Plebe]

Franchise player doesnt mean championships, it means the centerpiece of the team who you build around. Tina was 100% the franchise player for both the Liberty and Sun during her stints there.

Charles is like KG, she's clearly one of the best 5-10 players in the league but no one has ever considered her the best. Hasnt been able to get to a title round as the marquee player but should be able to make a run paired with another top player or 2.

And I like your optimism with Hebard, but again, college stats from different programs in different eras just arent relevant when comparing the two. Hebard doesnt appear physical enough to be a dominant post. She isnt a defensive stopper and hasnt shown a good face up game or any range on her shot which are essential in the pros.

Tina had all of these qualities coming into the pros and was NPOY on an undefeated team. She was the clear #1 pick in the draft and went on to be an All WNBA player as a rookie and an MVP by her third year. Hebard is projected by most mocks as going 7-11 with everyone projecting her as a role player. If she had franchise player potential, she'd be a lock for a top 4 pick. I think she could be a very good pro, in the mold of another Crystal Langhorne, but will be shocked if she has a career anywhere close to the one Tina has had.

You have answered this more thoroughly and authoritatively than I could have.

I don’t want to be the one to knock Ruthy Hebard in any way. I am a fan of hers. But to say she is comparable to Tina Charles is wishful homerism at its finest.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Maybe Charles can improve on her .389 shooting from last season. I was shocked when I looked at her stats to see she's never hit 50%+ in a single WNBA season. She was awfully close in 2012 at .499, but .450 for her career is kinda lacking for a front court player. She scores her points, but not exactly the most efficient player.

 

[domerduck]

But to say she is comparable to Tina Charles is wishful homerism at its finest.

You are correct...Ruthy is 21 and Tina is 31...what was I thinking.

 

[j66kicker]

Maybe Charles can improve on her .389 shooting from last season. I was shocked when I looked at her stats to see she's never hit 50%+ in a single WNBA season. She was awfully close in 2012 at .499, but .450 for her career is kinda lacking for a front court player. She scores her points, but not exactly the most efficient player.

You are correct...Ruthy is 21 and Tina is 31...what was I thinking.

No biggie, but coming onto the UConn side of a UConn board and arguing that Ruthie Hebard is comparable to Tina Charles - do you really think you're going to convince anybody?

 

[triaddukefan]

No biggie, but coming onto the UConn side of a UConn board and arguing that Ruthie Hebard is comparable to Tina Charles - do you really think you're going to convince anybody?

They are both black females who play basketball.... yes.. they are comparable on that front.

 

[nwhoopfan]

No biggie, but coming onto the UConn side of a UConn board and arguing that Ruthie Hebard is comparable to Tina Charles - do you really think you're going to convince anybody?

Can you point out in my post where I was comparing the 2 players? I don't see it.

 

[j66kicker]

Can you point out in my post where I was comparing the 2 players? I don't see it.

Sorry - you were just attacking Charles. That prob doesn't work well here either, just sayin'...

 

[domerduck]

No biggie, but coming onto the UConn side of a UConn board and arguing that Ruthie Hebard is comparable to Tina Charles - do you really think you're going to convince anybody?

I wasn't trying to. Remember my first reply to on this thread to your suggestion maybe with the trade the Liberty might pick Hebard, I said "No doubt the Liberty will miss Charles and even if they get hebard, it's a stretch to say she can duplicate what Tina does." A later reply I said "Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do".

I guess UConn folks got annoyed that I said Tina didn't win in the WNBA playoffs that much going 4-11 which is why the trade makes sense to me. How dare that I thought at 6'4" coming out of college with like stats that Ruthy might have some similarities as the Liberty try to move on without Tina Charles. And using Plebe's words" I don’t want to be the one to knock Tina Charles in any way, I am a fan of hers."

 

[CL82]

Hmm, seems like a good time to post this video in tribute to Tina's move as she "sails into the Mystic":



(...and just because it is a good song.)

 

[bballnut90]

You have answered this more thoroughly and authoritatively than I could have.

I don’t want to be the one to knock Ruthy Hebard in any way. I am a fan of hers. But to say she is comparable to Tina Charles is wishful homerism at its finest.

Thanks, and I feel the same regarding Hebard. I'm not trying to knock her because I love watching her and hope she has a great WNBA career, but the comparison is just so inaccurate IMO. It's like someone claiming Oregon wont miss Sabrina next year because they have Chavez to take over (and I love Chavez too btw).

 

[DeeHusky]

college Tina Charles is still a bit better than Ruthy Hebard. Present day Tina Charles is a LOT to ask of Ruthy Hebard. Tina won MVP her 3rd season in the league, I don’t want to discredit Hebard, but... no ma’am. These comparisons y’all try to make sometimes are ridiculous just like the Lauren Cox, ONO debate.

 

[bballnut90]

Maybe Charles can improve on her .389 shooting from last season. I was shocked when I looked at her stats to see she's never hit 50%+ in a single WNBA season. She was awfully close in 2012 at .499, but .450 for her career is kinda lacking for a front court player. She scores her points, but not exactly the most efficient player.

Tina has never been an efficient scorer in the pros. The last several years she has been a volume shooter, leading the league in FGA for many years in a row. Last year especially she seemed a lot more content to take difficult fadeaways instead of trying to battle inside. Guessing her percentages go up playing with better players and a coach who she likes, but she'll never be a 55% shooter in the pros considering how many perimeter shots she takes.

 

[bballnut90]

You are correct Tina was the Liberty's franchise player in the same way Matt Stafford is the Lion's franchise player. I'd say Tina now has a better chance to win a championship than Stafford does with this trade. Also agree stats from different generations/teams are hard to compare, even if you can as I did. As for the future I suggest both players will get a chance to show their stuff on new teams. After 10 years in the WNBA, we will see if Ruthy shocks you and has a strong WNBA career. She has been underestimated for years coming from Alaska so I won't count her out yet.

I think she will have an excellent career. I've said numerous times I think she can be Langhorne 2.0, and Crystal is a 12 year vet averaging 12ppg and 6.5rpg. Crystal made 2nd team All-WNBA once and is a former All Star. I just dont think she's going to be like Charles who is an MVP and 8x All-WNBA player at 31.

 

[domerduck]

The trade makes sense to me too, but moreso because I think Tina is burned out on the Liberty and I think they can do well with all those draft picks. Of course Ruthie isn't part of the trade, and there's no guarantee she'll still be on the board at #9 even if they are interested in her. I would be interested if I was them, especially with her being 10 years younger and already having chemistry with Sabrina.

You are correct about Tina not winning in the WNBA playoffs, but we all know that and you are also correct that this redundant info will probably not be appreciated here. Coming out of college there's no comparison. I guess NPOY awards and NCs aren't "stats" per se, but probably more important than stats. Somebody above mentioned Stat Padford Matt Stafford. If he stays in Detroit he'll retire with more meaningless stats than any QB in history.

My opinion Tina was best when paired with another superstar, one more transcendant which she had at UConn with Maya. In fact her NPOY was a year that Maya also won two of them that year as well, a year after she won them all her Sophomore year. With EDD she'll have that again and take her career farther and not end up like Stafford, as a franchise player with stats who didn't win. I think it's best for both the Liberty and Charles to move on so the trade makes sense to me, no matter who they draft.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Tina has never been an efficient scorer in the pros. The last several years she has been a volume shooter, leading the league in FGA for many years in a row. Last year especially she seemed a lot more content to take difficult fadeaways instead of trying to battle inside. Guessing her percentages go up playing with better players and a coach who she likes, but she'll never be a 55% shooter in the pros considering how many perimeter shots she takes.

Somewhere between 45% and 55% is quite a bit of wiggle room. I looked at a few other players for comparison. EDD is .474 and Stewie is .489, and both of those 2 take more 3's than Charles does, which you would expect would push overall percentage down (although effective FG% is an entirely different stat). I don't watch a ton of WNBA but I know I've seen Nneka and Griner take plenty of jump shots, they are at .551 and .561 for their careers.

 

[domerduck]

college Tina Charles is still a bit better than Ruthy Hebard. Present day Tina Charles is a LOT to ask of Ruthy Hebard. Tina won MVP her 3rd season in the league, I don’t want to discredit Hebard, but... no ma’am. These comparisons y’all try to make sometimes are ridiculous just like the Lauren Cox, ONO debate.

I get UConn players have much more championship history than any Duck player and the greats like Tina have made a difference at the highest level so again noone is trying to compare them. Just saying, Tina Charles will be gone from the Liberty with the trade and maybe selecting Ruthy in the draft (as my original reply supported that thought) as they have similar height and college stats. Ruthy has some national recognition (consensus AA and two-time McLain Award winner-National Power Forward of the year) but not to the level of Charles, but she might help fill the gap of losing Charles. I think pairing her with Sabrina does make some sense as they did win a lot together, even if not UConn levels.