The Best Group of Guards Ever?

[Amashutcha]

With the caveat that it may be a difference of definition, I don't agree that the entire group of PB, , CW, and EW can break their defenders down off the dribble. While PB and CW do have that ability (CW more than PB, imo) to a certain extent, I don't consider either one an ankle-breaker. Obviously, hasn't played a minute of college ball yet, but there was little evidence of this in the FIBA games this summer. EW just isn't that type of guard, perhaps due to the knee.

I've seen this mentioned a handful of times that PB and CW can't break down their defenders off the dribble. I've rewatched the past season over and over and I'm pretty certain I've seen them blow by their defenders. I don't think they have to be ankle-breakers to be effective. The simple quick first step to blow by and suck in the help defense is enough to get the defense moving and find the open person and they've done that many times, even Nika.

 

[oldude]

Nika "forced" Geno to put her in the starting lineup last year? Geno Auriemma? Did Nika use a gun?

Nope. She worked incredibly hard in practice, improved her play over the course of several games and earned the spot. Any other questions?

 

[CocoHusky]

In the present context, it is relevant since the pressure CW feels to excel which was the issue being addressed is certainly magnified.

That's a stretch. CW was a Freshman Day 1 starter for UCONN and averaged 19 PPG in her first NCAA tournament. All that was after predicting that "people were going to feel UCONN" before she ever suited up for a game and dropping bombs on ND's head in South Bend. Hard to believe that Senior CW is feeling more pressure than freshman CW.

 

[huskiemaniac]

I've seen this mentioned a handful of times that PB and CW can't break down their defenders off the dribble. I've rewatched the past season over and over and I'm pretty certain I've seen them blow by their defenders. I don't think they have to be ankle-breakers to be effective. The simple quick first step to blow by and suck in the help defense is enough to get the defense moving and find the open person and they've done that many times, even Nika.

You haven't seen it mentioned by me so why use my post as a reference?

 

[CocoHusky]

With the caveat that it may be a difference of definition, I don't agree that the entire group of PB, , CW, and EW can break their defenders down off the dribble. While PB and CW do have that ability (CW more than PB, imo) to a certain extent, I don't consider either one an ankle-breaker. Obviously, hasn't played a minute of college ball yet, but there was little evidence of this in the FIBA games this summer. EW just isn't that type of guard, perhaps due to the knee.

I've seen this mentioned a handful of times that PB and CW can't break down their defenders off the dribble. I've rewatched the past season over and over and I'm pretty certain I've seen them blow by their defenders. I don't think they have to be ankle-breakers to be effective. The simple quick first step to blow by and suck in the help defense is enough to get the defense moving and find the open person and they've done that many times, even Nika.

All the UCONN guards have the ability the break down a defender but keep in mind that from the very first practice until they graduate and are playing on the olympic team this is something Geno actively tries to coach out of his players. The UCONN offense minimizes the dribble and prefers to advance the ball by passing. There are entire no dribble drills in just about every UCONN practice. and shoot around.

 

[oldhusky]

I wouldn’t have expected Geno to go with a 4 guard lineup last year against SC. He surprised the hell out of me, but it worked.

I know others may feel differently, but here’s the way I look at it. If UConn has a starting lineup of Paige, Christyn, Evina and Liv +1. Is the team better off with Aaliyah, Dorka or Azzi as the +1?

You can switch Liv & Dorka if you wish, but imo Azzi will ultimately force Geno to put her in the starting lineup in the same way that Nika did last season.

This is one of the great ongoing Boneyard debates. Like you I think Azzi might force herself into the starting lineup, and I hope she does, but I don't think th at means a 4 guard lineup. Whoever plays the 4 in a four guard lineup, be it Evina (most likely), Christyn or Azzi, they would be less effective there than at a more natural position.

Aaliyah IMO is already as good as Christyn or Evina, although I understand not just some but most on the Boneyard would probably disagree with that. It is also her natural position. Aubrey is a very good backup to her, and now with Dorka we have a two headed monster at C. For that matter we have third stringers that almost any team would love to have as their principle backups in Amari a very highly ranked big who will probably have trouble getting off the bench, and Mir who produced pretty well in limited minutes that despite that could be even more limited this year. Who knows Piath might turn into a major asset too.

My main point is we have bigs too, and no burning need to use a guard at the 4. I agree with the talent level of the guards mentioned but think those five players need to get their minutes at 1-3, not the 4. Time will tell.

 

[Crossover]

You haven't seen it mentioned by me so why use my post as a reference?

Umm, you just said that very thing in this thread, post 57.

 

[eebmg]

That's a stretch. CW was a Freshman Day 1 starter for UCONN and averaged 19 PPG in her first NCAA tournament. All that was after predicting that "people were going to feel UCONN" before she ever suited up for a game and dropping bombs on ND's head in South Bend. Hard to believe that Senior CW is feeling more pressure than freshman CW.

Really? As time runs down, a HS #1 at UConn not making any All-American team (not to mention 1st team All American) or for team goals, a NC has to feel alot of pressure.

Freshman do not feel that pressure since they know they are not expected to do that much as a freshman and in addition, she showed major signs of future potential with the ND game etc.

Hopefully, she puts it all together in her final year. It sounds like her mind is focused

 

[huskiemaniac]

Umm, you just said that very thing in this thread, post 57.

No, I didn't.

 

[CocoHusky]

Nope. She worked incredibly hard in practice, improved her play over the course of several games and earned the spot. Any other questions?

Just a few.
The injury to Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aubrey to retain a starting position after Aubrey was put in the starting lineup to replace Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aaliyah to retain a starting position after she was placed in the starting lineup to replace Aubrey didn't have anything to do with it?
Did Geno have any other healthy scholarship guards available to him after Anna was injured that were not already starters?
Why was Nika a healthy DNP for the TN game?
Why do you think Geno waited until the start of conference play to start Nika against one of the weakest teams on UCONN schedule?
What happened on the last possession of the UCONN season?

 

[Plebe]

In the present context, it is relevant since the pressure CW feels to excel which was the issue being addressed is certainly magnified.

Not sure I'm following the train of thought here.

If the thing keeping CW's high school ranking relevant is the pressure she's felt to live up to it -- and this pressure is deemed to have negatively impacted her performance -- that this would be all the more reason NOT to cite her HS ranking as evidence of how strong this backcourt is. Which, in the end, would dovetail with @Vowelguy 's point.

 

[eebmg]

Not sure I'm following the train of thought here.

If the thing keeping CW's high school ranking relevant is the pressure she's felt to live up to it -- and this pressure is deemed to have negatively impacted her performance -- that this would be all the more reason NOT to cite her HS ranking as evidence of how strong this backcourt is. Which, in the end, would dovetail with @Vowelguy 's point.

Okay. In re-reading @Vowelguy , I see his point is that no one should inflate the players performance in college and readiness for WNBA just because they were a former #1 in HS.

I was addressing the issue of evaluating how well a player developed and lived up to their potential through college

 

[D J B]

By play defense? Do you mean they're good or elite defensively? Because Paige has yet to shown me that even her hc has said she needs to improve defensively. Her defense was abysmal in that Arizona game, she makes no effort aside swiping to take the ball,at a defender.

You can make this type of comment on YouTube including all the bad grammar, but it isn't going to work here at the BY. When you say "Paige has yet to shown (sic) me that even her hc has said she needs to improve defensively. Her defense was abysmal in that Arizona game, she makes no effort aside swiping (sic) to take the ball,at (sic) a defender" it just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. That's a beat up clunker you aren't going to sell here.

 

[maccca3232]

Table using Efficiency stats.

I have included both Total (green) and Average (orange) due to lesser number of games played last season.

Last season Paige & Christyn (36.5) are second behind only Sue & Dee in 2001-02 (37.4).

Last season was the best Top 3 & Top 4 and we return all plus add Azzi.

 

[eebmg]

Table using Efficiency stats.

I have included both Total (green) and Average (orange) due to lesser number of games played last season.

Last season Paige & Christyn (36.5) are second behind only Sue & Dee in 2001-02 (37.4).

Last season was the best Top 3 & Top 4 and we return all plus add Azzi.

View attachment 69852

What is the meaning of Top 3, Top 4 and why are they higher and in particular much higher in 2021 ???

My guess was Top 2 was top 2 guard stats averaged (Paige / CW) , Top 3 adds Evina and Top 4 adds Nika? But that does not make sense regarding the numbers?

 

[Tonyc]

We have chemistry continuity and experience in last years lineup. We need to establish that this season and work everybody else into the lineup. We have a tuff schedule early this season and I believe Geno will want to see this team play as a well oiled unit. Will Azzi start? Possibly but may not early on...until she can flow with the team chemistry. With that said I expect Azzi to see alot of minutes and more then any other freshman and most other team mates. As great as she is UConn can not afford to not play her and have her ready as soon as possible. She is a difference maker and IMO the nut that will help get us to many NCs.

 

[Skeets]

You can make this type of comment on YouTube including all the bad grammar, but it isn't going to work here at the BY. When you say "Paige has yet to shown (sic) me that even her hc has said she needs to improve defensively. Her defense was abysmal in that Arizona game, she makes no effort aside swiping (sic) to take the ball,at (sic) a defender" it just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. That's a beat up clunker you aren't going to sell here.

I agree with you, but go easy... Too many (sic's).

 

[#12in21]

Just a few.
The injury to Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aubrey to retain a starting position after Aubrey was put in the starting lineup to replace Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aaliyah to retain a starting position after she was placed in the starting lineup to replace Aubrey didn't have anything to do with it?
Did Geno have any other healthy scholarship guards available to him after Anna was injured that were not already starters?
Why was Nika a healthy DNP for the TN game?
Why do you think Geno waited until the start of conference play to start Nika against one of the weakest teams on UCONN schedule?
What happened on the last possession of the UCONN season?

All evidence would suggest that Geno does not share your opinion of Nika and why he 'started' her. Contrary to your inference that Geno tried every other option, looked down to the end of the bench and begrudgingly called Nika's number because he had no other options - he in fact has stated more than once that 'it was a different team with Nika on the floor', 'a better team'. As suggested by others she earned her playing time last year. Geno didn't have to start her, he chose to start her!

 

[oldude]

Just a few.
The injury to Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aubrey to retain a starting position after Aubrey was put in the starting lineup to replace Anna didn't have anything to do with it?
The failure of Aaliyah to retain a starting position after she was placed in the starting lineup to replace Aubrey didn't have anything to do with it?
Did Geno have any other healthy scholarship guards available to him after Anna was injured that were not already starters?
Why was Nika a healthy DNP for the TN game?
Why do you think Geno waited until the start of conference play to start Nika against one of the weakest teams on UCONN schedule?
What happened on the last possession of the UCONN season?

So Aubrey & Aaliyah failed to retain their starting positions, and I guess Anna failed to regain hers when she was back healthy? I guess some people who completely underestimated Nika’s ability will go to extraordinary lengths to rationalize their mistake. Nika earned the starting spot.

 

[oldude]

Table using Efficiency stats.

I have included both Total (green) and Average (orange) due to lesser number of games played last season.

Last season Paige & Christyn (36.5) are second behind only Sue & Dee in 2001-02 (37.4).

Last season was the best Top 3 & Top 4 and we return all plus add Azzi.

View attachment 69852

Thank you for presenting some hard data in support of the premise outlined in the OP. I admire your ambition.

 

[Skeets]

I am announcing that I am a candidate for the president of the Nika "the gnat" fan club.

 

[CocoHusky]

So Aubrey & Aaliyah failed to retain their starting positions, and I guess Anna failed to regain hers when she was back healthy? I guess some people who completely underestimated Nika’s ability will go to extraordinary lengths to rationalize their mistake. Nika earned the starting spot.

Just one more question.
When was Anna back fully healthy?

 

[maccca3232]

What is the meaning of Top 3, Top 4 and why are they higher and in particular much higher in 2021 ???

My guess was Top 2 was top 2 guard stats averaged (Paige / CW) , Top 3 adds Evina and Top 4 adds Nika? But that does not make sense regarding the numbers?

For each season I have listed the players 1 thru 4.

Top 2 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2
Top 3 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2 + 3
Top 4 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2 + 3 + 4

So for 2020-21
Top 2 = 36.5 (Bueckers 22.7 + Williams 13.8)
Top 3 = 50.9 (Top 2 of 36.5 + Westbrook 14.4)
Top 4 = 58.5 (Top 3 of 50.9 + Muhl 7.6)

 

[oldude]

Just one more question.
When was Anna back fully healthy?

Anna was back playing at the start of the BE tournament.

 

[CocoHusky]

All evidence would suggest that Geno does not share your opinion of Nika and why he 'started' her. Contrary to your inference that Geno tried every other option, looked down to the end of the bench and begrudgingly called Nika's number because he had no other options - he in fact has stated more than once that 'it was a different team with Nika on the floor', 'a better team'. As suggested by others she earned her playing time last year. Geno didn't have to start her, he chose to start her!

Shocking that Geno does not share my opinion.
Geno has been know to speak in hyperbole and he never said they were a better team with Nika. Geno full quote was:

“Since she has been in the starting lineup, there has been an incredible change in the look and feel of our team. How aggressive she is on defense. How hard she competes. How difficult she makes it for opposing point guards with her tenacity and grit. Then you throw in that she has become someone you have to guard on the 3-point line, because she is going to make just enough of them to make you disappointed you didn’t guard her. And she has a little bit of an attitude. She has a little bit of an edge. I’ve never seen a great player that didn’t have it. She has it, and I love that about her.”

Good effort to try and grow the legend of Nika-hype on.

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[HopJim]

I respectfully disagree. In HS Paige was not a good on ball defender, but once she got to UConn, she made a commitment to play solid defense, probably so that Geno would have one less thing to complain about.

Paige moves her feet and gets her hands up well. As I have remarked in other posts, Paige’s commitment to play solid defense was the most surprising element of her game at UConn.

Have to understand your definition of "solid defense" before I can agree. Mo Jeff was a great defender. Nurse was a good defender. To many, a "solid defender" is someone who can shut down the opposition. Paige does a good job playing lanes but her one on one defensive skills are still growing. While I view Paige as one of the best overall players in women's basketball, on a team that typically plays man to man, defense is not her strength.

 

[eebmg]

For each season I have listed the players 1 thru 4.

Top 2 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2
Top 3 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2 + 3
Top 4 = Per Game Efficiency of Player 1 + 2 + 3 + 4

So for 2020-21
Top 2 = 36.5 (Bueckers 22.7 + Williams 13.8)
Top 3 = 50.9 (Top 2 of 36.5 + Westbrook 14.4)
Top 4 = 58.5 (Top 3 of 50.9 + Muhl 7.6)

Thanks for the explanation. Did not think it was additive. Interesting that Evina's level is slightly higher than CW.

 

[CocoHusky]

Anna was back playing at the start of the BE tournament.

And was never fully healthy

 

[oldude]

And was never fully healthy

So you’re a doctor now?

UConn has a history of working players back into the starting lineup for the conference & NCAA tournaments coming back from injury: Tuck’s micro fractures, Gabby’s migraines, Kia’s high ankle sprain, Lou’s ankle injuries (twice), Crystal’s shin splints.

None of them were fully healthy either. Perhaps in this instance, Geno had a better option in Nika who had earned the right to start over a number of players including Aaliyah, Aubrey & Anna.

 

[Boreifs]

Table using Efficiency stats.

I have included both Total (green) and Average (orange) due to lesser number of games played last season.

Last season Paige & Christyn (36.5) are second behind only Sue & Dee in 2001-02 (37.4).

Last season was the best Top 3 & Top 4 and we return all plus add Azzi.

View attachment 69852

This season there may have to be a Top six. No one can argue against the guard depth being the best in the team’s history by far.