The Refs

[Tonyc]

Here we play to ranked teams. Againest MD they let almost everything go. Shoving, pushing , banging and very few calls. Last nite PS and theyre calling everything and neither team can get into a flow. At one point they called about 5-6 fouls in less then a minute.

My gripe is we need consistency in every game, so the coaches players and fans know what to expect. IMO in neither game were either about to get into a flow. Last nite 29 fouls called and we were mid way through the 2ed half.

Lets throw out our opinions and ideas and maybe somebody will read this. LOL

 

[CTyankee]

For one thing it's obvious that the referees assigned to do the "elite games" are not getting enough time to recover between matches. Two of them did the Baylor - ND game on Wednesday night and then did the UConn game last night... This shows that there might not be enough qualified referees available to allow adequate rest between assignments...

It also might show that there has not been adequate training and development to bring additional referees up to the elite level.

Additionally it might also show failures in the assignment process and possibly an "old boy" network of game assignments at the "elite game" level...

No wonder Geno said in his news conference that it was an area which needed attention...

 

[SallyH]

It felt more like a Big10 football game than a basketball game, didn't it.

 

[pap49cba]

Total fouls called -

ND/Baylor - 29
Uconn/MD - 28
Uconn/PSU - 38

 

[doggydaddy]

I couldn't believe all the contact in the post between Dolson and the bigs from Penn State. Close to a wrestling match.

And then they called all the ticky tack fouls on the perimeter.

I don't know if it looked as bad on TV. I haven't watched my DVR of the game yet but in person from right under the basket, it was a horribly officiated game.

 

[Tonyc]

Doggy you see alot more at the game in person then you do on tv. Stef spends more time on the floor then Tiff. Lets see if they let that go againest Griner and Stanford???????????

 

[vtcwbuff]

Doggy you see alot more at the game in person then you do on tv. Stef spends more time on the floor then Tiff. Lets see if they let that go againest Griner and Stanford???????????

I agree that Dolson is spending a lot of time on the floor but much of it looks like she is just off balance.

 

[pap49cba]

Stanford is shaping up to be a massive wrestling match.

 

[UcMiami]

Last night the total fouls were 38 and the total minutes played 40 - so basically 1 foul per minute! Makes for some pretty unwatchable basketball. The interesting thing is that with a few exception, I thought most of the fouls were real - you could question whether it was offensive or defensive, but not whether contact occurred. And there was a fair amount of hard contact that wasn't called as well. So some of the onus for all the fouls hasn't to be on the players themselves.
I do think the women have become stronger and faster in the last decade and the officiating hasn't kept up. And I do think it is pretty crazy to have two officials doing back to back games 800 miles apart.
It has also been surprising the number of calls being made this year where two officials make different calls on the same play and have to confer. You expect that on balls out of bounds, but not on so many fouls.
And ... 3 second calls - my understanding of the rule is that the count on that resets as soon as a player in the lane gets the ball, but I keep seeing it called a second after the pass goes in. Do the refs not know the rule, or am I mistaken?

 

[ThisJustIn]

Wellllll... obviously, these refs agreed the women's game had gotten far to physical for its own good and decided to stop it.

CT - I have been targeted as an "official defender," but what you say is quite on point -- and has been being said by me (and officials) for a long while.

Point For one thing it's obvious that the referees assigned to do the "elite games" are not getting enough time to recover between matches.

a: they're independent contractors. you've seen how the effort to restrict the number of games top refs can call has gone in the NBA. Not at all. Unless you hire them full time, pay them benefits etc., the top coaches are going to want the top refs. Conferences have not and will not spend the money.

I have had coaches say, "I'd rather have *fillinthenameofarefyouknow* on her fifth game in a row than a newbie." The top refs do take care of themselves -- in an ideal world, they fly out that night reviewing the game DVD on the way, hit an airport hotel, sleep, get up and hit the gym, take a cat nap, then go to the game. If that's enough recovery time, I don't konw.

It also might show that there has not been adequate training and development to bring additional referees up to the elite level.
b: they're independent contractors. that means they either pay a hefty sum (plus travel, food, board) out of their own pocket in the hope that the "weekend with *topref* will improve their skills & chances to be seen OR the Conferences pay to train them -- footing the bill top to bottom. Conferences have not and will not spend the money.

Additionally it might also show failures in the assignment process and possibly an "old boy" network of game assignments at the "elite game" level...

There's little doubt who the Conferences (and, since the coaches submit feedback every game) think are the elite folks. (Remember, it's the Conferences who have "jurisdiction" over the officials during the regular season, and the NCAA during the NCAA tournament.) That being said, just like there aren't that many "elite" women's basketball coaches (and men's) there aren't that many elite referees -- and it's hard for any involved to trust a newbie, much less be patient with their on-the-job-training.

If anyone cares, here's a series of articles that explores the issues a tad more deeply.

MAKING THE CALLS: The World of Referees

COACHES AND OFFICIALS: Reaching Across the Divide – A look at the relationship between officials and coaches and the impact on recruiting efforts

EARNING THEIR STRIPES: Officials in Training

OFFICIATING UNDER REVIEW: Coaches, Conferences and the NCAA Working to Collaborate

 

[60'sfan]

I don't think you're ever going to see the consistency you'd like. The refs are all a little different. Take major league baseball for example. The teams do studies on the umps so that they know how to handle them. In basketball, there is a lot of contact and it is the judgement of the refs that determines whether or not there has been a foul. Everyone has an opinion and the probability of a bad call is high. Some refs make adjustments if it appears that the game is getting too "chippy". Often you see the refs getting together because they did not see things the same way. It's a part of the game. I think they make a reasonable effort to treat both teams the same but they are probably influenced a little by the crowd. Uconn has a big advantage this year in that they can lose two or three players to foul trouble without if affecting their game significantly.

 

[UcMiami]

TJI - thanks - interesting post.

 

[Forty_four]

I agree that Dolson is spending a lot of time on the floor but much of it looks like she is just off balance.

Totally agree with your observation.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Seems that I see comments indicting more foul calls are needed, and I see comments indicating fewer fouls need to be called. Either way, UCONN has to play the game being called on any given night. As for rough play, it is going to happen more than often. Press and run those roughing you up, to exhaustion, I say.


Gonna be a fun ride this season, hop on board and enjoy the view.

 

[pap49cba]

Mike DiMauro ‏@BCgenius
8 fouls in 2:30. OK. I am prepared to say this now. Every women's basketball official in the United States of America sucks.

 

[UConnCat]

I think they make a reasonable effort to treat both teams the same but they are probably influenced a little by the crowd. Uconn has a big advantage this year in that they can lose two or three players to foul trouble without if affecting their game significantly.

I found this interesting blurb from a 2009 SI article I read a couple of weeks ago on physical play in the NCAA (mens). This study suggest that referees tend to even out the number of fouls called on each team which, ultimately, rewards aggressive, physical play:

Redefine the notion of what makes for a fairly whistled game. It might seem to be one in which each team is called for roughly the same number of fouls. But a team in a 2-3 zone won't commit nearly as many as one whose coach believes that physical play constitutes his best chance to win -- and the box score shouldn't reflect some false equivalence. Every ref in America should read a study released in November by Indiana University's Kelley School of Business, which found that the larger the foul differential between two teams, the more likely any subsequent foul will be charged to the team with fewer fouls. In other words, because referees by nature want to even out foul totals, aggressive play pays. As a remedy, study authors Kyle Anderson and David Pierce suggest educating officials about this tendency, and perhaps increasing the penalty for fouling.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/12/15/rough.play/1.html#ixzz2EOvSQkVe​

 

[magic]

There

For one thing it's obvious that the referees assigned to do the "elite games" are not getting enough time to recover between matches. Two of them did the Baylor - ND game on Wednesday night and then did the UConn game last night... This shows that there might not be enough qualified referees available to allow adequate rest between assignments...

It also might show that there has not been adequate training and development to bring additional referees up to the elite level.

Additionally it might also show failures in the assignment process and possibly an "old boy" network of game assignments at the "elite game" level...

No wonder Geno said in his news conference that it was an area which needed attention...

There is a reason certain refs are chosed to do certain "high profile " tv games. These particular officials are capable of calling the games and controlling these games the way wcb wants them to be called . Big money is involed in these tv games, and wcb wants competitive games between top ten teams. Wcb doesn't want anymore blowouts like we've seen in the past. (example: Uconn vs. UNC) to name one. I calls 'em the way I sees 'em!

 

[Tonyc]

When this UConn team is clicking on all cylinders they wont be beat. Right now theyre going through some growing pains. Dont forget we have a bunch of sophs and frosh we depend on. It will take a couple of games. Weve already seen what happens when theyre clicking. We'll be back and alot stronger because of this week.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Totally agree with your observation.

Tonight my wife said that Dolson may be having a problem if her weight loss was assymetrical and she is now top heavy.

 

[Icebear]

There

There is a reason certain refs are chosed to do certain "high profile " tv games. These particular officials are capable of calling the games and controlling these games the way wcb wants them to be called . Big money is involed in these tv games, and wcb wants competitive games between top ten teams. Wcb doesn't want anymore blowouts like we've seen in the past. (example: Uconn vs. UNC) to name one. I calls 'em the way I sees 'em!

Sorry, but when I read those names doing a game your assessment is the last thing I think of with them. They did nothing to enhance the viewing pleasure of the audience last night. 38 fouls yikes! Folks don't want game flow interrupted like that.

 

[Replicant]

Total fouls called -

ND/Baylor - 29
Uconn/MD - 28
Uconn/PSU - 38

And the two star players for each team (Lucas and Kaleena) both fouled out of the game. Guess they missed the memo about fans watching games for the entertainment value.

 

[Bestiarius]

There is much that can be done to improve officiating. It’s a very complex subject, so I’m going to limit my comments to televised NCAA games. This is just a sampling of my many ideas. Perhaps these will be implemented, (unlike my baseball suggestion of allowing 8 outs per inning).

I think officials are called upon to do too many things during a game. They can’t watch everything, So off loading tasks would be a good thing. For instance, why not call 3 sec violations from the scorer’s table. A score keeper could be assigned to this task using a device similar to the timer operating the 30 second clock. Currently, getting called for a 3 second violation is a rare and haphazard thing. Refs have a difficult time seeing these violations. The scorer’s table could use the TV monitor to make the calls. A much better vantage point.

Allow challenges and video review. Seems to be effective in football.

Announce to players and coaches how the game will be called. If players are allowed to be aggressive and the refs decide it’s getting out-of-hand, they should make an announcement to the coaches & players as to what will be changing. It’s unfair to call a game a certain way and then instantly start calling fouls that were not fouls previously.

The Umpire Strikes Back show – A half hour TV show during which the NCAA would “go to the video tape” to publicly review each foul and no-call including the coach’s sideline comments. Once a coach is publicly exposed to how often he/she is wrong about their continual protests, this sideline bickering will lessen. Currently, officials must spend too much time dealing with irate coaches. Besides, seeing these reviews could be an entertaining show for the fans.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Interesting suggestions -- I certainly agree video review of certain things that are, to a degree, black and white (like in football - in or out of bounds, fumble or not, control or not) would be helpful. I've had officials say that the out of bounds of whose hand call is amongst the toughest.)

There have been "You make the call" thangs -- on ref training sites and such. I think what you point out is the public "outing" of incorrect and/or correct calls. In the heat of the moment, coaches bellow. They then have the right to submit a tape of the game and point out what they were bellowing at. Often, then don't, because they realize the right call was made. Other times, the ref coordinator will respond, saying why it was correct or incorrect.

What's his name in football is getting quite the post-officiating career doing just that -- on public tv. Football is ahead of everyone on this -- they're doing the hard learning curve. Time for basketball and baseball to jump on board.

 

[uconnfan68]

For one thing it's obvious that the referees assigned to do the "elite games" are not getting enough time to recover between matches. Two of them did the Baylor - ND game on Wednesday night and then did the UConn game last night... This shows that there might not be enough qualified referees available to allow adequate rest between assignments...

It also might show that there has not been adequate training and development to bring additional referees up to the elite level.

Additionally it might also show failures in the assignment process and possibly an "old boy" network of game assignments at the "elite game" level...

No wonder Geno said in his news conference that it was an area which needed attention...

No one who has ever watched a game thinks there are only a handful of good refs... except whoever is assigning them to top games.

 

[ThisJustIn]

No one who has ever watched a game thinks there are only a handful of good refs... except whoever is assigning them to top games.​

So you're saying there are several handfuls of good refs coaching the lower levels of DI and upper levels of DII that aren't officiating the top teams because Barb Jacobs and Patty Broderick and such won't assign them?​