Tenn gets pounded

[JordyG]

Tennessee players laid out their all in the Notre Dame game on Monday night, then had only two days to rest and regroup before the Auburn game. Our big three--DeShields, Russell, and Nared--have to score well into the double-digits, with at least other player stepping up to have a chance of winning competitive games. They were able to do so for the first quarter of the Auburn game but in the second quarter they began to run out of gas. We have no other reliable substitutes so DeShields and Nared had to continue with only a few short breaks. Auburn brought in fresh players and maintained a full court press for the entire game which further contributed to wearing us down and increasing their lead. This also led a rash of turnovers. Auburn leads the league in opponent TOs. We will have more losses interspersed with a few good wins. It is what it is.

UConn played FSU on Nov 14, which they won by two points then played Baylor on the 17th. On the 20th they played LSU. With a shorter bench than UT. Read my post above about recruiting, talent, and the character flaws inherent in UT's coaching administration.

 

[Frenchy]

A dream came through for all the LV haters! The LV are in a twilight zone and as long as Holly is the coach they shall remain there. So lets hope she keeps recruiting and wins just enough to remain there!

 

[Bayareahusky]

Tennessee players laid out their all in the Notre Dame game on Monday night, then had only two days to rest and regroup before the Auburn game. Our big three--DeShields, Russell, and Nared--have to score well into the double-digits, with at least other player stepping up to have a chance of winning competitive games. They were able to do so for the first quarter of the Auburn game but in the second quarter they began to run out of gas. We have no other reliable substitutes so DeShields and Nared had to continue with only a few short breaks. Auburn brought in fresh players and maintained a full court press for the entire game which further contributed to wearing us down and increasing their lead. This also led a rash of turnovers. Auburn leads the league in opponent TOs. We will have more losses interspersed with a few good wins. It is what it is.

I always get the feeling with TN fans that they always are fighting an uphill battle.... whether it be injuries, a short bench, little time between games, the bad refereeing (as Margo alluded to tonight), Holly's getting adjusted to the HC job, and a host of other things..... I look at Auburn and they do not seem like Murderers Row.... but the LVs - with 6 McDonalds All Americans - looked like an intramural team vs Auburn at times.... after a 14-0 start, they were outscored by 32 points..... I just had a feeling after Monday night game.... seeing TN put effort into their play like i had not seen in a long time.... that the ND game was going to be the high water mark for DD at TN and probably other players as well..... DD had only 1 TO on Monday but had 9 TOs tonight.... how can that happen? she is supposed to be the best player TN has! Auburn has no All Americans at all, yet they kicked butt vs the Lady Vols during We Back Pat week no less.... It is too bad.... Pat would be going crazy, but then again, she is the one who was so strident on Holly being the perfect choice to take over the reins

 

[Sonny44]

There's something that many people don't understand. Coaches don't teach effort. They don't teach strong wills. They don't teach athletic ability. They don't teach behavior. They don't teach mental toughness. They don't teach character. They don't teach smarts or basketball IQ. They recruit for it.

This is a gross oversimplification at best. Sure, you can recruit for these, but any coach who cannot affect/improve/teach these characteristics in young players needs to look for a different job.

 

[HuskyNan]

UConn played FSU on Nov 14, which they won by two points then played Baylor on the 17th. On the 20th they played LSU. With a shorter bench than UT. Read my post above about recruiting, talent, and the character flaws inherent in UT's coaching administration.

UConn also played a Texas on Dec 4 in CT, ND on the road on the 7th, and then KState on the road on the 11th, all with a short bench. And Saniya was out for the KState game.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Tennessee players laid out their all in the Notre Dame game on Monday night, then had only two days to rest and regroup before the Auburn game. Our big three--DeShields, Russell, and Nared--have to score well into the double-digits, with at least other player stepping up to have a chance of winning competitive games. They were able to do so for the first quarter of the Auburn game but in the second quarter they began to run out of gas. We have no other reliable substitutes so DeShields and Nared had to continue with only a few short breaks. Auburn brought in fresh players and maintained a full court press for the entire game which further contributed to wearing us down and increasing their lead. This also led a rash of turnovers. Auburn leads the league in opponent TOs. We will have more losses interspersed with a few good wins. It is what it is.

t sounds like you're saying the LVols are out of shape.

 

[DefenseBB]

Tennessee players laid out their all in the Notre Dame game on Monday night, then had only two days to rest and regroup before the Auburn game. Our big three--DeShields, Russell, and Nared--have to score well into the double-digits, with at least other player stepping up to have a chance of winning competitive games. They were able to do so for the first quarter of the Auburn game but in the second quarter they began to run out of gas. We have no other reliable substitutes so DeShields and Nared had to continue with only a few short breaks. Auburn brought in fresh players and maintained a full court press for the entire game which further contributed to wearing us down and increasing their lead. This also led a rash of turnovers. Auburn leads the league in opponent TOs. We will have more losses interspersed with a few good wins. It is what it is.

All valid points as the bench is only 7 deep (sound familiar?) and while they have an injured player this year who would be starting, the fact the team is not conditioned to play 40 min, has no depth and no offense solely rests on CHW. This dumpster fire of a team with so much talent is a result of her lack of coaching. Has Russell or DD improved during their time there? She knows how to leverage the history of the Tenn program for recruiting but is utterly clueless how to improve and evolve a team. Effort and attitude most certainly are inspired by the coach. The new AD should insist Holly hire a new Assistant Coach to help with the offense. Than maybe that team could achieve a level to their talent.

 

[Charliebball]

All valid points as the bench is only 7 deep (sound familiar?) and while they have an injured player this year who would be starting, the fact the team is not conditioned to play 40 min, has no depth and no offense solely rests on CHW. This dumpster fire of a team with so much talent is a result of her lack of coaching. Has Russell or DD improved during their time there? She knows how to leverage the history of the Tenn program for recruiting but is utterly clueless how to improve and evolve a team. Effort and attitude most certainly are inspired by the coach. The new AD should insist Holly hire a new Assistant Coach to help with the offense. Than maybe that team could achieve a level to their talent.

and next year the have the number one recruiting class coming in............more talent to be thrown into the abyss

 

[eebmg]

I always get the feeling with TN fans that they always are fighting an uphill battle.... whether it be injuries, a short bench, little time between games, the bad refereeing (as Margo alluded to tonight), Holly's getting adjusted to the HC job, and a host of other things..... I look at Auburn and they do not seem like Murderers Row.... but the LVs - with 6 McDonalds All Americans - looked like an intramural team vs Auburn at times.... after a 14-0 start, they were outscored by 32 points..... I just had a feeling after Monday night game.... seeing TN put effort into their play like i had not seen in a long time.... that the ND game was going to be the high water mark for DD at TN and probably other players as well..... DD had only 1 TO on Monday but had 9 TOs tonight.... how can that happen? she is supposed to be the best player TN has! Auburn has no All Americans at all, yet they kicked butt vs the Lady Vols during We Back Pat week no less.... It is too bad.... Pat would be going crazy, but then again, she is the one who was so strident on Holly being the perfect choice to take over the reins

Everyone knows how hard it it to maintain a high TO average. You have to trick the coach into believing she is part of the solution and not part of the problem

Stats of DD NCAA Statistics

2o16 36 games 82 assists 115 TO
2017 15 games 47 assists 57 TO

 

[msf22b]

I have a horrible mean-spirited thought (which I really don't believe).
That Pat insisted on Holly, fully knowing what the world would get.
To cement her legacy as the greatest....

 

[meyers7]

Tenn gets pounded

 

[bags27]

Has it be mentioned that we almost witnessed an historic quadruple double? DD had 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists, and (whoops!) 9 turnovers

 

[eebmg]

Has it be mentioned that we almost witnessed an historic quadruple double? DD had 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists, and (whoops!) 9 turnovers

View attachment 18861

The most amazing stat on that stat line is the 8 assists. Color me impressed.

 

[oldude]

Consider the incredible inconsistency of execution and effort demonstrated by teams like Tenn, OSU and others over the past few seasons, and then remind yourself of Geno's remarks to the Huskies at the beginning of the season, as seen on the All-Access special:

"Great players don't get tired.....We're not here to coach your energy level and your effort. That's a given. You wouldn't be here if I had to coach that. That's what other coaches have to do. They have to coach energy. We don't."

Whether it's the type of players that Tenn recruits or the inability of the coaching staff to get them to play hard all the time, the Lady Vols clearly struggle with their energy & effort, something that never was an issue when Pat Summit was the coach.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I think that HW has never made the transition from assistant with responsibility for recruiting to head coach with responsibility for conditioning and game-time coaching.

Truly awful coaching performance this season and last. But seems as though Tennessee is stuck with her, because of her recruiting. They won't dare get rid of her, even knowing that she won't take this team far, because getting rid of the coach risks losing all those recruits as well.

Zombie team. Keeps waking up from the dead.

 

[meyers7]

The most amazing stat on that stat line is the 8 assists. Color me impressed.

That's really hard to do. Hand out 8 dimes and still have a < 1.0 A/TO ratio.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

And 9 turnovers for DD. If I'm a WNBA GM, no way will I take a chance on such a volatile and inconsistent performer as DeShields. I let someone else take her and let that team deal with the headaches she'll cause. She will screw up the chemistry of whichever team she joins.

Not worth it.

 

[tomcat]

I couldn't understand why BYers in the ND to Bridgeport thread were afraid of TN in UCONN's bracket? Why would anyone be worried about TN? I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 recruits withdraw their choice of the Vols before the end of the season!
If UCONN were to play TN in the NCAA's they'd win by 50, maybe more! They'd backdoor and drive on them like the 2000 Finals in Philadelphia!
The greatest moment of my life would be if Holly got a lifetime contract as TN HC (shows you how exciting MY life is)!

For me, at least, there was no fear of TN in the bracket. I thought that was a great placement. It was the overall quality of the other teams that, compared to other brackets, made that one look like UConn was being punished.

 

[watanabe]

Summit trauma release (STR)
First when hearing the news, then after getting confirmation from similar responses.
Thanks.

 

[Bestiarius]

Lots of varied opinions in an attempt to understand why Tenn has become what it has become. May as well add my $.02.

Since the LVs deemed it important to play well on national TV against ND, and not so well against a smaller stage opponent, is that a clue that Diamond and Mercedes might be jumping to the WNBA?

I found it interesting that Margo mentioned the refs as a problem for TN in the Auburn game, but no mention of the home cooking going on in Knoxville in the Notre Dame game. Certainly the ND loss was critically affected by the refs in the 4th quarter, not to mention the scorekeeper sounding the horn early at the end of the game when ND was trying to pull out the win in the last 5 seconds.

The Holly dilemma is a bad coach balanced by her ability to recruit highly ranked players. In my view, not only is she a bad coach, but a bad recruiter too. I say this because recruiting is a 2 way street. The coach has to attract players, but the players have also to woo the coach. In general, players interested in TN are doing so for reasons other than wanting to work hard, be challenged, or team play. Yes they have talent and want Championships, but their desire is on their own terms. Thus, Tennessee rarely gets the true great players, players who know they are not perfect and need good coaching to reach their potential.

Finally, how long is Tennessee going to continue hanging on to Pat Summitt's coat tails? Her legacy seems to have morphed into a vehicle for fund raising. It's no longer about basketball. I can't help but think the players are being taken advantage of with the added burden of having to win for Pat and Tyler Summitt's Foundation to keep the funds rolling in .

 

[Phil]

In my view, not only is she a bad coach, but a bad recruiter too. I say this because recruiting is a 2 way street.

I am not sure how a coach who just attracted the #1 recruiting class in the counting can be called a bad recruiter. I see you attempted to explain; maybe I just didn't follow your point.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I am not sure how a coach who just attracted the #1 recruiting class in the counting can be called a bad recruiter. I see you attempted to explain; maybe I just didn't follow your point.

I agree that Holly has been OK on the recruiting trail. It is my opinion though that kids are coming to Tennessee for the scholarship and the exposure, not to play for the revered HC Holly Warlick. TN represents a good place where the fan base is good, they have banners hanging in rafters ... so that means they have had success in the past....

But also recruits know that they will not be pushed or challenged at all to get out of them their best abilities.... In some cases, they think they are beyond reproach. Remember last year when Diamond was on the bench, and her father tweeted for the world to see, openly asking why would the HC have her best player and best chance for winning on the bench?

It seems that TN is a program going through the motions now.... after the games, the same things said in the pressers.... without a whole lot of emotion.... like "This is game #15. It seems as though the other team wanted it more than we did. We quick shot the ball, and we had too many turnovers,. I don't know what is wrong. If I did then i would fix it. We can learn from this loss tonight. We practice so hard. I don't know why we didn't bring it tonight."

To look at all the standing around on offense and defense..... or the lack of fundamentals such as getting a shot off within the shot clock or breaking a press (especially against an inferior team).... it makes you feel a bit sad for the precipitous fall TN program has taken.

 

[HuskyNan]

The most amazing stat on that stat line is the 8 assists. Color me impressed.

That's because Tennessee was actually hitting its shots for a change.

 

[DefenseBB]

And 9 turnovers for DD. If I'm a WNBA GM, no way will I take a chance on such a volatile and inconsistent performer as DeShields. I let someone else take her and let that team deal with the headaches she'll cause. She will screw up the chemistry of whichever team she joins.

Not worth it.

I whole heartedly agree with your logical assessment however all GMs think "well, I think we can CHANGE this through OUR coaching". This happens all the time in all sports when GMs see underachieving Talent.

 

[JordyG]

This is a gross oversimplification at best. Sure, you can recruit for these, but any coach who cannot affect/improve/teach these characteristics in young players needs to look for a different job.

And I see your analysis as being mastery of the obvious. Of course anything can be improved or enhanced. However if those qualities aren't innate no coach can transplant them. To steal an old phrase, you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear.