The Pressure is on Texas Now

[j66kicker]

Southie, I suspected that TX used to be a bigger draw back when they were winning championships. Thanks for filling in the details.

As for the attendance when the circus comes to town on Jan 15, for the good of WBB, I’m hoping there’s a full house on hand. If the Huskies are undefeated and ranked #1 at the time, and TX is rolling as well, surely Longhorn fans can fill the joint.

I'll be doing my part (but not as a Longhorn fan ). Been checking the TX site for individual game sales. They're still trying to sell season tix. Just added season mini-packs but no single game tix yet. UConn fans - if you want to do a top 5 matchup away game in a party town, this is it. See you on 6th Street! (Do it!)

 

[CocoHusky]

I haven't done the research but I think it's fair to say that there's been more basketball talent coming out of Texas in the past few years then any other area of the country and by a wide margin.....

The talent has always been cyclical and this is not the first time Texas has dominated. In consecutive years 2009 and 2010 Texas kids dominated the top of the recruiting board with players like Brittney Griner , Kelsey Bone, Odssey Sims and Chiney Ogwumike. By 2013 the Talent pool had shifted drastically, the highest rated Texas kid in the class was Imani Wright at #31. More important than where the talent is from is where they end up going to school.
If you take the top ranked Texas kids since 2011 only Moriah Jefferson and Brianna Turner have achieved AA status . The data kind of says if you are a highly ranked Texas kid who wants to become an AA then go out of state. For Texas kids determined to stay in state then Baylor appears to be a better option than Texas.

 

[Alydar]

Gail Goestenkors had a winning reputation and a great offensive philosophy, but she couldn't win at Texas like she did at Duke. I thought she would succeed, but she didn't understand the Texas recruiting landscape and didn't make the right coaching hires. So, not every coach wins at a school just because it has tremendous resources. Just look at a school like Florida.

Coach Aston is succeeding where Coach G failed; she has steadily increased the talent level exponentially from what she inherited. She didn't come with the big-name reputation like Coach G, but she is a dynamic recruiter who obviously relates very well to recruits and their families. She is signing great recruits despite not having won the conference title yet, or reached a Final Four. When she achieves those milestones, then hopefully things fall into place and her squads are serious national championship contenders annually.

I'm curious what it was about the "Texas recruiting landscape" she didn't understand? Is there something unique to Texas as far as recruiting?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'm curious what it was about the "Texas recruiting landscape" she didn't understand? Is there something unique to Texas as far as recruiting?

I can (very non-specifically) say that word was she didn't properly embrace Texas WBB icons and didn't really reach out and relate to Texas high school (and for all I know, AAU) coaches. We had one of those "icons" briefly at RU as an Assistant Coach (for a year) and that's the source for the above. I'm sure the Texas fans can supply more detail.

 

[swimswam]

I can (very non-specifically) say that word was she didn't properly embrace Texas WBB icons and didn't really reach out and relate to Texas high school (and for all I know, AAU) coaches. We had one of those "icons" briefly at RU as an Assistant Coach (for a year) and that's the source for the above. I'm sure the Texas fans can supply more detail.

I’ve always felt like a lot of that with Coach G was a little overblown. She actually recruited well. The majority of the highly touted recruits that she recruited had career medical/career ending injuries. Two of the highly touted recruits that Coach G recruited that battled through injury and ended up being good players for Karen were Nneka Enemkpali and Imani.

 

[Bestiarius]

good points but isn't it fair to say that Texas and Baylor are geographically blessed, at least for the time being? I haven't done the research but I think it's fair to say that there's been more basketball talent coming out of Texas in the past few years then any other area of the country and by a wide margin....and it seems that in WBB the players have a greater desire to stay close to home, thus you folks have been in an ideal position to clean up in the recruiting game...now in looking at the next few classes, it seems that Texas is not going to be quite as productive, so let's see if Mulkey and Aston can keep the recruiting gravy train going with out of state players.....

It's difficult to say what is fair to say when discussing recruits from the state of Texas.

When discussing desire to stay close to home one must take Texas' size into consideration. The land area of Texas is about 262,000 square miles. To compare "close to home with other states, you'd have to match Texas with a combination of many states. A combination of these states would equal Texas in size. RI, DEL, CT, NJ, MA, NH, VT, MD, WV, SC, ME, IN, VA, KY, and part of OH. Add up the number of recruits from these 15 states and see how it compares with Texas. Because of it's size, TX recruits are less likely to experience what life in other states is like since they are so far away. Would this tend to cause recruits to stay in state?

Living in RI, is a different story. Drive 20 minutes or less and you're in another state or in the ocean. But U Texas and Baylor are quit centrally located. That would reduce the travel time for many Texas recruits.

Population must also be considered when comparing Texas with elsewhere. Texas is the second most populous state - about 27.65 million. But it doesn't take many smaller Northeastern states to equal that number. For instance NY coupled with NJ.

In short, it is difficult to make valid conclusions about Texas vs other recruiting areas. Too many variables to consider.

 

[gamer]

Thanks for that great analysis on Texas' size. You realize it's big when you look at a map, but when you add up the other states that would take to equal it, it really hits you. That must be one of the explanations of why leaving the state may seem like a bigger deal than to kids from a lot of other states. From many parts of Texas, you can drive for 8, 10, or 12 hours and you still aren't close to getting out. Plus, also there's that Texas frame of mind, for better or worse. Texans are brought up to identify with the state, sometimes it feels more even than with the country. Believe it or not, kids in school say the pledge of allegiance to the country and then keep standing there and say the pledge of allegiance to Texas. (I am very embarrassed by this.) That didn't used to be the case, but was added in sometime in the last however many years, since a certain type of state leaders have gotten more of a stranglehold on the government. To some kids, it may almost feel a little treasonous to consider going out of state to play basketball. Hopefully that will all change some day (not for basketball!!) but for things in general.

 

[augustaTC]

With Collier decommitting and going back to Texas it makes you wonder why? Was Texas still recruiting her? It all really doesnt matter now shes gone and back with Texas who has alot of very good players. Now what happens if TX doesnt win it all? What happens if they struggle? Will recruits look at TX for a school have second thoughts about winning a NC? Will those players at TX have second doubts about winning a NC? I would think so. The pressure is on Karen now to produce a NC. However we have seen many big named schools with alot of top AAs never win a NC and some of the schools have lost and not competed for a NC consistently. Only UConn is a real threat.

For those of you who hurt or are upset with Collier leaving. Dont be. She left TX and came to UConn and left UConn to go back to TX. IMO when you decide to leave you cant go back and have it the way you wanted it or the way it was, of the way you thought it was. When you know its over, its over. Geno doesnt work that way. UConn is Great because of Geno's ethics and expectations. Every player has to work for what they get. Thats one of the big differences in UConn.

So dont worry about players leaving. EDD left and UConn still won NC's. Wilson didnt come and UConn still won NCs. Way back when there were some people behind the scenes working to get Tina Charles Jayne Appel and Kia Vaughn to UConn and Tina still won NC's. So dont be concerned. Geno is in charge and so far he's done a pretty good job and this year without a paycheck.

I'm sure Geno has long gotten over this. Happens regularly. Not so sure about BY members though.

 

[Charliebball]

I'm sure Geno has long gotten over this. Happens regularly. Not so sure about BY members though.

can't speak for Geno but it's one thing to outright loose a recruit on decision day, it's another to loose a player who has already verbally committed to your school........I don't think that is a regular occurrence at UConn............yes.............there are many folks here with very long memories

 

[southie]

good points but isn't it fair to say that Texas and Baylor are geographically blessed, at least for the time being? I haven't done the research but I think it's fair to say that there's been more basketball talent coming out of Texas in the past few years then any other area of the country and by a wide margin....and it seems that in WBB the players have a greater desire to stay close to home, thus you folks have been in an ideal position to clean up in the recruiting game...now in looking at the next few classes, it seems that Texas is not going to be quite as productive, so let's see if Mulkey and Aston can keep the recruiting gravy train going with out of state players.....

The state of Texas does produce quite a bit of talent. Some years, though, it seems as if the talent is heavy at one position. In 2017, there were so many elite PGs available; Texas, Baylor, and A&M all snagged one, but so did out of state schools like Stanford and Georgia. This season, it sure seems to be the year of the frontcourt players; Texas snagged a couple, and Baylor has one so far

In 2019, the state doesn't seem to have as many ranked highly in the rankings; but, Nyah Green is high up there, but has chosen Louisville. The 2020 class in state is absolutely loaded. For Texas, I think we will sign a small 2019 class (2 signeess) so that we can try and load up in the 2020 class (4 signees).

As for out of state recruiting, Baylor has been doing is successfully for many years with players such as Kalani Brown. Looks like Mulkey may end up with 3 of her 4 signees for 2018 from out of state, if not more. Texas is turning it up on a national recruiting level, signing Alecia Sutton Missouri) in 2016, Rellah Boothe (Florida) and Destiny Littleton (California) in 2017, and fighting hard for Christyn Williams (Arkansas) in 2018.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The talent has always been cyclical and this is not the first time Texas has dominated. In consecutive years 2009 and 2010 Texas kids dominated the top of the recruiting board with players like Brittney Griner , Kelsey Bone, Odssey Sims and Chiney Ogwumike. By 2013 the Talent pool had shifted drastically, the highest rated Texas kid in the class was Imani Wright at #31. More important than where the talent is from is where they end up going to school.
If you take the top ranked Texas kids since 2011 only Moriah Jefferson and Brianna Turner have achieved AA status . The data kind of says if you are a highly ranked Texas kid who wants to become an AA then go out of state. For Texas kids determined to stay in state then Baylor appears to be a better option than Texas.

View attachment 25343

Nneka was two years ahead of Chiney. Don't know where she was ranked but almost certainly top 10.

 

[CocoHusky]

Nneka was two years ahead of Chiney. Don't know where she was ranked but almost certainly top 10.

Nneka was ranked 6th in the 2008 class by ESPN.
2008 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

 

[nwhoopfan]

Wow, looking at those recruiting rankings from days gone by are interesting. EDD and Nneka rose way above the rest of their class. A few others have turned out to be solid pros. I don't think #18 Liz Lay ever played for Washington, career was derailed by injuries.

edited--Tennessee had 5 in the top 20 that they parlayed into...zero Championships and zero Final 4's, is that possible? That group just missed being carried on Parker's back and the Vols haven't done a whole lot since then.

 

[bballnut90]

Wow, looking at those recruiting rankings from days gone by are interesting. EDD and Nneka rose way above the rest of their class. A few others have turned out to be solid pros. I don't think #18 Liz Lay ever played for Washington, career was derailed by injuries.

edited--Tennessee had 5 in the top 20 that they parlayed into...zero Championships and zero Final 4's, is that possible? That group just missed being carried on Parker's back and the Vols haven't done a whole lot since then.

They put together really good teams in 2010 and 2011 (32-3 and 34-3) but ran into Griner in 2010 and Diggins in 2011. 2012 was a tough year with Pat's dementia going public and the team really struggled. Since Pat's last year where she was really running the show (2011...2012 Holly took over most HC duties), it has been pretty much all downhill since then.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Granted Tennessee has 5 Elite 8's since their last Title in '08. Many programs would consider that good, but for the truly elite in women's hoops it's Final 4 or bust. UConn, Notre Dame and Stanford have been racking up FF since '08 and Louisville, South Carolina, Baylor, Oklahoma and Maryland all have multiple FF appearances in that time frame. A decade is a long drought for a program with Tennessee's history.

 

[bballnut90]

Granted Tennessee has 5 Elite 8's since their last Title in '08. Many programs would consider that good, but for the truly elite in women's hoops it's Final 4 or bust. UConn, Notre Dame and Stanford have been racking up FF since '08 and Louisville, South Carolina, Baylor, Oklahoma and Maryland all have multiple FF appearances in that time frame. A decade is a long drought for a program with Tennessee's history.

The only difference is Tennessee has still hauled on Final Four caliber talent year in and out and has always underperformed under Holly. Off hand I know they've had the following top ten kids:
2011-Burdick and Massengale (both top 4)
2012-Graves (top 5)
2013-Russell and Deshields (both top 3)
2014-Nared
2015-Cooper (top 10 or top 5 depending on service)


Probably only Notre Dame and Connecticut have recruited better during the last ten years. No excuse why they've missed 9 straight Final Fours with all of the studs coming through the program.

Stanford/SC/Maryland haven't had that consistent flow of top 10 kids and they're still consistent Final Four threats. It really does boil down to coaching which is why I'm not optimistic that Tennessee makes the Final Four this year even with another great recruiting haul.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'm totally with you, I'm not a believer in Holly's coaching at all.


What's really striking is when you look at some non-traditional power schools that have crashed the Final 4 since Tennessee's last visit--Cal, Washington, Oregon St., Syracuse and Mississippi St.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm totally with you, I'm not a believer in Holly's coaching at all.


What's really striking is when you look at some non-traditional power schools that have crashed the Final 4 since Tennessee's last visit--Cal, Washington, Oregon St., Syracuse and Mississippi St.

And South Carolina.

 

[DefenseBB]

First off, I have not seen anyone or a group assert that CHW and Karen Ashton are cut out of the same cloth (i.e. Coach the same way). I would go absolutely bonkers on them as while I understand and agree her teams offense can be challenged at time, she ALWAYS maintains control and respect of her team and fans and her team always competes hard! She is a bit of a late bloomer at age 53 but she has done a very good job with that program. As GG proved, just because you have success at one high profile school does not guarantee success else where. The "Texas pipeline" was given a lower priority by her (she focused more nationally) and the HS/AAU coaches felt slighted. Her personal issues caused some issues and her lack of success considering how much they paid her ruffled many boosters.

Ashton was an assistant under Jody C as well as an assistant with Mulkey and knew the Texas landscape. She has Texas relevant again which except 2002-03 and 2003-04 they haven't been. Even under GG they were mediocre at best despite earning 5 NCAA bids (highest win total was 22!). That to me, shows she has done a very good job and add in that she wants to play a strong OOC, unlike her "Sicem" colleague shows she wants to make her club top echelon.

 

[nwhoopfan]

And South Carolina.

well they're kind of a new power

 

[MilfordHusky]

well they're kind of a new power

Yeah, they are sustaining their run, so it's not a one-time anomaly. But 8-10 years ago, they were an afterthought.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

can't speak for Geno but it's one thing to outright loose a recruit on decision day, it's another to loose a player who has already verbally committed to your school...I don't think that is a regular occurrence at UConn..yes...there are many folks here with very long memories

Although verbal commitments are worth the paper their printed on. Not an original thought, I know, but in general I agree with you that it has seldom happened to UConn. It is not, however, unheard of, if not common. You see a lot more of it on the football side.

 

[Charliebball]

Although verbal commitments are worth the paper their printed on. Not an original thought, I know, but in general I agree with you that it has seldom happened to UConn. It is not, however, unheard of, if not common. You see a lot more of it on the football side.

right.........I'm not sure who the last recruit to reverse a verbal to UConn was...........one of our group will surely know that

 

[CocoHusky]

right....I'm not sure who the last recruit to reverse a verbal to UConn was......one of our group will surely know that

Laura Harper and Crystal Langhorne are the only two I can think off.

 

[UConnCat]

Laura Harper and Crystal Langhorne are the only two I can think off.

Langhorne never committed to UConn. It wasn't clear why she bothered to visit Storrs. She attended First Night and some said she never cracked a smile.

Harper committed to UConn on a Sunday. Word of that made it's way to a certain coach in College Park, MD who then called a certain large AAU figure in Philadelphia who then spoke to Harper who promptly retracted her commitment by Monday. Or maybe it was Tuesday.

Jackie Gemelos committed to UConn in August 2004 and then de-committed in August 2005. There had been rumors that Gemelos was wavering but when asked by the UConn coaches she kept saying she's coming. Then she said she wasn't coming.

 

[Nuyoika]

Yeah, they are sustaining their run, so it's not a one-time anomaly. But 8-10 years ago, they were an afterthought.

Heck 5 years ago they were an after thought... I recall during the NCAA tourney selection show when SCar got #1 seed in I think 2014 it was. I looked at the screen and said... who the heck is South Carolina LOL A little recruiting and hard work can go a long way. They got their 1st natty! Unfortunately, statistically speaking it's likely their last. Odd how that works.

 

[CocoHusky]

Heck 5 years ago they were an after thought... I recall during the NCAA tourney selection show when SCar got #1 seed in I think 2014 it was. I looked at the screen and said... who the heck is South Carolina LOL A little recruiting and hard work can go a long way. They got their 1st natty! Unfortunately, statistically speaking it's likely their last. Odd how that works.

My Daughter was briefly on Dawn's recruiting radar when Dawn was at Temple. When I heard Dawn was taking the job at SC I was like: (W... curse words deleted) Dawn. I knew of SC in every other sport except Women's basketball.

 

[Nuyoika]

My Daughter was briefly on Dawn's recruiting radar when Dawn was at Temple. When I heard Dawn was taking the job at SC I was like: (W... curse words deleted) Dawn. I knew of SC in every other sport except Women's basketball.

At that point (2014) I thought they were best known for Equestrian. I was literally lost. I also wasn't using my SECN subscription so it was partially at fault.

 

[Carnac]

It's a common thought in the sports world that you've got to have the horses (thoroughbreds) before you can win a race. Well, Aston now has the "horses", so now what? Will the Longhorn fan base expect nothing less than a final four appearance the next few years, if not a championship? Has Texas supplanted Baylor as the #1 WCBB program in the state?

As a WCBB fan, I would love to attend those two games this year. I expect both arenas to be sold out months ahead. Being only 108 miles apart will assure both teams will travel well to the other's arena.

 

[oldude]

It's a common thought in the sports world that you've got to have the horses (thoroughbreds) before you can win a race. Well, Aston now has the "horses", so now what? Will the Longhorn fan base expect nothing less than a final four appearance the next few years, if not a championship? Has Texas supplanted Baylor as the #1 WCBB program in the state?

As a WCBB fan, I would love to attend those two games this year. I expect both arenas to be sold out months ahead. Being only 108 miles apart will assure both teams will travel well to the other's arena.

Baylor WBB draws much better than TX. Perhaps that will change this year.