The View From Section 241 — NC State

[Viet Vet]

The Rosa penalty is automatic. I don’t know why it is a rule, but that will get called 100 out of 100 times.

To those who don’t like the rule: Your argument should be directed to the rules committee, not the refs. The refs are charged with enforcing the rules.

 

[Luna]

It is not, the rules are very clear:

Per the NCAA rulebook, players can’t do things that “provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game,” including but not limited to:

(e) An unopposed ball carrier obviously altering stride as he approaches the opponent’s goal line or diving into the end zone.

Its a stupid rule…what he did wasn’t bad at all… i have seen a lot worse… I thought it was pretty cool and athletic what he did

 

[noeynox]

En

To those who don’t like the rule: Your argument should be directed to the rules committee, not the refs. The refs are charged with enforcing the rules.

Enforce them equally. Refs that don't should be fined.

 

[businesslawyer]

Did you watch the Auburn game today?

He didn’t say 200 times out of 200. (And yes, that is tongue in cheek.)

Thank you Dizzy for providing the rule. So whether or not it makes sense, Rosa should have known it and the refs should have called it.

 

[Dizzy21]

Its a stupid rule…what he did wasn’t bad at all… i have seen a lot worse… I thought it was pretty cool and athletic what he did

I agree with you on that, but it is a rule and saying that the refs made a poor call is just incorrect. The refs in the Auburn game made the poor call.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Good to have BL's 241 View back - great write-up as always.

Yes, NC State is just a better team with better athletes on both sides. And that NC State's QB is definitely no raw youngster either - Brennan Armstrong's a 23-yr old 5th year redshirt grad transfer from Virginia and was their all-time leader in several passing stats. It's no wonder he was giving our defense fits all night. Dude's legit. NC State hosts Notre Dame next week so we'll get a better idea how good he and his team are.

As for us, disappointed about the loss, but I thought UConn played hard and despite the stagnant offense after the first TD drive, we were right in the game the whole way (it just didn't seem that way so much because there were many deflating moments). A 10-point loss to that team isn't all bad considering how they destroyed us last year.

I think we'll be ok - Fagnano should have better success with more time with this offense and I expect UConn to do well the next couple weeks leading up to Duke. We should be good enough to handle GA St on the road and definitely FIU by a lot (they had 4 total passing yds at LA Tech).

Props to the crowd for showing up big time - was expecting about 10k less to be honest. Biggest crowd since Michigan 2013 is a nice statement that we can indeed fill up the Rent again.

They’ll lose by 20 or 30 depending on the breaks.

 

[Dizzy21]

He didn’t say 200 times out of 200. (And yes, that is tongue in cheek.)

More seriously, instead of just telling us it gets called every time could someone explain what exactly the rule is? I heard the referee say unsportsmanlike conduct, and unless it uses doing a flip as an example we see celebrations far more showy than that not called all the time.

(e) An unopposed ball carrier obviously altering stride as he approaches the opponent’s goal line or diving into the end zone.

 

[Dizzy21]

En

Enforce them equally. Refs that don't should be fined.

Yes, someone should penalize the Auburn refs for not correctly enforcing the rule.

 

[huskymedic]

(e) An unopposed ball carrier obviously altering stride as he approaches the opponent’s goal line or diving into the end zone.

FIFY

(One can argue what “unopposed”” is I guess but I don’t disagree w/ the intent)

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Thursday night was somewhat of a mixed bag. On the one hand, no one likes losing, despite the fact that NC State simply had better athletes than us the game was there for the taking, and the fact that after our first drive you couldn’t differentiate last year’s passing offense from this years are all clear negatives. On the other hand, if we’re honest and realistic they are a better team than us, composed of better individual talent, and we weren’t going to win unless we got some breaks. And breaks were not there to be had. No officials call that helped us (as we will get into a moment, quite the opposite), no takeaways, nothing that would let a 15 point upset happen. So use opening night as a measuring stick. Last year they beat us 41-10, and let’s be honest — the game wasn’t nearly that close. They were up 31-3 at the half and if they wanted to beat us by much more they could have. This year, we lost by 10, and weren’t totally out of the game until the last 2 minutes. This team is far, far better than it was a year ago. As I’ve said since the schedule was set, we just have to be able to turn that into wins on the road against teams that are beatable.

Beautiful night for football. Took a full two hours to get there from Fairfield, pulled into the parking lot at 5:10 and the main blue lot, opposite the stadium, was already full. Had to park on the left as you looked at the stadium. I can not remember the prime part of the blue lot full over 2 hours before a game in forever. And the crowd showed from that. If you’re asking me how many fans were in the stadium (recognizing that our “40 k” capacity includes all players, stadium workers, etc. who aren’t in the stands, and I think the stadium seats around 38 to 38.5k), I’d say about 33k, clearly the best crowd since Michigan 11 years ago. And maybe more students since — well — ever. Eventually we have to get people to show up and actually pay for their tickets, but it was great to see an almost full house. Credits to thone who made it happen. And the game was competitive, and one which most people stayed with for a long time.

So we lost a game we stayed in. We lost for two reasons. One, as I said, they simply have more athletes on their squad then we do, and it would have taken something other than winning winnable individual battles to get the W. And in fact, the something else was the refs and it went the other way. Both of State’s scoring drives in the 2d half were helped on by penalties that weren’t “not” penalties but didn’t have to be called either. On the Rosa penalty, that set up the short kickoff and giving them under 30 yards to go for the clinching TD, I will be the first to admit that I don’t know the exact letter of the rule — maybe he did break one that had to be called. But he didn’t taunt anyone, and his individual flip celebration was no worse than we see after most TDS (or even sacks or takeaways) that are done without taunting. I am all for cracking down on taunting fouls, but I don’t know why that was worse than what we see all the time. On the drive that preceded Rosa’s run, the PI on bin Wahad was frustrating as heck, because he had position, he had all day just to turn once for the ball and he didn’t, which allowed the call. There really wasn’t much contact, and given the potential PI’s not called on the Wolfpack this didn’t have to be called, but I get it. On the one after we stopped them on 4th and goal, that was worse. Again, I get what the ref called, and there was contact and Brown never looked for the ball, but Brown had position and the WR tried to go through him. I just don’t see how Brown was penalized for having position but not turning his head when he initiated no contact and because of the scramble didn’t know where the ball was coming from. But adding to the fact that these calls, while not flat our wrong, where not necessary is the fact that the Wolfpack were flagged once, for a false start, the entire game. This is football. To never find a single hold or interference — please.

O.k., offense, defense and special teams. On offense, the running game was fine. Rosa was obviously outstanding. There were no mistakes, other than the pick when we had to force things at the end of the game and Brewton getting in the wrong spot and running into a WR trying to take a shovel pass. On the first drive, we saw Fagnano do exactly what he was asked to do, including a nice throw that he had to sidearm on the run, and we were all hopeful. And then, the passing game looked like it did last year. And other than not making bad mistakes we didn’t see improvement. Other than Buckman receivers didn’t make tough catches, and many of the failed attempts for tough catches where were Fagnano didn’t need to make the catches tough. I was not surprised by a lack of arm strength, but I was surprised by how rarely he looked to a secondary receiver and that he didn’t have more touch. Look, it was opening night and this may be as good a pass defense as we play against all year. Let’s see how we do in Atlanta next week against a defense that got torched in the air by Rhode Island. But there is not question that in terms of passing opening night was both disappointing and troubling.

On defense, I thought we held up well against a good P-5 team. It wasn’t a great, dominant performance but it wasn’t supposed to be. Given how much we were on the field, other than not generating takeaways I don’t think you could have asked for much more. Durante Jones and Mitchell were really good. So was Jelani Stafford. I think Cross held up well playing for Dixon Williams (do we know what his injury was?). Other than that, we played a lot of folks (after the opening drive for a TD when the D came back out I think Mora made 8 changes to get his point across) and with one or two exceptions everyone was o.k. Yes, the offense they had came disproportionately from QB scrambles but you can’t take away everything from a good offense and I don’t think he ever gained more than 8 yards. The one defender whom I really thought looked unable to make plays at this level was Noah Plack in his debut. I need to see a much better job from him the next two games against lesser athletes. And, while he won’t play against many OTs as good as tonight, we need more from Eric Watts. He can’t be that quiet if we’re going to pull a big upset this year.

On specials teams, not a lot to say. Caratan looked much better punting the ball, Bruckman was safe on punt returns but didn’t let the ball bounce, Brewton looked dangerous on his one KR. McFadden does not have the leg strength that Noe Rulas does and shouldn’t be kicking off. If he is taking placements, fine, but I don’t get why he kicked off as well. His lack of leg strength, combined with Rosa’s penalty, poor coverage for the only time that night and then the unnecessary roughness (which I didn’t see so I won’t comment on, other than hoping the player who took the hit is o.k.) all contributed to take us out of the game.

I thought coming in that there are 5 games we’ll be material dogs in (NC State and Duke at home and Tenn, BC and JMU on the road), SHU, FIU, USF and USU at home and at UMass, and winnable road games at Rice and Georgia State that last year we would have lost because Road. Now, opponents may be better or worse than everyone anticipated pre-season, and Georgia State was lucky to beat Rhodes on Thursday, and I’m not saying we won’t pull a big upset or two, but Saturday night’s game is a most win. Get to Duke at 2-1 and we’ll be where we should have reasonably hoped to be. And let’s see what a passing offense that looked anemic on Thursday can do against a passing defense that was torched by a FCS team.

I’ll try to be more concise for week 2, but like with our passing offense it was opening night — be patient.

Nice write up, let’s hope the passing improves. I’d like to see Roberson get some snaps, unless he still isn’t 100%.

 

[Devland]

I looked up at the scoreboard Going into the last drive and we only had 65 yards passing . My guess is almost all of that was on the first drive. We picked up a other 50 or so on the last drive in garbage time. I was even more disappointed in the running game. Other than Rosa's long run, the running game was not really effective. Especially for a team whose strength was supposed to be a strong point.

 

[AllHusky]

I hope I am wrong, just did not i on pass the eye test on several throws that were unpressured.

I’m thinking he was brought in for competence and insurance in case TR not ready or Zion not progressing, not cause he was a big talent. Hope is that his adjustment period leads to greater production than last year or Thursday night. Fingers crossed

 

[ZOOCONN]

Right there with you on Plack. Even Tui Brown. There is noticeable drop in play at LB from last year. Swenson and Bouyer-Randle were really good. If the two guys flanking Jackson don't show something they have to look at other guys.

Plack had one good play that caused a huge sack but outside of that he had a rough night, mult missed tackles, over persued a bunch creating running lanes, poor coverage. Play like that is gonna put a ton of pressure on JM which is not good.

 

[ZOOCONN]

I don't believe he is 3rd string but any carries going to Brewton should go to Rosa. Find other ways to get Brewton involved that don't include limiting Vic's touches. I lol at the talk over the summer that he didn't have breakaway speed. Kid ran away from the NC State secondary like they were standing still.

I said it during the game, his next gear has really improved, last year he gets caught on that run. His top speed has increased and that is awesome.

 

[KembaKek]

I was really hoping to see some Nate Voorhis as a MIKE LB. Have really liked him since Jay Williams was promoting him out of high school. Not saying he should be in but was hoping he’d progress enough to play a big role this year. Was also my hope for Tui last year.

I LOVE Donovan Branch at DE, though. He’s very talented, another 2022 guy that I liked out of HS. Logged half a sack on Thursday.

 

[Patman]

Well, here's the thing. If it's not a judgment call, they would have called a penalty.

The whole point of this clowning is human bias.

Psst- Every rule is a judgment call.

And for the record he didn't dive in to the end zone. He did a flip.

All flips are initiated with a dive. This is ridiculous

 

[Hornet22]

Thursday night was somewhat of a mixed bag. On the one hand, no one likes losing, despite the fact that NC State simply had better athletes than us the game was there for the taking, and the fact that after our first drive you couldn’t differentiate last year’s passing offense from this years are all clear negatives. On the other hand, if we’re honest and realistic they are a better team than us, composed of better individual talent, and we weren’t going to win unless we got some breaks. And breaks were not there to be had. No officials call that helped us (as we will get into a moment, quite the opposite), no takeaways, nothing that would let a 15 point upset happen. So use opening night as a measuring stick. Last year they beat us 41-10, and let’s be honest — the game wasn’t nearly that close. They were up 31-3 at the half and if they wanted to beat us by much more they could have. This year, we lost by 10, and weren’t totally out of the game until the last 2 minutes. This team is far, far better than it was a year ago. As I’ve said since the schedule was set, we just have to be able to turn that into wins on the road against teams that are beatable.

Beautiful night for football. Took a full two hours to get there from Fairfield, pulled into the parking lot at 5:10 and the main blue lot, opposite the stadium, was already full. Had to park on the left as you looked at the stadium. I can not remember the prime part of the blue lot full over 2 hours before a game in forever. And the crowd showed from that. If you’re asking me how many fans were in the stadium (recognizing that our “40 k” capacity includes all players, stadium workers, etc. who aren’t in the stands, and I think the stadium seats around 38 to 38.5k), I’d say about 33k, clearly the best crowd since Michigan 11 years ago. And maybe more students since — well — ever. Eventually we have to get people to show up and actually pay for their tickets, but it was great to see an almost full house. Credits to thone who made it happen. And the game was competitive, and one which most people stayed with for a long time.

So we lost a game we stayed in. We lost for two reasons. One, as I said, they simply have more athletes on their squad then we do, and it would have taken something other than winning winnable individual battles to get the W. And in fact, the something else was the refs and it went the other way. Both of State’s scoring drives in the 2d half were helped on by penalties that weren’t “not” penalties but didn’t have to be called either. On the Rosa penalty, that set up the short kickoff and giving them under 30 yards to go for the clinching TD, I will be the first to admit that I don’t know the exact letter of the rule — maybe he did break one that had to be called. But he didn’t taunt anyone, and his individual flip celebration was no worse than we see after most TDS (or even sacks or takeaways) that are done without taunting. I am all for cracking down on taunting fouls, but I don’t know why that was worse than what we see all the time. On the drive that preceded Rosa’s run, the PI on bin Wahad was frustrating as heck, because he had position, he had all day just to turn once for the ball and he didn’t, which allowed the call. There really wasn’t much contact, and given the potential PI’s not called on the Wolfpack this didn’t have to be called, but I get it. On the one after we stopped them on 4th and goal, that was worse. Again, I get what the ref called, and there was contact and Brown never looked for the ball, but Brown had position and the WR tried to go through him. I just don’t see how Brown was penalized for having position but not turning his head when he initiated no contact and because of the scramble didn’t know where the ball was coming from. But adding to the fact that these calls, while not flat our wrong, where not necessary is the fact that the Wolfpack were flagged once, for a false start, the entire game. This is football. To never find a single hold or interference — please.

O.k., offense, defense and special teams. On offense, the running game was fine. Rosa was obviously outstanding. There were no mistakes, other than the pick when we had to force things at the end of the game and Brewton getting in the wrong spot and running into a WR trying to take a shovel pass. On the first drive, we saw Fagnano do exactly what he was asked to do, including a nice throw that he had to sidearm on the run, and we were all hopeful. And then, the passing game looked like it did last year. And other than not making bad mistakes we didn’t see improvement. Other than Buckman receivers didn’t make tough catches, and many of the failed attempts for tough catches where were Fagnano didn’t need to make the catches tough. I was not surprised by a lack of arm strength, but I was surprised by how rarely he looked to a secondary receiver and that he didn’t have more touch. Look, it was opening night and this may be as good a pass defense as we play against all year. Let’s see how we do in Atlanta next week against a defense that got torched in the air by Rhode Island. But there is not question that in terms of passing opening night was both disappointing and troubling.

On defense, I thought we held up well against a good P-5 team. It wasn’t a great, dominant performance but it wasn’t supposed to be. Given how much we were on the field, other than not generating takeaways I don’t think you could have asked for much more. Durante Jones and Mitchell were really good. So was Jelani Stafford. I think Cross held up well playing for Dixon Williams (do we know what his injury was?). Other than that, we played a lot of folks (after the opening drive for a TD when the D came back out I think Mora made 8 changes to get his point across) and with one or two exceptions everyone was o.k. Yes, the offense they had came disproportionately from QB scrambles but you can’t take away everything from a good offense and I don’t think he ever gained more than 8 yards. The one defender whom I really thought looked unable to make plays at this level was Noah Plack in his debut. I need to see a much better job from him the next two games against lesser athletes. And, while he won’t play against many OTs as good as tonight, we need more from Eric Watts. He can’t be that quiet if we’re going to pull a big upset this year.

On specials teams, not a lot to say. Caratan looked much better punting the ball, Bruckman was safe on punt returns but didn’t let the ball bounce, Brewton looked dangerous on his one KR. McFadden does not have the leg strength that Noe Rulas does and shouldn’t be kicking off. If he is taking placements, fine, but I don’t get why he kicked off as well. His lack of leg strength, combined with Rosa’s penalty, poor coverage for the only time that night and then the unnecessary roughness (which I didn’t see so I won’t comment on, other than hoping the player who took the hit is o.k.) all contributed to take us out of the game.

I thought coming in that there are 5 games we’ll be material dogs in (NC State and Duke at home and Tenn, BC and JMU on the road), SHU, FIU, USF and USU at home and at UMass, and winnable road games at Rice and Georgia State that last year we would have lost because Road. Now, opponents may be better or worse than everyone anticipated pre-season, and Georgia State was lucky to beat Rhodes on Thursday, and I’m not saying we won’t pull a big upset or two, but Saturday night’s game is a most win. Get to Duke at 2-1 and we’ll be where we should have reasonably hoped to be. And let’s see what a passing offense that looked anemic on Thursday can do against a passing defense that was torched by a FCS team.

I’ll try to be more concise for week 2, but like with our passing offense it was opening night — be patient.

Your analysis is always refreshing to read.

 

[Cnsmith]

It wasn't a win, but I still think we exceeded expectations.

We made a solid P5 team play us wire to wire. The reffing breaks went to them instead of us or else the scoring margin would have been 3 instead of 10.

And also... I'm legit hopeful every game now.

You are “legit hopeful” against Tenn?

 

[Nostical]

Nice synopsis. As much as it hurt us, I get the refs calling the penalty on the Rosa touchdown (yes it’s the rule) although, frankly, had it not been called, I doubt it would have resulted in NCSt’s coaches rushing the refs to howl about it.
And yes there was disparity in the penalty calls; which unfortunately happens all too often when the visiting team’s conference refs have no incentive to give the Independent any “special handling”.
But as for the other debacle of the night, the one most responsible for us losing the game, sorry, but there’s just no excuse (other than a coach’s stubborn philosophy) for not spying the QB after watching him scamper for multiple first downs—repeatedly—after we cut off his passing options. Fool us once, yup, twice, sure, three times,ok. But allowing him to scamper for first downs 14 times out of his 19 rushes? Wonder how long ND will wait before clamping down on him next week.
Hearing Mora say “we don’t spy” was the saddest comment of the night.

 

[Cnsmith]

Nice synopsis. As much as it hurt us, I get the refs calling the penalty on the Rosa touchdown (yes it’s the rule) although, frankly, had it not been called, I doubt it would have resulted in NCSt’s coaches rushing the refs to howl about it.
And yes there was disparity in the penalty calls; which unfortunately happens all too often when the visiting team’s conference refs have no incentive to give the Independent any “special handling”.
But as for the other debacle of the night, the one most responsible for us losing the game, sorry, but there’s just no excuse (other than a coach’s stubborn philosophy) for not spying the QB after watching him scamper for multiple first downs—repeatedly—after we cut off his passing options. Fool us once, yup, twice, sure, three times,ok. But allowing him to scamper for first downs 14 times out of his 19 rushes? Wonder how long ND will wait before clamping down on him next week.
Hearing Mora say “we don’t spy” was the saddest comment of the night.

The good news there is only three teams left on the schedule UConn should struggle against. Tenn, Duke and JMU. UConn should go at least 8-4. Anything less than that is a bad season given the easy schedule.

 

[Chief00]

Did you watch the Auburn game today?

It’s automatic if you are using the visiting school’s conference officials.

 

[Chief00]

Nice synopsis. As much as it hurt us, I get the refs calling the penalty on the Rosa touchdown (yes it’s the rule) although, frankly, had it not been called, I doubt it would have resulted in NCSt’s coaches rushing the refs to howl about it.
And yes there was disparity in the penalty calls; which unfortunately happens all too often when the visiting team’s conference refs have no incentive to give the Independent any “special handling”.
But as for the other debacle of the night, the one most responsible for us losing the game, sorry, but there’s just no excuse (other than a coach’s stubborn philosophy) for not spying the QB after watching him scamper for multiple first downs—repeatedly—after we cut off his passing options. Fool us once, yup, twice, sure, three times,ok. But allowing him to scamper for first downs 14 times out of his 19 rushes? Wonder how long ND will wait before clamping down on him next week.
Hearing Mora say “we don’t spy” was the saddest comment of the night.

Agree, if not spying some other formation that would have given us some second line of defense. Inexcusable.

 

[Chief00]

It is not, the rules are very clear:

Per the NCAA rulebook, players can’t do things that “provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game,” including but not limited to:

(e) An unopposed ball carrier obviously altering stride as he approaches the opponent’s goal line or diving into the end zone.

If that’s the rule it is all about a subjective view of “intent”. Was he being demeaning to the other team? I think not, there’s zero evidence to indicate that or through the reaction by the other team. Not even close.

 

[CL82]

Honestly, I don't think the talent level was that far apart. I thought the lines were about equal, the RBs about equal, the WRs? Not enough data. Their DBs were better, but we were in a prevent defense. Their LBs may have been better, but UConn didn't spy the QB. What killed us was their QB was able to scramble due to poor tackling and the defense UConn was playing to prevent the deep pass

I wondered about that too. Mora said unequivocally "we don't spy" but it did seem like it would've helped.

 

[businesslawyer]

I was really hoping to see some Nate Voorhis as a MIKE LB. Have really liked him since Jay Williams was promoting him out of high school. Not saying he should be in but was hoping he’d progress enough to play a big role this year. Was also my hope for Tui last year.

I LOVE Donovan Branch at DE, though. He’s very talented, another 2022 guy that I liked out of HS. Logged half a sack on Thursday.

I didn’t cover it because of how long my OP was anyway, but for those who didn’t notice it on third and longs Yates was moved to DT and we played with Watts (usually) and Branch at the ends. And we played 9 Dls, as opposed to last year where we barely played 7 (when Carter Hooper started getting a few snaps later in the season).