The days of the ACC being an elite BB conference are over. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

The days of the ACC being an elite BB conference are over.

Hoophound said:
This goes back to revenue. You can’t run a basketball championship mill like we do on $4,000,000 a year. We need football money or we will soon be non-competitive in paying coaches and building facilities. We are pretty much maxed out. As much as some people want to ignore this, it’s real. One day, you’ll wake up to hear KU or UK is paying their basketball coach 12 mill per year and our goose will be cooked.
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Unless alumni step up and fill the revenue void
 
ACC schools, top 50 KenPom finishes in the last 5 seasons:
Duke - 5
Virginia - 4
UNC - 4
Fla St - 3
Miami - 2
Clemson - 2
Syracuse - 2
Va Tech - 2
Louisville - 2
NC State - 1
Wake - 1
Ga Tech - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Pitt - 0
BC - 0
--
Stanford - 1
Cal - 0
SMU - 0

Crazy stat I stumbled into. BC hasn't finished in the top 60 of KenPom in 16 years.
 
auror said:
ACC schools, top 50 KenPom finishes in the last 5 seasons:
Duke - 5
Virginia - 4
UNC - 4
Fla St - 3
Miami - 2
Clemson - 2
Syracuse - 2
Va Tech - 2
Louisville - 2
NC State - 1
Wake - 1
Ga Tech - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Pitt - 0
BC - 0
--
Stanford - 1
Cal - 0
SMU - 0

Crazy stat I stumbled into. BC hasn't finished in the top 60 of KenPom in 16 years.
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Feeble
 
HooperScooper said:
Funny that Apple News picked up that Norlander article from CBSSports.com.

the-boneyard.com

ACC votes to add Stanford, Cal, SMU: Conference presidents approve expansion to 18 schools

Had a chance to laugh at them for their choosing SMU over UConn last night. But instead the football team decided to look like an A10 program against a very beatable Wolfpack squad. That wolfpack squad is expected to be the 4th best team in the ACC.
the-boneyard.com the-boneyard.com
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Why does Norlander hate UConn? That has to be the stupidest comment I’ve heard regarding the game.
 
uconnfan68 said:
Why does Norlander hate UConn? That has to be the stupidest comment I’ve heard regarding the game.
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Which comment? Are you talking about this comment below? Not sure why that showed up in there. I should have done something to take it out but that's what showed up when I put in the link to the post.

Had a chance to laugh at them for their choosing SMU over UConn last night. But instead the football team decided to look like an A10 program against a very beatable Wolfpack squad.

That's not from Norlander. That's from @mauconnfan in that thread. Don't think Norlander mentioned UConn at all in the article.
 
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NH Husky said:
This whole realignment game has gone stale.

Three scenarios I’d be interested in:
Most likely: UCONN keeps all sports in BE and joins a football only conference with the likes of Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, UMass, WSU, OSU, plus 2 to 4 more. Ride this until the whole thing blows up.
Much much less likely: BE merges with B1G to form a mega conference.
Extremely unlikely: SEC makes a northern push and grabs some northeast schools. Just like Rutgers going to B1G didn’t dilute their football image, the SEC could absorb some weaker football schools.
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SEC brings in UCONN. UCONN agrees to play 40% of their home games in Boston, Jersey, or Philly
 
auror said:
ACC schools, top 50 KenPom finishes in the last 5 seasons:
Duke - 5
Virginia - 4
UNC - 4
Fla St - 3
Miami - 2
Clemson - 2
Syracuse - 2
Va Tech - 2
Louisville - 2
NC State - 1
Wake - 1
Ga Tech - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Pitt - 0
BC - 0
--
Stanford - 1
Cal - 0
SMU - 0

Crazy stat I stumbled into. BC hasn't finished in the top 60 of KenPom in 16 years.
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Imagine showing this to the ACC athletic directors 7/8 years ago, they wouldnt believe it, Notre dame, pitt louisville syracuse alll declining at the same time is interesting... I wonder if it has to do with anything specific that happened about 7/8 years ago
 
Bobol said:
I prefer UConn in the Big East than the ACC.
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I prefer Uconn right where we are over anywhere else. DO NOT make decisions based on money - it never works out. I live my life by this. If a new job offers $50,000 more per year BUT I have to work way more and/or sacrifice more time and happiness, I will never take it. Money is just an idea...a thought. My life and my happiness are real. Unfortunately, I don't think many others think like this, and we will eventually end up in another conference. It's sad.
 
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I too want to stay in the BE. We have some very good rivalries and will continue to build more ie Creighton,Xavier. I am ok with the Football team staying independent. Hopefully they continue to improve year over year. We will never be a football powerhouse and that’s OK. I want us to remain an elite basketball school. The BE can help us achieve this.
 
HooperScooper said:
Which comment? Are you talking about this comment below? Not sure why that showed up in there. I should have done something to take it out but that's what showed up when I put in the link to the post.

Had a chance to laugh at them for their choosing SMU over UConn last night. But instead the football team decided to look like an A10 program against a very beatable Wolfpack squad.

That's not from Norlander. That's from @mauconnfan in that thread. Don't think Norlander mentioned UConn at all in the article.
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Not mau!
 
superjohn said:
Coach K was making 10 million per year over a decade ago, over three times what Calhoun was making. K made nearly 14 million in his final season. UConn never had a problem competing against them.
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That was one coach. Wait until it’s 20 of them. It just isn’t a risk we want to take.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
With traditional basketball schools like Cuse , Louisville , Duke , UNC, VA , even FSU , Miami , NCS , GT , Wake , Clemson
Pitt have had moments I think writing their obituary may be a bit premature.
BC is a hopeless case
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Ummm. Half these schools are not "traditional basketball schools." Sure, Cuse, Louisville, UNC are. Virginia has a title now. NC State used to be great, so sure, I guess, almost in the same way that Oklahoma State is a traditional power.

But the rest of those schools have essentially no history.
  • Clemson has 1 Elite 8 ever. In 1980. And they have only ever won the ACCT once.
  • Wake has a Final Four in the 1960s but hasn't been in the second weekend since 1996. Before then, 1984.
  • Georgia Tech has 2 Final Fours ever. They haven't been out of the first weekend since 2004 and if not for a miracle run in the ACCT would have missed the NCAAs for well over a decade.
  • Miami has 2 E8s and 1 FF ever. Those two E8s were the last two years.
  • Florida State has 1 Final Four in 1972 and has done essentially nothing from then until Hamilton showed up. A few S16 and a 2018 E8 is not a "traditional basketball school" and certainly not one that can buoy a weak conference.
 
It's a super top heavy conference and the top is solid. But with recent additions, it's obvious their focus is not on basketball. I don't know much about realignment but I'm sure that will catch up to them soon. Last year was not a good look for them

I think Miami has turned the corner and will remain a really good team. But with FSU likely leaving, will they even stay in the ACC? I won't give the new Cuse coach the benefit of the doubt, but anything should be an improvement and a start in turning that program around

They have a lot of teams that will be horrible in perpetuity (BC, Wake, GT, Louisville, probably Cuse). The 3 new additions will also be in that list. They need Duke, UNC, and UVA to be permanently great to keep relevance

Again I don't know much about realignment, but a member publicly saying they're going to leave tells me that the conference will blow up soon. If they center their rebuild around football instead of basketball, they'll kill the conference
 
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I totally disagree that they'll be horrible by adding these schools. I'm sure SMU will be attractive to recruits. I only have problems with
auror said:
ACC schools, top 50 KenPom finishes in the last 5 seasons:
Duke - 5
Virginia - 4
UNC - 4
Fla St - 3
Miami - 2
Clemson - 2
Syracuse - 2
Va Tech - 2
Louisville - 2
NC State - 1
Wake - 1
Ga Tech - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Pitt - 0
BC - 0
--
Stanford - 1
Cal - 0
SMU - 0

Crazy stat I stumbled into. BC hasn't finished in the top 60 of KenPom in 16 years.
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I feel the travel just isn't attractive to recruits and their parents. Games aren't really fair driving distance. Flying can be very expensive
 
My main question is why Cal hired Mark Madsen and Stanford didn't?
 
REB1094 said:
It's a super top heavy conference and the top is solid. But with recent additions, it's obvious their focus is not on basketball. I don't know much about realignment but I'm sure that will catch up to them soon. Last year was not a good look for them

I think Miami has turned the corner and will remain a really good team. But with FSU likely leaving, will they even stay in the ACC? I won't give the new Cuse coach the benefit of the doubt, but anything should be an improvement and a start in turning that program around

They have a lot of teams that will be horrible in perpetuity (BC, Wake, GT, Louisville, probably Cuse). The 3 new additions will also be in that list. They need Duke, UNC, and UVA to be permanently great to keep relevance

Again I don't know much about realignment, but a member publicly saying they're going to leave tells me that the conference will blow up soon. If they center their rebuild around football instead of basketball, they'll kill the conference
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"They have a lot of teams that will be horrible in perpetuity (BC, Wake, GT, Louisville, probably Cuse)."

This is rather presumptuous and pompous. Wake, Louisville, and Syracuse are certainly respectable (aside from Louisville last year) with reasonable ceilings. BC? Okay.

Not everyone can win championships every 5 years like UConn. ☺️
 
tzznandrew said:
Ummm. Half these schools are not "traditional basketball schools." Sure, Cuse, Louisville, UNC are. Virginia has a title now. NC State used to be great, so sure, I guess, almost in the same way that Oklahoma State is a traditional power.

But the rest of those schools have essentially no history.
  • Clemson has 1 Elite 8 ever. In 1980. And they have only ever won the ACCT once.
  • Wake has a Final Four in the 1960s but hasn't been in the second weekend since 1996. Before then, 1984.
  • Georgia Tech has 2 Final Fours ever. They haven't been out of the first weekend since 2004 and if not for a miracle run in the ACCT would have missed the NCAAs for well over a decade.
  • Miami has 2 E8s and 1 FF ever. Those two E8s were the last two years.
  • Florida State has 1 Final Four in 1972 and has done essentially nothing from then until Hamilton showed up. A few S16 and a 2018 E8 is not a "traditional basketball school" and certainly not one that can buoy a weak conference.
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The history is irrelevant. Miami is strong now. Pitt recovered nicely. The ACC is weaker top to bottom with the additions but may still be better than the B1G and possibly the SEC. NC State is still solid. Now if Syracuse and Louisville never bounce back, then they’ve got problems. But it looks like a strong conference this year after a bad year last year. Predicting its demise is silly. That said, UConn instead of SMU solves all of that, which is why they are a bunch of idiots.
 
YearoftheHusky said:
I mean. I know we are jealous, but they didn’t lose the programs that make them elite.
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That depends on the age-old question of whether a conference's quality is defined by the top or by its depth.

Yes, the ACC still has Duke and UNC, but their depth is legitimately atrocious. More than half of the teams won't even sniff the Tournament in an average year. Who's excited about a Pitt-SMU matchup in January?
 
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To protect their basketball brands, the ACC will probably have their top basketball brands play each other more frequently to insure fan interest and enhance their resumes for the tournament.
 
Hoophound said:
That was one coach. Wait until it’s 20 of them. It just isn’t a risk we want to take.
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He finds an example when you used 2 schools and then you move the goalpost and make it 20….
 
Jbirdp5 said:
He finds an example when you used 2 schools and then you move the goalpost and make it 20….
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You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.
 
Hoophound said:
You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.
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And Tennessee, and USC, and Baylor it’s slowly shifting in favor of the big football schools.
 
Hoophound said:
You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.
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A few things:

1) You think there is a bottomless pit of money at the football schools? Do you think we on the boneyard are the only ones that realize that every conference is on its last big linear contract? Have you read any interviews of P4 athletic directors? Also, do you think we are the only ones that have considered that ESPN may have a hard time meeting their contractual obligations on the back end of some of these huge linear deals. Every school is looking at the back end of those deals and looking for ways to mitigate risk, which will include managing their overhead.

2) The Demographic Cliff is here, and while WVU is the first major casualty, it will not be the last of the big time athletic schools that are mediocre or worse academically that wake up one morning and find out no one wants to go there. Alabama is known for being very generous with scholarship money to out-of-state applicants. How long can they keep that game going without pulling money in from somewhere, including the athletic department? Every million dollars they pay a coach is 20 scholarships they can't offer to boost their average GPA and test scores.

3) There will be a lot of money in streaming, but it won't be as focused on football. Basketball generates a lot of content that fans care about, and in streaming, the focus is not on coming up with the big matchup for the 3:30 Saturday time slot like it was in the cable bundle era. It is about generating a lot of content that will hopefully get a fragmented target customer base to sign up.

4) It amazes me how people who are not idiots continue to believe the self-serving ESPN PR about how all the talent and all the money and all the power in college athletics will consolidate in a handful of programs, that (not) surprisingly happen to be under contract with ESPN or Fox. NIL and the Transfer Portal are having the exactly opposite impact, and are in fact spreading the talent around. The players are smart enough to realize they won't get paid much if they don't play.

That last one cuts both ways, since Fox does promote UConn hoops pretty well.
 
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