Tennessee barely survives Chattanooga 59-57

[meyers7]

Tenn is not even a remote threat this year. I will even say that SC is not a threat. The championship goes through ND...AGAIN...ugh. If this doesn't change soon, the women's game will suffer. It can't be the same two teams every year. It will bore the hell out of everyone.

Not me. I'm not bored.

 

[ChicagoGG]

I find it troubling for TN that Holly said in her presser they were still trying to find out who played well together. That does not speak well to team cohesiveness or good coaching.

 

[BroadwayVa]

You are preaching to the choir, brother.

I am not among the Tenn haters--didn't care much for the Maya crap---I like good to great WBB from any team and it's sad to see so much talent wasted. The season is early--let us hope they reach their potential before April.

 

[msf22b]

I used to complain about the lack of competition
But you know what?
There was plenty of competition last night; we were just too much better
A lot of lower-ranked teams are willing to go in and mix it up with the top-10
And as we've seen this season, sometimes they win. Don't forget Dayton
UTenn has been sleep-walking for years, even during the last of Pat's tenure.
Their play this season is an embarrassment to the tradition of the program.
They're the worst 4 and 0, I can remember.
They'll get their comeuppance.

 

[Kibitzer]

Oh come on Kibs, she's a troll. A fun one, but a troll.

I am neither naive nor gullible. IvyLeague insisted repeatedly that she is a UTK fan, albeit a critical one. Based on what I read, I believe her and I just don't how she can thus troll on VolNation. She is not an alien, she is one of them! (Marching to the beat of a different drum.)

Probably, but eventually you'll have to play some top level teams too.

You quoted me (not shown here, but in the cited post) writing something I don't recall -- about eventual team improvement. Please confirm. Thanks.

 

[EricLA]

I find it troubling for TN that Holly said in her presser they were still trying to find out who played well together. That does not speak well to team cohesiveness or good coaching.

Well it's still early, but I think even a casual fan can tell you who played well together - the starting 5 and then add in Diamond. It's not rocket science, Holly. Then again, that same starting 5 started out the 3rd quarter and they were outscored 17-7, so maybe Holly is right!

To the Tenn fans who said they were so awesome in the first quarter, maybe Chatty just played really poorly which made Tenn seem like they were better. Unless the team has only enough energy to go hard for about 8 minutes in a game, it's unlikely that they weren't trying hard to start the 2nd half... Tenn was basically outplayed for 3 quarters of the game (I count a quarter where they play even getting out played due to the talent gap)... But, I get it - Tenn fans are looking for a silver lining.

 

[Icebear]

Some of us said immediately when the polls came out that Tennessee was vastly overrated and had many problems to solve and that many would be greatly disappointed. I am not sure they even belong in the Top Ten at this except for the fact some others have been equally shake.

UCONN plays Chattanooga at Chattanooga on November 30th that will provide us with something of a comparison.

 

[Zorro]

Has anyone else noticed, all of this sounds just like deja vu all over again. You could take last year's comments on the LV, either from the BY or VolNation and switch them with this year's and no one would notice the difference.

 

[VFLfan]

Has anyone else noticed, all of this sounds just like deja vu all over again. You could take last year's comments on the LV, either from the BY or VolNation and switch them with this year's and no one would notice the difference.

Actually, this year it's worse. They're not playing half as well as they did last year in most games...if that can even happen. And Eric...I think you mentioned you didn't watch the game...we actually did play really well the first quarter. Maybe Chatt wasn't prepared at the start but we were full court pressing and got a ton of steals, got the ball inside for lay-ups and our guards started 3-6 from 3 pt land. Scored 17 straight at one point. We played well the first quarter...but that's it.

 

[Beemer]

IMO it is all very well and good to recruit & sign McDonald's All Americans to your squad but if their playing styles don't mesh and if their personal chemistry is lacking the coach is going to have a hard time building a true team, I don't care who you are talking about. Perhaps TN should concentrate on getting fewer AAs and sign very good players whose playing styles/chemistry complement each other.

I've noticed this before about Tennessee teams. Tremendous credentials & skills but unable to truly play as a team.

 

[Ctpaul0825]

“When you’re 3-18 from the three-point line, you need to understand that it’s time to quit shooting,” Warlick said after the team’s win. “We just gotta get a little more basketball sense, a little more basketball mind … These kids are smart enough. You gotta get the ball inside.”

You have to score from all areas on the floor, Holly's post player dependence does not fit the modern era of women's basketball.

 

[Kevin G]

Tennessee has the talented players on PAPER.....However, what is uncertain is their mentality and playing together versus poor coaching. IMO, it is both. Due to injuries and transfers this team has not played together that much. At least at UCONN, we have 4 returning starters and our 5th starter played all last season.

 

[meyers7]

You quoted me (not shown here, but in the cited post) writing something I don't recall -- about eventual team improvement. Please confirm. Thanks.

Not sure how that happened. That was TennParkers quote. ???????

 

[huskyd]

Schadenfreude means taking pleasure in other's difficulty. Some think that humans are hard-wired to have this feeling. But whether it is inherited or acquired, schadenfreude, if we're honest, is a feeling most of us have had at one time or another. For example, when TN walloped Chattanooga by 2 points at home last night, how many of us reached for a hanky with which to dry our eyes? Anyone? If Uconn had beaten KSU by a point, how many of us would have said, “Hey, a win is a win,” then had a glass of warm milk and fallen into a peaceful slumber? Anyone? Husky fans want their team to win and to inflict on their opponents noteworthy defeats that lead to anti-depressants and talk therapy. I may be exaggerating, but I don't believe I'm making this stuff up. Next victim, please.

 

[UConn990411]

Way too much analysis going on in this thread for an answer that's very simple.

Tennessee isn't poorly coached; they're horrendously coached. I can't imagine Warlick making it past this season.

 

[Beemer]

Way too much analysis going on in this thread for an answer that's very simple.

Tennessee isn't poorly coached; they're horrendously coached. I can't imagine Warlick making it past this season.

I think that depends on how many years are left on her contract. From what I understand the Tennessee AD is no fan of WCBB and would be most unlikely to be willing to eat Warlick's remaining salary & hire a big name coach for the Lady Vols.

 

[EricLA]

Way too much analysis going on in this thread for an answer that's very simple.

Tennessee isn't poorly coached; they're horrendously coached. I can't imagine Warlick making it past this season.

Good post but I disagree with you on one point - that she may be gone after this season. Pat made a living off teaching the same kind of offense and defense that Holly teaches. However Pat did it with much less competition and her results were obviously better.

My point is, Holly managed to land Russell, got DD to transfer, and possibly as a result, got T'ea Cooper to come to Knoxville. On paper, she's actually recruiting better than Pat (the only time Pat ever had 2 #1 recruits, or in this case, #1 and 2) was when she had Holdsclaw and Catchings on the team at the same time (I think they overlapped at least a year or 2). And certainly in her 5th season, she's recruited better than Pat at the same time in Pat's career.

So Holly's recruiting at least as well as Pat. Tenn is in the mix to land a very solid guard in Kentucky transfer Linnae Harper. I think she only has 2 years remaining, but still, they could land her. Also Tenn fans are super psyched for 2017 as they have said they lead for Kushkituah, and I'm not sure who else they think they will land for 2017.

Point is, Tenn may not be recruiting at the level of UCONN or ND, but on paper, they are up there in the top 5. I think Holly lasts at least a few more years, and longer if she continues to land top 10 recruits...

 

[Bayareahusky]

I think that depends on how many years are left on her contract. From what I understand the Tennessee AD is no fan of WCBB and would be most unlikely to be willing to eat Warlick's remaining salary & hire a big name coach for the Lady Vols.

Ya I think that is a big factor which is seldomly mentioned...... he is a football guy...... and has lowered the focus on WCBB.... sad to see

 

[j66kicker]

Schadenfreude means taking pleasure in other's difficulty. Some think that humans are hard-wired to have this feeling. But whether it is inherited or acquired, schadenfreude, if we're honest, is a feeling most of us have had at one time or another. For example, when TN walloped Chattanooga by 2 points at home last night, how many of us reached for a hanky with which to dry our eyes? Anyone? If Uconn had beaten KSU by a point, how many of us would have said, “Hey, a win is a win,” then had a glass of warm milk and fallen into a peaceful slumber? Anyone? Husky fans want their team to win and to inflict on their opponents noteworthy defeats that lead to anti-depressants and talk therapy. I may be exaggerating, but I don't believe I'm making this stuff up. Next victim, please.

Not exaggerating at all! (speaking strictly for myself, of course) But it's just sports. Actually just sports fandom. Being emotionally invested in sports teams allows us to act out our hostilities, schadenfreude, whatever, without actually harming anyone. And of course "a win is a win" only applies to us. We are also entitled to describe our teams' wins in the first person ("We played great defense tonight.") and losses in the third person ("They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn tonight.").

And I love the idea of pounding important rivals into anti-depressants and talk therapy!

 

[Bayareahusky]

Good post but I disagree with you on one point - that she may be gone after this season. Pat made a living off teaching the same kind of offense and defense that Holly teaches. However Pat did it with much less competition and her results were obviously better.

My point is, Holly managed to land Russell, got DD to transfer, and possibly as a result, got T'ea Cooper to come to Knoxville. On paper, she's actually recruiting better than Pat (the only time Pat ever had 2 #1 recruits, or in this case, #1 and 2) was when she had Holdsclaw and Catchings on the team at the same time (I think they overlapped at least a year or 2). And certainly in her 5th season, she's recruited better than Pat at the same time in Pat's career.

So Holly's recruiting at least as well as Pat. Tenn is in the mix to land a very solid guard in Kentucky transfer Linnae Harper. I think she only has 2 years remaining, but still, they could land her. Also Tenn fans are super psyched for 2017 as they have said they lead for Kushkituah, and I'm not sure who else they think they will land for 2017.

Point is, Tenn may not be recruiting at the level of UCONN or ND, but on paper, they are up there in the top 5. I think Holly lasts at least a few more years, and longer if she continues to land top 10 recruits...

Yes ESD, oh yes yes..... no question Holly has had wonderful recruiting success..... agreed..... Pat did it when competition was less.... no question..... and playing same type of basketball game certainly.....

Pat had that fire inside that Holly seems to lack yes? Pat willed her team to many wins..... she had high expectations of her team and was not afraid to get in her player's faces

 

[bballnut90]

Good post but I disagree with you on one point - that she may be gone after this season. Pat made a living off teaching the same kind of offense and defense that Holly teaches. However Pat did it with much less competition and her results were obviously better.

My point is, Holly managed to land Russell, got DD to transfer, and possibly as a result, got T'ea Cooper to come to Knoxville. On paper, she's actually recruiting better than Pat (the only time Pat ever had 2 #1 recruits, or in this case, #1 and 2) was when she had Holdsclaw and Catchings on the team at the same time (I think they overlapped at least a year or 2). And certainly in her 5th season, she's recruited better than Pat at the same time in Pat's career.

So Holly's recruiting at least as well as Pat. Tenn is in the mix to land a very solid guard in Kentucky transfer Linnae Harper. I think she only has 2 years remaining, but still, they could land her. Also Tenn fans are super psyched for 2017 as they have said they lead for Kushkituah, and I'm not sure who else they think they will land for 2017.

Point is, Tenn may not be recruiting at the level of UCONN or ND, but on paper, they are up there in the top 5. I think Holly lasts at least a few more years, and longer if she continues to land top 10 recruits...

Couple corrections--Tennessee had multiple top 2 recruits in the following years, there may be other years prior to 1996, too:
1996- Marciniak and Holdsclaw
1998- 1999-Holdsclaw, Catchings
2001-Robinson and Catchings
2002-2004-Ely and Robinson
2005-Hornbuckle and Ely
2006-2007-Hornbuckle and Parker
2008-Hornbuckle, Parker and Bjorklund

Lawson also took home a HS POY award or two if I'm not mistaken. Randall was also regarded as a top 2 or 3 recruit. Over that 13 year span of having multiple top 2 recruits, Pat took home 5 titles, played in 8 title games and made 10 Final Fours.

Since 2008, Tennessee has landed its share of top 20 players but has not been able to haul in top two recruits outside of Russell and DD, so to say she is recruiting as well as Pat did is incorrect.

UT has landed some very good players and has had the horses to make final fours, but they haven't been a true title contender since 2008 which is also the last time they have multiple top 2 recruits. On paper they should be a top 5 team, but teams have lacked cohesion on Holly's first three years. I'm still optimistic for this season, largely because I think once Russell and Deshields figure out there roles, Tennessee will be a more dynamic team than in years past. Realistically, making the final four would qualify a great season for Tennessee but I'm expecting an Elite 8 loss. Honestly this year is going to be a building season for everyone since I don't see anyone coming within 20 points of Connecticut.

 

[Carnac]

I'm just gonna say it. Tennessee is not a great team. Not even a very good team. I get that Chattanooga was ranked to start the season, but a loss to Indiana, and surviving Southern Miss in OT dropped them out of the top 25.

Tenn came out gangbusters in the 1st quarter and then was outplayed the rest of the game and Chatty just couldn't quite get over the hump. Tenn fans can say what they want about DD, Russell, Cooper, whatever, but as a TEAM, they just aren't that good. 3rd game in a row where they really should have walloped the opponent, instead, they escaped with a win.

Did not see the game so can't offer any insight other than their fans must be going bonkers... If this is what the most talented team since the Parker years can do, I fear for their future...

It appears Tennessee has stumbled coming out of the gate. Everyone (including me) was touting how good they were going to be, and how if they played up to their potential, they may go deep into the NCAA Tournament. IMHO, I think Tennessee is a year or two away from being a serious contender to win championship.

The season is still young. If coach Warlick is going to "right the ship", she'd better do it quick. Losses, good or bad at anytime during the season (as well as near misses) are a determining factor when the committee seeds teams for the tournament. Especially if you lose to an unranked opponent.

Remember when Gloria Swanson told Cecil B. DeMille "I'm ready for my close up"? Any team that expects to be ready for their close up, needs to be in the "make-up" chair now!! They need to start getting ready TODAY. NOT in January or Feburary.

I remember something former Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda once said "You can't win a pennant in April, but you sure can lose one".....if you get my drift. A team needs to forge a winning attitude and persona now. The competition for the 4 top seeds is fierce. You must begin building your case for one of those seeds NOW.

One loss (as UConn proved last year) won't neccessarily hurt you. Several losses (or near misses) can come back to haunt you later (getting a lower seed, which means you face higher seeded teams earlier in the tournament).

South Carolina, Baylor and Notre Dame have also raised some eyebrows. They have not begun the season as dominant as the critics lead us to believe they would.

As others on this board have conintuosly lamented, it's one thing to have a lot of talent. It's another thing to mesh and blend that talent into a cohesive unit that can play together and be effective on both ends to the court.

In contrast, the play of the Huskies the first two games (and the margines of victory) sends a clear message to the rest of WCBB, that UConn is still on the block (we never left) , and it's bussiness as usual.

While enroute to the dressing room after a recent game which his team won, an NFL quarterback passed by a group of reporters and asked them...."You like that?"........yeah, I like that!.

 

[EricLA]

Couple corrections--Tennessee had multiple top 2 recruits in the following years, there may be other years prior to 1996, too:
1996- Marciniak and Holdsclaw
1998- 1999-Holdsclaw, Catchings
2001-Robinson and Catchings
2002-2004-Ely and Robinson
2005-Hornbuckle and Ely
2006-2007-Hornbuckle and Parker
2008-Hornbuckle, Parker and Bjorklund

Lawson also took home a HS POY award or two if I'm not mistaken. Randall was also regarded as a top 2 or 3 recruit. Over that 13 year span of having multiple top 2 recruits, Pat took home 5 titles, played in 8 title games and made 10 Final Fours.

Since 2008, Tennessee has landed its share of top 20 players but has not been able to haul in top two recruits outside of Russell and DD, so to say she is recruiting as well as Pat did is incorrect.

UT has landed some very good players and has had the horses to make final fours, but they haven't been a true title contender since 2008 which is also the last time they have multiple top 2 recruits. On paper they should be a top 5 team, but teams have lacked cohesion on Holly's first three years. I'm still optimistic for this season, largely because I think once Russell and Deshields figure out there roles, Tennessee will be a more dynamic team than in years past. Realistically, making the final four would qualify a great season for Tennessee but I'm expecting an Elite 8 loss. Honestly this year is going to be a building season for everyone since I don't see anyone coming within 20 points of Connecticut.

Go back to Pat's first 5 years as a HC and do that comparison. That was what I said in my post. So yeah, it's correct that Holly is recruiting at least as well as Pat in Pat's first 5 years. And per your fans, Cooper is one of the top 2-3 players in her class. So you have Deshields, Russell, and Cooper. Would you agree that at least 2 out of those 3 are better than Marciniak, Robinson, Ely, Hornbuckle, and Bjorkland? Pat started there in the early or mid 70's right? What was her recruiting like in the first 5 years? When did she start getting great players?

 

[Tonyc]

I remember when Pat had a picnic and asked an ole coaching friend from Villanova to come down and teach her how to run a motion offense. He did. I dont know why she never implimented it but she didnt and her asst coaches one was Holly never learned it. Holly learned what Pat did she is a duplicate of Pat and Pats old philosphy worked for a very long time but times have changed and Holly hasnt as have other coaches. Geno has set a new standard an no other coaches have followed. Thats why there is so much parity in WCBB and then there is UConn. Its not about getting the best players its about getting your players to do what you want them to do. What you want them to do is learn the fundementals with discipline and execute those fundenmentals. Tenn along with many other teams dont. When a game gets close Tenn and other teams give the ball to their go to player to bail them out. Geno teaches to run your plays and play to your strengths and trust what your doing and you will win.

From what Ive seen Tenns play hasnt changed. Their players have changed but their execution hasnt. Until they change what their doing they will continue to get what their doing.

I understand the frustration Tenn fans have. The expectations are high but the reality never changes. It wont change until Holly commits to change what shes doing and is willing to take a step back before she can take a step forward.

 

[CL82]

Wow, I find myself in the odd position of defending the Lady Vols head coach but here it goes....

It's early.
Figuring out how to incorporate DD was always going to take time.
Soft in November does not mean soft in March.

Now if you will excuse me I have to shower.


unclean, unclean...