Tiffany Hayes for First Team All-American

[UConnCat]

Well, I've stated my stance on that. It is more about the stats against the top teams that sway my opinion. Against the other top 5 teams (Duke, Baylor, Stanford and ND) she is simply not producing enough (avg of 9 pts and 7 rebs) for me to put here there. I need to see big performances against the other top teams.

With that in mind, make the case for Sugar Rodgers. She scores more because she shoots a lot. Tiff's shooting %s are much better as is her A/TO. Rodgers shot 3-18 and 4-13 against ND and UConn, respectively.

 

[easttexastrash]

With that in mind, make the case for Sugar Rodgers. She scores more because she shoots a lot. Tiff's shooting %s are much better as is her A/TO. Rodgers shot 3-18 and 4-13 against ND and UConn, respectively.

This was a direct comparison of Hayes and Stricklen. I still feel that Rogers is a better player than both of those two but you are right that her stats against UCONN and ND are abysmal. But I also feel that Sugar Rogers can take over any game that she is in.

But, it's all my opinion. What do I know? I've been told very little...

 

[UConnCat]

This was a direct comparison of Hayes and Stricklen. I still feel that Rogers is a better player than both of those two but you are right that her stats against UCONN and ND are abysmal. But I also feel that Sugar Rogers can take over any game that she is in.

I understand you were commenting about Hayes v Stricklen, but you have put Rodgers on your AA list which I don't understand on a lot of levels, but specifically with regard to the standard you are applying to Hayes. BTW, Rodgers is not a better player than either Stricklen or Hayes. Tiff's all-around game (taking and making good shots, rebounding, passing and defense) has been better than Rodgers' game this year.

 

[speedoo]

If Hayes has a big game against Notre Dame I may agree. I need to see her have a big game against one of the top teams before I can put her there. She has certainly played well of late.

When have you ever seen Stricklen have a big game against a top team?

 

[UConnCat]

When have you ever seen Stricklen have a big game against a top team?

Stricklen did have a good scoring game against Baylor, specifically the first half. But I don't think Stricklen has had an AA year. I think her play has been a disappointment mostly because I think she is capable of so much more than she's delivered. Among the LVs, I've been more impressed with Glory Johnson's season.

 

[alexrgct]

I understand you were commenting about Hayes v Stricklen, but you have put Rodgers on your AA list which I don't understand on a lot of levels, but specifically with regard to the standard you are applying to Hayes. BTW, Rodgers is not a better player than either Stricklen or Hayes. Tiff's all-around game (taking and making good shots, rebounding, passing and defense) has been better than Rodgers' game this year.

Would agree with that. If Rogers isn't scoring, she isn't effective. Tiff this year has consistently played at a maniacally high energy level on both ends of the court and finds ways to make an impact even when her scoring isn't coming easy.

Plus, if UConn makes the Final Four without two of even the ten best players in the country, some fanbases would have to admit that Geno's a really, really good coach. And that would be tragic.

 

[alexrgct]

Stricklen did have a good scoring game against Baylor, specifically the first half. But I don't think Stricklen has had an AA year. I think her play has been a disappointment mostly because I think she is capable of so much more than she's delivered. Among the LVs, I've been more impressed with Glory Johnson's season.

You won't find too many LV fans who would disagree with you.

 

[easttexastrash]

With that in mind, make the case for Sugar Rodgers. She scores more because she shoots a lot. Tiff's shooting %s are much better as is her A/TO. Rodgers shot 3-18 and 4-13 against ND and UConn, respectively.

OK, Cat...you may have swayed me. I looked at Rogers' stats for the year and she has had a lot of really bad shooting nights with very low percentages. Tiff is way above Rogers in shooting percentage. I replace Rogers with Tiff.

 

[easttexastrash]

When have you ever seen Stricklen have a big game against a top team?

Seriously? 25 points against Baylor and 27 against Stanford. I'm all for a good debate, but at least do your homework.

 

[Icebear]

OK, Cat...you may have swayed me. I looked at Rogers' stats for the year and she has had a lot of really bad shooting nights with very low percentages. Tiff is way above Rogers in shooting percentage. I replace Rogers with Tiff.

Indeed Rogers is erratic and would have been the second choice I would have questioned. Stricklen has not shown up at some critical times this year, too, and a 7 loss team raises questions about that.

 

[easttexastrash]

Now, I look forward to seeing Delle Donne in a game against a top opponent to see if she can put up the big numbers when the competition stiffens. Has she faced any lock-down defenders this year?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Here is my first team. Pick away...

Delle Donne (Delaware)
Griner (Baylor)
N. Ogwumike (Stanford)
Diggins (Notre Dame)
Hartley (UCONN)
Sims (Baylor)
Stricklen (Tennessee)
C. Ogwumike (Stanford)
Mathies (Kentucky)
Rogers (Georgetown)

The first 4 are no-brainers.

Re Bria, despite what other BYers have written, I have her about even with Tiff. There are up to 7 games left. Let's see how things work out. I agree that Bria has been the better big game player, but Tiff's overall numbers are better.

I'm pretty sure I have Sims in my top 10.

Stricklen--close. Like others, I pick Tiffany over her.

Chiney--maybe my expectations were too high. Great rebounder and defender with energy, noit the shooter I expected. Almost certainly next year. This year-- top 10 or top 20?

Mathies--maybe. I know she is Kentucky's best player, but .... Actually, I have not seen her.

Rogers--nope. Second ten, maybe. A volume shooter and low percentage shooter.

Others to consider--Tayler Hill, Sammy Prahalis, someone else from Notre Dame, Elizabeth Williams, Williams or Johnson from Miami, Alyssa Thomas, Kevi Luper.

As noted, I want 7 more games to decide. My draft February 17 list (how's that for hedging?):

Griner
Delle Donne
N. Ogwumike
Diggins
Sims
Hayes
Hill
Thomas
Luper
1 vacant slot

 

[easttexastrash]

The first 4 are no-brainers.

Re Bria, despite what other BYers have written, I have her about even with Tiff. There are up to 7 games left. Let's see how things work out. I agree that Bria has been the better big game player, but Tiff's overall numbers are better.

I'm pretty sure I have Sims in my top 10.

Stricklen--close. Like others, I pick Tiffany over her.

Chiney--maybe my expectations were too high. Great rebounder and defender with energy, noit the shooter I expected. Almost certainly next year. This year-- top 10 or top 20?

Mathies--maybe. I know she is Kentucky's best player, but .... Actually, I have not seen her.

Rogers--nope. Second ten, maybe. A volume shooter and low percentage shooter.

Others to consider--Tayler Hill, Sammy Prahalis, someone else from Notre Dame, Elizabeth Williams, Williams or Johnson from Miami, Alyssa Thomas, Kevi Luper.

As noted, I want 7 more games to decide. My draft February 17 list (how's that for hedging?):

Griner
Delle Donne
N. Ogwumike
Diggins
Sims
Hayes
Hill
Thomas
Luper
1 vacant slot

Nice list and food for thought.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Now, I look forward to seeing Delle Donne in a game against a top opponent to see if she can put up the big numbers when the competition stiffens. Has she faced any lock-down defenders this year?

She had 32 against a box-and-one defense applied by tall, athletic Maryland players. Against one-on-one defense, she is the best offensive player in the country, bar none (including Nneka, who is likely #2).

 

[Kibitzer]

Tiffany Hayes is my All-American. This kid plays her heart out, every game, every play, and -- as I have posted often -- the phenomenal UConn WL record since she enrolled is no accident. Her classmates have never seen her play in a losing game at home, to cite just one example.

Back on January 16, I posted a little piece about Tiffany by inviting attention to two linked articles in the "news" of that date. One was entitled "Hayes Leads the Way" and the other, "More Expected of Hayes." Sort of typical of the reserved and conditional praise she usually receives. "Well, I might consider her to be an AA, but first she has to. . . .[fill in the blank]"

I say she deserves AA status unconditionally. Now.

And for those who disagree, I invite your attention to the lead sentence in this post.

 

[easttexastrash]

She had 32 against a box-and-one defense applied by tall, athletic Maryland players. Against one-on-one defense, she is the best offensive player in the country, bar none (including Nneka, who is likely #2).

Didn't know the Maryland stat. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Nice stats at 10-19 FG and 10-10 FT.

 

[easttexastrash]

The Notre Dame game will be huge and watched by a lot of fans. If she has a big game she will most likely make a big impression close to the voting period and will be first team. If she has an average game of 10 or few points while someone from ND has a bigger game, or if KML has a much bigger game, it will be hard for her to make the team.

 

[speedoo]

Stricklen did have a good scoring game against Baylor, specifically the first half. But I don't think Stricklen has had an AA year. I think her play has been a disappointment mostly because I think she is capable of so much more than she's delivered. Among the LVs, I've been more impressed with Glory Johnson's season.

And Tiff had a great all around game against Stanford: 13 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals, 9 points. If that's not "big" I don't know what is.

 

[MilfordHusky]

We posted Tiff v. Stricklen stats this week. Here are more comparisons:

Player/FG %/3-pt %/FT %/ ppg

Hayes .532/.430/.792/15.9

Diggins .532/.379/.797/17.2

Sims .460/.411./.845/15.0

Rogers .354/.306/.824/19.5

Hill .497/.444/.769/21.3

Prahalis .448/.370/.841/19.8

Johnson .451/.326/.856/16.4

Williams .387/.350/.823/15.9

Novosel .459/.438/.811/14.6

Lucas .452/.431/.872/19.4

Schimmel .365/.310/.791/14.3

There is more to it than statistics and shooting, but Tiff is shooting .532 as a guard. The great Maya Moore exceeded that (.543) only in her freshman year. Maya shot .524 last year. Diggins is the only other player above .460 on the list. The 3 kids shooting under .380--including Sugar--are just too inefficient. Looking at these number, I may give my 10th slot to Maggie Lucas of Germantown Academy. Hill is shooting lights out. She's already on my list.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Tiffany Hayes is my All-American. This kid plays her heart out, every game, every play, and -- as I have posted often -- the phenomenal UConn WL record since she enrolled is no accident. Her classmates have never seen her play in a losing game at home, to cite just one example.

I they did, it was 8th grade or earlier. 7 losses in high school. 4 losses in college (so far). That stat is comparable to Moore, Mosqueda-Lewis, Bird, and Taurasi. Tiff is a winner, clearly.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Didn't know the Maryland stat. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Nice stats at 10-19 FG and 10-10 FT.

They muscled her, and she started slowly. I think she had 22 after halftime.

 

[UConnCat]

There is more to it than statistics and shooting, but Tiff is shooting .532 as a guard.

An over-looked part of Tiffany's game is her play-making ability. She is well on her way to her 4th season with more than 100 assists.

 

[EricLA]

great stats mil. also i think it's important to take into consideration minutes played. on a team like UCONN where m any games are blowouts, Tiff averages under 30 minutes per game. i'm betting almost everyone else on the list averages more MPG. that's another reason i'd argue for Tiff. she does more in the time she's on the court them some of the other AA's people are putting forward.

and even in spite of that, look at the rest of her stats - she's not a PG but puts up excellent assist numbers. she's not a post player but is a great rebounder.

 

[easttexastrash]

Milford, you have certainly earned my respect for your research. You have presented some very good information for analysis.

Damn you! Now I have to rethink my choices. (-;

 

[MilfordHusky]

Milford, you have certainly earned my respect for your research. You have presented some very good information for analysis.

Damn you! Now I have to rethink my choices. (-;

It's called fact-based decision making.

You think I got the moniker "Voice of Reason" for nothing?

Actually, I looked things up, because I wasn't sure. I like Tiff's stats, especially per minute. Rogers, Williams, and Schimmel shoot far too low a percentage. My guess is that Simmons does too. Tiff, Skylar, and Odyssey are comparable in shooting. Tiff has fewer assists, but probably more rebounds.