"The Grind Does Not Stop" Pheesa and Megan

[CocoHusky]

great..so you pick one of the few games he had something good to say about the bench ...if you can't even admit that he was down on the freshmen class from beginning to end of the season then you my friend are living in an alternative universe.......

Geno Auriemma on Megan Walker

 

[CPD016]

Thank you one and all. I have SO missed the jovial back and forth banter that this post has inspired. Without question the BY will be must reading at the start of next season. No reply necessary.

 

[Charliebball]

Geno Auriemma on Megan Walker

believe me, you're going to run out of positive quotes about the bench a hell of a lot quicker then I'll run out of negative ones...........

Everyone In, Except …
Freshman guards Megan Walker and Mikayla Coombs were the only players who did not enter the game.

“Yeah, I'm not even going to waste my time talking about them,” Auriemma said.
.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Meg picked a good person to hang out with and emulate. Milford, you just posted the "thought of the day"!!! There's an old saying: "Who you run with says who you are".

I believe that Chris Dailey was the one who thought of it, but in 2009-10, Tina Charles roomed with Maya Moore. Tina got to see Maya's discipline and work habits every moment of every day. This was after Tina had been the best player in the national championship game of the prior year, so Tina was clearly headed in the right direction. What did Tina learn from Maya? She learned how to be the AP Player of the Year, as she surpassed her younger teammate, the prior season's winner, in the voting.

Though UConn players have always played hard, I think Maya brought the effort and consistency to a new level. She passed the work ethic to Kelly Faris, who passed it to Moriah. Mo then passed it to Gabby. Megan got to see Gabby in person every day last year, so she knows what is possible. I think Meg is on the right track.

 

[Papa33]

msf 22b: So much to "like" about your look at Geno and his critics:

I think the "how many national championships argument" is a variation of the fallacy of (authority?) perhaps an expert can help me here.
like when old movie actor tells you to purchase a reverse mortgage.
That argument at the very least is a discussion ender and should be banned from the board...

That argument commits a couple fallacies: 1.) it is a non sequitur; 2.) an appeal to authority or prestige. That is, Geno's high rate of success does not confer infallibility on all issues of coaching.

Geno is a genius, has been the most remarkable of coaches with a record to prove it. but he is not infallible . . . .

True. While coaching may not be the most difficult task in the world to execute, it is full of minute-to-minute complexity. See next point.

At the very least, for initiates, it is very difficult to understand both the system and the effort required to perform in it. May very well go against everything they had been previously taught.

Trying to find just the right approach and manage mind games with 18-21 year-old athletes in stressful and demanding conditions is an impossible task. Geno makes it work far better than most coaches.

Both Notre Dame and Miss. State won, when a player or two who could one-on-one (like men's pro BB), manufacture their own shots; did just that.
Such individual style of play is not often found or (seemingly) encouraged here.
Sure, Dee, Maya were that sort. But it's not really the style of play that seems to be cherished... and for me is what I find so attractive about the team.

Even Maya had problems seeing outside her own box, developing her sense of the game to accommodate the complexities of a Geno offense. Remember his comic take on her ignorance about when and where to cut? And early on in her UConn career, the offense stalled when her teammates passively watched her go— successfully most of the time— one on one. Yes, it would help to have someone like her available for the "create your own shot" moments. Perhaps the Christyn Williams will bring that capability next year, but within the Geno team offensive scheme.

 

[CocoHusky]

believe me, you're going to run out of positive quotes about the bench a hell of a lot quicker then I'll run out of negative ones......

Everyone In, Except …
Freshman guards Megan Walker and Mikayla Coombs were the only players who did not enter the game.

“Yeah, I'm not even going to waste my time talking about them,” Auriemma said.
.

Geno Auriemma on Bench Players

 

[Mdoggie]

Caroline Ducharme is putting in off season work also. I'm gonna rank Uconn at #2 behind ND for MY Preseason rankings.

 

[Crossover]

In addition to being happy that Megan is following Pheesa's lead, I am thrilled that Pheesa is being a leader.

 

[Carnac]

Speaking of Kelly Faris, the Sparks waived her and Brooke McCarty today.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Yes we could. But it’s one thing to suggest, for instance, that Z would start over Crystal, as I once did, which is nothing more than harmless speculation. It’s quite another thing to speculate that MW was unhappy and might consider transferring, which a number of BY posters suggested at several points throughout the season.

The speculation surrounding MW’s state of mind was unnecessary and unfair to a young lady who is a tremendous competitor, and was always more likely to buckle down and work incredibly hard to become the player we all expected her to be when she came to Storrs.

there's speculation all over this forum... "between the ear" "lack confidence" etc. (even the player fall into believing it). Folks are entitled to voice the opinion even with the lack of FACTS (evidence)

 

[MilfordHusky]

Speaking of Kelly Faris, the Sparks waived her and Brooke McCarty today.

Minor correction:

Brooke was waived by L.A. Kelly was waived by N.Y. (unless Kelly was picked up by L.A. and immediately waived).

 

[oldude]

there's speculation all over this forum... "between the ear" "lack confidence" etc. (even the player fall into believing it). Folks are entitled to voice the opinion even with the lack of FACTS (evidence)

I suppose you are correct. But it's also the right, and perhaps the responsibility, of others to challenge idle and unfair speculation when it is directed at young ladies by posters that have absolutely no way of knowing what's actually going on.

 

[Charliebball]

I suppose you are correct. But it's also the right, and perhaps the responsibility, of others to challenge idle and unfair speculation when it is directed at young ladies by posters that have absolutely no way of knowing what's actually going on.

transfer speculation is prohibited but is there any doubt in your mind that MW would be unhappy about her lack of playing time? What competitive player wouldn't be? It would be insulting to assume otherwise...........controlling playing time is Geno's key motivator............let's see if MW got the message............

 

[msf22b]

Though UConn players have always played hard, I think Maya brought the effort and consistency to a new level. She passed the work ethic to Kelly Faris, who passed it to Moriah. Mo then passed it to Gabby. Megan got to see Gabby in person every day last year, so she knows what is possible. I think Meg is on the right track.

Milford's theory is interesting but does not withstand scrutiny in my view.
Kelly came in self-motivated; her parents being the main influence. ...Geno spoke about that often...Regardless of the propaganda; especially of Geno (too fast et al), Moriah actually became what she was in high school (watch video) apparently after she was permitted to play in that fashion...Gabby is also the kind of athlete; really quite cerebral, who always competes at a very high level and accepts coaching...very much required in her case as her skills were undeveloped.

I think a very strong point could be made about each athlete's internal motor and motivation. I don't see the direct line that Milford proposed.

 

[oldude]

transfer speculation is prohibited but is there any doubt in your mind that MW would be unhappy about her lack of playing time? What competitive player wouldn't be? It would be insulting to assume otherwise......controlling playing time is Geno's key motivator..let's see if MW got the message..

Obviously any competitive b-ball player would be disappointed about a lack of playing time. So yes I acknowledge that. What I don't acknowledge is that MW didn't understand the reasons why she wasn't playing and that might drive her out of the program, and that somehow Geno was being unfair by not playing her, and had not done everything possible to help her develop.

So now that I've acknowledged your point, here's one for you. After 33 years as the most successful coach in the history of WBB, arguably the most effective player development and motivational coach ever, do you believe that Geno's decisions not to play MW more were arbitrary and capricious, and not based on her performance in practice and games?

 

[Eggman]

To win a NC is great and should be celebrated.
But if you expect Geno to win every NC, your life must be very miserable.

You don't know me.

 

[Eggman]

To win a NC is great and should be celebrated.
But if you expect Geno to win every NC, your life must be very miserable.

Pretty talented roster last two years. Just sayin'.

 

[Charliebball]

Obviously any competitive b-ball player would be disappointed about a lack of playing time. So yes I acknowledge that. What I don't acknowledge is that MW didn't understand the reasons why she wasn't playing and that might drive her out of the program, and that somehow Geno was being unfair by not playing her, and had not done everything possible to help her develop.

So now that I've acknowledged your point, here's one for you. After 33 years as the most successful coach in the history of WBB, arguably the most effective player development and motivational coach ever, do you believe that Geno's decisions not to play MW more were arbitrary and capricious, and not based on her performance in practice and games?

of course he absolutely had his reasons but that doesn't mean I have to 100% agree with his methods .............if you go back to my posts during the season I was pleading for a middle ground..............don't reward her but don't bury her on the bench for three plus quarters either because you may need her at crunch time in one of these important games.........and the fact that she didn't get minutes in the majority of important games means that they both failed..........

 

[Kaizen]

You don't know me.

Why should I know you?

 

[Carnac]

Minor correction:

Brooke was waived by L.A. Kelly was waived by N.Y. (unless Kelly was picked up by L.A. and immediately waived).

You are correct sir. I posted this just before I shut it down for the evening, I was half asleep. One eye was closed, the other was fading fast, thanks.

 

[oldude]

of course he absolutely had his reasons but that doesn't mean I have to 100% agree with his methods ...if you go back to my posts during the season I was pleading for a middle ground....don't reward her but don't bury her on the bench for three plus quarters either because you may need her at crunch time in one of these important games....and the fact that she didn't get minutes in the majority of important games means that they both failed.....

I guess the biggest issue I have with your assessment is that you seem to feel compelled to assign blame and describe the fact that a talented freshman that didn’t develop quickly enough to suit everyone must be the result of either her failure and/or her coach.

This is simply the case of a freshman that wasn’t ready yet, something we’ve seen over and over again, and not just at UConn. There was only one freshman that made any type of meaningful contribution in the FF, Louisville’s Dana Evans. The rest of the teams with freshmen playing meaningful minutes didn’t make it to the FF.

Last season as freshmen, #1 Cox and #2 Crystal had similar up and down seasons. This year they both made tremendous sophomore leaps to become key contributors. Last season as a freshman, Jackie Young struggled at times. This season she went off for 32 in the National Semifinal.

Patience is a virtue, particularly when it comes to freshmen. Nobody’s at fault and nobody’s to blame. I suggest that you chill and join the rest of us in looking forward to an outstanding sophomore season for MW. I am absolutely expecting to hear reports coming out of early season workouts about how much better MW has gotten, just like the reports we heard about Crystal last year. Trust the process.

 

[msf22b]

So now that I've acknowledged your point, here's one for you. After 33 years as the most successful coach in the history of WBB, arguably the most effective player development and motivational coach ever, do you believe that Geno's decisions not to play MW more were arbitrary and capricious, and not based on her performance in practice and games?

Dude...

As per my post (above) of yesterday...

I am advocating for the argument (essentially: how can you disagree with Geno's record?) to be sidelined.

Why? because it is a discussion stopper and is likely fallacious from a logic point of view. Why either bother having a discussion board when this argument is used to shut down discussion.

Even the most successful investment funds always state: past performance is no guarantee of future...

I also am very much in Charlieball's camp...

With this variation: Megan's playing time(or lack thereof) was because of willfully not following the staff's instructions or not being smart enough to comprehend what was being emphasized...both I find difficult to believe.

I always go back to Moriah: there was an attempt (in some unknown manner) to
remake her game...and it was only when she was permitted to (regress) to her natural tendencies did she become the recognizable star that we recall so fondly.

Megan redux?

 

[Charliebball]

I guess the biggest issue I have with your assessment is that you seem to feel compelled to assign blame and describe the fact that a talented freshman that didn’t develop quickly enough to suit everyone must be the result of either her failure and/or her coach.

Patience is a virtue, particularly when it comes to freshmen. Nobody’s at fault and nobody’s to blame. I suggest that you chill and join the rest of us in looking forward to an outstanding sophomore season for MW. I am absolutely expecting to hear reports coming out of early season workouts about how much better MW has gotten, just like the reports we heard about Crystal last year. Trust the process.

When your head coach says you're not trying hard enough, not being aggressive enough and your not making the right decisions then of course somebody or something is to blame..............blame it on being a freshman if you like but there is a reason or multiple reasons for that happening.............you may remember I was one of Walker's biggest defenders last season amidst a sea of "over rated" critiques coming from some on this forum and I felt strongly that she could and should have played a bigger role in helping the team win................now I see some of those same folks who viewed her as a disappointment speaking of her future in such glowing terms..........it's just human nature I suppose..........I'm sure everybody is bored with this ongoing topic so let's move on to bigger and better things.........

 

[oldude]

Dude...

As per my post (above) of yesterday...

I am advocating for the argument (essentially: how can you disagree with Geno's record?) to be sidelined.

Why? because it is a discussion stopper and is likely fallacious from a logic point of view. Why either bother having a discussion board when this argument is used to shut down discussion.

Even the most successful investment funds always state: past performance is no guarantee of future...

I also am very much in Charlieball's camp...

With this variation: Megan's playing time(or lack thereof) was because of willfully not following the staff's instructions or not being smart enough to comprehend what was being emphasized...both I find difficult to believe.

I always go back to Moriah: there was an attempt (in some unknown manner) to
remake her game...and it was only when she was permitted to (regress) to her natural tendencies did she become the recognizable star that we recall so fondly.

Megan redux?

Yes, I read your original post, and I must confess that I find your logic somewhat tortured. To suggest that Geno and his coaching staff’s past success have no bearing in this discussion is intellectually dishonest imho.

Specifically, when Mo came to Storrs she was a mercurial player without a jump shot, who turned the ball over too often. At UConn, she learned to harness her speed while playing under control. With lots of work, Mo developed as a very effective shooter around her Jr year.

MW has all the talent in the world. She was a freshman who was not quite ready to contribute as much as everyone hoped she would. Under UConn’s staff, she too will develop into an outstanding player.

 

[oldude]

When your head coach says you're not trying hard enough, not being aggressive enough and your not making the right decisions then of course somebody or something is to blame....blame it on being a freshman if you like but there is a reason or multiple reasons for that happening...you may remember I was one of Walker's biggest defenders last season amidst a sea of "over rated" critiques coming from some on this forum and I felt strongly that she could and should have played a bigger role in helping the team win......now I see some of those same folks who viewed her as a disappointment speaking of her future in such glowing terms.....it's just human nature I suppose.....I'm sure everybody is bored with this ongoing topic so let's move on to bigger and better things....

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point.

 

[msf22b]

Yes, I read your original post, and I must confess that I find your logic somewhat tortured. To suggest that Geno and his coaching staff’s past success have no bearing in this discussion is intellectually dishonest imho.

Specifically, when Mo came to Storrs she was a mercurial player without a jump shot.

I went back to look at the HS tapes on youtube.
The jump shot is very much in evidence; see for yourself.

In her freshman year she had 49 turnovers, similar to the other guards Doty and Bria with 52 steals; right up there with the leaders of the team...

Interesting that that was the season Kiah Stokes was in the doghouse and played little; even with a short roster.

 

[oldude]

I went back to look at the HS tapes on youtube.
The jump shot is very much in evidence; see for yourself.

In her freshman year she had 49 turnovers, similar to the other guards Doty and Bria with 52 steals; right up there with the leaders of the team...

Interesting that that was the season Kiah Stokes was in the doghouse and played little; even with a short roster.

I'm always a little suspicious of HS "highlight" tapes that never show a player missing a shot. Show me full game tapes against top competition. I would also point out that in just about every HS game top HS players like MO are significantly better than everyone they play against. Lots of wide open shots with plenty of time to square up and shoot the ball. Much different against top teams in College. The 3-pt line is one foot further back and defenders are longer and quicker. During her freshman year MO shot 42% from the floor & 26% from the arc.

As for TO's, Mo only played 17 mpg as a freshman, similar to Doty, but far less than Hartley & Ferris who played most of the minutes at guard with Stewie, KML and Steph up front. Also worth noting that Doty, Hartley & Ferris all had better A/TO ratios than Mo during her freshman season.

 

[meyers7]

Pretty talented roster last two years. Just sayin'.

Hence a 72-2 record and 2 FF appearances.

 

[meyers7]

Dude...

As per my post (above) of yesterday...

I am advocating for the argument (essentially: how can you disagree with Geno's record?) to be sidelined.

Why? because it is a discussion stopper and is likely fallacious from a logic point of view. Why either bother having a discussion board when this argument is used to shut down discussion.

It is not used to shutdown "discussion". It is used to remind some posters, they are not half as smart as they think they are.

I also am very much in Charlieball's camp...

Well there is one of your problems.

With this variation: Megan's playing time(or lack thereof) was because of willfully not following the staff's instructions or not being smart enough to comprehend what was being emphasized...both I find difficult to believe.

Eh you are not looking at it right.

I always go back to Moriah: there was an attempt (in some unknown manner) to
remake her game...and it was only when she was permitted to (regress) to her natural tendencies did she become the recognizable star that we recall so fondly.

Yea, that's not at all what happened. She didn't regress. She actually worked her ass off that summer into the Soph season to improve on some things. When she/they finally got her at the correct speed, that's when everything clicked.

 

[Orangutan]

With this variation: Megan's playing time(or lack thereof) was because of willfully not following the staff's instructions or not being smart enough to comprehend what was being emphasized...both I find difficult to believe.

Speaking of logical fallacies, this is a false dichotomy. Neither of these things has to be true to explain the amount of playing time she received. There is a big difference between being "smart enough" to comprehend the coaches' instructions and being able to employ those instructions in a live game consistently enough to merit playing time when your competition for playing time includess 6 All-American caliber players.

There is a natural progression that all freshmen go through. The coaches felt that she wasn't far enough in that progression to merit playing time. There does not have to be someone to blame here. It does not have to be the case that either Walker isn't smart or won't listen or that coaches failed her in some way.

Why is it so hard to believe that Megan did her best and the coaches did their best for Megan and that the team just came up a little short?