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Tennessee topics (merged threads)

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CocoHusky said:
Simple: Holly needs to first teach DD the right way to play, which should drastically change the way she is playing. If DD doesn't play the right way then you bench her and live with the consequences because you were not going to be successful anyway. Barriers to Lady Vols Success: : 1) Does Holly know how to teach the right way to play? 2) Is Holly prepared to live with the consequences of benching DD? I'm afraid the answer to both questions is no-Thus Holly is paralyzed and will not be successful.
DD already regards herself as successful because she was pre-maturely anointed the savior of the Lady Vols program. How do you tell an empress that she has no clothes on and her rear end is being continuously exposed?
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My impression is that DD received very little strict coaching in her life, she was phenom and probably did whatever she wanted on the court through high school. She then is allowed to choose up sides and create her own team to go to UNC, which suddenly has a coaching vacuum due to the health problems of the head coach. That didn't work out to her liking, so she chooses another destination where there won't be any push back. Her game seems suited to the AAU circuit still, flashes of brilliant individual skills that haven't meshed with any team concept.
 
mrmojack said:
It doesn't get any easier for the LV's. They are a 7.5 point underdog at #13 Miss St. tonight on the SEC Network and ESPN3. This could be their 8th loss and 5th in the last 7. Maybe they will turn it around tonight. If DD turns the ball over another 8 times tonight, she could be named MVP of the game for Miss. St. This should be a very interesting game.
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I'm not convinced at all of the quality of Mississippi State and think Tenn wins this game. If that happens, we will hear a chorus of "See? We are on the right track" from the LVol fans. They will point to lock down defense and snippets of effective offense and feel good about beating a top 15 team.
 
ericsandiego said:
I'm not convinced at all of the quality of Mississippi State and think Tenn wins this game. If that happens, we will hear a chorus of "See? We are on the right track" from the LVol fans. They will point to lock down defense and snippets of effective offense and feel good about beating a top 15 team.
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Predicting the winner of this match up is like playing a quantum mechanical game. The state of the match fluctuates too much like a wave function. I would say Tennessee has a 30-40% chance to win today.
 
HuskyNan said:
Margo is a loyal fan and I admire her steadfastness (as well as her ability to sit through Tennessee games) but she's wrong about Diamond being allowed to do her thing. I think that's exactly what's happening now so Diamond is doing what she did in high school and at North Carolina simply because no one has ever told her not to or, if they did, they never taught her what she should be doing. If she had a decent teacher, wow, the mind boggles at what a player she could be.
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A co worker of mine that is a Tennesee fan has the similar thoughts like Margo has about letting Diamond do her thing. He believes Diamond's turnovers are a result of trying too much to get her teamates involve. He said he could live with Diamond going 7 of 20 with 4 TOs than 5 of 15 with 8 TOs. He also said that Diamond need to pick her spots on her floor to take her shots than random forced shots.
 
I
Kaizen said:
Totally agree your points.
Diamond does score some points but her TO and selfish is hurting Tenn more.
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I have a problem with the double post system Holly uses. I could be wrong. But I think as it's implemented by Holly is an antiquated failure. During Pat's time having the biggest and best post players worked with this system. Nowadays coaches have figured out (thanks to Boeheim) that a 2-3 defense with long armed mid height players negates the tall guys in the middle. And since Pat's time the number of 6' and 6"1" players with long arms has increased. The days when all you needed was a pair of 6"3" posts who's limited skills need only be to shoot layups and rebound has passed. In Holly's system the guards need to do everything: Bring up the ball, beat the press (with little help from her bigs), set up the offense, somehow get the ball inside into a cluttered paint, failing that create off the dribble, shoot the perimeter shot, shoot the mid range shot, penetrate for the layup, screen for each other etc. All while the post players stand around. Of course their games devolve into 1 on 1 dribbledribbledribble shoot. When this fails the guards are going to look confused. If they aren't great shooters they're going to look horrible. I don't have a problem with their or any SEC's teams defense. My problem is the lack of imaginative or created offensive schemes throughout theirs and many conferences across the country.
 
It is amazing to me how alike these three players are: Diamond DeShields, Angel McCoughtry, and Diana Taurasi.
  • All were big time talents coming out of high school (McCoughtry blossoming a bit later) with significant upside.
  • All of them had red flags:
    • DeShields was demanding,
    • McCoughtry a bad teammate,
    • Taurasi a coach-killer.
  • ALL of them were ball-hogs.
  • ALL of them were uncoachable.
Diana met Geno and was shown the light, becoming the player everyone thought she could be, and arguably the best player of her generation. McCoughtry met Jeff Walz who convinced her that her path to success was defined by her teammates; she cleaned her act up, started supporting instead of berating them, and became a star on every level.

What will become of DeShields?
 
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I think the more common term, though no less violent would be ' I'd like to throttle ___' and our beloved Geno talking about a player who was frustrating him in practice I think has even made a pantomime of doing that deed - I think this is an accurate memory, but someone better confirm.

And of course the old Honeymooner's punch line comes to mind, including an overblown pantomime.

Sports have always coopted violent terms, like 'war' and 'battle' and much of early 'sport' grew out of military exercises and often involved the death of the loser. Thankfully we have progressed a bit from there - but the vocabulary remains repurposed for recreation.

Luckily when TN fans give Holly a 'thumbs down' after a particularly uninspired loss, they are not like Caesar before them, condemning her to a literally quick and painful death! :eek:
 
Tenn announcer huh? Imagine what he thought of DT.....except DT would have punched him first!
 
There has been so much discussion on the Boneyard lately about the underachieving Lady Vols and their head coach Holly Warlick that it got me to thinking: what would happen if Geno was the new head coach at Tennessee at the beginning of the 2015-2016 season.

Imagine that it's the first day of practice. All of the players are lined up in the gym. In walks Geno in a bright orange sweater and a basketball under one arm. CD is by his side. The players know all about Coach Auriemma. You can hear a pin drop. He is officially their new head coach.

He looks them over. He is familiar with most of them. He even recruited some of them. He knows their strengths and weaknesses. Some are probably not the kind of players he would have wanted at UCONN but this is the hand that he's been dealt.

So my question is this: could Geno Auriemma turn this particular group of players into a winning team. Where would he begin? Could they learn to be the defensive players that he would demand? Could he possibly get them to buy into the team first concept? How would he handle their team leader Diamond DeShields? Or would he just throw up his hands and whisper to CD "I just can't win with this group"? I'm curious to know what my fellow Boneyarders think about this far fetched scenario. Perhaps the answer will reveal more about Holly Warlick than it will about Geno Auriemma.
 
Dougie said:
There has been so much discussion on the Boneyard lately about the underachieving Lady Vols and their head coach Holly Warlick that it got me to thinking: what would happen if Geno was the new head coach at Tennessee at the beginning of the 2015-2016 season.

Imagine that it's the first day of practice. All of the players are lined up in the gym. In walks Geno in a bright orange sweater and a basketball under one arm. CD is by his side. The players know all about Coach Auriemma. You can hear a pin drop. He is officially their new head coach.

He looks them over. He is familiar with most of them. He even recruited some of them. He knows their strengths and weaknesses. Some are probably not the kind of players he would have wanted at UCONN but this is the hand that he's been dealt.

So my question is this: could Geno Auriemma turn this particular group of players into a winning team. Where would he begin? Could they learn to be the defensive players that he would demand? Could he possibly get them to buy into the team first concept? How would he handle their team leader Diamond DeShields? Or would he just throw up his hands and whisper to CD "I just can't win with this group"? I'm curious to know what my fellow Boneyarders think about this far fetched scenario. Perhaps the answer will reveal more about Holly Warlick than it will about Geno Auriemma.
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He could turn the program completely around in 2 - 3 years, but not with these players. After the first practice or soon thereafter to Geno's delight some would leave. Then the progress could begin.
 
Remember....Geno only recruits certain players. Could he turn the program around? Of course. He is the master of coaching. Can he do it with this team? These girls? Maybe a few, but I don't think he could with the whole team. I don't think all of these girls would buy into what he's selling. Would they be a better team than they are now? Without a doubt. Warlick's coaching style is stuck. She doesn't make the necessary adjustments that are needed. She is still running similar offense that Summitt ran. That's not going to cut it this day in basketball.
 
JordyG said:
I

I have a problem with the double post system Holly uses. I could be wrong. But I think as it's implemented by Holly is an antiquated failure. During Pat's time having the biggest and best post players worked with this system. Nowadays coaches have figured out (thanks to Boeheim) that a 2-3 defense with long armed mid height players negates the tall guys in the middle. And since Pat's time the number of 6' and 6"1" players with long arms has increased. The days when all you needed was a pair of 6"3" posts who's limited skills need only be to shoot layups and rebound has passed. In Holly's system the guards need to do everything: Bring up the ball, beat the press (with little help from her bigs), set up the offense, somehow get the ball inside into a cluttered paint, failing that create off the dribble, shoot the perimeter shot, shoot the mid range shot, penetrate for the layup, screen for each other etc. All while the post players stand around. Of course their games devolve into 1 on 1 dribbledribbledribble shoot. When this fails the guards are going to look confused. If they aren't great shooters they're going to look horrible. I don't have a problem with their or any SEC's teams defense. My problem is the lack of imaginative or created offensive schemes throughout theirs and many conferences across the country.
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I agree but also think a lot rests on the skill set of the "bigs" on your team. LV fans have been all over Russell for uninspired basketball, and from the little I've seen of their games, I believe they have a legitimate point.

However, that again begs the question - is this the result of poor coaching or is it inherent in Russell?
 
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sivad40 said:
A co worker of mine that is a Tennesee fan has the similar thoughts like Margo has about letting Diamond do her thing. He believes Diamond's turnovers are a result of trying too much to get her teamates involve. He said he could live with Diamond going 7 of 20 with 4 TOs than 5 of 15 with 8 TOs. He also said that Diamond need to pick her spots on her floor to take her shots than random forced shots.
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You work with Holly?
 
It'll never happen.............I can't even phantom it. Makes my head hurt just trying to imagine such a nightmare.:eek:..............See , if Geno was coach at , at ,at , I can't say it. But you know who I am talking about. That would mean he could not , or would not , have ever been coach at UConn. Thus , we would not have ever been able to enjoy the Dream ride we are currently on. We (UConn) might even be them now, if Geno was their coach.

Let's just enjoy this Dream Ride...... And leave the 'If's' alone. And leave everybody with their current coach. :) Real and imaginative.
 
HardHatGuy#2 said:
It is amazing to me how alike these three players are: Diamond DeShields, Angel McCoughtry, and Diana Taurasi.
  • All were big time talents coming out of high school (McCoughtry blossoming a bit later) with significant upside.
  • All of them had red flags:
    • DeShields was demanding,
    • McCoughtry a bad teammate,
    • Taurasi a coach-killer.
  • ALL of them were ball-hogs.
  • ALL of them were uncoachable.
Diana met Geno and was shown the light, becoming the player everyone thought she could be, and arguably the best player of her generation. McCoughtry met Jeff Walz who convinced her that her path to success was defined by her teammates; she cleaned her act up, started supporting instead of berating them, and became a star on every level.

What will become of DeShields?
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Would not be surprised if this time next year she is practicing her craft in Europe & still in search of guidance.
 
Sonny44 said:
He could turn the program completely around in 2 - 3 years, but not with these players. After the first practice or soon thereafter to Geno's delight some would leave. Then the progress could begin.
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Wrong.

With those players he would have them with maybe 1 loss If he and CD had the time to implement their system and started it before the beginning of the season. Tennessee has about 4 (5 star) players on paper. The remaining 4 stars and a few 3's.
 
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I remember that UConn recruited Diamond DeShields back when and that there was a lot of hope on the Boneyard that she would go to UConn. Instead, she went to North Carolina and now resides in Tennessee. Sometimes, there are mixed blessings that she did not to to UConn because her behavior pattern, work ethic, or team playing does not exhibit the behavior of the usual UConn recruit. She may have been highly regarded but all of that potential has not yet been tapped and the track she is on does not indicate that she will become an "outstanding" team player.
 
Geno would have one month before the first game of the season and I would have to assume that at least 5 of their 12 players would follow the system, play defense, and work hard in practice. Those 5 could be starters, first-in subs or deep bench. The AA women would not get in any games until they hit his minimum standard. IMHO Geno would stay with those 5 or 6 players for the entire season if necessary. Since there is some talen,t even at the end of the bench, IMO the team would win 20 games. Not delusional to think they would win any conference title ( or more.) As a posters mentioned above, several players would probably leave the team (some sooner than later.)
 
IF Geno had taken over the program immediately after the F4 and no players transferred, it would be a completely different team. He would have had an advantage as the Lady Vols had an overseas trip to Italy in August. That would have enabled him to implement his system before official practice began in the fall. Probably would only have one or two losses, with one of them being the Notre Dame game. Who knows maybe they would be undefeated. If Holly was coaching the UConn team, they probably aren't undefeated. :)
 
veryolddog said:
I remember that UConn recruited Diamond DeShields back when and that there was a lot of hope on the Boneyard that she would go to UConn. Instead, she went to North Carolina and now resides in Tennessee. Sometimes, there are mixed blessings that she did not to to UConn because her behavior pattern, work ethic, or team playing does not exhibit the behavior of the usual UConn recruit. She may have been highly regarded but all of that potential has not yet been tapped and the track she is on does not indicate that she will become an "outstanding" team player.
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I have to believe that had DD come to UConn, there is at least a 50% chance Geno would have molded her into a team-oriented player that he demands.

As we all know and appreciate, the Huskie coaching staff does a superb job analyzing basketball talent, and almost as good a job in analyzing potential recruits for their personality traits.

Since he recruited her, he must have been confident that she had what it takes to succeed at Storrs. So just because she seems off the rail at UNC and UT, that doesn't mean she wouldn't have been a great addition at UConn.
 
I think it would take a couple of months, but yes, he could - most of these players want to be pros, and so they would be stuck with him just like he would be stuck with them for at least the first semester. Graves would be his rock, CD would be spending hours with Russell who would be excited to actually be learning something, and the guards would pretty quickly shake themselves out. Not sure who would be getting minutes, but they would be running his stuff, and really, based on YTD there isn't much differentiating between current effectiveness so if three of them wanted to pout, they could do that for 40 minutes on the bench and he would make do with the ones who wanted to play. A month on the bench and attitudes would change. Running a real offensive system, and an intelligent team defense would show results immediately. Would they beat the current Uconn team, probably not, but they would not be losing to unranked teams.

One of the biggest problems I see with TN is that actions do not seem to have consequences in terms of when and how long players play. And that has nothing to do with making shots or not, it has to do with making the right and smart decisions. Between that, and having antiquated systems and what appears to be really bad teaching is what is killing the TN team.
 
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I believe that Geno is actually the type of coach who could get DD to reach her potential (which is enormous). She would not be able to do whatever she wants to do...her pouting would not be acceptable, her careless turnovers would not be tolerated, etc. It probably would have taken few games in which she would have played very little (if any) but it would have been very good for her.
In regard to Geno coaching TN scenario, his base would have been Graves and Carter and he would have build around them a UConn type team...
 
cabbie191 said:
I agree but also think a lot rests on the skill set of the "bigs" on your team. LV fans have been all over Russell for uninspired basketball, and from the little I've seen of their games, I believe they have a legitimate point.

However, that again begs the question - is this the result of poor coaching or is it inherent in Russell?
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In Holly's system the bigs do very little. If you watch Russell you see how well she runs the floor and how she has the capability to move without the ball. Why is she being smothered in a system that fails to take advantage of her skill set? In watching UT games this year I have yet to see her take a shot from 5 feet or more. How do we know she can't? If not how will she ever develop such skills? I see DD running around trying to do everything failing at most. If the bigs were more involved, meaning expanding their roles and going to at least a hi-lo offense, they would be less predictable and the guards wouldn't have to do so much But Holly doesn't teach diversity on offense. They teach a very simple one dimensional predictable scheme. Like most of the SEC.
 
JordyG said:
In Holly's system the bigs do very little. If you watch Russell you see how well she runs the floor and how she has the capability to move without the ball. Why is she being smothered in a system that fails to take advantage of her skill set? In watching UT games this year I have yet to see her take a shot from 5 feet or more. How do we know she can't? If not how will she ever develop such skills? I see DD running around trying to do everything failing at most. If the bigs were more involved, meaning expanding their roles and going to at least a hi-lo offense, they would be less predictable and the guards wouldn't have to do so much But Holly doesn't teach diversity on offense. They teach a very simple one dimensional predictable scheme. Like most of the SEC.
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Holly Warlick should be arrested for coaching malpractice. Mercedes Russell, a 6-6 tall post player and the #1 ranked recruit out of high school, is shooting 55.6% from the floor but she's averaging only 8 shots a game. Bashaara Graves, a vastly underrated and poorly used player, averages only 6.4 shots and she's averaging 60% FG%. Russell and Graves together have taken 268 shots; DeShields alone has taken 277 and she plays fewer minutes than either forward. What Warlick is thinking (if anything) is beyond me.
 
I think at very first, Geno will not accept DD's transfer.
And now I know why UNC let her go even she is the FOY and a score machine.
 
Is the premise of this thread that Geno started coaching the Orange Ones before the 2015-16 season, or that he hypothetically starts at the beginning of next season? It makes a big difference. If we hypothesize that he started in July 2015, when everyone saw that Deshields and Russell would be added to a team that made the Elite 8 last year, then it might have been a struggle. Diamond and Te'a might have figured that they knew how to win, and didn't need no stinkin' coach to tell them. They would probably have wanted to do it their way.

But if the premise is that Geno starts coaching the team in the summer of 2016, after they have all had the experience of losing regularly to less talented teams and basically getting blown out by Notre Dame, then I think the reception would be different. Their experience of losing and their desire to win would overcome any resistance that they (really only those two) might feel towards being coached.

Imagine next year that a Tennessee team coached by Geno has a starting lineup of Russell / Nared / Deshields / Carter / Cooper, and plays a UConn team coached by ... Oh, say Anne Donovan (since we're hypothesizing). UConn's starting lineup is Natalie / Morgan / Lou / Gabby / Kia. Who wins?

If you think I'm stacking the deck by choosing Donovan as coach, then pick your own coach, but exclude CD / Shea / Marisa since (by hypothesis) they've all gone to Knoxville.

I think under that scenario (assuming the game is played in January or February 2017, after Geno and company have had time to teach the system thoroughly), the Orange Ones probably win.
 
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