... the next time a blue chip recruit makes a head-scratching college choice out of college. It ain’t for the gumbo.

[Kenny11]

Nobody forces you to go to college and not get paid(slave argument is so silly)
If you don’t want the benefits of going to college then don’t go.

I wouldn’t be opposed to getting paid for likeness per se but how the hell do you prevent the LSU car dealer(booster)from giving the best player in high school a cool Mil for a couple of TV ads

Things like that would happen, but oh well. Let them get paid for their likeness, let the best of the best get sneaker deals while in school. Let players do commercials for local/national businesses. At least this wouldn't destroy all of the other college sports.

 

[Guapo]

but we also have to agree that the “durr they are getting paid with a scholarship durr” is an incredibly stupid and bad argument. When there are coaches and admins getting paid millions and billions being thrown around for TV deals, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that this isn’t a major, big money business.

Why is Dabo worth 9 million dollars but Trevor Lawrence is only worth a scholarship valued at about 100k?

 

[Rewster]

I'm not saying they are slaves, but Zion should be allowed to go to the NBA out of his Sophomore year of High school if he would like. Alternatively he can go to Duke for 4 years without getting paid a dime if he'd like. But in a system like you have in college football were you have to play 3 years of football in school while people are making money off of you and your athletic window is limited then you have every right to complain.

The argument of college athletes being modern day slaves has been brought up nationally by some. Not suggesting anybody here has said it or not.
I agree with your statements. Give them free will to choose in all sports and be done with it. If pro leagues set an age limit that’s on them. Perhaps a feeder league in football develops.

 

[LIuconn]

The kids already are paid. A four year scholarship isn't cheap, that right there is worth a lot

What is the incremental cost of a 30th chair being in a classroom vs 29? It costs the institution next to nothing for a few extra kids to be on campus, then when ROI is factored in, they make a killing.

+ most kids at high tier football and hoops schools don't really get to choose which majors or classes they get to enroll in. 90% of it is a farce.

The model should be the European soccer academy system. It would destroy college sports, but so be it. The pro game would become exceptional.

 

[Travelman6]

but we also have to agree that the “durr they are getting paid with a scholarship durr” is an incredibly stupid and bad argument. When there are coaches and admins getting paid millions and billions being thrown around for TV deals, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that this isn’t a major, big money business.

Why is Dabo worth 9 million dollars but Trevor Lawrence is only worth a scholarship valued at about 100k?

I don't think it is a "stupid" argument at all. Scholarships can be valued at upwards of 200,000 or more for the four years. Plus it is not just that, but the room and board, the food, the personal trainers, etc. as I already mentioned.

Ya, it is not cold hard cash, but that doesn't mean the value should be undermined. Plus, how many of these kids actually go pro? Most of them do not. For a number of them, maybe they would not even go to UNI if not for playing a major sport. So they are being given something, a scholarship which impacts their future earnings, basically has a positive net effect for the rest of their life that maybe they would not get had they not played sports.

Again, a better solution for the money being generated by sports is maybe to give back to the UNI in the form of a general scholarship fund so everyone benefits, not just a select few. That would be the best way to deal with this IMO and would be the most fair. Or, at the very least, get rid of the benefits of a scholarship, etc. if you pay the athletes and then let them use the money earned to pay for all that, as I said. I think your average athlete will quickly realize just how valuable that scholarship is in that situation.

The model should be the European soccer academy system.

What is that?

What is the incremental cost of a 30th chair being in a classroom vs 29? It costs the institution next to nothing for a few extra kids to be on campus, then when ROI is factored in, they make a killing.

Oh, yah. You won't get an argument from me on that, UNI in the states is grossly over priced, insane cost in fact. But regardless of the cost of the actual degree, the lifetime value is quite high. College grads earn way more than a HS grad over the course of a lifetime. Not sure the actual figure, read it in the past, but it is quite a bit of money. I don't think, even if just using the lower end of average, or even the lower end of the spectrum in general for earnings after getting a degree that it is even close for the majority of HS grads, a degree holder would still make more than a HS grad. A scholarship and its value over life shouldn't be undermined or under appreciated, I think it has been proven quite clearly to have a lot of worth.

 

[Guapo]

I don't think it is a "stupid" argument at all. Scholarships can be valued at upwards of 200,000 or more for the four years. Plus it is not just that, but the room and board, the food, the personal trainers, etc. as I already mentioned.

Ya, it is not cold hard cash, but that doesn't mean the value should be undermined. Plus, how many of these kids actually go pro? Most of them do not. For a number of them, maybe they would not even go to UNI if not for playing a major sport. So they are being given something, a scholarship which impacts their future earnings, basically has a positive net effect for the rest of their life that maybe they would not get had they not played sports.

Again, a better solution for the money being generated by sports is maybe to give back to the UNI in the form of a general scholarship fund so everyone benefits, not just a select few. That would be the best way to deal with this IMO and would be the most fair. Or, at the very least, get rid of the benefits of a scholarship, etc. if you pay the athletes and then let them use the money earned to pay for all that, as I said. I think your average athlete will quickly realize just how valuable that scholarship is in that situation.


What is that?

But why is Dabo Sweeny worth 9 million dollars while the star QB is worth 200k?

 

[Robertelamin]

If they were hired as employees it would interesting to see how many kids get fired at the end of their season or even halfway through the season.

 

[andy34]

If they were hired as employees it would interesting to see how many kids get fired at the end of their season or even halfway through the season.

This suggestion does not preclude the existence of contracts, which would provide players protection (more protection than they currently have now!)

 

[Robertelamin]

But why is Dabo Sweeny worth 9 million dollars while the star QB is worth 200k?

Rookie contract. His next one will be bigger.

 

[Guapo]

Rookie contract. His next one will be bigger.

What if he has a career ending injury next season? Clemson will have made millions off his labor, and an unknown amount in brand equity; yet he could end up without even a scholarship.

You don’t think there’s something wrong with that?

 

[Travelman6]

What if he has a career ending injury next season? Clemson will have made millions off his labor, and an unknown amount in brand equity; yet he could end up without even a scholarship.

You don’t think there’s something wrong with that?

IMO, under the current model a player should be allowed to complete a degree no matter what (well as long as they don't break a law or something) once they enroll at a school at any time. Go to the nba after two years at UNI and come back after 20 years in your 40s? The college should accept you right back IMO.

Injured? Well, why would that impact your enrollment? That way if you are injured you can still work towards your degree. But I think that is already how it is, no?

 

[gioff2323]

The kids already are paid. A four year scholarship isn't cheap, that right there is worth a lot. Plus they are given housing, food, access to personal trainers, a gym, free travel and lodging while away on longer trips, exposure on national tv, medical, tutors whenever they need and so much more. When you add all of that up over the course of four years that is a ton of value. Even for just a year. And they deserve money on top of that while the average student is up to their neck in debt? Come on. A number of students are given an opportunity, to get a four year degree that maybe they would not have had, had they not been skilled at basketball or football. Of course there are a lot of examples of student-athletes, like Emeka Okafor, who would get in on their own merits without a doubt. But still, it does create a lot of other opportunities for other students who would not be in school if it weren't for athletics..

The only way I could see paying athletes as fair is if they no longer got the above benefits and had to use that money to pay for all of the above, otherwise it really is not fair IMO. Personally I would stop watching if they were paid money on top of all of those benefits they already get. Plus it would create an uneven playing field where the best schools (best of the P5) would dominate even more.

I am conflicted on the whole pay to play subject for students. However, the problem with your logic is that they are NOT the AVERAGE student. They are the students that (a) bring millions in to the school by playing a sport and (b) are unable to benefit from that skill while in school. Every other student with a skill can take advantage of that skill while in school, including getting paid.

Is it fair to say to them that they can not earn a living until they go to a school for a semester (basketball) or 3 years after HS graduation (football)?

 

[superjohn]

You can't be serious. In many situations, the dirty agents and handlers take all or most of the money themselves. That's what you want to preserve?

You've stated this isn't at all complicated yet haven't explained how it all works.

 

[Purple Stein]

UConn has money problems as it is, if players start getting paid UConn probably moves further down the pecking order of college programs. Our football coach paid an assistant out of his pocket now we are going to pay an entire basketball and football team. We’d be cooked

Exactly this. As things are now, we can still at least be in the conversation with the big boys on the recruiting trail. In a truly free market we would be truly and completely boned.

 

[businesslawyer]

What do you pay them though? How is paying them gonna stop a kid from taking 300K?

It's not.

 

[Jbirdp5]

This suggestion does not preclude the existence of contracts, which would provide players protection (more protection than they currently have now!)

What if a kid leaves early and that violates his contract? Does he owe the money back?

 

[Guapo]

IMO, under the current model a player should be allowed to complete a degree no matter what (well as long as they don't break a law or something) once they enroll at a school at any time. Go to the nba after two years at UNI and come back after 20 years in your 40s? The college should accept you right back IMO.

Injured? Well, why would that impact your enrollment? That way if you are injured you can still work towards your degree. But I think that is already how it is, no?

Nope. Athletic scholarships are year to year. Kids have lost scholarships due to injury.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What if he has a career ending injury next season? Clemson will have made millions off his labor, and an unknown amount in brand equity; yet he could end up without even a scholarship.

You don’t think there’s something wrong with that?

Nope, because what's the alternative? Is Clemson making millions? It's the rare college football program that is even profitable. But pay even a few players and it loses money. Very few schools could pay anything. UConn certainly couldn't.

So sure, start up a minor league football league. Make it like AAA baseball or minor league hockey. See who watches it (nobody).

Clemson is providing him exposure, providing him coaching and facilities, providing him a free education and room and board. Look we can make this like European football if you want. But people watch Clemson because they live in the area or went to Clemson. The players are there only a couple of years. That's not what people come for. They support the school. They certainly have pride in great players. We love Kemba. But if Kemba went to Syracuse and somebody else came he we'd hate Kemba and love the somebody else. Because it's about the school.

 

[Guapo]

What if a kid leaves early and that violates his contract? Does he owe the money back?

There’s probably be a buyout clause? Did you really think this was a “gotcha question”??

 

[Guapo]

Nope, because what's the alternative? Is Clemson making millions? It's the rare college football program that is even profitable. But pay even a few players and it loses money. Very few schools could pay anything. UConn certainly couldn't.

So sure, start up a minor league football league. Make it like AAA baseball or minor league hockey. See who watches it (nobody).

Clemson is providing him exposure, providing him coaching and facilities, providing him a free education and room and board. Look we can make this like European football if you want. But people watch Clemson because they live in the area or went to Clemson. The players are there only a couple of years. That's not what people come for. They support the school. They certainly have pride in great players. We love Kemba. But if Kemba went to Syracuse and somebody else came he we'd hate Kemba and love the somebody else. Because it's about the school.

How are all these schools affording to pay coaches and ADs millions upon millions if they are actually losing globs of money in the process?

 

[Travelman6]

I am conflicted on the whole pay to play subject for students. However, the problem with your logic is that they are NOT the AVERAGE student. They are the students that (a) bring millions in to the school by playing a sport and (b) are unable to benefit from that skill while in school. Every other student with a skill can take advantage of that skill while in school, including getting paid.

Is it fair to say to them that they can not earn a living until they go to a school for a semester (basketball) or 3 years after HS graduation (football)?

But IMO it is not just the player bringing value to the school. But it can go the other way too. The school is also giving the player the opportunity. The school having such a marketable brand helps the player to get known too.

But why is Dabo Sweeny worth 9 million dollars

I don't know, doesn't seem fair when tuition is so high IMHO.

 

[Purple Stein]

If they were hired as employees it would interesting to see how many kids get fired at the end of their season or even halfway through the season.

Lol. In some bizarro world we fired all of our linebackers last October and RE gave a press conference about how he was going to have to raise his rate for linebackers to 15 cents more than minimum wage to attract better talent before the Tulsa game.

 

[Guapo]

I don't know, doesn't seem fair when tuition is so high IMHO.

That’s 9 million PER YEAR, btw.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Very curious how you think college athletic brands accrue value

Mostly through alumni and state or regional pride. That's 90% of it. Winning certainly helps. It helps drive the pride aspect. Lots of people in every state root for the state U because it represents the state in their mind. But the players? You cheer for and follow the guys who go to your school. You don't cheer for a school because of the guys who went there. Very rarely. Maybe a guy like Zion created a few young Duke fans.

My sister went to UConn and now lives in South Carolina. She's a Clemson football fan now, because that's the local team and lots of alumni and other Clemson fans live there. She's not a Clemson fan because of Trevor Lawrence. They sold out before him and they will sell out after him. And he'll go in the draft next year and probably be a top 10 pick.

 

[bmayuc]

You've stated this isn't at all complicated yet haven't explained how it all works.

This is very, very simple. I'll walk you through it.

Give the workers(players) freedom of movement and a union to negotiate labor terms. Colleges can, like all other employers, make offers based on their economic and strategic decisions. Let the kids make what they are worth in salary, benefits, and the endorsement circuit. Let them play and work where they want to. Take the NCAA rulebook and just through it right in a big bonfire because overnight that byzantine pile of crap is no longer needed.

But no! you say. Then college athletics would die!! Competition would fall!! All the best players would go to the highest pay!

Yes. Probably. But why is this bad? Let Duke offer a kid $5m if they think its worth it. Maybe it works out. Maybe he tears his ACL and Duke is on the hook for $20m for a player that sits on the pine. That's THE POINT OF A MARKET.

With regard to college sports writ large, if the market says it dies, it deserves to die. Do not prop up broken, corrupt, and exploitative systems just because you have a nostalgic remembrance of the glory days gone by and because you think UConn might not compete.

If it burns, then it shoudl burn. If it survives, it does so in a fair market situation and the kids get to make decisions freely. Either way, all parties now have complete freedom and transparency with which to operate. no more incentives for cloak and dagger BS.

How difficult is that?

 

[businesslawyer]

This is very, very simple. I'll walk you through it.

Give the workers(players) freedom of movement and a union to negotiate labor terms. Colleges can, like all other employers, make offers based on their economic and strategic decisions. Let the kids make what they are worth in salary, benefits, and the endorsement circuit. Let them play and work where they want to. Take the NCAA rulebook and just through it right in a big bonfire because overnight that byzantine pile of crap is no longer needed.

But no! you say. Then college athletics would die!! Competition would fall!! All the best players would go to the highest pay!

Yes. Probably. But why is this bad? Let Duke offer a kid $5m if they think its worth it. Maybe it works out. Maybe he tears his ACL and Duke is on the hook for $20m for a player that sits on the pine. That's THE POINT OF A MARKET.

With regard to college sports writ large, if the market says it dies, it deserves to die. Do not prop up broken, corrupt, and exploitative systems just because you have a nostalgic remembrance of the glory days gone by and because you think UConn might not compete.

If it burns, then it shoudl burn. If it survives, it does so in a fair market situation and the kids get to make decisions freely. Either way, all parties now have complete freedom and transparency with which to operate. no more incentives for cloak and dagger BS.

How difficult is that?

Of course, every pro league in the U.S. (and every soccer league worldwide) operates under the structure of some umbrella organization that limits spending in some ways. I'm not disagreeing with your point, but recognize that your argument changes pro sports as well if there are no limits to preserve competitive balance.

 

[Jbirdp5]

But why is Dabo Sweeny worth 9 million dollars while the star QB is worth 200k?

So in this model should he have gotten more out of high school or would he then be able to renegotiate his deal after his freshman year?

 

[HuskyHawk]

How are all these schools affording to pay coaches and ADs millions upon millions if they are actually losing globs of money in the process?

Because they are investing in a long term future and there are only a few of them. That coach is 10x more valuable than any player. Dabo brings in the players. He coaches them up. And he's there more than four years. On top of that, the pay one guy, maybe two more coordinators big salaries (except UConn). Are you doing that with 50+ football players?

Absolutely think the system needs to allow anybody to pursue their career at any time. Once you have that, College should simply say "this is what we are offering". You can choose that or choose something else. As I said, I'd even let them kick in a little living money.

 

[superjohn]

This is very, very simple. I'll walk you through it.

Give the workers(players) freedom of movement and a union to negotiate labor terms. Colleges can, like all other employers, make offers based on their economic and strategic decisions. Let the kids make what they are worth in salary, benefits, and the endorsement circuit. Let them play and work where they want to. Take the NCAA rulebook and just through it right in a big bonfire because overnight that byzantine pile of crap is no longer needed.

But no! you say. Then college athletics would die!! Competition would fall!! All the best players would go to the highest pay!

Yes. Probably. But why is this bad? Let Duke offer a kid $5m if they think its worth it. Maybe it works out. Maybe he tears his ACL and Duke is on the hook for $20m for a player that sits on the pine. That's THE POINT OF A MARKET.

With regard to college sports writ large, if the market says it dies, it deserves to die. Do not prop up broken, corrupt, and exploitative systems just because you have a nostalgic remembrance of the glory days gone by and because you think UConn might not compete.

If it burns, then it shoudl burn. If it survives, it does so in a fair market situation and the kids get to make decisions freely. Either way, all parties now have complete freedom and transparency with which to operate. no more incentives for cloak and dagger BS.

How difficult is that?

It's not difficult at all ending college sports. What you're proposing is the end of college sports.

 

[Jbirdp5]

There’s probably be a buyout clause? Did you really think this was a “gotcha question”??

I was literally asking you a question about the model you came up with. Do you feel the need to be a jerk when someone asks you something?