Taliek Brown a valuable resource to current UConn point guard Gilbert

[ctchamps]

There was a guy named Toby Wes who blasted him along with many others. It was relentless. He was a top ranked player in HS who never made an All America team in college. He did get a degree, won a title and played ball around the world for a few years. Pretty good life over all I would say.

It was brutal. On par with Jerome Dyson. The treatment of CV is mild by comparison.

He played through turf toe and the murder of his best friend one year but the Boneyard jumped all over him for his play.

The tough as nails guys that JC valued are the type of players posters in the forum are most uncomfortable with as a general rule. The "out of control" play is focused by our lenses. To be clear I'm not supporting out of control play. Those players would have been better/be better if they could eliminate that type of play. I just think that in general people in this forum, past and present, are the type of people who value/insist on controlled behavior and as a result we over emphasize the problem.

 

[Waquoit]

He went from taking .6 per game as a junior to .1 per game as a senior.

That's a 600% reduction isn't it? That's not nothing considering he only made 1 each year.

 

[tentoes4rings]

The Taliek bashing was definitely excessive. He was thrust into heavy minutes as a freshman on a bad team but still had 5 APG. He played great D, had a 2.1-1 assist to turnover ratio for his career and led his teams to a 103-35 record vs super tough Big East competition. His career culminated in a national championship. He was an offensively challenged player who couldn’t shoot but was a warrior and a winner. I’m so happy he’s back where he belongs, we were lucky to have him as a player and are lucky to have him back in the program.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

He went from taking .6 per game as a junior to .1 per game as a senior. That's one less 3pt shot every two games.

In fairness to him, the 03-04 team had about 75 guys who were solid 3-point shooters, they didn't need Taliek to do that. He was the team's best ballhandler in transition and in half-court situations and was needed to be the leader in that role.

 

[intlzncster]

That's a 600% reduction isn't it? That's not nothing considering he only made 1 each year.

% reduction isn't exactly useful the smaller sample you get. We're talking about a handful of shots over a larger number of games. In other words, these weren't outcome affecting numbers.

Reality, 1) Taliek just started being smarter with the ball. Learned how to use change of speed and hesitation, to avoid driving directly into the trees. 2) the players around him got better and better -- probably the biggest thing.

His A/T ratio is an important difference imo. He went from 1.5, to 2.0 to 2.7. In addition, he almost doubled his rebounding numbers Jr to Sr year.

 

[Huskybass]

It was brutal. On par with Jerome Dyson. The treatment of CV is mild by comparison.

He played through turf toe and the murder of his best friend one year but the Boneyard jumped all over him for his play.

The tough as nails guys that JC valued are the type of players posters in the forum are most uncomfortable with as a general rule. The "out of control" play is focused by our lenses. To be clear I'm not supporting out of control play. Those players would have been better/be better if they could eliminate that type of play. I just think that in general people in this forum, past and present, are the type of people who value/insist on controlled behavior and as a result we over emphasize the problem.

Funny you bring up Dyson. I got to see him play a lot, both in a UConn uniform and at the Greater Hartford Pro Am. Great athlete, always played hard. I liked him. But he was missing that "winning" quality of some sort, even in the Pro Am setting. For example, he may score 42 points and have 6 dunks, but at crunch time he gets stripped driving the lane and then on the next possession he misses a three and his team loses by 2 or 3.

I think people felt a similar way about AG and/or CV when they would hoist up a long, quick three or drive into the trees regularly. Fortunately AG and CV both seem to "get it" now and are playing really well by playing within themselves. As nice a progression to see as it was with Adams right out of the gate this season.

 

[tentoes4rings]

There’s a level of accountability now that wasn’t there previously. The past few years, players could take ill advised shots without being accountable. As we saw last game, when Dan Hurley immediately re-inserted the starters, guys will be held accountable for poor play. Dan Hurley overtly had AG’s back after the Xavier game, but I suspect he was on him behind the scenes. There doesn’t seem to be any coincidence why AG and CV are starting to play within their abilities.

 

[ctchamps]

Funny you bring up Dyson. I got to see him play a lot, both in a UConn uniform and at the Greater Hartford Pro Am. Great athlete, always played hard. I liked him. But he was missing that "winning" quality of some sort, even in the Pro Am setting. For example, he may score 42 points and have 6 dunks, but at crunch time he gets stripped driving the lane and then on the next possession he misses a three and his team loses by 2 or 3.

I think people felt a similar way about AG and/or CV when they would hoist up a long, quick three or drive into the trees regularly. Fortunately AG and CV both seem to "get it" now and are playing really well by playing within themselves. As nice a progression to see as it was with Adams right out of the gate this season.

It’s always a matter of perspective. How much weight do we assign individual events relative to a set of events.

For instance in that Pro Am game what would be the outcome if JD doesn’t play in those games? How much would the absence of his contributions matter? Could they have been made up by other players?

I get upset when I see a quick shot or a drive that gets blocked. I also consider the number of plays that CV and Al do that puts the team in a position to win. In CV’s case the number of contributions far outweighs his negative plays imo. And he makes many of the plays I feel he shouldn’t be making. How do I know this. Because of the number of times I shout for him to not take them only to be proven wrong. So I’m not unbiased in the heat of the moment.

I‘ve been wanting to point out that this is really the first year Al is the primary player playing point. Last year Jalen played the majority of minutes at that position or Al felt the need to defer to him. It’s hard to factor this in considering how long he’s been in the program and I know some people, seeing this statement, will feel I’m making excuses for the kid. Nonetheless for me it’s a factor.

 

[ctchamps]

There’s a level of accountability now that wasn’t there previously. The past few years, players could take ill advised shots without being accountable. As we saw last game, when Dan Hurley immediately re-inserted the starters, guys will be held accountable for poor play. Dan Hurley overtly had AG’s back after the Xavier game, but I suspect he was on him behind the scenes. There doesn’t seem to be any coincidence why AG and CV are starting to play within their abilities.

Part of the non accountability was due to no alternative options and no depth.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Your memory is faulty, Taliek had better height and great upper body strength that allowed him to absorb contact and finish well around the rim. Outside shooting was his Achilles heel but going to the rim was not a problem,

To my memory, some of the strongest negative criticism came when he would go right into the lane and not go up or through, but instead kind of dead end there. True, he was not small and lost, and he did not go for circus shots that had no chance, but he could get seemingly clogged in the middle. The upper body strength, yes. And, as the season closed he was a notably more reliable free throw shooter.

I think people felt a similar way about AG and/or CV [as with Dyson] when they would hoist up a long, quick three or drive into the trees regularly. Fortunately AG and CV both seem to "get it" now and are playing really well by playing within themselves. As nice a progression to see as it was with Adams right out of the gate this season.

Dyson's Senior year had brutal moments some of which were his own doing, and some because he was asked to do too much without the same level of talent as the year before. This has stayed with me.

I feared that Boat might suffer a similar fate, and that he might get mercilessly trashed. On balance, I think posters here recognized that he couldn't be superhuman, and he didn't look as bad when he couldn't pull it off.

I had similar thoughts last year with Jalen. Mixed results, but I still had, "Please don't become Jerome" thoughts.

Up through Xavier, the discussion here was tilting that way regarding CV and Al. I am very thankful to be watching the supporting cast growing up around them; hearing a head coach offer strong defense of his players and clear full-staff coaching to noticeably address weaknesses; and, most importantly, winning, which soothes the savage impulse in some of us.

 

[ucp990411]

It was a problem in that NCAA game he blew by hogging the ball and sticking it into rim on a futile layup attempt for a crucial turnover. Taliek shot too much for three years. His best advice for the guards is shoot less

I believe it was Marcus White who took that shot

 

[tentoes4rings]

Part of the non accountability was due to no alternative options and no depth.

I think that was definitely the case last year. I was going to add that caveat regarding last season because Hurley really didn’t have other options.

 

[ctchamps]

I think that was definitely the case last year. I was going to add that caveat regarding last season because Hurley really didn’t have other options.

It was obvious to me what you intended but stated it just in case it wasn’t obvious to others.

 

[Spaceman213J]

It was obvious to me what you intended but stated it just in case it wasn’t obvious to others.

Also, the first handful of games, he wasn't finishing at all and missing half of his free throws. Last year, AG was finishing around the rim at a higher rate than early this year.

 

[intlzncster]

To my memory, some of the strongest negative criticism came when he would go right into the lane and not go up or through, but instead kind of dead end there. True, he was not small and lost, and he did not go for circus shots that had no chance, but he could get seemingly clogged in the middle. The upper body strength, yes. And, as the season closed he was a notably more reliable free throw shooter.


Dyson's Senior year had brutal moments some of which were his own doing, and some because he was asked to do too much without the same level of talent as the year before. This has stayed with me.

I feared that Boat might suffer a similar fate, and that he might get mercilessly trashed. On balance, I think posters here recognized that he couldn't be superhuman, and he didn't look as bad when he couldn't pull it off.

I had similar thoughts last year with Jalen. Mixed results, but I still had, "Please don't become Jerome" thoughts.

Up through Xavier, the discussion here was tilting that way regarding CV and Al. I am very thankful to be watching the supporting cast growing up around them; hearing a head coach offer strong defense of his players and clear full-staff coaching to noticeably address weaknesses; and, most importantly, winning, which soothes the savage impulse in some of us.

Boat got a pass because he's universally acknowledged as being a massive part of banner #4.

 

[intlzncster]

I believe it was Marcus White who took that shot

Yep, vs Texas Elite 8 2003.

 

[Waquoit]

Yep, vs Texas Elite 8 2003.

Yeah I think you guys are right, but there was also a brutal lay-up that never got to the rim late.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Boat got a pass because he's universally acknowledged as being a massive part of banner #4.

As did Kemba for being the reason for banner #3.

 

[Waquoit]

Boat got a pass because he's universally acknowledged as being a massive part of banner #4.

And because he didn't have a Boat of his covering his back.

 

[Sick Puppy]

As I remember, Talik had a propensity, like the Roadrunner-Coyote cartoons, to charge the basket and disappear in the dust cloud of bigs. Like AG.

Three on one team: Ricky M., KEA, Rash Jones. One of the most memorable moments for me, homeboy Rash tripping up Langdon when the buzzer sounded and we won the Duke Invitational. Never gets old:

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Yeah I think you guys are right, but there was also a brutal lay-up that never got to the rim late.

Sounds about right, but, like like you (right?), I no longer care.

And BTW, to borrow from another thread, I could support putting him on the the UConn Mt Rushmore for his smile alone.

 

[Huskybass]

I may have shared this with the Boneyard before and if so, I apologize.

From the time my son was very young I had him following UConn sports as both my wife and I graduated from UConn. My son was born in August of 2000 and shortly before his 4th birthday I brought him up to UConn to see the campus for the first time. I'm guessing it was late June or July, just a couple of months after UConn had won their second national championship. We wandered into gampel and the only two people inside were Taliek and what looked to be a team manager. Taliek was shooting outside shots (well I might add) and the team manager was rebounding for him. we sat about 10 rows off the floor and watched and every now and then my son would say something like "Carter do it". Taliek looked over a few times and I thought he was annoyed with us, however, after he finished his workout he came over to us and asked Carter to come out on the court with him. Taliek handed Carter a basketball and brought him over to the basket and lifted him up to the rim and Carter dunked the ball for his first basket ever on a 10-foot hoop.

It's been over 15 years and my son is now in his second year of college but this thread certainly brought back a great memory. I have a Kemba Walker story that's kind of similar but I will save that for another day.

 

[Waquoit]

Sounds about right, but, like like you (right?), I no longer care.

I don't care as far as Taliek goes. He has a ring that he deserves as much as anyone on the team. My point is that he was a much better player as a senior than he was the rest of his career because his game matured. He wasn't just trying to "make a play", he was making the right play. I don't care about next year yet, I think we can be really good this year. But we need our upper class guards to show the same growth Taliek showed as a senior.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I don't care as far as Taliek goes. He has a ring that he deserves as much as anyone on the team. My point is that he was a much better player as a senior than he was the rest of his career because his game matured. He wasn't just trying to "make a play", he was making the right play. I don't care about next year yet, I think we can be really good this year. But we need our upper class guards to show the same growth Taliek showed as a senior.

No disagreement at all.

 

[JB75]

Alterique turns 23 next October. That's going to certainly play a role in his future plans. Cole is quite a scorer and averaged 6.8 assists last season. I am not at all worried about the PG position with Cole and Gaffney, who will develop.

Cole Bouk Jackson Akok and Carlton looks like a great lineup to me.

Pinning a lot on Cole. He can’t play all 40mins.

 

[intlzncster]

I may have shared this with the Boneyard before and if so, I apologize.

From the time my son was very young I had him following UConn sports as both my wife and I graduated from UConn. My son was born in August of 2000 and shortly before his 4th birthday I brought him up to UConn to see the campus for the first time. I'm guessing it was late June or July, just a couple of months after UConn had won their second national championship. We wandered into gampel and the only two people inside were Taliek and what looked to be a team manager. Taliek was shooting outside shots (well I might add) and the team manager was rebounding for him. we sat about 10 rows off the floor and watched and every now and then my son would say something like "Carter do it". Taliek looked over a few times and I thought he was annoyed with us, however, after he finished his workout he came over to us and asked Carter to come out on the court with him. Taliek handed Carter a basketball and brought him over to the basket and lifted him up to the rim and Carter dunked the ball for his first basket ever on a 10-foot hoop.

It's been over 15 years and my son is now in his second year of college but this thread certainly brought back a great memory. I have a Kemba Walker story that's kind of similar but I will save that for another day.

Great story.

 

[Huskybass]

Pinning a lot on Cole. He can’t play all 40mins.

I think you are overlooking Gaffney. He should be plenty good enough to average 10-15 minutes a game as a Soph. And I wouldn't be shocked to see Bouk playing on the ball with Cole off the ball a little next season as well. I am far more concerned with rebounding for next year than I am point guard play.

 

[Caronimo]

Taliek was criticized as much (possibly more) as any other UConn pg in history. Although he was sooo fast and a great PG and defender, people bashed his poor shooting and free throws. I know this sort of changed with the 2004 rub, but man he took some heat. Perhaps he can be a nice mentor to help AG deal with our crazy fan base.

 

[JB75]

I think you are overlooking Gaffney. He should be plenty good enough to average 10-15 minutes a game as a Soph. And I wouldn't be shocked to see Bouk playing on the ball with Cole off the ball a little next season as well. I am far more concerned with rebounding for next year than I am point guard play.

Not to belabor the back and forth but we ll basically have Cole and gaffney( who hasn’t showed much) at point. rebounding wise we ll have Ferguson akok Carlton springs and Whalley. Hope gaffney really improves next year but we re gonna miss AG more than we kno it next year. Plus he’s really starting to play well. Imagine how good we’ll be if he comes back ? Scary good

 

[pj]

I think you are overlooking Gaffney. He should be plenty good enough to average 10-15 minutes a game as a Soph. And I wouldn't be shocked to see Bouk playing on the ball with Cole off the ball a little next season as well. I am far more concerned with rebounding for next year than I am point guard play.

Gaffney will average 10-15 mpg as a freshman. He's averaging 10.6 mpg right now and a bunch of those he had a bad ankle.