The Four Guard + Whaley Offense | The Boneyard

The Four Guard + Whaley Offense

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I originally posted this in the Storrs South highlights thread, but figured it could use it's own thread from a conversation standpoint.

Just from watching these highlights, it's so clear how Whaley at center/a 4 guard lineup fits Hurley's offensive scheme so so so much better than when Josh is at center.

As you know, a lot of the offensive sets require the center to be able to set screens around the 3 point line or even receive the ball at the top of the perimeter. A point-forward if you will. Josh, god bless his heart, is just not equipped to do that in a perfect Hurley system due to his skillset and lack of athleticism. Whaley, however, can do that. He's comfortable with the ball in his hand. He's agile enough to set screens and cut to the rim. His positioning on offense is phenomenal, whether it be posting up, rolling from an on-ball screen, or slipping out on an off-ball screen.

The data backs this up. In a lineup with B. Adams as the "4" or the big guard/other forward, the offense is frankly quite unstoppable. The spacing with the 4 guards and Whaley allowed to roam pretty much anywhere inside the 3 point line gives the offense so many different looks.


1582816401642.png



155 points per 100 possessions! That's absurd. With Gilbert over Adams, you do lose a little offensively, but it's tremendously effective defensively, which makes sense given Gilbert > Adams an an on-ball defender.

Take a look at this out-of-bounds player here. That was awesome. Then, keep watching for the next play. Adams and Whaley both set screens around the perimeter, as Hurley likes his "bigs" to do. UCF thinks the double off-ball screen is to get Bouk open. Take a look at 3:06 -- look at the spacing! Vital is wide open in one corner, and Bouk is about to cut with the help of the 2 screens. HOWEVER, UCF is so occupied with the star players in Vital (in the corner) and Bouk (coming off the screens), Whaley slips to the basket and gets a high percentage shot. THAT is how you play perfect basketball.

The next halfcourt set that really shows off what Whaley can do is here. Whaley starts off the set setting a screen way out on the perimeter for the ball handler, then sets a mini screen for Bouk before he posts up vs UCF's man-zone type defense. Gilbert feeds him the ball, and since he's been wrecking UCF all game, all eyes on him and he kind of draws a double team. This leaves Adams wide open, and the Huskies convert ANOTHER high percentage shot like in my above examples. 3 high percentage shot examples, wide-open dunks. There is a reason why GOOD TEAMS DUNK, because it's almost impossible to block a dunk or it means someone was wide open.

Ok, last one, I promise. Here, look at the spacing. The four guards on the perimeter and Whaley commanding a double team of sorts again in the paint vs this UCF hybrid zone. The spacing of 1) having 4 guards and 2) having a competent big that requires the D's constant attention allows for Gilbert to slip through with a relatively easy floater without someone clogging the lane and causing him to do Gilbert-in-traffic escapades. As a result, another relatively high percentage shot.

That Adams/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup is shooting 80% at the rim, almost 58% from 2 (and even 42% from 3). You take that ALL DAY. I didn't share any 3P shooting examples from above, but again, the spacing of 4 shooters plus a competent big allows you to get open shots -- as you saw from some of those sets above, it creates opportunities for guys open in the corner or coming of screens. Teams simply cannot guard our shooters AND Whaley at the same time.

Besides the halfcourt offense implications, the 4 guard lineup + athletic center in Whaley allows us to play at a high pace in transition, a staple of Hurleyball and of course Calhounball. When we have the proper defenders in place next year (a healthy Akok, uber-athletic Andre Jackson and Javonte Brown Ferguson) you'll see the ability to turn defense into offense like you saw last night.

The ability to have Akok for his defense to negate our center's (Whaley) lack of rim protection would have been crticial -- in only 15 defensive possessions, the Akok/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup was only allowing 73.3 point per 100 poss -- an elite defensive unit (with a 116.7 P/100 on offense -- also very good). Maybe Jackson or Javonte Brown Ferguson can fill this role along Whaley. But you can see what Hurley is trying to build here. And I, for one, cannot wait for next year and beyond.

TL;DR: Whaley at center in a four-guard lineup is EXACTLY how Hurley wants to play on offense and it's showing.
 
I originally posted this in the Storrs South highlights thread, but figured it could use it's own thread from a conversation standpoint.

Just from watching these highlights, it's so clear how Whaley at center/a 4 guard lineup fits Hurley's offensive scheme so so so much better than when Josh is at center.

As you know, a lot of the offensive sets require the center to be able to set screens around the 3 point line or even receive the ball at the top of the perimeter. A point-forward if you will. Josh, god bless his heart, is just not equipped to do that in a perfect Hurley system due to his skillset and lack of athleticism. Whaley, however, can do that. He's comfortable with the ball in his hand. He's agile enough to set screens and cut to the rim. His positioning on offense is phenomenal, whether it be posting up, rolling from an on-ball screen, or slipping out on an off-ball screen.

The data backs this up. In a lineup with B. Adams as the "4" or the big guard/other forward, the offense is frankly quite unstoppable. The spacing with the 4 guards and Whaley allowed to roam pretty much anywhere inside the 3 point line gives the offense so many different looks.


1582816401642.png



155 points per 100 possessions! That's absurd. With Gilbert over Adams, you do lose a little offensively, but it's tremendously effective defensively, which makes sense given Gilbert > Adams an an on-ball defender.

Take a look at this out-of-bounds player here. That was awesome. Then, keep watching for the next play. Adams and Whaley both set screens around the perimeter, as Hurley likes his "bigs" to do. UCF thinks the double off-ball screen is to get Bouk open. Take a look at 3:06 -- look at the spacing! Vital is wide open in one corner, and Bouk is about to cut with the help of the 2 screens. HOWEVER, UCF is so occupied with the star players in Vital (in the corner) and Bouk (coming off the screens), Whaley slips to the basket and gets a high percentage shot. THAT is how you play perfect basketball.

The next halfcourt set that really shows off what Whaley can do is here. Whaley starts off the set setting a screen way out on the perimeter for the ball handler, then sets a mini screen for Bouk before he posts up vs UCF's man-zone type defense. Gilbert feeds him the ball, and since he's been wrecking UCF all game, all eyes on him and he kind of draws a double team. This leaves Adams wide open, and the Huskies convert ANOTHER high percentage shot like in my above examples. 3 high percentage shot examples, wide-open dunks. There is a reason why GOOD TEAMS DUNK, because it's almost impossible to block a dunk or it means someone was wide open.

Ok, last one, I promise. Here, look at the spacing. The four guards on the perimeter and Whaley commanding a double team of sorts again in the paint vs this UCF hybrid zone. The spacing of 1) having 4 guards and 2) having a competent big that requires the D's constant attention allows for Gilbert to slip through with a relatively easy floater without someone clogging the lane and causing him to do Gilbert-in-traffic escapades. As a result, another relatively high percentage shot.

That Adams/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup is shooting 80% at the rim, almost 58% from 2 (and even 42% from 3). You take that ALL DAY. I didn't share any 3P shooting examples from above, but again, the spacing of 4 shooters plus a competent big allows you to get open shots -- as you saw from some of those sets above, it creates opportunities for guys open in the corner or coming of screens. Teams simply cannot guard our shooters AND Whaley at the same time.

Besides the halfcourt offense implications, the 4 guard lineup + athletic center in Whaley allows us to play at a high pace in transition, a staple of Hurleyball and of course Calhounball. When we have the proper defenders in place next year (a healthy Akok, uber-athletic Andre Jackson and Javonte Brown Ferguson) you'll see the ability to turn defense into offense like you saw last night.

The ability to have Akok for his defense to negate our center's (Whaley) lack of rim protection would have been crticial -- in only 15 defensive possessions, the Akok/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup was only allowing 73.3 point per 100 poss -- an elite defensive unit (with a 116.7 P/100 on offense -- also very good). Maybe Jackson or Javonte Brown Ferguson can fill this role along Whaley. But you can see what Hurley is trying to build here. And I, for one, cannot wait for next year and beyond.

TL;DR: Whaley at center in a four-guard lineup is EXACTLY how Hurley wants to play on offense and it's showing.

Great stuff. We don't get content on here like this often.

Can you post those same lineups with Carlton instead? Curious if the effect defensively meets the eye test
 
This is an amazing write up. Nice to see the data back up what our eyes have been showing us the past couple games.
 
.-.
I originally posted this in the Storrs South highlights thread, but figured it could use it's own thread from a conversation standpoint.

Just from watching these highlights, it's so clear how Whaley at center/a 4 guard lineup fits Hurley's offensive scheme so so so much better than when Josh is at center.

As you know, a lot of the offensive sets require the center to be able to set screens around the 3 point line or even receive the ball at the top of the perimeter. A point-forward if you will. Josh, god bless his heart, is just not equipped to do that in a perfect Hurley system due to his skillset and lack of athleticism. Whaley, however, can do that. He's comfortable with the ball in his hand. He's agile enough to set screens and cut to the rim. His positioning on offense is phenomenal, whether it be posting up, rolling from an on-ball screen, or slipping out on an off-ball screen.

The data backs this up. In a lineup with B. Adams as the "4" or the big guard/other forward, the offense is frankly quite unstoppable. The spacing with the 4 guards and Whaley allowed to roam pretty much anywhere inside the 3 point line gives the offense so many different looks.


1582816401642.png



155 points per 100 possessions! That's absurd. With Gilbert over Adams, you do lose a little offensively, but it's tremendously effective defensively, which makes sense given Gilbert > Adams an an on-ball defender.

Take a look at this out-of-bounds player here. That was awesome. Then, keep watching for the next play. Adams and Whaley both set screens around the perimeter, as Hurley likes his "bigs" to do. UCF thinks the double off-ball screen is to get Bouk open. Take a look at 3:06 -- look at the spacing! Vital is wide open in one corner, and Bouk is about to cut with the help of the 2 screens. HOWEVER, UCF is so occupied with the star players in Vital (in the corner) and Bouk (coming off the screens), Whaley slips to the basket and gets a high percentage shot. THAT is how you play perfect basketball.

The next halfcourt set that really shows off what Whaley can do is here. Whaley starts off the set setting a screen way out on the perimeter for the ball handler, then sets a mini screen for Bouk before he posts up vs UCF's man-zone type defense. Gilbert feeds him the ball, and since he's been wrecking UCF all game, all eyes on him and he kind of draws a double team. This leaves Adams wide open, and the Huskies convert ANOTHER high percentage shot like in my above examples. 3 high percentage shot examples, wide-open dunks. There is a reason why GOOD TEAMS DUNK, because it's almost impossible to block a dunk or it means someone was wide open.

Ok, last one, I promise. Here, look at the spacing. The four guards on the perimeter and Whaley commanding a double team of sorts again in the paint vs this UCF hybrid zone. The spacing of 1) having 4 guards and 2) having a competent big that requires the D's constant attention allows for Gilbert to slip through with a relatively easy floater without someone clogging the lane and causing him to do Gilbert-in-traffic escapades. As a result, another relatively high percentage shot.

That Adams/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup is shooting 80% at the rim, almost 58% from 2 (and even 42% from 3). You take that ALL DAY. I didn't share any 3P shooting examples from above, but again, the spacing of 4 shooters plus a competent big allows you to get open shots -- as you saw from some of those sets above, it creates opportunities for guys open in the corner or coming of screens. Teams simply cannot guard our shooters AND Whaley at the same time.

Besides the halfcourt offense implications, the 4 guard lineup + athletic center in Whaley allows us to play at a high pace in transition, a staple of Hurleyball and of course Calhounball. When we have the proper defenders in place next year (a healthy Akok, uber-athletic Andre Jackson and Javonte Brown Ferguson) you'll see the ability to turn defense into offense like you saw last night.

The ability to have Akok for his defense to negate our center's (Whaley) lack of rim protection would have been crticial -- in only 15 defensive possessions, the Akok/Vital/Whaley/Bouk/Gaffney lineup was only allowing 73.3 point per 100 poss -- an elite defensive unit (with a 116.7 P/100 on offense -- also very good). Maybe Jackson or Javonte Brown Ferguson can fill this role along Whaley. But you can see what Hurley is trying to build here. And I, for one, cannot wait for next year and beyond.

TL;DR: Whaley at center in a four-guard lineup is EXACTLY how Hurley wants to play on offense and it's showing.

Great stuff. One comment on subbing Gilbert for Adams. While Gilbert is a better on ball defender than Adams, Adams is better than Bouk or Gaff. My suspicion as to the difference it makes on our defensive metrics is that Gaff can shift to guard the small forward position, who is usually less quick. Gaffney gets abused guarding smaller, quick PGs.
 
forget stats for a sec, (and we thank you for finding the stats of course). you just see how better the team performs because of whaley's help defense and his ability to recover after. whaley has something around the rim that's very valuable and that's being able to go up and finish quickly, and putback some misses. he's far more mobile and athletic and it's what allows having 4 guards on the floor despite being 6'8 and undersized for a center. lets go whaley!!
 
well done. You dont normally get this level of in-depth analysis on the board or even from our bloggers.
 
Awesome write up!

Further proves we shouldn't go into next season with just 4 guards on the roster.
 
This is about Whaley's work rate and doing his job. Against bad teams like UCF you get eye popping stats like last night. Against better and bigger teams, you need another big just to defend your own backboard.

Remember the guards on this team rebound, esp CV who is leaving.

This is the train we are riding for the rest of the year but let's not assume the doughnut lineup is a recipe for championship runs.
 
.-.
Awesome write up!

Further proves we shouldn't go into next season with just 4 guards on the roster.
Don't think we will. Another guard (possibly Gilbert stays) and most likely a stretch 4 grad transfer unless something happens with Sanogo which may be unlikely.
 
Anybody else think that like a month and half ago Whaley and Jayson Tatum had a sleepover and just decided to be unstoppable forces of nature? Or am I the only one that thinks that's what happened?
 
The data backs this up. In a lineup with B. Adams as the "4" or the big guard/other forward, the offense is frankly quite unstoppable. The spacing with the 4 guards and Whaley allowed to roam pretty much anywhere inside the 3 point line gives the offense so many different looks.


1582816401642.png

This data is from...? I would like to exchange money for viewing it on a regular basis. I didn't think Synergy did it.
 
Great stuff. We don't get content on here like this often.

Can you post those same lineups with Carlton instead? Curious if the effect defensively meets the eye test
What website lets you look at lineup combos like this
This data is from...? I would like to exchange money for viewing it on a regular basis. I didn't think Synergy did it.

The website is: https://hoop-explorer.com/LineupAnalyzer?filter=&maxTableSize=50&minPoss=5&sortBy=desc:off_poss&

These are the top ones with Josh (and without Akok/Polley)

1582836645556.png
 
This how Hurley wants to play. This is why he said he wants to add a “Big guard who can shoot” for next year rather than a power forward. A player like Andre Jackson is going to be at the 4 in a system like ours.
 
.-.
great post! can't wait to see what hurley can do with andre jackson next year -- he'll give them additional size and athleticism (as well as, hopefully, ball-handling and passing) in these lineups.
 
Having CV's rebound ability allows that line up but without him I think we could get thrashed on the boards. I like the 4 guards if you have 2 of them at 6-4/6-5 but a couple smalls hurts. But it was fun to watch they were scrappy as hell and got to the loose balls more.
 
Whaley isn't a poor shot blocker. I agree with everything else.
 
Anybody else think that like a month and half ago Whaley and Jayson Tatum had a sleepover and just decided to be unstoppable forces of nature? Or am I the only one that thinks that's what happened?
I hadn't thought of that, but now that you have said it, it makes perfect sense!
 
Either the big has to be a monster on the boards in a 4 guard lineup, or one of the guards has to be a glass eater. UCONN has that in CV. And that will be missed next year.
We'll have a 3 guard lineup next season but he can go 4 guard sometimes. Bouknight wil be a really good rebounding guard as will Jackson.
 
.-.
We score fairly well with some of the 4 guard lineups (I think that is somewhat a function of the competition they have played recently), but we give up a lot on defense.

I want to spend some time with this, but I think that Whaley and Carlton together gives us our best combination of offense AND defense.
 
Anybody else think that like a month and half ago Whaley and Jayson Tatum had a sleepover and just decided to be unstoppable forces of nature? Or am I the only one that thinks that's what happened?

Why didn't Whaley sleepover with Sid Wilson? Is he not a team player?
 
We score fairly well with some of the 4 guard lineups (I think that is somewhat a function of the competition they have played recently), but we give up a lot on defense.

I want to spend some time with this, but I think that Whaley and Carlton together gives us our best combination of offense AND defense.
Not true. It clogs the lane and doesn’t allow them to spread the floor. Advanced statistics show this just isn’t true.
 
.-.

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