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Syracuse assistant

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Not quite accurate. They did discover something on Sandusky. The big question was why the DA did not proceed with the case, why he went missing several years later and why Sandusky "retired" in 1999.

It all depends on what is meant by "nothing." They found no evidence of molestation against Fine. But do they have evidence of his traveling with Davis. That might have similarity with where the police were in 1998 with Sandusky. In 1998, Sandusky was warned not to shower with children by PA child protection services. That's why they let him go. The difference may be as simple as Sandusky's statement, "I should be dead." That's the only incriminating comment.
 
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It all depends on what is meant by "nothing." They found no evidence of molestation against Fine. But do they have evidence of his traveling with Davis. That might have similarity with where the police were in 1998 with Sandusky. In 1998, Sandusky was warned not to shower with children by PA child protection services. That's why they let him go. The difference may be as simple as Sandusky's statement, "I should be dead." That's the only incriminating comment.
he also admitted he did something wrong, and wanted forgiveness.
 

ctchamps

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It all depends on what is meant by "nothing." They found no evidence of molestation against Fine. But do they have evidence of his traveling with Davis. That might have similarity with where the police were in 1998 with Sandusky. In 1998, Sandusky was warned not to shower with children by PA child protection services. That's why they let him go. The difference may be as simple as Sandusky's statement, "I should be dead." That's the only incriminating comment.
There will be a lot of guilty people in this world for taking kids somewhere without the child's parent.

Not everyone offering charitable trips for kids can afford to put kids up in their own room. So we are going in the polar opposite direction and incriminating anyone who has done a good, charitable deed as having ulterior predatory motives. It's Salem, Mass. again.

I thought the difference in 98, was a sting operation arranged by the police ( I assume warrants were given) which provided enough evidence to begin a formal investigation. The evidence was an admittance by Sandusky of inappropriate touching followed by the comment "I should be dead." I thought he denied any other activity including taking a shower with the boy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

These cases are hard to prove. Two people were eyewitnesses to Sandusky's acts and those witnesses are a big difference between his situation and Coach Fine's situation. This doesn't mean Fine is innocent or guilty. Just a big difference in the situation regarding current evidence. Until something more substantive develops around Fine we would be better served on reserving judgement and preventing our emotions over Sandusky from bleeding into the Fine situation. There will be an opportunity to place our hatred if more evidence develops implicating Fine. Otherwise we could be victimizing an innocent man.
 
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Wouldn't it be more wise for Boeheim to keep quiet now even on the slightest chance he is wrong? Don't the two statements below already make Boeheim look silly?

"Boeheim added: "Why wouldn't he come to the police (first this time)? Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money. That is what I believe. You want to put that on the air? Put that on the air.""

Yet, "Kevin Quinn, Syracuse's senior vice president for public affairs, issued a statement on behalf of the school: "In 2005, Syracuse University was contacted by an adult male who told us that he had reported to the Syracuse City Police that he had been subjected to inappropriate contact by an associate men's basketball coach. The alleged activity took place in the 1980's and 1990's. We were informed by the complainant that the Syracuse City Police had declined to pursue the matter because the statute of limitations had expired."

Legally sure, Boeheim would be better off keeping quiet - although that hasn't done much to help Paterno or McQueary. But also in contrast to that situation, Boeheim seems to be fully aware, acknowledges an investigation and his role in that AND the guy is someone he still has on staff. Silence could be interpreted as sign of guilt or CYA and instead Boeheim goes to bat for his assistant. I think you have to respect that even if it turns out Fine duped everyone all these years (and personally at this point partially BECAUSE of Boeheim's comments I lean towards presuming innocence).
 
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There will be a lot of guilty people in this world for taking kids somewhere without the child's parent.

Not everyone offering charitable trips for kids can afford to put kids up in their own room. So we are going in the polar opposite direction and incriminating anyone who has done a good, charitable deed as having ulterior predatory motives. It's Salem, Mass. again.

I thought the difference in 98, was a sting operation arranged by the police ( I assume warrants were given) which provided enough evidence to begin a formal investigation. The evidence was an admittance by Sandusky of inappropriate touching followed by the comment "I should be dead." I thought he denied any other activity including taking a shower with the boy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

These cases are hard to prove. Two people were eyewitnesses to Sandusky's acts and those witnesses are a big difference between his situation and Coach Fine's situation. This doesn't mean Fine is innocent or guilty. Just a big difference in the situation regarding current evidence. Until something more substantive develops around Fine we would be better served on reserving judgement and preventing our emotions over Sandusky from bleeding into the Fine situation. There will be an opportunity to place our hatred if more evidence develops implicating Fine. Otherwise we could be victimizing an innocent man.

I'm just talking about 1998. Not the other cases. In 1998, there were no witnesses other than the child. Sandusky admitted to being in the shower with the kid and giving him a hug. Obviously, what happened in 2002 goes far far beyond the current claims against Fine.
 
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There will be a lot of guilty people in this world for taking kids somewhere without the child's parent.

Also, I wasn't talking about guilt. I wasn't saying that Fine = Sandusky. I was referring to why Sandusky might not have been charged in 1998. They had him in a shower with a child.
 

ctchamps

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Also, I wasn't talking about guilt. I wasn't saying that Fine = Sandusky. I was referring to why Sandusky might not have been charged in 1998. They had him in a shower with a child.
On this point I wasn't referring to you, but the board in general. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Not to make lite of the situation in any way nor to presume innocence or guilt or to dismiss the seriousness of the accusations, but it certainly puts into perspective some of the things the NCAA worries about ie: plane tickets and some extra text messages.
 

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If this kid stayed in the same room as Fine on all these raod trips alone then there is something seriously wrong with the situation. I guess that needs to be proven. The kid wasn't traveling with his family.

If a ball boy was travelling with the team on a road trip, where would he typically stay? His own room? With the players?
 
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This whole thing sickens me and I'm afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg. Think about it. The profession and hobby (unpaid) of coaching children from elementary to even college age, has to be a magnet for sexual predators.

It's one way these sick bastards (say those words like Adam Sandler for full effect :)) can easily gain access to young people. Easy access to naked young people. Easy way to worm their way into unhealthy dependent relationships with those who have some sort of parental void. Easy way to find ways to be along with young people since most people trust these predators. Sometimes the parents/guardians don't even realize their children are alone with them. I wonder how often they think they kids are practicing or with other kids along with the coach.

Now I'm not saying there's a large percentage of pedophiles in the coaching world, but that this world is huge when you consider it runs from volunteers coaching elementary school age children all the way to college. Many who coach young people have a special love for young people. For most it's a healthy love, but for others it crosses over to their sexual desires, need to control and in some cases dominate and abuse.

Hopefully all of us here who are part of the Boneyard community are like me in that it blows my mind that there are people who would even think about taking advantage of a young person. It's so selfish and so evil, that anyone who is caught and convicted should never be let back into the general population.

Sorry to go on again about this topic. I wish it would just go away, but I think it's just going to get worse before it gets better. Hopefully all this attention in the news will help people to be more vigilant for these predators and flush more of them out. It's sad by doing so, the victims have to relive what happened to them, plus the social unease it causes them once those around them know what happened to them. The one silver lining for them is in the eyes of many they are the strong ones and heroes for stepping up and outing these monsters. For those who weren't victims but witnesses or those receiving reports of abuse who chose to brush it under the rug, I have no sympathy whatsoever. With that said, I'm not judging those victims who couldn't and can't bring themselves to reporting what happened to them. I have to admit I'm conflicted about this aspect of the issue. On one hand how can I expect someone to have to relive their pain and the outcome of coming forward. On the other hand, it is the silence of the victims that allows these predators to rack up victim after victim. What could be done to fix this?

Maybe there has been a push for more education on this with parents and maybe even children. It's a slippery slope when you have, say, the public schools warn kids about pedophile predictors, but maybe the problem is big enough to add that to one of their programs if it's not already being discussed. They could send an information package to the parents to inform them on both what they need to know plus sign a waver for those kids who they don't want to be present for that discussion. The problem with having a waver, is kids who are being abused by a parent or guardian could end up being prevented from getting this education. I believe a large percentage of this type of abuse takes place with family members. Also more training in this area for teachers from elementary school through high school. And along with the education some vehicle, may it be anonymous or not, for victims and witnesses to report what had happened. If it's anonymous, further follow-up should be handled internally first with some sort of investigation. Bringing anonymous reports to the police can ruin a person's life who is falsely accused. It's purpose would be to discretely investigate if there is something happening and once facts are disclosed then take it to the authorities. Even when it's not anonymous, false accusations usually ruin or at least have a huge negative impact on the accused.

So how young do you start this type of education and reporting process? IMO, education, awareness and vehicles for reporting will go a long way.

I bet it's a little tougher to get away with this sort of stuff now than it was 10 years ago. After this cycle of news stories ends, I'm sure it will be yet even tougher. Since these are crimes against victims who are often unable to protect themselves, it would seem there is a dire need for more protective measures that should be implemented on a national scale.
 
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If a ball boy was travelling with the team on a road trip, where would he typically stay? His own room? With the players?
That is the thing. Ball boys don't travel with the team. Generally they are local kids that go to home games. They aren';t going to Hawaii and the Final Four with the team.
 
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That is a good point Vuce. Sort of thought of that myself. How is a ballboy going on road trips with the team? Do they need their own ballboy on the road and at the final4. Even major league teams don't take their batboys on the road and they have more of a job then a college ballboy. Strange to me. No matter what they can not be happy in Syracuse especially coming on the heels of PSU.
 
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I watched the interview on ESPN OTL and read a few posts on the 'Cuse board. This guy sounds like a tweaker who has no options in life and I believe Fine will be exonerated. Then the accuser needs to go to jail and heads will roll at ESPN.

At this point Im very curious to see what happens at ESPN will the all the Syracuse alumni employed there. Will Syracuse grads stop applying for jobs there? Will some of the on air talent ESPN go to CBS, CNN etc...?
 

RS9999X

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This whole thing sickens me and I'm afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg. Think about it. The profession and hobby (unpaid) of coaching children from elementary to even college age, has to be a magnet for sexual predators.
.

One thing was proven during the Catholic Church scandals: The rate of incident wasn't any higher in the Catholic Church than in the general population.

That suggests a huge problem still to be outed.

There are documens out there on the ways and means organizations go to protect their own.

In education its the "go away quietly and we'll say nothing" agreements to prevent lawsuits when there are 'accusations' and rumors.

In the Protestant Clergy it's the quiet settlement. Guys like Fine go to the clergy member and the lawyers work out a settlement. The clergy member is insured by a private self-insurance board for Protestant Ministers that doesn't report the individual settlements -- just the aggregate award settlements in their yearly filings. The clergy hides behind confidentiality agreements to protect the victim which in fact are drawn up by the predator's attorney to prevent public disclosure.r

My favorite are the pedophile baby doctors. This one with almost 500 victims was outed but got out of dodge with a professional courtesy mild warning and went to practice elsewhere.

 

sdhusky

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I watched the interview on ESPN OTL and read a few posts on the 'Cuse board. This guy sounds like a tweaker who has no options in life and I believe Fine will be exonerated.

Maybe. If the guy was molested as a child, how surprising is it that he has no options in life right now?
 
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When the kid is 12 or 15, thats one thing. But if he says it lasted until he was well into his 20's, I'd consider him to be a willing participant as an adult. I have a hard time buying into Davis' story for some reason. When you are 22, 23, 24 years old shouldn't you be capable of staying away from your "bad actor"? Maybe I just want to believe that the coach is innocent? On the other hand, I believe that those sort of thing is probably far more widespread than many of us ever realized.
 
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When the kid is 12 or 15, thats one thing. But if he says it lasted until he was well into his 20's, I'd consider him to be a willing participant as an adult. I have a hard time buying into Davis' story for some reason. When you are 22, 23, 24 years old shouldn't you be capable of staying away from your "bad actor"? Maybe I just want to believe that the coach is innocent? On the other hand, I believe that those sort of thing is probably far more widespread than many of us ever realized.

His story would certainly be more plausible to the general public if he had said the abuse ended long before he turned 27.
 
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The accusations look less and less credible:

Davis' mother, Cathy Pitts, said Thursday she didn't know about any of the allegations until he did an interview with ESPN in 2003.

She said when Davis was young, he "was with Bernie Fine quite a bit." She said he traveled with the team extensively, though she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn't like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans.

The guy also claimed Fine molested him in Maui.
 
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The accusations look less and less credible:

Davis' mother, Cathy Pitts, said Thursday she didn't know about any of the allegations until he did an interview with ESPN in 2003.

She said when Davis was young, he "was with Bernie Fine quite a bit." She said he traveled with the team extensively, though she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn't like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans.

The guy also claimed Fine molested him in Maui.

Except I read today that there were both pictures and video of him sitting in front of David Robinson at the 87 Final Four, so he was apparently there. Even if he didn't like to fly, or whatever.
 
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Except I read today that there were both pictures and video of him sitting in front of David Robinson at the 87 Final Four, so he was apparently there. Even if he didn't like to fly, or whatever.

Where did you read that?
 
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If this "victim" is lying, throw him in jail. If not, throw Fine and Boeheim in jail.

I find it astonishing that Boeheim is all in with his chips - unwavering support for his assistant coach just hours after the story broke. He is going to look horrible if any of this proves to be true.
 
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Well. I've always liked JB. Seems like a right guy to me. Always has.
He's either all in because he believes it or he's all in because he knows there is no fallback position, so why not unload all the ammo?
I think he skates on this one, unless something much more substantial emerges.
To the extent that this guy was molesting kids, it's not nearly as seemly as the PSU.
As for the "abuse" continuing into the 20s.
IMO, after a certain age, if there's no abuse/threat/restraint involved, it's no longer abuse. The age might be different for different people.
I'm thinking by 17 or somewhere in there most people understand basic right and wrong and know what they want and don't want.
 

RS9999X

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I find it astonishing that Boeheim is all in with his chips - unwavering support for his assistant coach just hours after the story broke. He is going to look horrible if any of this proves to be true.

I think Boeheim knows if it was well investigated and lacks cred.

"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did ... there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

Bobby Davis's Mother isn't exactly proud of the whole thing as it makes her look like a stupid ignorant POS if Davis was molested just a fraction of the number of times he claimed.

Cathy Pitts added that she was unaware he was talking about this in recent days. "I really think he wants to be left alone," she said.
 
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This is so sad. I listened to Tim Welsch say he roomed with Fine on away trips. He did say the young man did come to away games, but fine was there with his wife. I hope the kid is lying, but where there is smoke there's fire. I am a little skeptical that JB comments that the he doesn't remember the young man, and Welsch said he does and the kid was quite visible. Predators are in every walk of life we need to protect our young people at all costs.
 
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