The trap! Auriemma's opinion

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#76
Nah. I disagree. There's an unwritten rule that you don't do that crap. You don't sit back in a half court M/M all game and then press when the managers check in. You don't tell your player to "go lay it up" when I've backed off in the last few seconds and said "No fouls", either. It's bush league.

Yes, absolutely true.
 
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#78
How UCF played at the end didn't bother me at all, and I'm not certain why it really should have bothered Geno. He always has taught that you play to a standard, not to a score, and that means playing hard to the end.

Seems to me that's what the UCF team did.

There is a HUGE difference between playing hard to the end, and going to a trap that you haven't used all game to try to embarrass a team's second and third stringers. Geno was 100% right to speak out.
 
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#79
Ooooohhh

Somebody goes out of the baseline with his spikes up to take out your shortstop you better be throwing at him first chance.

Otherwise you won’t have a job.

Unwritten rule.
It's an unwritten rule because MLB has refused to police the game and its players down through the years. Throwing at batters is the only retaliation or policing the game they have. Believe me, I understand the philosophy of retaliation in sports, especially baseball.

The commissioner could put a stop to throwing at batters tomorrow by making the penalty so severe, no one would throw at a batter. The penalties I'm thinking of would include automatic ejection of the pitcher, the catcher and the manager for multiple games, along with a very hefty fine for all. 5 games for everybody the first time. The penalties would then double for (for all 3) every occurrence (and keep doubling up to 162 games) after that. The fines would top out at 1 million dollars. Ownership would not look kindly upon managers being suspended for multiple games, and not being allowed to come to the ballpark.

Those penalties (games/fines) would escalate with each successive hit batter during a 162 day calendar. Fines and penalties would carry over to the next season. Games suspensions would follow a player if he is traded. The fastest way to get a player's attention is to take money from him, and take him off the playing field.

Remember the immortal words of the late UCLA basketball coach John Wooden: "the bench is an excellent teacher". The "bench" as Wooded referred to it, was meant in a different context, but the end result is exactly the same. A suspended player or manager would not be allowed to be in the dugout during games, practice or travel with the team. Sever penalties, YES!!! But the practice of throwing 90+mph fastballs at batter's heads would stop immediately. How "fair" is it to throw at the next guy up in the lineup for an action he had nothing to do with? :confused:

Somebody goes out of the baseline with his spikes up to take out your shortstop. When this happens, if a fine and a suspension from the league would quickly follow (like the next day), that type of activity would also stop IF....the penalty were severe enough. 99% of the time, the league does nothing, so the players take matters into their own hands.

I remember Chris Sale intentionally throwing at Bryce Harper [and hitting him] at the beginning of Harper's rookie season, for no other reason than Sale thought Harper was "too cocky", and felt Harper needed to be taught a lesson. That's BS. I lost all respect for Sale that day. Some American League pitchers are cowards. They can throw at guys all season long without fear of reprisal because they never have to bat.

The player's association would NEVER agree to penalties as harsh and stiff as these, even though their entire membership would benefit from its adoption and implementation.

But.........if they did, I think you would agree that intentionally throwing at batters would cease IMMEDIATELY!! THAT is the idea behind this thought. A player (Ray Chapman) has already been killed in MLB as the result of being beaned in 1920. Chapman was hit in the head by a pitch thrown by Yankees pitcher Carl Mays, and died 12 hours later. He remains the only Major League Baseball player to have died from an injury received during an MLB game. That is a record I would not like to see broken.
 
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CL82

Trust the process
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#80
What are the other unwritten rules ? Is their a most updated manual somewhere ?
If you have the lead and take possession with less than a full shot clock, you let the clock run out without taking a final shot.
 
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#81
It's an unwritten rule because MLB has refused to police the game and its players down through the years. Throwing at batters is the only retaliation or policing the game they have. Believe me, I understand the philosophy of retaliation in sports, especially baseball.

The commissioner could put a stop to throwing at batters tomorrow by making the penalty so severe, no one would throw at a batter. The penalties I'm thinking of would include automatic ejection of the pitcher, the catcher and the manager for multiple games, along with a very hefty fine for all. 5 games for everybody the first time. The penalties would then double for (for all 3) every occurrence (and keep doubling up to 162 games) after that. The fines would top out at 1 million dollars. Ownership would not look kindly upon managers being suspended for multiple games, and not being allowed to come to the ballpark.

Those penalties (games/fines) would escalate with each successive hit batter during a 162 day calendar. Fines and penalties would carry over to the next season. Games suspensions would follow a player if he is traded. The fastest way to get a player's attention is to take money from him, and take him off the playing field.

Remember the immortal words of the late UCLA basketball coach John Wooden: "the bench is an excellent teacher". The "bench" as Wooded referred to it, was meant in a different context, but the end result is exactly the same. A suspended player or manager would not be allowed to be in the dugout during games, practice or travel with the team. Sever penalties, YES!!! But the practice of throwing 90+mph fastballs at batter's heads would stop immediately. How "fair" is it to throw at the next guy up in the lineup for an action he had nothing to do with? :confused:

Somebody goes out of the baseline with his spikes up to take out your shortstop. When this happens, if a fine and a suspension from the league would quickly follow (like the next day), that type of activity would also stop IF....the penalty were severe enough. 99% of the time, the league does nothing, so the players take matters into their own hands.

I remember Chris Sale intentionally throwing at Bryce Harper [and hitting him] at the beginning of Harper's rookie season, for no other reason than Sale thought Harper was "too cocky", and felt Harper needed to be taught a lesson. That's BS. I lost all respect for Sale that day. Some American League pitchers are cowards. They can throw at guys all season long without fear of reprisal because they never have to bat.
I disagree - its self policing by the players and it works. Far better than another set of rules and regs.

No way a commissioner makes the game a better game that way.

The players know for the most part whats intentional and what isn't . Especially around 2nd, and almost always in the batters box..
There is no way a commissioner can be a better arbiter of intent than the players - no way.

Personally, I'd rather see them roll back the rules at 2nd and especially the blocking rules at home plate. Arms length to the bag is okay - but you have mostly removed the double play breakup from the game. An exciting element has been removed, one requiring elevated skills by both the runner and the fielder. Its just gone from the game. Is the game better for it ? , I say NO. I agree with Pedroia, those rules are for pu**ies and players with bad footwork.

Brushbacks are part of the game - you wanna give that part away too ?

I don't recall Sale throwing at the greatest Philly since Schmidt.

I hate people meddling with something that works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Its all part of the game, most of the latest rules and those on the table now, especially balls and strike "solutions" just make it less of a game.

IMO
 
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#83
This is another example of the current unfortunate ethos: "If it's not explicitly illegal, it's fine to do it at any time."

Not a subscriber here.
Obviously it is legal to trap anytime anywhere. If you don't want it to happen change the rules.
Rules or laws that are not rules or laws, they are nothing and they are open to the opinion/views of the person stating them. The unwritten rules/law don't exist. Try arresting anyone with the violation of an unwritten law.
 
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#84
Ooooohhh

Somebody goes out of the baseline with his spikes up to take out your shortstop you better be throwing at him first chance.

Otherwise you won’t have a job.

Unwritten rule.
You live in a era of litigation. Should spiking or beaning with the ball cause serious damage some one will sue and win and these practices will end. Beaning does cause brain damage that mostly shows up year later a seriously bad practice.
 
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#85
You live in a era of litigation. Should spiking or beaning with the ball cause serious damage some one will sue and win and these practices will end. Beaning does cause brain damage that mostly shows up year later a seriously bad practice.
CRYING ? THERE"S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL !

Suing ? There's no suing in baseball

Works for no one in any sport --- proving intent is extremely difficult

How do you prove a beanball vs a bad pitch --- you can't
How do you prove intent to injure vs somebody just out of control - you can't

It would set up a system where any and every hit batsman could sue.

Even Sabean was wrong to push the Posey Rule.

Everyone in the game accepts the risks and knows the rules.

Surrender anything to a court system and you have zero consistency of outcome -- end result is worse for any game.

Every city will have a different outcome depending if the incident happened at home or away.

Even more to the point - its worse for every fan - you'll ruin a great game for what ?

The path you suggest is a dead end for everybody.

Hell, I don't even like the nets around past the dugouts.
Read the back of the damn ticket and follow the first rule anybody who played the game learned or as a little kid the first time you even watched a game --- KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL
 
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#88
If you have the lead and take possession with less than a full shot clock, you let the clock run out without taking a final shot.
Because it does not make a difference, whether you score or not. If you just want to make the death a little more merciful, it is up to you. A game is 40 min. The book didn’t say, if you lead by 20, games would end 30:30. Should there be a rule on when the starters should get off the court during the 4th quarter? Many people blamed Geno for leaving the starters on the court for too long. I looked at as he wants to give his startersmore time to gel in a real battle. So I would not blame UCF for the trap either, that was their last chance before the big dance to practice in a real game. It will be useful for them in a closer game during the tournament. On the other hand, our bench players should be grateful that they had an opportunity to practice on how to handle a trap. Win-win situation. If excessive fouls occur, let’s blame the refs for allowing them to happen!
 
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CocoHusky

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#90
Actually I like it a bit. She just would not quit! Lobo should show this clip to her again and again if they are on the panel.
I can actually see both sides of this. However, I firmly come down on the side that says you can never control what the other guy is going to do- therefore be prepared for ALL the possibilities however stupid or unsportsmanlike you thing they maybe. Muffet McGraw was criticized here and during the broadcast for not fouling in the waning seconds of the of the 2015 finals.
 
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#91
I disagree - its self policing by the players and it works. Far better than another set of rules and regs.

No way a commissioner makes the game a better game that way.

The players know for the most part whats intentional and what isn't . Especially around 2nd, and almost always in the batters box..
There is no way a commissioner can be a better arbiter of intent than the players - no way.

Personally, I'd rather see them roll back the rules at 2nd and especially the blocking rules at home plate. Arms length to the bag is okay - but you have mostly removed the double play breakup from the game. An exciting element has been removed, one requiring elevated skills by both the runner and the fielder. Its just gone from the game. Is the game better for it ? , I say NO. I agree with Pedroia, those rules are for pu**ies and players with bad footwork.

Brushbacks are part of the game - you wanna give that part away too ?

I don't recall Sale throwing at the greatest Philly since Schmidt.

I hate people meddling with something that works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Its all part of the game, most of the latest rules and those on the table now, especially balls and strike "solutions" just make it less of a game.

IMO
I know there would be some who would disagree with my proposal. It's extremely radical. Bottom line, I don't want to see/hear of a player getting beaned and die, or suffer a career ending injury because of taking a 90 mph fastball on his helmet. It looks like my post drew your ire:"I hate people meddling with something that works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Whether something is broke or not cannot be decided by one person. There are lots of long time BB fans that don't like pitchers throwing at batters intentionally. People can see a play or situation differently, like a play in basketball that can be called a charge or a block. It depends on your perspective. MLB would survive if pitchers stopped intentionally throwing at batters.

A recent rant by Manny Machado suggests that he does not agree with you, suggesting that "MLB should do something about it." I don't hate anyone that has an opinion that's different from mine. If I did, I would stop visiting the Boneyard. As for Sale throwing at Harper, I was watching the game when it happen. It did happen. One cannot see or remember everything that happens in sports. This is a UConn WBB forum, not a MLB forum, so I won't go into a deeper debate with you. I made a comment, you responded, we disagree on this, so we'll leave it there. ;)
 
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IWearShoes

Mississippi State
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#92
I don’t know if Coach Abe realizes that Geno did her and her team a big favor. Right now, Charlie Creme is projecting UCF as a 10 seed. Had Geno kept UConn’s press on through the 3rd qtr and beyond, the Huskies win by 40, perhaps knocking down UCF to an 11 or 12 seed. As a 12 seed, UCF ends up playing against 4 seed at their home arena.
Well, gotta beat the 5 seed first.;)
 
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#93
In baseball I draw the line between a beanball and throwing behind a batter or at some body part other than the head. If it is retaliation for a spikes up I’m all for throwing at a batter - but not their head.

The rules concerning blocking home plate are a bit more confusing. I always thought blocking when the ball was nowhere near the plate was ridiculous but the new rules may have gone too far.

And I have to say I think the virtual elimination of the brushback pitch has made life tougher on pitchers. Bob Gibson was the master of the brushback.
 

oldude

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#95
In baseball I draw the line between a beanball and throwing behind a batter or at some body part other than the head. If it is retaliation for a spikes up I’m all for throwing at a batter - but not their head.

The rules concerning blocking home plate are a bit more confusing. I always thought blocking when the ball was nowhere near the plate was ridiculous but the new rules may have gone too far.

And I have to say I think the virtual elimination of the brushback pitch has made life tougher on pitchers. Bob Gibson was the master of the brushback.
Bob Gibson brushback? Hell, Gibson would send a message by drilling a hitter squarely in the back.
 
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#97
Thanks for the video clip. That was, at the very least, trashy. I am all for playing hard and celebrating small victories, but they werent doing that. Rather than congratulating teammates on good defensive play, they were openly mocking an opposing player. Over the line and should have merited at least a bench warning if not a T.
 
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#98
Oh you can rest assured that NEXT time they play, Geno won't call off the dogs until the UCF coach is waving a white flag.
GDawg, I agree with everything you said, except for the above excerpt. Until then, your reasons were solidly grounded in unwritten and widely observed standards of sportsmanship. But if Geno followed your prediction, who would he be hurting— their players, not the coach— and what example would he be setting? I'd like to think he'd be taking the high road, instructing by example, not by retribution.
 
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#99
CRYING ? THERE"S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL !

Suing ? There's no suing in baseball

Works for no one in any sport --- proving intent is extremely difficult

How do you prove a beanball vs a bad pitch --- you can't
How do you prove intent to injure vs somebody just out of control - you can't

It would set up a system where any and every hit batsman could sue.

Even Sabean was wrong to push the Posey Rule.

Everyone in the game accepts the risks and knows the rules.

Surrender anything to a court system and you have zero consistency of outcome -- end result is worse for any game.

Every city will have a different outcome depending if the incident happened at home or away.

Even more to the point - its worse for every fan - you'll ruin a great game for what ?

The path you suggest is a dead end for everybody.

Hell, I don't even like the nets around past the dugouts.
Read the back of the damn ticket and follow the first rule anybody who played the game learned or as a little kid the first time you even watched a game --- KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL
As Naive as I was and am, I expect sports, at the HS and College level to be for the love of the game with fairness for all.
I agree stay out of court, if possible, the outcome isn't a given.
To prove the case of someone being told by coach ---bean this guy or take it on their own may seem difficult. Prosecutors rely on those involve to hear either to say--I am going to or you must Bean him. Someone always blabs. When more than one holds a secret believe someone shall talk. That IS a given.
Even pro's who "keep their eye on the ball" are beaned. Don't ask HS or College kids to be more alert than pro's.
However this is about Women's BB not baseball or football or the legal system. We are only speaking of RULES. If you want everyone on every team in the conference to have the same view of the playing field and what is expected--WRITE it down don't expect coaches or all player to think the same. It works better for everyone.
 
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You wanted an explanation for why Geno was hot. That's it. You've obviously never coached before. I'm not saying you have to be a coach to understand the game of basketball. I am saying you have to be a coach to know that there are unwritten rules in the coaching fraternity and doing horsecrap like that will get called out. There's no rule saying you can't bunt to break up a no-hitter in the 8th inning, but if you do it to my pitcher you're getting earholed next AB.
not a fan of trapping at that point in the game, either, but, since you mentioned it, most baseball people have no problem with bunting to break up a no-hitter.
 

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