The days of the ACC being an elite BB conference are over.

[CL82]

SEC brings in UCONN. UCONN agrees to play 40% of their home games in Boston, Jersey, or Philly

Fine.

 

[Tiamat7]

It's a super top heavy conference and the top is solid. But with recent additions, it's obvious their focus is not on basketball. I don't know much about realignment but I'm sure that will catch up to them soon. Last year was not a good look for them

I think Miami has turned the corner and will remain a really good team. But with FSU likely leaving, will they even stay in the ACC? I won't give the new Cuse coach the benefit of the doubt, but anything should be an improvement and a start in turning that program around

They have a lot of teams that will be horrible in perpetuity (BC, Wake, GT, Louisville, probably Cuse). The 3 new additions will also be in that list. They need Duke, UNC, and UVA to be permanently great to keep relevance

Again I don't know much about realignment, but a member publicly saying they're going to leave tells me that the conference will blow up soon. If they center their rebuild around football instead of basketball, they'll kill the conference

"They have a lot of teams that will be horrible in perpetuity (BC, Wake, GT, Louisville, probably Cuse)."

This is rather presumptuous and pompous. Wake, Louisville, and Syracuse are certainly respectable (aside from Louisville last year) with reasonable ceilings. BC? Okay.

Not everyone can win championships every 5 years like UConn. ☺️

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ummm. Half these schools are not "traditional basketball schools." Sure, Cuse, Louisville, UNC are. Virginia has a title now. NC State used to be great, so sure, I guess, almost in the same way that Oklahoma State is a traditional power.

But the rest of those schools have essentially no history.

• Clemson has 1 Elite 8 ever. In 1980. And they have only ever won the ACCT once.
• Wake has a Final Four in the 1960s but hasn't been in the second weekend since 1996. Before then, 1984.
• Georgia Tech has 2 Final Fours ever. They haven't been out of the first weekend since 2004 and if not for a miracle run in the ACCT would have missed the NCAAs for well over a decade.
• Miami has 2 E8s and 1 FF ever. Those two E8s were the last two years.
• Florida State has 1 Final Four in 1972 and has done essentially nothing from then until Hamilton showed up. A few S16 and a 2018 E8 is not a "traditional basketball school" and certainly not one that can buoy a weak conference.

The history is irrelevant. Miami is strong now. Pitt recovered nicely. The ACC is weaker top to bottom with the additions but may still be better than the B1G and possibly the SEC. NC State is still solid. Now if Syracuse and Louisville never bounce back, then they’ve got problems. But it looks like a strong conference this year after a bad year last year. Predicting its demise is silly. That said, UConn instead of SMU solves all of that, which is why they are a bunch of idiots.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I mean. I know we are jealous, but they didn’t lose the programs that make them elite.

That depends on the age-old question of whether a conference's quality is defined by the top or by its depth.

Yes, the ACC still has Duke and UNC, but their depth is legitimately atrocious. More than half of the teams won't even sniff the Tournament in an average year. Who's excited about a Pitt-SMU matchup in January?

 

[HooperScooper]

Who's excited about a Pitt-SMU matchup in January?

Pitt and SMU fans and that's about it.

 

[UConnJim]

To protect their basketball brands, the ACC will probably have their top basketball brands play each other more frequently to insure fan interest and enhance their resumes for the tournament.

 

[Jbirdp5]

That was one coach. Wait until it’s 20 of them. It just isn’t a risk we want to take.

He finds an example when you used 2 schools and then you move the goalpost and make it 20….

 

[Hoophound]

He finds an example when you used 2 schools and then you move the goalpost and make it 20….

You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.

And Tennessee, and USC, and Baylor it’s slowly shifting in favor of the big football schools.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.

A few things:

1) You think there is a bottomless pit of money at the football schools? Do you think we on the boneyard are the only ones that realize that every conference is on its last big linear contract? Have you read any interviews of P4 athletic directors? Also, do you think we are the only ones that have considered that ESPN may have a hard time meeting their contractual obligations on the back end of some of these huge linear deals. Every school is looking at the back end of those deals and looking for ways to mitigate risk, which will include managing their overhead.

2) The Demographic Cliff is here, and while WVU is the first major casualty, it will not be the last of the big time athletic schools that are mediocre or worse academically that wake up one morning and find out no one wants to go there. Alabama is known for being very generous with scholarship money to out-of-state applicants. How long can they keep that game going without pulling money in from somewhere, including the athletic department? Every million dollars they pay a coach is 20 scholarships they can't offer to boost their average GPA and test scores.

3) There will be a lot of money in streaming, but it won't be as focused on football. Basketball generates a lot of content that fans care about, and in streaming, the focus is not on coming up with the big matchup for the 3:30 Saturday time slot like it was in the cable bundle era. It is about generating a lot of content that will hopefully get a fragmented target customer base to sign up.

4) It amazes me how people who are not idiots continue to believe the self-serving ESPN PR about how all the talent and all the money and all the power in college athletics will consolidate in a handful of programs, that (not) surprisingly happen to be under contract with ESPN or Fox. NIL and the Transfer Portal are having the exactly opposite impact, and are in fact spreading the talent around. The players are smart enough to realize they won't get paid much if they don't play.

That last one cuts both ways, since Fox does promote UConn hoops pretty well.

 

[superjohn]

You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.

Yep, if only Hurley could compete with Nate Oats and UConn men's basketball could compete with Alabama men's basketball. I'm tired of being owned by them.

UConn Rewards Head Coach Dan Hurley With Massive New Contract, per Report - AthlonSports.com | Expert Predictions, Picks, and Previews

https://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/uconn-dan-hurley-new-contract-national-championship

 

[Inyatkin]

But the rest of those schools have essentially no history.

• Wake has a Final Four in the 1960s but hasn't been in the second weekend since 1996. Before then, 1984.

I mean, Tim Duncan and Chris Paul does not equal "essentially no history."

 

[Husky68]

I prefer Uconn right where we are over anywhere else. DO NOT make decisions based on money - it never works out. I live my life by this. If a new job offers $50,000 more per year BUT I have to work way more and/or sacrifice more time and happiness, I will never take it. Money is just an idea...a thought. My life and my happiness are real. Unfortunately, I don't think many others think like this, and we will eventually end up in another conference. It's sad.

You do if it's the difference between feeding your kids or not. Anyone can pass up money they don't need.

 

[ucp990411]

Pitt and SMU fans and that's about it.

Doubt very much that Pitt fans will be excited about playing SMU

 

[PNolanFan]

A few things:

1) You think there is a bottomless pit of money at the football schools? Do you think we on the boneyard are the only ones that realize that every conference is on its last big linear contract? Have you read any interviews of P4 athletic directors? Also, do you think we are the only ones that have considered that ESPN may have a hard time meeting their contractual obligations on the back end of some of these huge linear deals. Every school is looking at the back end of those deals and looking for ways to mitigate risk, which will include managing their overhead.

2) The Demographic Cliff is here, and while WVU is the first major casualty, it will not be the last of the big time athletic schools that are mediocre or worse academically that wake up one morning and find out no one wants to go there. Alabama is known for being very generous with scholarship money to out-of-state applicants. How long can they keep that game going without pulling money in from somewhere, including the athletic department? Every million dollars they pay a coach is 20 scholarships they can't offer to boost their average GPA and test scores.

3) There will be a lot of money in streaming, but it won't be as focused on football. Basketball generates a lot of content that fans care about, and in streaming, the focus is not on coming up with the big matchup for the 3:30 Saturday time slot like it was in the cable bundle era. It is about generating a lot of content that will hopefully get a fragmented target customer base to sign up.

4) It amazes me how people who are not idiots continue to believe the self-serving ESPN PR about how all the talent and all the money and all the power in college athletics will consolidate in a handful of programs, that (not) surprisingly happen to be under contract with ESPN or Fox. NIL and the Transfer Portal are having the exactly opposite impact, and are in fact spreading the talent around. The players are smart enough to realize they won't get paid much if they don't play.

That last one cuts both ways, since Fox does promote UConn hoops pretty well.

What I think will be interesting is that in the future I think the main revenue stream will be a streaming fee that fans pay. For instance I assume that eventually I will have a basic tv package that I pay for and then I pay 10 dollars a month for access to all UConn games. I am not sure if that is the case but if it is I think we will come out pretty well nationally on subscribers to our athletic department. Wont be alabama but I bet we could get more subscribers than half of the Power 4 schools. Especially when considering all of the old people subscribing for uconn womens basketball

 

[superjohn]

What I think will be interesting is that in the future I think the main revenue stream will be a streaming fee that fans pay. For instance I assume that eventually I will have a basic tv package that I pay for and then I pay 10 dollars a month for access to all UConn games. I am not sure if that is the case but if it is I think we will come out pretty well nationally on subscribers to our athletic department. Wont be alabama but I bet we could get more subscribers than half of the Power 4 schools. Especially when considering all of the old people subscribing for uconn womens basketball

That model probably wouldn't be bad for UConn compared to many schools but that model would be really bad for college sports.

 

[BlueMAB]

Money is just an idea...a thought.

 

[noeynox]

That model probably wouldn't be bad for UConn compared to many schools but that model would be really bad for college sports.

Well the current model is good for college sports but not good for UConn. So i would prefer the model that is good for UConn because I'm selfish.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What I think will be interesting is that in the future I think the main revenue stream will be a streaming fee that fans pay. For instance I assume that eventually I will have a basic tv package that I pay for and then I pay 10 dollars a month for access to all UConn games. I am not sure if that is the case but if it is I think we will come out pretty well nationally on subscribers to our athletic department. Wont be alabama but I bet we could get more subscribers than half of the Power 4 schools. Especially when considering all of the old people subscribing for uconn womens basketball

In a cable bundling world, the relationship between Alabama and UConn is about 20:1 in terms of media revenue. I would be very happy with 5:1.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well the current model is good for college sports but not good for UConn. So i would prefer the model that is good for UConn because I'm selfish.

The current model is good for the major football conferences, but not good for UConn.

 

[tzznandrew]

I mean, Tim Duncan and Chris Paul does not equal "essentially no history."

They have two all time greats within a decade that didn't win anything while they were there. Cool.

 

[tzznandrew]

Miami is strong now. Pitt recovered nicely.

Pitt was an 11 seed after 6 straight losing seasons. Let's pump the breaks there.

Miami made an E8 and a FF as a 10 and 5 seed respectively. That's after three straight losing seasons. They weren't ever ranked the season before and beat 2 Auburn and then an 11 seed in the S16 before getting mauled by Kansas. Let's see it sustained.

Your post is way too mired in recency bias. Programs need to have more than two winning seasons in a row before I call them "strong" or say they've "recovered nicely."

 

[HuskyHawk]

Pitt was an 11 seed after 6 straight losing seasons. Let's pump the breaks there.

Miami made an E8 and a FF as a 10 and 5 seed respectively. That's after three straight losing seasons. They weren't ever ranked the season before and beat 2 Auburn and then an 11 seed in the S16 before getting mauled by Kansas. Let's see it sustained.

Your post is way too mired in recency bias. Programs need to have more than two winning seasons in a row before I call them "strong" or say they've "recovered nicely."

If so, then your post discounting a bunch of programs like Wake, NC State and GT that have better history than much of the Big East didn't make any sense. You can't have it both ways. In all time wins, 7 of the top 30 are in the ACC. Now that lacks recency bias too much. So maybe NCAA tournament wins since 2000? Couldn't find a newer one than 2020. ACC looks at least as strong as any league by that measure (not counting Maryland's).

My comment remains, if Syracuse and Louisville stay down, then that changes things. But Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, UVA, WVU, Pitt, Notre Dame is very strong and Miami, NC State and FSU have been successful at times too. Back in 2020 when they did that list, Bama and BC both had 6 wins. Things can change.

 

[mussels]

Over the last two seasons the ACC has more final four teams than any other conference. If that’s a sign of a conference in decline, it escapes me.

 

[zls44]

Over the last two seasons the ACC has more final four teams than any other conference. If that’s a sign of a conference in decline, it escapes me.

Have you considered reading the article that started the thread which explains it?