Tennessee 2025, part 2

[Phil]

I asked AI and got a less than fully satisfactory answer but some things are worth noting.

It does appear to be true that she was offered a chance to sub in the game late when it was effectively over. She declined that option so Maria's claim that she "had a chance to enter game late, opted not to" is accurate but incomplete.

According to her post (I'll try to post it) she said "the one night I was most looking forward to was senior night. As someone who was never started a career game, I was hoping to start my last appearance in Thompson-Boling. That obviously did not happen, and to be asked to check into the game with 15 seconds left while losing was not how I wanted to spend my final moments in the arena…"

One can still debate whether it was a reasonable coach's decision not to start her in a game they felt they had a chance to win but not much margin to spare, given her usual sub approach, she could started and played for three minutes.

 

[Phil]

 

[JeannoCT]

Well I was wrong. She did refuse. After reading her twitter post, I really feel for her. Sad way to go out.

 

[cancontent]

I don't believe for one minute that it was her decision not to play. Why have your family there to celebrate and then you refuse to go in the game. She had 8 family members/friends on the court with her on Senior Day.

To be fair, the post I shared came from a press writer claiming "sources". That can obviously be taken with a grain of salt. Wynn's post on Twitter indicates a different perspective. So now it's a matter of who does one believe and that comes down to the individual.

 

[visitingcock]

We beat that horse at every opportunity no matter how much stench of death surrounds it

 

[Vowelguy]

I recall an interview with Shea Ralph early in her tenure at Vandy. And she made a comment like "Culture beats [xx - I forget what] 10 times out of 10." I was a little surprised by the statement and the boldness of it. But she clearly had a vision. Fast forward: she seems to know what she's doing.

Choosing not to play/start a senior is a choice. And if in the end you lost by 2 because the senior was on the floor, I think you could say that you still did the right thing.

Unless the players had previously burned bridges ....

 

[triaddukefan]

Depends on the school. In this case? ALWAYS.

You assume I was referring to the Tennessee Coach 😏 🤔🫢

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Just my opinion, but if the player was honored before the game that is all that is required. The expectation that an inactive player should be entitled to start the game or play significant minutes in a competitive game vs top 5 opponent --- when her team was in midst of existentially terrible skid --- isn't reasonable.

Be mad at Caldwell for not being a good coach if you want. Not for trying to maximize chance of winning.

 

[Geew1992]

Just my opinion, but if the player was honored before the game that is all that is required. The expectation that an inactive player should be entitled to start the game or play significant minutes in a competitive game vs top 5 opponent --- when her team was in midst of existentially terrible skid --- isn't reasonable.

Be mad at Caldwell for not being a good coach if you want. Not for trying to maximize chance of winning.

She wasn’t inactive. She had played in 9 games during the season.

 

[Stagnant]

15 seconds is an insult

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Well I was wrong. She did refuse. After reading her twitter post, I really feel for her. Sad way to go out.

I would have told them to kick rocks too.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Just my opinion, but if the player was honored before the game that is all that is required. The expectation that an inactive player should be entitled to start the game or play significant minutes in a competitive game vs top 5 opponent --- when her team was in midst of existentially terrible skid --- isn't reasonable.

Be mad at Caldwell for not being a good coach if you want. Not for trying to maximize chance of winning.

I could think of a lot more ways to maximize winning than this. But, in any case, it’s done.

 

[Rocket009]

What's telling is "this was not the sole reason, it was the breaking point for me." A lot of other issues obviously happening behind the scenes that are impacting the team.

 

[Vowelguy]

Just my opinion, but if the player was honored before the game that is all that is required. The expectation that an inactive player should be entitled to start the game or play significant minutes in a competitive game vs top 5 opponent --- when her team was in midst of existentially terrible skid --- isn't reasonable.

Be mad at Caldwell for not being a good coach if you want. Not for trying to maximize chance of winning.

Not significant mins, but they can’t play for a minute mid game?
Esp at Tenn where they just want you to run all out for 2 mins?

I also would’ve had a conversation with them pregame to set expectations.

 

[southie]

Charlie Creme just saying something like, Tenn still deserves a #7 seed for keeping it close or playing competitive or something random vs Vandy. Me? I'm thinking, that's a six game losing streak at the end of the season, when IMHO, the committee should be looking at what teams are finishing strong. Still not buying the SEC is SO strong, etc, etc, when I'm looking at a 8-8 and 16-12 record, the latter wins of which were vs East Tennessee State, UT Martin, Belmont, Middle Tennessee, Coppin State, Winthrop, and Southern Indiana. And no, I am not disparaging those programs.

The committee is supposed to look at "Last 10 games", I believe. That being said, I don't think that in itself paints an accurate picture.

Tennessee started out SEC play with a 7-1 record. The second half of conference play had them going 1-7. Most would agree that Tennessee's first half conference schedule was much easier than the second half which was very tough other than A&M. If we flipped Tennessee's conference schedule, would folks be giving them props for going 7-1 to end the regular season? No, they'd be talking about the level of competition; and, that's what I think most committees ignore. If you want to evaluate a team based on their last 10 games, look at the level of competition, not just the won-loss record.

 

[triaddukefan]

I would have told them to kick rocks too.

I was gonna post that she should have told coach this, but I didn't want to come across as mean 😁

 

[Phil]

I also would’ve had a conversation with them pregame to set expectations.

This is EXACTLY right.

I've had a long "conversation" with AI which says it's common for seniors to start but not universal. Wynn clearly expected to start. I think there are legitimate arguments excusing Caldwell's decision not to start her, but I think she owed her a conversation. Explain why it's not going to happen, because when you invite the family members to your senior day and let them know (I would guess) that you are going to start, it hurts a lot when you don't. It may not be the easiest thing to take if you are told in advance, but that's a lot better than finding out when the starting lineup is announced and you're not on the list.

I've also just finished reading page after page of VolNation and almost none of them get it. I think I found one or two posters that emphasize the need for the conversation then one or two others echoed it but they went back and forth on whether she obviously should've started whether she obviously should not have. Almost none of them picked up on the fact that what ever the the coach wanted the coach should've communicated to the player.

 

[JellyBean]

This is not a good look for Coach Caldwell and with recruiting going on. Good luck landing any elite level talent.

 

[EricSD]

In a competitive game, say against SC or Texas, I would say MAYBE but... no conversation with her? Plus Tennessee could end the season losing 9 out of 11 and Creme STILL has them as a 7 seed? Not sure what it takes to push Tennessee down. Makes zero sense to me.

Bottom line starting her for 1 minute to start the game to honor her would have had almost zero impact on the game. But then to disrespect her without the courtesy of a conversation, shame on Kim. I hope Tennessee fans are ripping her for this.

Oh and BTW, Maria Cornelius is a Tennessee shill and is a spin mouthpiece for the program. I swear, one of their coaches or players could murder someone, and she'd spin it positively for the program.

 

[JstVisiting]

Clearly swimming upstream ITT but I agree with whoever said “I’m owed a start” is unreasonable. Maybe!

But maybe not. They really needed a win. Understand completely not starting someone who has scored 5 points all year.

Lot of disappointment for Tennessee, but I think she inherited a culture problem with her JRs and SRs, handled it poorly, and they/it tanked the back half of their season.

 

[GoChips20]

I don’t think Caldwell will or should be fired but however you look at it, this season has been disastrous for Tennessee:

• Generally uninspired or undisciplined play
• Mediocre record with few noteworthy wins
• Broken locker room/team morale
• Players filmed arguing and laughing in huddles
• Coach regularly losing control of emotions at the mic and throwing players under the bus
• Negative headlines for off-court issues

Caldwell is still really young for a HC. She has a lot of potential and clearly has high standards for success. The two major issues I see are an unwillingness to adjust a gimmicky style of play unfit for the SEC and a lack of soft skills/leadership by example. Both those are fixable but only if she’s willing.

 

[GoChips20]

I saw a Reddit comment saying Wynn can’t physically move well enough to defend after her Achilles injury. Thats an indictment on TN’s medical IMO but if true it’s understandable given how badly TN needed a win.

The fumble is that she clearly went into the game with different expectations and from what we’ve seen of Caldwell it’s not difficult to imagine her disregarding a heads-up discussion.

 

[Stagnant]

My idea for Tennessee is a bridge coach. Someone proven that can get the program back to where it needs to be. Run the program for about 10 years and then Tennessee can find their long term coach.

I think Jeff Walz would be a great hire. He might be ready for a new challenge. And Tennessee should be able to offer more money (salary, for assistant coaches, and NIL).

I think sticking with Caldwell is probably delaying the inevitable. She seems in over her head.

 

[visitingcock]

My idea for Tennessee is a bridge coach. Someone proven that can get the program back to where it needs to be. Run the program for about 10 years and then Tennessee can find their long term coach.

I think Jeff Walz would be a great hire. He might be ready for a new challenge. And Tennessee should be able to offer more money (salary, for assistant coaches, and NIL).

I think sticking with Caldwell is probably delaying the inevitable. She seems in over her head.

“Back where the program needs to be.”
What is that?
For about ten years? They haven’t had a coach last that long since Pat.

They need to throw about 5 mil per year at a Mark Campbell or Dawn Plitzuweit “rising star.” Someone who has shown they can build a team from scratch at the P-5 level but is probably not at a “destination job.”

 

[diggerfoot]

Just my opinion, but if the player was honored before the game that is all that is required. The expectation that an inactive player should be entitled to start the game or play significant minutes in a competitive game vs top 5 opponent --- when her team was in midst of existentially terrible skid --- isn't reasonable.

Be mad at Caldwell for not being a good coach if you want. Not for trying to maximize chance of winning.

This opinion is a hard sell on a board where the coach always starts seniors in the last game. Though the outcome is never in doubt now it was with the earlier Big East. He is also a coach for whom most players come back to visit and many contribute to a continued winning culture.

There is also the reality that games have motivational ebbs and flows in which the present responds to what happens on past possessions. Putting a senior in to start for two minutes, while possibly losing those two minutes, holds the potential of winning more of the next 38 through a motivational boost. One cannot know for sure the impact ahead of time.

 

[Puppy Love]

Considering that the Vols played four players for a total of 38 minutes that collectively scored one point, I doubt that this was about winning the game. I read somewhere that the substitutions are decided before the game. If have my doubts, but it makes sense if you consider how random and meaningless that the sometimes appear to be.

I have wondered through the season how much better this team would be with a real coach who teaches actual basketball skills. I’ve been clear from the start that I don’t like the Vols (understatement) and I thought this approach wouldn’t work, but it’s an epic disaster. This latest PR problem just adds to the speculation that Coach Caldwell can’t handle basketball at this level.

 

[Puppy Love]

The committee is supposed to look at "Last 10 games", I believe. That being said, I don't think that in itself paints an accurate picture.

Tennessee started out SEC play with a 7-1 record. The second half of conference play had them going 1-7. Most would agree that Tennessee's first half conference schedule was much easier than the second half which was very tough other than A&M. If we flipped Tennessee's conference schedule, would folks be giving them props for going 7-1 to end the regular season? No, they'd be talking about the level of competition; and, that's what I think most committees ignore. If you want to evaluate a team based on their last 10 games, look at the level of competition, not just the won-loss record.

For me, it’s not just that they lost the last 10 games, it’s that they lost some of them so badly. I think it’s indicative that the team is just worn down and checked out. The only thing we see from Coach Caldwell is to blame the players after games. It seems she’s either lost the locker room or she just isn’t a good coach or both. Insanity is when you keep doing the same things and expect different results. I’d say that pretty much describes what the public sees of the Tennessee program.

 

[WBBTakeover]

They need to throw about 5 mil per year at a Mark Campbell or Dawn Plitzuweit “rising star.” Someone who has shown they can build a team from scratch at the P-5 level but is probably not at a “destination job.”

You can't be serious!

You don't throw that kind of money at two unproven HCs. Plitzuweit is going to make her FIRST NCAA tournament appearance at Minnesota in THREE seasons! If that's worth 5 million, then I can think of far better candidates than her. Hell, Kim Caldwell is more accomplished at P4 than Plitzuweit with a Sweet 16 appearance and a win over UConn.

You toss that kind of money at these candidates and you will be replacing an AD. 5 million a year is Dawn/Geno/Kim Mulkey money ONLY.

 

[southie]

In a competitive game, say against SC or Texas, I would say MAYBE but... no conversation with her? Plus Tennessee could end the season losing 9 out of 11 and Creme STILL has them as a 7 seed? Not sure what it takes to push Tennessee down. Makes zero sense to me.

Bottom line starting her for 1 minute to start the game to honor her would have had almost zero impact on the game. But then to disrespect her without the courtesy of a conversation, shame on Kim. I hope Tennessee fans are ripping her for this.

Oh and BTW, Maria Cornelius is a Tennessee shill and is a spin mouthpiece for the program. I swear, one of their coaches or players could murder someone, and she'd spin it positively for the program.

That sounds like a comment more applicable to the human polls than bracketology. Tennessee is #21 in NET (5-10 record in Q1 wins/losses) and #22 in RPI. Five Q1 wins is pretty good. A team's entire body of work for the entire season should be evaluated; not just the last 10 games or so. Despite being 16-12 right now, they were like 15-5 like 3 weeks ago. Six of their seven recent losses were to teams ranked higher than them, I believe.

In order for Creme to move Tennessee down, the teams he has seeded below them need tp gain some quality wins; none of them are going undefeated so they will take some losses, as well.

 

[visitingcock]

You can't be serious!

You don't throw that kind of money at two unproven HCs. Plitzuweit is going to make her FIRST NCAA tournament appearance at Minnesota in THREE seasons! If that's worth 5 million, then I can think of far better candidates than her. Hell, Kim Caldwell is more accomplished at P4 than Plitzuweit with a Sweet 16 appearance and a win over UConn.

You toss that kind of money at these candidates and you will be replacing an AD. 5 million a year is Dawn/Geno/Kim Mulkey money ONLY.

What other coach is gonna take the job for less? Dawn/Geno/Kim won’t. Do Vic or Cori want to risk their careers for less than monster money? I would guess that the same goes for Jeff and Wes . There is a lot of risk at Tenn. Kim Barnes Arico though Michigan has big sacks of money and less expectation

A wnba coach wanting to raise her income?