Tina Charles traded to Mystics

[Plebe]

My opinion Tina was best when paired with another superstar, one more transcendant which she had at UConn with Maya. In fact her NPOY was a year that Maya also won two of them that year as well, a year after she won them all her Sophomore year. With EDD she'll have that again and take her career farther and not end up like Stafford, as a franchise player with stats who didn't win. I think it's best for both the Liberty and Charles to move on so the trade makes sense to me, no matter who they draft.

Hardly breaking new analytical ground to observe that having two all-time greats on a team is AOTBE better than having only one.

Basketball is a team sport. Look at the teams that have won WNBA titles. They have multiple bona fide stars on their team, and they don't leave it all up to one great player to carry them. Candace Parker couldn't win a WNBA championship without Nneka, and vice versa.

 

[Lynx23]

Two years ago, when Kia was a rookie with the NY Liberty, Tina played like a superstar IMHO, even though the team had a poor record. I was disappointed in her play last year. She often took it upon herself to score rather than pass to an open player, and many of those shots were forced. They just didn't fall like they did the year before. Maybe Tina forced a trade (or not) but the Liberty are obviously going with youth at this point, so I have no problem with her moving on. I'm a UCONN fan and have always thought she was great, often underappreciated as well, but after last year (and having watched all the games) I felt her best years might be behind her. i guess we'll see. The NY Liberty is no longer UCONN South but if Hopkins can get the best out of his current players plus Sabrina, the future looks very bright. Durr, Nurse, Clarendon, Ionsecu, Johannes, Amanda B, Stokes (assuming she doesn't go anywhere as I don't think the Liberty are done with trades). Han, etc. Could be very interesting going forward, especially as older players begin to leave the league. The don't need another guard but they may have a shot at Walker who would benefit from minutes here and there off the bench with a young team and no pressure.

 

[Dillon77]

I'll just add another wow. Actually, I'm not all that surprised: there had been rumblings that Tina wasn't pleased with the Liberty franchise over the past few years, since Laimbeer packed his bags for Vegas. Clearly a decsion was made that would be in her interest and, perhaps, for the Liberty. Tina's choice of trade partners makes a bunch of sense: play for a championship with superb players and under another favorite coach, Mike Thibault, and then have the option of what to do the next year.

For the Liberty, personally, I would've liked to have seen the Liberty try to get a rebounding forward such as Myisha Hines-Allen. But since they're building, they've got some WNBA players and a mess of draft choices.

Liberty will have a trio of superb guards with Sabrina, Kia and Asia. On the front line, Amanda Zaui B will need to be more consistent (30+ against Sparks to disappear for a few games). Looking forward to what the new adminstrative and coaching staffs produce.

 

[bballnut90]

Somewhere between 45% and 55% is quite a bit of wiggle room. I looked at a few other players for comparison. EDD is .474 and Stewie is .489, and both of those 2 take more 3's than Charles does, which you would expect would push overall percentage down (although effective FG% is an entirely different stat). I don't watch a ton of WNBA but I know I've seen Nneka and Griner take plenty of jump shots, they are at .551 and .561 for their careers.

Charles for her career is 45% which isnt very good for a post but isnt awful considering the volume of shots she has taken. She's had 2 noticeably bad years (2013 and 2019) but has been consistent between 44-50% the other 8.

Also, Charles just flat out is not nearly as good of a shooter or overall offensive player as Stewart or EDD. Both were stellar ball handlers and perimeter players from the get go with smooth jumpers. Charles was a center who has developed a perimeter game over time and has kind of an all or nothing jumper. She also doesnt have great touch around the basket like Nneka, but few players do (I will say Hebard might be one of them.)

Tina's the type of player who you can throw the ball to anytime and she'll go to work inside and get a decent look at a shot even if she isnt the best finisher. Not many players can do that, and that's why she's a go to. That's very difficult to match up with, especially with her size, physicality, post moves and face up ability, but she doesnt have particularly good shooting touch. A'ja Wilson is the same way. The ability to be an incredibly difficult matchup is what largely separates them from role players in the league even if they arent the most efficient scorers.

 

[Zanzman]

You are correct...Ruthy is 21 and Tina is 31...what was I thinking.

I laugh when you talk about the home team bias here at the boneyard , seems you fit right in-for the visitors

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Hot off the presses: Tina wanted to head to Mystics. Tina Charles initiated the Mystics and Liberty trade talks

"Tina's in a position where she wants to compete for a championship sooner than later as an older player," Thibault said. "It's been a couple of weeks in the making. [The Liberty] clearly were motivated to get it done before the draft so that the draft picks would play a factor for them this week."

Bringing in a player like Charles gives the Mystics an embarrassment of riches in terms of talent on the team. Already two-time MVP Elena Delle Donne is inked long-term and they also have Emma Meesseman coming off of an incredible WNBA Finals appearance.

However, there is no guarantee that all three could be on the court given the current coronavirus pandemic. Meesseman is overseas in her home country of Belgium, where there is currently a non-essential travel ban to the United States. Charles could be an "insurance plan" if Meesseman cannot get back into the U.S. "

 

[domerduck]

Another hot off the press from the New York Post. "Tina Charles trade shows Liberty all-in on Sabrina Ionescu rebuild" My favorite quote per our discussion "Ionescu’s Oregon pick-and-roll dance partner Ruthy Hebard begins to make a lot of sense at No. 9 or No. 12. After all, it’s Ionescu’s team now."

Tina Charles trade shows Liberty all-in on Sabrina Ionescu rebuild

Sabrina Ionescu isn’t officially on the New York Liberty yet, and the Liberty are already Ionescu’s team. When — not “if,” though Liberty general manager Jonathan Kolb spoke in an interview this we…

nypost.com

 

[bballnut90]

Hot off the presses: Tina wanted to head to Mystics. Tina Charles initiated the Mystics and Liberty trade talks

"Tina's in a position where she wants to compete for a championship sooner than later as an older player," Thibault said. "It's been a couple of weeks in the making. [The Liberty] clearly were motivated to get it done before the draft so that the draft picks would play a factor for them this week."

Bringing in a player like Charles gives the Mystics an embarrassment of riches in terms of talent on the team. Already two-time MVP Elena Delle Donne is inked long-term and they also have Emma Meesseman coming off of an incredible WNBA Finals appearance.

However, there is no guarantee that all three could be on the court given the current coronavirus pandemic. Meesseman is overseas in her home country of Belgium, where there is currently a non-essential travel ban to the United States. Charles could be an "insurance plan" if Meesseman cannot get back into the U.S. "

Yeah no surprise there. Writing was on the wall that NY was a few years away from being a contender and Charles isnt getting any younger. Mystics should be good, but not fully sold on them being a title favorite with teams like Vegas, Seattle and Phoenix all projected to be very good. Last year the greatly benefitted from all of the stars being out.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I agree she was a great regular season player, but from a franchise player standpoint she never brought any of her teams to even the championship series, only going 4-11 in the playoffs and missing them the last two years with the Liberty. Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do, but she was a winner at Oregon. In their playoffs (PAC12 tourneys & NCAAs) she was 20-5 while the previous 4 years Oregon had zero wins. We will see how she does in the WNBA.

Tina is a “regular season player” and Ruthy is a “winner.” Shame Tina never won a national championship while at UConn, unlike Ruthy, and never was national player of the year. Oh wait...

 

[LowkeyX]

Yeah no surprise there. Writing was on the wall that NY was a few years away from being a contender and Charles isnt getting any younger. Mystics should be good, but not fully sold on them being a title favorite with teams like Vegas, Seattle and Phoenix all projected to be very good. Last year the greatly benefitted from all of the stars being out.

& Connecticut Sun will still be strong even with the loss of Courtney Williams.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Yeah no surprise there. Writing was on the wall that NY was a few years away from being a contender and Charles isnt getting any younger. Mystics should be good, but not fully sold on them being a title favorite with teams like Vegas, Seattle and Phoenix all projected to be very good. Last year the greatly benefitted from all of the stars being out.

I agree with your statement about the personnel. But as UConn fans have stated on many, many occasions, coaching counts and the Mystics have the best coach in the WNBA.

 

[Jackalope]

Tina's the type of player who you can throw the ball to anytime and she'll go to work inside and get a decent look at a shot even if she isnt the best finisher. Not many players can do that, and that's why she's a go to. That's very difficult to match up with, especially with her size, physicality, post moves and face up ability, but she doesnt have particularly good shooting touch.

While 2019 certainly was an off year for Tina, let's consult the experts on Tina's post moves and finishing abilities.

From the 2019 Pre-Season WNBA GM Survey:

2019 WNBA.com GM Survey: Best Players and Coaches - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

Ever wonder what WNBA insiders think about the best teams, players and coaches in the league? Once again, WNBA.com posed questions to the league’s general managers to learn what the people who make the decisions really think about these topics and more. GO TO: Season Predictions | Best...

www.wnba.com

Tina Charles. Best Power Forward Ranked #1, 42%
Tina Charles. Best Fade-away shot. Ranked #2, 20%
Tina Charles. Best Finisher. Ranked #1, 25%
Tina Charles. Best Post Moves, Ranked #1, 42% (Syl is ranked #2 @ 25%)

 

[DEpup]

Somewhere between 45% and 55% is quite a bit of wiggle room. I looked at a few other players for comparison. EDD is .474 and Stewie is .489, and both of those 2 take more 3's than Charles does, which you would expect would push overall percentage down (although effective FG% is an entirely different stat). I don't watch a ton of WNBA but I know I've seen Nneka and Griner take plenty of jump shots, they are at .551 and .561 for their careers.

This has also been a product of the players around her. The NY team has been constructed to have Tina take almost all the shots so that will influence her percentage when she is forced to take more difficult shots since the team has a challenged offense. I would say Tina's efficiency would be higher if she was on a better offensive team where she isn't forced to be basically the only scoring option.

 

[bballnut90]

While 2019 certainly was an off year for Tina, let's consult the experts on Tina's post moves and finishing abilities.

From the 2019 Pre-Season WNBA GM Survey:

2019 WNBA.com GM Survey: Best Players and Coaches - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

Ever wonder what WNBA insiders think about the best teams, players and coaches in the league? Once again, WNBA.com posed questions to the league’s general managers to learn what the people who make the decisions really think about these topics and more. GO TO: Season Predictions | Best...

www.wnba.com

Tina Charles. Best Power Forward Ranked #1, 42%
Tina Charles. Best Fade-away shot. Ranked #2, 20%
Tina Charles. Best Finisher. Ranked #1, 25%
Tina Charles. Best Post Moves, Ranked #1, 42% (Syl is ranked #2 @ 25%)

I'd just say watch her play and look at percentages. She's never finished clean looks as well as players like Griner, Nneka, Stewart, Parker, Cambage, or Fowles. She is better than most at hitting difficult looks and fadeaways though.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'd just say watch her play and look at percentages. She's never finished clean looks as well as players like Griner, Nneka, Stewart, Parker, Cambage, or Fowles. She is better than most at hitting difficult looks and fadeaways though.

I think the best shot in the league is Tina's hook shot.

 

[WFFL]

I think the best shot in the league is Tina's hook shot.

She even stopped using it last season . It was just very weird for her , not sure who she's been watching and wanting to immolate but she needs to get back on the block . That's where she made her money in college and won the awards . She has not had that same level of success due to her trying to be someone shes not at the pro level period.

 

[bballnut90]

She even stopped using it last season . It was just very weird for her , not sure who she's been watching and wanting to immolate but she needs to get back on the block . That's where she made her money in college and won the awards . She has not had that same level of success due to her trying to be someone shes not at the pro level period.

Guessing she will spend more time in the post with EDD in the lineup. NY never had a good inside out forward like EDD so it should take pressure off Tina and allow her to play more inside. Getting Charles is a great trade for Washington, but Tina does come with a couple of question marks. First, how does she adjust playing in a secondary role after being a volume shooter much of her career? Definitely will be a change in mentality and usage. And also, was last year a sign that's she on the decline or just an off year? She's 31 which is often around the age that players commonly decline in playing quality.

At any rate though, great trade for the Mystics, especially considering how little they gave up.

 

[DEpup]

Guessing she will spend more time in the post with EDD in the lineup. NY never had a good inside out forward like EDD so it should take pressure off Tina and allow her to play more inside. Getting Charles is a great trade for Washington, but Tina does come with a couple of question marks. First, how does she adjust playing in a secondary role after being a volume shooter much of her career? Definitely will be a change in mentality and usage. And also, was last year a sign that's she on the decline or just an off year? She's 31 which is often around the age that players commonly decline in playing quality.

At any rate though, great trade for the Mystics, especially considering how little they gave up.

I think she will adapt perfectly since one could argue that is her natural role as part of a team. She operated well with Maya Moore and has performed well on the olympic team so no concerns.

As far as decline, maybe that was more mental burn out than anything else since it appears she wanted the trade as part of a new beginning and trying to win a title....mental burn out is real in any job that someone has done for years.

 

[ubasketball]

Huskynut, I respectively disagree with you quite strongly. The Liberty were owned by James Dolan and MSG, and in my opinion, the worst owner in the league. They've been playing the last few years at the Westchester Center that feels like a medium size high school gym. In January of 2019 Joe Tsai, the founder of Alibaba and the owner of the Nets, bought the Liberty. He's a good guy and has arranged for all of the Liberty's home games to be played at the Barclay Center in Brooklyn which is an amazing arena easily accessible by public transportation from the tri-state area. They fired Katie Smith as coach, which I think was a smart move and hired Walt Hopkins. I have no idea if he is a great coach, but I know players respect him. After many years of being a reluctant Liberty fan, I have great hope for the franchise. Tina's numbers were way down this past year and I suspect she will be happier in DC. That being said, the Liberty got 4 of the first 15 picks in this draft and two decent role players. I think they did just fine and I hope Tina has a great year.

These observations are identical to my own. As a season ticket holder in the spirited but woeful Westchester County Center, I saw every home game last year. Taking absolutely nothing away from Tina's HOF career, she was not the MVP player last year that all of us remember. Not only were her numbers down, but so was her team play as she was probably asked to do too much on a sub-par team with an appalling number of turnovers by the backcourt. With the advent of the Sabrina era, both Tina and the Liberty needed a change. In addition to the draft choices, the Liberty recently acquired reliable veteran guard Layshia Clarendon who will play a stabilizing role as well as mentoring both Sabrina and exciting Asia Durr (who we all remember from Lousiville), who missed most of her rookie year. New coach, new home, new owner, new mentality, new backcourt, new franchise player - it all sounds good to me. Now if they could just play ball this year?!

 

[Carnac]

An already good team just got better!!

How Tina Charles' WNBA trade impacts the Washington Mystics

The Mystics could have run it back with a similar roster to last year's title team. Instead, they hope center Tina Charles gives their offense greater diversity.

www.espn.com

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Makes me suspect that Tina demanded a trade, or else she would sit. And sounds as though NY felt that this season won't happen, so might as well pick up some draft choices for the year when they can play.

I agree that this looks very lopsided. A second-round draft pick- plus about three bucks- will get you a coffee at Starbucks. Second round picks rarely stick with their teams, let alone become big producers.

Sounds as though something else was going on behind the scenes....

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I agree she was a great regular season player, but from a franchise player standpoint she never brought any of her teams to even the championship series, only going 4-11 in the playoffs and missing them the last two years with the Liberty. Since Ruthy hasn't played a game in the WNBA, its hard to compare how she'll do, but she was a winner at Oregon. In their playoffs (PAC12 tourneys & NCAAs) she was 20-5 while the previous 4 years Oregon had zero wins. We will see how she does in the WNBA.

I think Tina never had the support to get her an her team to greater heights. She was always being mugged by opposing teams, because she was always the key to her team. She developed an outside shot in the WNBA, because she was always smothered by the other team when she tried to go inside.

 

[hugefan]

I agree she was brilliant at UConn, a team which had already won 5 National championships before she got there. The only distinction I made was Ruthy took a mediocre team to much higher heights. I'd also say Ruthy's colege career was comparable as the stats point out which I posted earlier. They both had an unbelievable teammate in Maya and Sabrina, that helped them succeed in college. I just think there is much to be played in both careers in the WNBA and Olympics before we limit what Hebard can contribute after college and say there is no comparison.

Whoa wait a minute “took a team to much higher heights”, just what are those higher heights? So sick of the hype with OR. South Carolina are the number 1 team in the nation and they deserve to be. Yet they are ignored because of all the media hype with some offering up the fake trophy to OR. Both Dawn and Kim have national championship experience last time I checked but both are ignored for a mythical trophy run by a hype machine.

 

[hugefan]

Good luck to Tina as she will now be playing with one of the best passing teams in the league. Just wondering how much other teams will score against the Libertys D or lack there of?

 

[Lynx23]

Two years ago, when Kia was a rookie with the NY Liberty, Tina played like a superstar IMHO, even though the team had a poor record. I was disappointed in her play last year. She often took it upon herself to score rather than pass to an open player, and many of those shots were forced. They just didn't fall like they did the year before. Maybe Tina forced a trade (or not) but the Liberty are obviously going with youth at this point, so I have no problem with her moving on. I'm a UCONN fan and have always thought she was great, often underappreciated as well, but after last year (and having watched all the games) I felt her best years might be behind her. i guess we'll see. The NY Liberty is no longer UCONN South but if Hopkins can get the best out of his current players plus Sabrina, the future looks very bright. Durr, Nurse, Clarendon, Ionsecu, Johannes, Amanda B, Stokes (assuming she doesn't go anywhere as I don't think the Liberty are done with trades). Han, etc. Could be very interesting going forward, especially as older players begin to leave the league. The don't need another guard but they may have a shot at Walker who would benefit from minutes here and there off the bench with a young team and no pressure.

What the heck, I'll give me some credit for calling this one. As Tom Petty once said, even the losers get lucky some time.