The Big East

[noeynox]

We knew they were overrated, but that was particularly brutal. One team in the sweet 16, after none last year. High RPI's are nice, but it's almost like they've mastered the art of the high RPI by scheduling right.

Villanova looked legit, but Wright doesn't recruit enough bangers it seems. Neils Giffey enforced his will on them on the boards last year. The one time Wright got his team far in the NCAA he had to go through Jamie Dixon and Pitt.

I was expecting and hoping for a better showing, even if it would have meant Nelson being more unsufferable than usual in pumping them up.

 

[mauconnfan]

I was stupid enough to take Nova yesterday in my "elimination pool" - I'm out. Fk Jay Wright!

 

[Brochacho]

Here are what seeds they have gotten, record in the tournament, and what seed knocked them out. Worth noting is that their lone S16 team only had to beat an 11 and a 14 to get there.
2014
12 Xavier: 0-1, 12 seed
11 Providence: 0-1, 6 seed
2 Villanova, 1-1, 7 seed
3 Creighton, 1-1, 6 seed
2015
6 Butler, 1-1, 3 seed
6 Xavier, 2-0,
4 Georgetown, 1-1. 5 seed
9 St. John's, 0-1, 8 seed
1 Villanova, 1-1, 8 seed
6 Providence, 0-1, 11 seed

 

[noeynox]

I believe two are still alive. In addition to ND, Xavier got a break getting to play Georgia State to go to the Sweet Sixteen.

Who besides Xavier? Nova gone, GTown Gone, PC gone, Butler gone, St Johns gone.

 

[huskyjawz]

We knew they were overrated, but that was particularly brutal. One team in the sweet 16, after none last year. High RPI's are nice, but it's almost like they've mastered the art of the high RPI by scheduling right.

Villanova looked legit, but Wright doesn't recruit enough bangers it seems. Neils Giffey enforced his will on them on the boards last year. The one time Wright got his team far in the NCAA he had to go through Jamie Dixon and Pitt.

I was expecting and hoping for a better showing, even if it would have meant Nelson being more unsufferable than usual in pumping them up.

Yup, brutal.

 

[MattMang23]

I remember that time where in two consecutive years we had a top two seed and had to play a 7 and an 8 in the second round and lost both times. Wait, no I don't.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

I don't think it's surprising, it's the same big east that always lost early in March, it just doesn't have UConn, Louisville, and occasionally cuse to carry it.

 

[willie99]

They're still living off of our reputation.

Seriously,, they may be most overrated conference in history

Who was Nova's best win this year? Georgetown? Butler?

Despite some longing for the past, there's no reason to long for membership in the NBE

 

[UConnDan97]

How the overrated Big East led to Villanova's No. 1 downfall
By Chris Chase
USAToday

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/villanova-upset-ncaa-tournament-big-east-nc-state-no-1-seed

The one thing that I don't like about this article is that it makes it sound like it's the committee's fault for their loss due to an "over-seeding" problem. The reality is that if they weren't "over-seeded", they may have lost to a tougher first round opponent. Their issue wasn't that they were over-seeded. Their issue was that they weren't all that good...

 

[tzznandrew]

The BE is a fun league. It's not a bad league. It was better than the SEC.

And Nova was pretty good.

It's just that Nova was king of the midgets...

 

[CL82]

I was stupid enough to take Nova yesterday in my "elimination pool" - I'm out. Fk Jay Wright!

No one to blame but yourself Mau. I always look to see who will be taking out Nova. I held on to them a round too many this year.

 

[CL82]

I don't think it's surprising, it's the same big east that always lost early in March, it just doesn't have UConn, Louisville, and occasionally cuse to carry it.

and by occasionally 'cuse you mean once, and that only with a decade long academic fraud in place.

 

[Dooley]

The Big East is nothing more than an over-glorified mid-major conference that rides on the coattails of schools no longer in it.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I was stupid enough to take Nova yesterday in my "elimination pool" - I'm out. Fk Jay Wright!

Best non-UConn upset I have called in a while. It being Nova was the icing on top.

 

[UConnNick]

It seems that the BE has adopted the optimal scheduling strategy that the Missouri Valley Conference became famous for several seasons ago. They manipulated the seeding process through smart scheduling.

 

[uconngb]

The one thing that I don't like about this article is that it makes it sound like it's the committee's fault for their loss due to an "over-seeding" problem. The reality is that if they weren't "over-seeded", they may have lost to a tougher first round opponent. Their issue wasn't that they were over-seeded. Their issue was that they weren't all that good...

If they aren't that good, doesn't that mean by definition they were over-seeded?

 

[UConnDan97]

If they aren't that good, doesn't that mean by definition they were over-seeded?

Let me type this slowly so that you can catch what I was saying:

Their issue...wasn't that they were over-seeded.
Their issue...WAS that they weren't all that good.

Yes, they were over-seeded. OF COURSE they were over-seeded! But that isn't an issue. That ensured that they got to play a #16 and an #8 to get to the Sweet 16, which they couldn't accomplish. If they weren't over-seeded, they would have had to play against perhaps a #14 and a #6, which would have been worse for them, not better. Over-seeding helps a team; it doesn't hurt them. What hurt Nova is that they are Nova...

 

[tzznandrew]

Let me type this slowly so that you can catch what I was saying:

Their issue...wasn't that they were over-seeded.
Their issue...WAS that they weren't all that good.

Yes, they were over-seeded. OF COURSE they were over-seeded! But that isn't an issue. That ensured that they got to play a #16 and an #8 to get to the Sweet 16, which they couldn't accomplish. If they weren't over-seeded, they would have had to play against perhaps a #14 and a #6, which would have been worse for them, not better. Over-seeding helps a team; it doesn't hurt them. What hurt Nova is that they are Nova...

I have no idea how you look at their resume and say they shouldn't have been a 1 seed.

They had a bad game and NC State got them. It's happened to all sorts of good teams in the past that were not over-seeded. I think of Kansas, multiple times, with great teams, going down in flames.

 

[UConnDan97]

I have no idea how you look at their resume and say they shouldn't have been a 1 seed.

They had a bad game and NC State got them. It's happened to all sorts of good teams in the past that were not over-seeded. I think of Kansas, multiple times, with great teams, going down in flames.

Well, that's easy. For me, Virginia, Arizona, and Gonzaga ALL had better resumes. Now, if you want to say that Virginia bowed out against MSU, that's fine. But MSU is a better team than NCState. To each their own, but Nova was not a #1 seed to me...

 

[Peacefrog]

Who besides Xavier? Nova gone, GTown Gone, PC gone, Butler gone, St Johns gone.

I was hoping nobody saw that post before I had a chance to delete it. Right after posting it I recovered my sanity and remembered that ND is now in the ACC.

 

[tzznandrew]

Well, that's easy. For me, Virginia, Arizona, and Gonzaga ALL had better resumes. Now, if you want to say that Virginia bowed out against MSU, that's fine. But MSU is a better team than NCState. To each their own, but Nova was not a #1 seed to me...

I can see Arizona or Virginia.

Gonzaga in no way had a better resume than Villanova.

Gonzaga had a lower RPI, was only 1-1 vs. RPI Top 25 (Villanova was 5-1), played only 11 Top 100 games (Villanova played 20) and had a worse SOS. The only argument was that their two losses were better than Nova's two losses.

Not a compelling case.

Even then, in your scenario they get a 2 seed? Hardly that different.

They had a bad game. They are clearly a better team than NC State by any metric. Just like UConn in 2005 was better than the NC State team that knocked them out.

 

[ctchamps]

We knew they were overrated, but that was particularly brutal. One team in the sweet 16, after none last year. High RPI's are nice, but it's almost like they've mastered the art of the high RPI by scheduling right.

Villanova looked legit, but Wright doesn't recruit enough bangers it seems. Neils Giffey enforced his will on them on the boards last year. The one time Wright got his team far in the NCAA he had to go through Jamie Dixon and Pitt.

I was expecting and hoping for a better showing, even if it would have meant Nelson being more unsufferable than usual in pumping them up.

nelson is correct. The NBE, like the OBE, needs UConn to bail their sorry azzzes! On a serious note it still amazes me what UConn has done in the past twenty years.

 

[UConnDan97]

I can see Arizona or Virginia.

Gonzaga in no way had a better resume than Villanova.

Gonzaga had a lower RPI, was only 1-1 vs. RPI Top 25 (Villanova was 5-1), played only 11 Top 100 games (Villanova played 20) and had a worse SOS. The only argument was that their two losses were better than Nova's two losses.

Not a compelling case.

Even then, in your scenario they get a 2 seed? Hardly that different.

They had a bad game. They are clearly a better team than NC State by any metric. Just like UConn in 2005 was better than the NC State team that knocked them out.

Gonzaga's only losses were to Arizona in OT and to BYU. If they didn't have that BYU brainfart, we aren't even having this discussion. (even though BYU was a tourney team)

Gonzaga's issue is that their RPI is so heavily affected by the fact that their conference has such bad bottom teams. UConn knows what that feels like. But who cares if DePaul is better than Loyola Marymount! They both suck!

Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't have beaten NCState. They still should have. But they were by far the weakest #1 seed to the point where most of the #2 seeds should have been in front of them. Now that the New Big East is laying a storybook-sized egg, we realize that many of Nova's "top100" wins are pretty much worthless...

 

[tzznandrew]

Gonzaga's only losses were to Arizona in OT and to BYU. If they didn't have that BYU brainfart, we aren't even having this discussion. (even though BYU was a tourney team)

Gonzaga's issue is that their RPI is so heavily affected by the fact that their conference has such bad bottom teams. UConn knows what that feels like. But who cares if DePaul is better than Loyola Marymount! They both suck!

Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't have beaten NCState. They still should have. But they were by far the weakest #1 seed to the point where most of the #2 seeds should have been in front of them. Now that the New Big East is laying a storybook-sized egg, we realize that many of Nova's "top100" wins are pretty much worthless...

Those wins aren't worthless, and they didn't all come against Big East teams. Who cares about Loyola Marymount, true. But Butler beat UNC, PC beat Notre Dame, etc. Gonzaga and Nova were roughly equal. And the BE stuck 5 teams in between the next best WCC team.

I can take your point that they were probably the weakest 1 seed (I'd pick Duke/Wiscy/Virginia (pre-injury)/Arizona/UK) ahead of them. I'd put them ahead of the Zags and ahead of Kansas, and then all the 3 seeds.

The Big East was overrated in the metrics the selection committee uses. And even then, they found a way to over-seed a number of teams (Georgetown, PC). But as long as the metrics stay the same (they will) we'll see this yearly, and we need the AAC to start gaming the system the same way.

 

[gars44]

I have no idea how you look at their resume and say they shouldn't have been a 1 seed.

They had a bad game and NC State got them. It's happened to all sorts of good teams in the past that were not over-seeded. I think of Kansas, multiple times, with great teams, going down in flames.

better teams sometimes lose. I can't forget George Mason. Still have nightmares.