The ACC, Big Ten and Pac-12 are in discussions about forming an alliance for scheduling and more…

[ShakyTheMohel]

I don’t know what crazy source you are using but for the past five seasons with 2019 being the last time they played football, the Big Ten had 6 teams in the top 25, SEC had 5.

2018, the SEC had 6, the Big Ten had 5.

2017, they tied with 5 teams each.

2016, SEC had 5, Big Ten had 4……however all 4 Big Ten teams were in the top 10 and only one of the SEC teams made the top ten.

2015, Big Ten had 6, SEC had 5

According to the AP

I am using the final college football playoffs poll. The one after bowl games is pointless..many top teams don't make bowl games a priority. And not all players play..and coaches change. Also...why is 2019 the last year they played? You do realize there was a season in 2020?

Lastly...you stated that you think the big 10 still will be a stronger conference top to bottom. "Still"...as in even with Texas and Oklahoma. Did you count them? Because you said they were a deeper conference even with Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC. I would guess you didn't.

2020: both had 4. ( Plus Texas and Ok...so SEC has 6 versus B1G 4)
2019: SEC 5 + OK = 6. B1G has 6
2018: SEC had 8 + Ok/Tx = 10. B1G had 4
2017: SEC 5 + Ok= 6. B1G had 4
2016: SEC 5 + Ok = 6. B1G had 4
2015: SEC 5 + Ok = 6. B1G had 5
2014: SEC 7. B1G had 3.

Those are all of the years of the playoffs. SEC was tied or had more teams every year. They will be a much deeper conference than the B1G when they add Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

You're not allowed to add them because they weren't there.

I think from top to bottom the Big Ten is still the stronger conference in football

He said they were stronger even with Texas and Oklahoma added. I gave the numbers both ways. SEC comes out on top either way.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

He said they were stronger even with Texas and Oklahoma added. I gave the numbers both ways. SEC comes out on top either way.

You show me in quotes where I said the Big Ten was stronger WITH Oklahoma and Texas as members of the SEC. Never said that. I did say that the Big Ten was stronger than the SEC as they both are NOW. The final AP National poll after the National Champion is crowned, backs that up. Since you’re not counting bowl games, I guess you’re pretending UCONN never won the Fiesta Bowl. If you count only the top 10 in the final AP poll, the Big Ten is way out in front in many instances. The coaching in the Big Ten going back years I would say is better but only slightly. Also if Notre Dame decides to grab a membership my money is on the Big Ten for many reasons. The ACC is an option of course but I would bet against that. The rivalries Notre Dame has going back many years are mostly with Big Ten schools. Last but not least, It could be as long as 4 years before Texas and Oklahoma are SEC members, and I’m not so sure it’s even a done deal yet. Especially when Congress looks at how the economies of Big 12 cities and states are effected by the move. The loss of $1 Billion a year is not something Congress would ignore.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I think the PAC should be concerned. The BiG could poach 2-4 premier programs, cover an enormous marketplace and offer media coverage across all three time zones. I would think that equates to the SEC in terms of clout.

I would not be surprised to see two conferences each with 20 programs outside the NCAA within the next 10 years.

I think the Big Ten could much more easily grab Notre Dame and accomplish the same thing. Notre Dame does not want their football program traveling all over the east coast to play huge football powers like Virginia, BC, Wake Forest, North Carolina, and Louisville, (LOL) when the Big Ten power schools are right next door. I’d be flabbergasted if the Big Ten went after PAC 12 schools. I think Notre Dame would much rather give lip service to Maryland and Rutgers, than the ACC, for playing bottom dwellers, and schedule all the Big Ten football powers.

 

[huskymedic]

Also if Notre Dame decides to grab a membership my money is on the Big Ten for many reasons. The ACC is an option of course but I would bet against that. The rivalries Notre Dame has going back many years are mostly with Big Ten schools.

I think the Big Ten could much more easily grab Notre Dame and accomplish the same thing. Notre Dame does not want their football program traveling all over the east coast to play huge football powers like Virginia, BC, Wake Forest, North Carolina, and Louisville, (LOL) when the Big Ten power schools are right next door.

Everything is negotiable for a price but …

“As it stands, the ACC is already home for all of Notre Dame's Olympic sports, and that contract -- which runs through 2036, in conjunction with the league's TV deal -- requires that, should the Irish ever want to join a conference in football, too, it has to be the ACC or the school would face a stiff financial penalty in excess of $150 million.”

 

[billybud]

LOL...Notre Dame not wanting to travel?

Notre Dame's culture is that of a national team with national audiences and alumni...

Don't want to travel? Nuts ! They play all over

The Holy War (26 games) with BC...

Southern Cal...(89 games)

UNC (20 games)

Ohio State (6 games)

GT...(36 games)

Wisconsin (16 games)

Stanford (33 games)

Michigan (43)

Pitt (71)

and a gazillion games with Navy, Michigan State, Purdue, etc

 

[huskymedic]

 

[CONN78SEJ]

LOL...Notre Dame not wanting to travel?

Notre Dame's culture is that of a national team with national audiences and alumni...

Don't want to travel? Nuts ! They play all over

The Holy War (26 games) with BC...

Southern Cal...(89 games)

UNC (20 games)

Ohio State (6 games)

GT...(36 games)

Wisconsin (16 games)

Stanford (33 games)

Michigan (43)

Pitt (71)

and a gazillion games with Navy, Michigan State, Purdue, etc

Where have you been???? They played them as an independent all those years. They had to travel. If and they join a conference in football they have to schedule in conference games just like everyone else. OOC games would be few and far between. If you think they would want to schedule games all up and down the eastern seaboard with Virginia, BC, Wake Forest, North Carolina, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse and Pitt, then I have a bridge to sell you. Recruiting would go into the toilet, and so would any tv contracts. They would find a way to spread out the cost.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Everything is negotiable for a price but …

“As it stands, the ACC is already home for all of Notre Dame's Olympic sports, and that contract -- which runs through 2036, in conjunction with the league's TV deal -- requires that, should the Irish ever want to join a conference in football, too, it has to be the ACC or the school would face a stiff financial penalty in excess of $150 million.”

They would find a way to spread the cost out. They would much rather join the Big Ten in football than the ACC for a lot of reasons. Play Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Penn State, 2 or maybe even 3 times a year and they make that $150 million back in just a few years.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

You show me in quotes where I said the Big Ten was stronger WITH Oklahoma and Texas as members of the SEC. Never said that. I did say that the Big Ten was stronger than the SEC as they both are NOW. The final AP National poll after the National Champion is crowned, backs that up. Since you’re not counting bowl games, I guess you’re pretending UCONN never won the Fiesta Bowl. If you count only the top 10 in the final AP poll, the Big Ten is way out in front in many instances. The coaching in the Big Ten going back years I would say is better but only slightly. Also if Notre Dame decides to grab a membership my money is on the Big Ten for many reasons. The ACC is an option of course but I would bet against that. The rivalries Notre Dame has going back many years are mostly with Big Ten schools. Last but not least, It could be as long as 4 years before Texas and Oklahoma are SEC members, and I’m not so sure it’s even a done deal yet. Especially when Congress looks at how the economies of Big 12 cities and states are effected by the move. The loss of $1 Billion a year is not something Congress would ignore.

Lots wrong in here...not worth further debate.

I believe the SEC is the better football conference...you don't....moving along.

 

[BigTenFan]

Notre Dame has a huge fan base all over the country- However, much like the former College Football powers like; Texas, OK, Nebraska- the balance of power has changed in the last 10-15 years.
Clemson, LSU, Bama are the teams to beat.
ND basketball is an afterthought in South Bend

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Lots wrong in here...not worth further debate.

I believe the SEC is the better football conference...you don't....moving along.

Ok Shaky, great name btw.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Because all the Big 12 state’s economies, especially Texas cities that are home to other Big 12 schools will take big economic hits. Job losses will be widespread when and if Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12. Cities like Fort Worth, Waco, and Lubbock will take huge economic hits, and that’s just Texas.

I'll go on a limb and say Fort Worth will experience a less than negligible economic hit.

 

[CL82]

I guess you’re pretending UCONN never won the Fiesta Bowl.

 

[CL82]

They would find a way to spread the cost out. They would much rather join the Big Ten in football than the ACC for a lot of reasons. Play Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Penn State, 2 or maybe even 3 times a year and they make that $150 million back in just a few years.

If you think about it, Notre Dame has a unique option available to it. It can do a big 10 scheduling alliance now, without penalty and change conferences in 2036. I’m not saying they’re going to do it, but that’s a theoretical option.

 

[TerryD]

Notre Dame has a huge fan base all over the country- However, much like the former College Football powers like; Texas, OK, Nebraska- the balance of power has changed in the last 10-15 years.
Clemson, LSU, Bama are the teams to beat.
ND basketball is an afterthought in South Bend

ND fans largely hate the Big Ten with a white hot passion. Lots of ND fans don't want to play Michigan, Purdue, etc.. ever again.

ND loves to travel, both as an independent and as a possible conference member.

ND's biggest fear is being "regionalized" in a conference by playing "regional rivals" when it has to recruit nationally.

ND is the opposite of most schools. It doesn't want less travel, it wants to travel all over the place.

It wants games against Southern Cal, Stanford and SEC schools, not games against Minnesota and Iowa.

ND doesn't want to be a Great Lakes school, its goal is to be a national school, playing games everywhere, recruiting everywhere.

The Big Ten is the worst possible scenario for ND. ND thinks it will be put in the West and wither on the vine to become something like Nebraska.

ND's 43-8 run the past four years is fueled by recruits from the Tidewater, North Carolina, Georgia and places like that.

It wants to play games up and down the East Coast and particularly the Southeast.

If two super conferences form, ND may find the better home (damn it all to hell, it just wants to stay independent forever) in the SEC instead of the Big Ten.

P.S. ND has beaten LSU 4 of the last 6 times they have played, included bowl wins in 2014 and 2017. Is LSU a "school to beat" ??

Yes, ND basketball is an afterthought. It is considered only as something to watch on some winter days instead of a reality show, waiting for football season to begin again.

 

[TerryD]

If you think about it, Notre Dame has a unique option available to it. It can do a big 10 scheduling alliance now, without penalty and change conferences in 2036. I’m not saying they’re going to do it, but that’s a theoretical option.

ND has recently scheduled games with Alabama, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, et al.

If ND is doing any type of "scheduling alliance", it is looking South (where the recruits are) not in the Midwest.

P.S. Note that ND football is not part of this "Alliance". The 12 game playoff expansion was spearheaded by the SEC and Notre Dame. The goals of the ACC and ND football are not aligned, but are in adversarial positions. The ACC wants to limit the playoffs and force ND to join it, ND wants to stay indy with larger playoff access. That makes them potential enemies, not friends.

 

[CL82]

ND has recently scheduled games with Alabama, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, et al.

If ND is doing any type of "scheduling alliance", it is looking South (where the recruits are) not in the Midwest.

Interesting. My point is that ND is free to schedule anyone as an independent. That gives them flexibility in planning their future if they decide to give up independence.

FWIW, I can’t see ND as an SEC member. Big cultural differences.

 

[TerryD]

Interesting. My point is that ND is free to schedule anyone as an independent. That gives them flexibility in planning their future if they decide to give up independence.

FWIW, I can’t see ND as an SEC member. Big cultural differences.

Don't make the mistake of continuing to minimize the extent of the enmity between ND and the Big Ten.

Every move that ND has made since 1991 (NBC deal, partial Big East deal, partial ACC deal) had really two interrelated goals in mind:

1) Stay independent, and 2) Stay out of the clutches of the Big Ten at all costs.

Will that change with super conferences? Maybe, but maybe not.

ND to the SEC lessens ND's fears of being "regionalized" if forcibly raped into conference membership and not be able to recruit if stuck in the upper Midwest.

Understand that ND, unlike Michigan and Ohio State, has no real local recruiting base.

ND can only stay as it is if it can recruit nationally and particularly in places like Virginia and Georgia.

 

[JMick]

Beyond bizarre some here seem to enthusiastically admire it and egg it on.

I think you're mistaking schadenfreude for admiration.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

Yeah....that's what I meant by "lots wrong".

 

[Viet Vet]

Don't make the mistake of continuing to minimize the extent of the enmity between ND and the Big Ten.

Every move that ND has made since 1991 (NBC deal, partial Big East deal, partial ACC deal) had really two interrelated goals in mind:

1) Stay independent, and 2) Stay out of the clutches of the Big Ten at all costs.

Will that change with super conferences? Maybe, but maybe not.

ND to the SEC lessens ND's fears of being "regionalized" if forcibly raped into conference membership and not be able to recruit if stuck in the upper Midwest.

Understand that ND, unlike Michigan and Ohio State, has no real local recruiting base.

ND can only stay as it is if it can recruit nationally and particularly in places like Virginia and Georgia.

It may be only one sport, but Notre Dame is an affiliate member of the Big Ten.........in men's ice hockey. And they left primarily to join the BiG, not to leave the best hockey conference in the country, Hockey East. Although I (and many HE fans) were glad to see them depart along with their arrogance.

 

[TerryD]

It may be only one sport, but Notre Dame is an affiliate member of the Big Ten.........in men's ice hockey. And they left primarily to join the BiG, not to leave the best hockey conference in the country, Hockey East. Although I (and many HE fans) were glad to see them depart along with their arrogance.

Notre Dame football and Notre Dame hockey are galaxies apart.

ND fans don't care where the hockey team is housed.

Football to the Big Ten? An entirely different animal.

 

[uconndogs]

If this thing bifurcates into two super conferences then ND will have to play its hand regarding conference realignment. That structure will not tolerate an independent ND.

Counterintuitively, I thing ND cares less about money than most of major college football. That said, I don’t think they want to be on the outside when and if 40-50 programs break off from the NCAA to grab the brass ring.

Under that scenario it could very well be the BiG.

 

[TerryD]

If this thing bifurcates into two super conferences then ND will have to play its hand regarding conference realignment. That structure will not tolerate an independent ND.

Counterintuitively, I thing ND cares less about money than most of major college football. That said, I don’t think they want to be on the outside when and if 40-50 programs break off from the NCAA to grab the brass ring.

Under that scenario it could very well be the BiG.

...or the SEC.

 

[billybud]

As we are finding out about the Civil War Confederacy, feelings are passed on and strong 150 years later.

Many casual fans may not know of the anti-Catholic feelings espoused by members of the Big Ten when Notre Dame sought entrance years ago...In fact, the reason for Notre Dame's far flung schedules is rooted in the attempts by the Big Ten to freeze them out.

Yost, at Michigan, was widely known for anti-Catholic and anti immigrant prejudice...and he blackballed the Irish from the Michigan schedule from 1910 until his retirement in 1941...he led a Big ten blackball effort.

From ESPN...

So many schools blackballed Notre Dame that the school adopted a nationwide schedule just to survive. As Rockne drove the Fighting Irish to succeed, the university came to represent the millions of Catholic immigrants from Europe who saw in the team a piece of themselves. Rockne became a national figure and his renown carried college football along for the ride.

Notre Dame folks do remember.

 

[Viet Vet]

If this thing bifurcates into two super conferences then ND will have to play its hand regarding conference realignment. That structure will not tolerate an independent ND.

Counterintuitively, I thing ND cares less about money than most of major college football. That said, I don’t think they want to be on the outside when and if 40-50 programs break off from the NCAA to grab the brass ring.

Under that scenario it could very well be the BiG.

Notre Dame "cares less about money". Is that why they have an independent national TV contract?

 

[uconndogs]

As we are finding out about the Civil War Confederacy, feelings are passed on and strong 150 years later.

Many casual fans may not know of the anti-Catholic feelings espoused by members of the Big Ten when Notre Dame sought entrance years ago...In fact, the reason for Notre Dame's far flung schedules is rooted in the attempts by the Big Ten to freeze them out.

Yost, at Michigan, was widely known for anti-Catholic and anti immigrant prejudice...and he blackballed the Irish from the Michigan schedule from 1910 until his retirement in 1941...he led a Big ten blackball effort.

From ESPN...

So many schools blackballed Notre Dame that the school adopted a nationwide schedule just to survive. As Rockne drove the Fighting Irish to succeed, the university came to represent the millions of Catholic immigrants from Europe who saw in the team a piece of themselves. Rockne became a national figure and his renown carried college football along for the ride.

Notre Dame folks do remember.

I don’t think it matters anymore.

 

[uconndogs]

Notre Dame "cares less about money". Is that why they have an independent national TV contract?

Well they have one because they can. I didn’t say they don’t care about money. I do think that their independence trumps their desire to seek the greatest value for their program (i.e. joining a conference).

 

[huskymedic]

Well they have one because they can. I didn’t say they don’t care about money. I do think that their independence trumps their desire to seek the greatest value for their program (i.e. joining a conference).

Yup… worth the read in regards to ND:

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Thread by @ADavidHaleJoint: Me & @aadelson wrote this spring how the ACC can close the gap w/SEC/B1G. There were essentially 2 real answers from ADs we spoke to: Texas/OU or Notre Dame. Well, Texas/OU appear off...…

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