Teams/programs with something to prove this season

[stwainfan]

Stwain - I like you attitude and agree that all fans of great programs expect a FF and a NC every year.
I just hope that you and the rest of the LV fans give Holly a little slack if she does not acheive that this year. Realistically (from outside) I think the bottom line should be making sweet 16. Getting to the Elite 8 would be great, and getting to the FF would be brilliant. You have a good team but the whole process of moving on from Pat's legacy has to be a huge and difficult process.
Anyway - good luck this year.

Thanks! There is one thing about it. Holly played there and has been there as a coach for a long time. So there won't be no drastic change. As a new coach with a new system. Plus Pat is still a part of the program.

 

[UcMiami]

Thanks! There is one thing about it. Holly played there and has been there as a coach for a long time. So there won't be no drastic change. As a new coach with a new system. Plus Pat is still a part of the program.

I still think it is going to be a huge shift for the program - Pat was so dominant nationally, but also specific to UT and the UT athletic department. Holly will not have that clout/support. And yes I know Pat is still connected, but at sort of an arm's length. It is not going to be easy for Holly this year and I do hope that the fans stay positive even if things do not go as smoothly as they hope.

 

[DobbsRover2]

A few comments:

• Louisville. Overachieved all the way to NC game in 2009, but they lost Angel and Bingham after the season and what have they done for anyone lately? Definitely need to improve the recruiting since for the next two seasons they weren't even in the top 50 in the preseason rankings, but in 2011 they overachieved all the way to the Sweet 16 from the early season dismissal of any talent. Last year they were awarded the preseason #9 ranking and were looking pretty good early before they lost first one than a second key starter and had to battle on through to a bow out in the 2nd round of the NCAAs. But not trying to make excuses for the Cardinals because we know what happens to good teams like UConn who lose two starters -- they still battle on to win the NC every time, or so our legends appear to say. I too have seen Walz be maybe a bit on the grumpy side once on TV. It's official, Jeff's an ogre, and if you're mean to the bone you better at least win an NC.
• UConn. No NC game visits for two years? With the second-most demanding bone-crunching fans in the country, that better improve or I'm no longer buying any Auriemma Pinot Grigio.
• The whole SEC conference. No teams in the FF the last four years, and one year when the conference incredibly had a losing record in the NCAAs? This from a conference that once saw itself as the cream of the WCBB and holy summit of all "lady" hoopersterism? The conference whose members sneered at the Big East with all sorts of derisive terms, and now have seen 7 BEast squads in the FF since the last time any SEC team made a visit. UTenn, LSU, KY, GA, Vandy, you name it -- we need to see you still got game. Glorying in getting some hapless punching bag as far as an Elite 8 game is not the way it used to be. Let's see some punching back.
• Big 10 conference. Who would have thought that PSU might be needed to save the name of this conference? At one time the B10 members were major players in WCBB, but in recent years we measure the top B10 teams more by their flaws than their accomplishments. Over the last 3 years, the B10 teams have managed just 2 total appearances in the Sweet 16, which makes the SEC look like the Alpha and Omega by comparison. The conference desperately needs some team to step into relevance in the top 10, so we'll see if PSU can wear that mantle.
• ACC teams, kind of. In recent years there have always been at least one and usually two ACC teams that can make it to the Elite 8 and ride fairly high in the rankings during the year. But if Duke or another team could get back to the FF, that would help add at least some recent swagger to the conference resume.
• PAC. Over the last 4 years the conference teams have gone 25-11 in the NCAAs, but Stanford has accounted for 17-4 of it. The Cardinal didn't the NC during that time, but it did the heavy lifting of the reputation with 4 FFs for a conference that always ranks 6th of the majors. If Stanford takes even a small step back this year, the conference needs a few of USC, UCLA, AZU or Cal to get up into the top 25 for appearance's sake.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Dobbs - I assume AZU is ASU. Not sure they are burning anything up this year, but don't know all that much about them. Thorne returns, which is good for something.

UofA, well, I'll go to home games as possible. Expect nothing, because it looks like that's what we'll get. Best (in fact all) Freshmen left after last season, playing the Little Sisters almost exclusively in the pre-season, no impact additions . . .

Not really sold on the PAC 12 teams to push Stanford or go far in the tourney. But we will see.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Dobbs - I assume AZU is ASU. Not sure they are burning anything up this year, but don't know all that much about them. Thorne returns, which is good for something.

UofA, well, I'll go to home games as possible. Expect nothing, because it looks like that's what we'll get. Best (in fact all) Freshmen left after last season, playing the Little Sisters almost exclusively in the pre-season, no impact additions . . .

Not really sold on the PAC 12 teams to push Stanford or go far in the tourney. But we will see.

Not sold on PAC either, but you have to assume that with all the talent in CA HS schools that some day it will not be just Stanford to represent the PAC. The conference occasionally has had a few teams make nice runs in the NCAAs. I can't see a huge amount on the horizon out there for the PAC teams, but the room is definitely open for a #2 and #3 group of teams to start asserting themselves more long term in the niche behind Stanford. Thinking Cal will build on a decent enough season last year (though not against top teams) to maybe push higher this year.

 

[pinotbear]

A few comments:

• UConn. No NC game visits for two years? With the second-most demanding bone-crunching fans in the country, that better improve or I'm no longer buying any Auriemma Pinot Grigio.

You shouldn't buy the Auriema Pinot Grigio, anyway - it's not that good. The Nero D'Alvo, on the other hand, is a nice red for the price.

 

[DobbsRover2]

You shouldn't buy the Auriema Pinot Grigio, anyway - it's not that good. The Nero D'Alvo, on the other hand, is a nice red for the price.

Well, if PinotBear says Geno's Pinot is no good, he should know better than anyone. And bear's can put away a lot of it, though maybe not as much as joyful bullfrogs. I've never tried the Nero because I wasn't sure what it was, but I'll give it a try as soon as the team finally wins another game. 5 months and counting is a long time to wait, though maybe the Huskies can claim a little of that Olympic gold.

 

[Outside Shot]

I don't agree with the Louisville overachieved argument. I think they had/have a roster as "talented" or more so than most. Last year's team had:
G Schimmel- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G Smith- Top 5 recruit by ESPN
G/F Hammond- Top 15 recruit by ESPN
F Vails- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report
F Taylor- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report

How many other schools, not named UConn, Tenn or Duke could claim 5 recruits of that status? I just don't buy that Louisville overachieved. Did they lose players to injury? Yes. However, their roster was stacked!

 

[EricLA]

I don't agree with the Louisville overachieved argument. I think they had/have a roster as "talented" or more so than most. Last year's team had:
G Schimmel- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G Smith- Top 5 recruit by ESPN
G/F Hammond- Top 15 recruit by ESPN
F Vails- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report
F Taylor- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report

How many other schools, not named UConn, Tenn or Duke could claim 5 recruits of that status? I just don't buy that Louisville overachieved. Did they lose players to injury? Yes. However, their roster was stacked!

I never thought of Vails or Taylor as being that talented, or that sought after, but I'd also forgotten they had Bria Smith on their team. She never struck me as a great "shooter", but I think she's a pretty terrific scorer. Not sure tho - i'd have to go back and look at stats or something to see. Obviously i did not see a lot of their games...

 

[DobbsRover2]

I don't agree with the Louisville overachieved argument. I think they had/have a roster as "talented" or more so than most. Last year's team had:
G Schimmel- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G Smith- Top 5 recruit by ESPN
G/F Hammond- Top 15 recruit by ESPN
F Vails- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report
F Taylor- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report

How many other schools, not named UConn, Tenn or Duke could claim 5 recruits of that status? I just don't buy that Louisville overachieved. Did they lose players to injury? Yes. However, their roster was stacked!

Um, is this the same ESPN of the "Power 5" propaganda that proclaimed the above-discussed Cierra Burdick as the #3 player in the nation and #1 at her F position in her senior season? I not only take preseason rankings with many many grains of salt around the Margarita, but those HoopGurlz\ESPN\Blue Star etc. ratings all tend to have their issues when being related to actual college performance, and for some reason they often disagree with each other, so we can all pick and choose from one or another pre-college ratings service to call out team the queen of the hill and proud possessors of the next four championships of whatever. I'm not really all happy-face with ESPN right now, but I'm sure others love them and their precision ratings.

Fact is Louisville in the preseason was rated to get to the Sweet 16 but instead bowed out in the round of 32. This happened after they lost their leading scorer and best player Monique Reed early in the season, and a starting guard Tia Gibbs who had led the team in steals and was the #2 rebounder and assist disher, and #3 scorer. Comparatively to UConn, that would have been like losing leading scorer KML plus maybe someone like Bria Hartley. Now you are quite right that the other players have to step up and especially freshmen like Smith and Hammond, but it's still a big order not to fall back a bit when you lose the meat and glue of your lineup. Would UConn have made it to the FF if they lost two of their top 3 players last year? Not sure about that.

So when the Cardinal pooh-poohers start throwing out all those "it was just a few injuries, they should deal with it," summation for last year, it make me suspect:

• Knowledge of Louisville team: diddly on the squat side.
• They still believe Louisville got blown out in their first round NCAA game instead of losing in a close road game against a #2 seed (and yes I know that some overrated SEC team should likely have gotten that #2 seed)
• There's still a lot of people who are mad at Jeff Walz for letting his team mess up that UConn and OK rematch back in 2009.

 

[doggydaddy]

A lot of talk about Burdick here...I saw her play a lot last season.

Towards the end of the season, she really found a groove n the court. I could tell she was much more comfortable in her role. She is a very skilled passer and can play very well in the high low game.

She will still be behind Spani at the three. She could start at the four, perhaps with freshman graves at the five.

Burdick could average double digit scoring, but she will have to improve defensively. Holly is going to want to play a fast run and gun style. If Burdick can keep up with that style, she will log substantial minutes and will score some points.

Tennessee is televised quite a bit, and I would disagree about Burdick and her finding a groove towards the end for the year. And certainly her stats in her last 12 games don't prove that out.

10 mins, 2 points, 5 rebounds
26 mins, 10 points, 7 rebounds
18 mins,10 points, 6 rebounds
22 mins, 4 points, 3 rebounds
12 mins,6 points,3 rebounds
15 mins, 4 points, 2 rebounds
7 mins,5 points,2 rebounds
9 mins,4 points,1 rebounds
15 mins,0 points,2 rebounds
8 mins,2 points,4 rebounds
5 mins,0 points,2 rebounds
3 mins,0 points,1 rebounds

She had 2 "groove" games in her last 12 with double digit scoring and over those 12 games she averaged 12.5 minutes, 3.9 points, and 3.1 rebounds.

Maybe extended minutes will allow her to find a groove and play to her potential.

 

[doggydaddy]

You have the patience of Job. Nothing wrong with being optimistic about your team.

I agree, but overly optimistic statements like Stainfan about UT on a UConn board are usually challenged.

Heck, we challenge overly optimistic statements about UConn...lol.

 

[doggydaddy]

Stwain - I like you attitude and agree that all fans of great programs expect a FF and a NC every year.

So, did you really expect a FF and NC when Bird, Jones, Williams and Cash graduated?

 

[stwainfan]

I still think it is going to be a huge shift for the program - Pat was so dominant nationally, but also specific to UT and the UT athletic department. Holly will not have that clout/support. And yes I know Pat is still connected, but at sort of an arm's length. It is not going to be easy for Holly this year and I do hope that the fans stay positive even if things do not go as smoothly as they hope.

It's not easy to take over for a legend. Pat was there for workouts just like she has always been. I listened to some interviews and one thing stood out to me. It was about Simmons the word Mature.

 

[HuskyMJ]

It's crazy to read some of this at times. What's defined as good enough? Duke has been very good, won several ACC titles and featured multiple pro players on seemingly every team. They've been one step short of a final four. The Blue Devils have replenished their roster with top level talent. Maryland has been to the Elite 8 four of the last seven seasons, won 2 ACC Tournaments and an ACC regular season title. They too turned over their roster and have managed to again be a Top 5-10 team. Notre Dame would've won it all last year if there wasn't a 6-8, genetic freak playing for Baylor. Not to mention Baylor committed hundreds of recruiting violations (apparently all worthy it) and are dancing in the street with the crown jewels despite being caught cheating.

Programs that probably thought they'd do better than they have in recent seasons- Rutgers, North Carolina, Virginia come to mind. Louisville actually has what was considered elite talent in Schimmel and Smith in the backcourt (both were Top 10). Asia Taylor was Top 20 on the All Star Girls Report. Sharrone Vails was considered a top 30 from what I remember. Sara Hammond was highly regarded (as we know).

Overall, the pool of truly elite players is so shallow that when they all repeatedly go to the same few schools, it doesn't leave a lot for other programs. Many of the coaches have done terrific jobs with what they have to coach.

I agree with everything you just said. The OP listed teams and I only somewhat agreed with one-LSU. None of the others have something to prove they were very successful and could be next year but even if they aren't so what? If you make sweet 16, elite 8 final 4 any of those you had a fantastic season. Teams with something to prove are those that just did not do well or coach who could be gone soon. LSU lost in 2nd round but they have a new coach and still need time to build a program. My list:

Alabama- last place in SEC I don't know if they are on hot seat but it could be possible
Most of the PAC 10 not many teams got bids to the tournament and the talent level is not as high as years past.
I guess any team going to a new conference because that will shake things up
Pitt, Seton Hall, Marquette all struggled last year and have something to prove.
NC State, their coach was rumored to move up for some big name jobs but she has not won a lot yet at State.

These are teams that really need to prove something. Saying Notre Dame has something to prove is just not accurate. they want to win like every other good program but so what if they don't?

 

[HuskyMJ]

I forgot to add UNC they did not make the tournament and had a lot of talent. Virginia did not make the tournament and had some really nice pieces. Florida was on the bubble made the tournament but if they want to make the next step you could add them.

 

[doggydaddy]

It's not easy to take over for a legend. Pat was there for workouts just like she has always been. I listened to some interviews and one thing stood out to me. It was about Simmons the word Mature.

Until she gets the ball in her hand.

 

[UcMiami]

Until she gets the ball in her hand.

You are a bad doggy! Bad, Bad!

 

[alexrgct]

I agree with everything you just said. The OP listed teams and I only somewhat agreed with one-LSU. None of the others have something to prove they were very successful and could be next year but even if they aren't so what? If you make sweet 16, elite 8 final 4 any of those you had a fantastic season. Teams with something to prove are those that just did not do well or coach who could be gone soon. LSU lost in 2nd round but they have a new coach and still need time to build a program. My list:

Alabama- last place in SEC I don't know if they are on hot seat but it could be possible
Most of the PAC 10 not many teams got bids to the tournament and the talent level is not as high as years past.
I guess any team going to a new conference because that will shake things up
Pitt, Seton Hall, Marquette all struggled last year and have something to prove.
NC State, their coach was rumored to move up for some big name jobs but she has not won a lot yet at State.

These are teams that really need to prove something. Saying Notre Dame has something to prove is just not accurate. they want to win like every other good program but so what if they don't?

Again, "something to prove" is relative. Nikki Caldwell has something to prove because she makes 900K a year and is a hot name without a ton of tangible production. Tennessee is in a transition year with a million questions, with, empirically, expectations among the fanbase that they won't miss a beat. They could have a season that 98% of the programs in WCBB would be happy with, and it would raise questions because they are Tennessee. Kentucky is having a run of success- can they prove they are comfortable being the hunted. Notre Dame just finished a great two year run- are they ready to take the next step and be a perennial power as opposed to a sporadic one? Is Maryland a one-hit wonder or a team capable of contending on a regular basis? I bet Brenda sells recruits on the notion they can win championships at UMD. And Duke- can they prove they are legit contenders under Coach P? They took half a step back from Gail's heyday. Two of our regular Duke fan contributors "liked" my OP, so I guess they didn't take particular umbrage with that position.

Relativity- it's critical here. If UConn made the Sweet 16, or even the Final Four with the roster the Huskies have this year, hell no it's not a great season. If Duke or Maryland make the F4, they will have proved something. If Kentucky or Louisville make the Final Four, that would be a tremendous result. I tried to document what specifically each team I listed had to prove, and they were very different. And if they don't prove it, so what? So, they're open to criticism.

 

[HuskyMJ]

Again, "something to prove" is relative. Nikki Caldwell has something to prove because she makes 900K a year and is a hot name without a ton of tangible production. Tennessee is in a transition year with a million questions, with, empirically, expectations among the fanbase that they won't miss a beat. They could have a season that 98% of the programs in WCBB would be happy with, and it would raise questions because they are Tennessee. Kentucky is having a run of success- can they prove they are comfortable being the hunted. Notre Dame just finished a great two year run- are they ready to take the next step and be a perennial power as opposed to a sporadic one? Is Maryland a one-hit wonder or a team capable of contending on a regular basis? I bet Brenda sells recruits on the notion they can win championships at UMD. And Duke- can they prove they are legit contenders under Coach P? They took half a step back from Gail's heyday. Two of our regular Duke fan contributors "liked" my OP, so I guess they didn't take particular umbrage with that position.

Relativity- it's critical here. If UConn made the Sweet 16, or even the Final Four with the roster the Huskies have this year, hell no it's not a great season. If Duke or Maryland make the F4, they will have proved something. If Kentucky or Louisville make the Final Four, that would be a tremendous result. I tried to document what specifically each team I listed had to prove, and they were very different. And if they don't prove it, so what? So, they're open to criticism.

No problem and you should have replied to the posted I quoted since I basically agreed with that poster but then rambled on. He or she did a better job summing up their opinion which I just said Ia gree with them "Outside Shot" was the poster.

 

[tennfanatic00]

Tennessee is televised quite a bit, and I would disagree about Burdick and her finding a groove towards the end for the year. And certainly her stats in her last 12 games don't prove that out.

10 mins, 2 points, 5 rebounds
26 mins, 10 points, 7 rebounds
18 mins,10 points, 6 rebounds
22 mins, 4 points, 3 rebounds
12 mins,6 points,3 rebounds
15 mins, 4 points, 2 rebounds
7 mins,5 points,2 rebounds
9 mins,4 points,1 rebounds
15 mins,0 points,2 rebounds
8 mins,2 points,4 rebounds
5 mins,0 points,2 rebounds
3 mins,0 points,1 rebounds

She had 2 "groove" games in her last 12 with double digit scoring and over those 12 games she averaged 12.5 minutes, 3.9 points, and 3.1 rebounds.

Maybe extended minutes will allow her to find a groove and play to her potential.

I came away very impressed with her when watching her at the SEC tournament. I don't have those stats offhand, but she was much more comfortable on the court.

She's a distributer and a heady player with a consistent mid range jumper. I don't ever think she'll be First Team AA or anything, but she's a very valuable asset to the team.

 

[doggydaddy]

I came away very impressed with her when watching her at the SEC tournament. I don't have those stats offhand, but she was much more comfortable on the court.

She's a distributer and a heady player with a consistent mid range jumper. I don't ever think she'll be First Team AA or anything, but she's a very valuable asset to the team.

Stats don't say everything, but these were the 3 SEC tourney games.

15 mins, 4 points, 2 rebounds, 2-2 from the field, 0 assists, 2 TO's.
7 mins,5 points,2 rebounds, 1-2 from the field, 0 assists, 1 TO's.
9 mins,4 points,1 rebounds, 2-3 from the field, 0 assists, 0 TO's.

Good shooting. That's about it. Very impressed? You are easily impressed. Distributer? No assists?

 

[tennfanatic00]

Stats don't say everything, but these were the 3 SEC tourney games.

15 mins, 4 points, 2 rebounds, 2-2 from the field, 0 assists, 2 TO's.
7 mins,5 points,2 rebounds, 1-2 from the field, 0 assists, 1 TO's.
9 mins,4 points,1 rebounds, 2-3 from the field, 0 assists, 0 TO's.

Good shooting. That's about it. Very impressed? You are easily impressed. Distributer? No assists?

You're correct, stats do not say everything.

Rather than keep this going back and forth, let's just agree to disagree here.
I've seen a lot of her and think she's a player, you're not convinced and have seen not much of her. We'll fix that this year.

Obviously her playing time will go up significantly this year, so it's put up or shut up time.

 

[Coler]

I don't agree with the Louisville overachieved argument. I think they had/have a roster as "talented" or more so than most. Last year's team had:
G Schimmel- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G Smith- Top 5 recruit by ESPN
G/F Hammond- Top 15 recruit by ESPN
F Vails- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report
F Taylor- Top 20 recruit by All Star Girls Report

How many other schools, not named UConn, Tenn or Duke could claim 5 recruits of that status? I just don't buy that Louisville overachieved. Did they lose players to injury? Yes. However, their roster was stacked!

Rutgers can.

G Canty- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G/F Laney- Top 20 recruit by ESPN
G Richardson- Top 20 recruit by ESPN
F/C Oliver- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
C Hollivay- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G/F Copper- Top 20 recruit by ESPN

 

[VAMike23]

Rutgers can.

G Canty- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G/F Laney- Top 20 recruit by ESPN
G Richardson- Top 20 recruit by ESPN
F/C Oliver- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
C Hollivay- Top 10 recruit by ESPN
G/F Copper- Top 20 recruit by ESPN

I thought that Laney was Top 10, or close to it?