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Syracuse assistant

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So you agree, its ridiculous that people are crucified prior to conviction. If you are looking to the Italian justice system to bolster your argument you are clearly on shaky ground.

LOL, you said "we are the only civilized nation on earth blah blah blah"

I point out another country that had the same sensationalist Stop, and you backpedal and move the goal posts.
 
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Also - Rebekah Brooks.

And I don't even pay that much attention to international news.
 

CAHUSKY

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LOL, you said "we are the only civilized nation on earth blah blah blah"

I point out another country that had the same sensationalist Stop, and you backpedal and move the goal posts.

agreed, I was incorrect in my follow up response to indicate we were the ONLY country to do this. In my prior post I was more accurte. (see my initial post below)

"America is a peculiar country. We proclaim "innocent until proven guilty" yet allow ESPN and every other national news outlet to run Bernie Fine's image and basically proclaim him a child molester without one scintilla of evidence. Its relatively shocking that we are one of the only civilized nations in the world that does this"
 

CL82

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Is he denying he ever saw Davis in bed in Fine's hotel room?
I have not heard this part of the accusation. In fact SNY said that the alleged victim claims that Boeheim did NOT know about it.

It is easy to equate this with what seems to have happened at Penn St. Easy, and wrong. Let's let the facts roll out before we assume that the 'cuse is guilty of a cover up or even turning a blind eyd. We'll know soon enough.

On edit: Here is the quote from the ESPN article:

Davis said Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim saw him in Fine's hotel room on several of those road trips, but Davis said he never told Boeheim about the alleged abuse.

"Boeheim saw me with Bernie all the time in the hotel rooms, on road trips," Davis said. "He'd come in, and see me laying in the bed, kind of glance at me like, 'What are you doing here?' But he wouldn't say that. He'd just scowl. And I would look at him like, I'd be nervous. I felt embarrassed 'cause I felt stupid that I'm there. I'm not supposed to be here. I know it, and Boeheim's not stupid."

Here is Boeheim's response:

"I know this kid, but I never saw him in any rooms or anything," Boeheim told ESPN. "It is a bunch of a thousand lies that he has told. You don't think it is a little funny that his cousin (relative) is coming forward?
"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did ... there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

Gotta love Jimmy B. He's not backing off one bit.

"We spoke to the people (Davis) asked the university to talk to," Boeheim said. "Not one person would corroborate his story."
Boeheim added: "Why wouldn't he come to the police (first this time)? Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money. That is what I believe. You want to put that on the air? Put that on the air."

I hope this is just the kid trying get some cash out of the university. If it's not, Boeheim's quote will come back to haunt him.
 
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Here's Boeheim's statement:

"This matter was fully investigated by the University in 2005 and it was determined that the allegations were unfounded. I have known Bernie Fine for more than 40 years. I have never seen or witnessed anything to suggest that he would been involved in any of the activities alleged. Had I seen or suspected anything, I would have taken action. Bernie has my full support."
Syracuse placed Fine on administrative leave Thursday night.
 

CAHUSKY

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LOL, you said "we are the only civilized nation on earth blah blah blah"

I point out another country that had the same sensationalist Stop, and you backpedal and move the goal posts.
By the way, are you sure the Knox case was broadcast inside Italy? It was clearly all over the news in America (who peculiarly releases the names of the accused) but I don't know if it was in Italy or not. I assume that it was, but I actually don't know if thats the case. Your post indicates it was so I look to you for clarity.
 
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By the way, are you sure the Knox case was broadcast inside Italy? It was clearly all over the news in America (who peculiarly releases the names of the accused) but I don't know if it was in Italy or not. I assume that it was, but I actually don't know if thats the case. Your post indicates it was so I look to you for clarity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher
The murder and subsequent events, especially Knox's arrest and trial, received worldwide press coverage, often in the form of salacious tabloid reporting, particularly in Italy and England. Some observers criticized the media for not describing the case accurately and dispassionately, thus making wrongful convictions more likely to occur[not verified in body][3].
 

uconnbaseball

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If this "victim" is lying, throw him in jail. If not, throw Fine and Boeheim in jail.
 

CAHUSKY

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher
The murder and subsequent events, especially Knox's arrest and trial, received worldwide press coverage, often in the form of salacious tabloid reporting, particularly in Italy and England. Some observers criticized the media for not describing the case accurately and dispassionately, thus making wrongful convictions more likely to occur[not verified in body][3].
Interestingly,had the crime occured in England, it would have received virtually no press coverage as criminal defendents are protected from the media. Only recently have they even allowed factual information regarding the arrest to be published. Any further pre-trial media is prohibited.[/
 
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Interesting approach taken by Boeheim. He must know something about this accuser to speak so definitively. He is 100% putting his reputation on the line in saying that this is "one of a thousand lies" from this kid and if it is found out that the kid was molested, it is going to get realllly ugly for him.

On the other hand, ESPN really went out on a limb with this sketchy seeming case. Fine already been investigated by the school, the local paper, and even ESPN but there was no one to back up the story but now, over 5 years later, the victims relative comes forward and alleges Fine molested him as well. This seems to be flimsy evidence to completely ruin a man's reputation. Either Boeheim or ESPN will end up looking horrible.
 
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ESPN will not end up looking bad because they will never admit that they made a mistake. They ruined a guys life based on what exactly? He will never be able to work again.
 

Edward Sargent

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This is such a misnomer that I see repeated everywhere and it's so wrong.

The innocent until proven guilty applies to courts. Where both Jerry Sandusky and Bernie Fine (assuming any charges are even brought against him - statute of limitations and all) WILL be innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. That is their Constitutional right and you can be assured they will be afforded it.

There is no requirement that the public feel one way or the other. There's no need for your company to wait in putting you on leave or firing you (ask Joe Paterno). If you really think the United States is the only country to do this, and that history of all nations isn't full of such scenarios, I don't know what to tell ya.
Did we have any scintilla that Jerry Sandusky did what he did before it came out in the press?
 

Edward Sargent

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There was an investigation of Bernie Fine in 2005 by the University that found nothing. There were multiple investigations of Jerry Sandusky from 1998 forward that found nothing. OJ Simpson was innocent. Take all those things together mix them up in your mind and then ask in ESPN was right to run the story
 

nelsonmuntz

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Interesting approach taken by Boeheim. He must know something about this accuser to speak so definitively. He is 100% putting his reputation on the line in saying that this is "one of a thousand lies" from this kid and if it is found out that the kid was molested, it is going to get realllly ugly for him.

On the other hand, ESPN really went out on a limb with this sketchy seeming case. Fine already been investigated by the school, the local paper, and even ESPN but there was no one to back up the story but now, over 5 years later, the victims relative comes forward and alleges Fine molested him as well. This seems to be flimsy evidence to completely ruin a man's reputation. Either Boeheim or ESPN will end up looking horrible.

The fact that many other potential victims were questioned and denied any bad acts by Fine, but now a relative shows up, is really, really damning of the accuser. As I read more on this, I still think there is a reasonably high probability that Fine and Davis had a relationship of some kind that ended badly and Davis lashed out. I don't get the unsubstantiated accusations that look like lies. Why would he do that? It is possible that Fine's relationship with Davis started early enough to be a crime in and of itself, although there is apparently a statute of limitations problem with it.
 
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Now it is a stretch to go jump to molestation but does anyone think it is strange for a 50+ year old man to take a 10 or 11 year old boy to Hawaii twice, the Final Four, Big East Tourney? I can see if it was Fine's kid but apparently there is no dispute that this kid was at these places with him. No father involved in the kid's life either from what I have read. Very strange.
 
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People should be very cautious complaining about the U.S. justice system in relation to the rest of the world.
Very careful.
The U.S. system is fraught with problems, no doubt, and I would love to see major changes implemented (no plea bargains, no deals to testify, jury trial if there's any threat of jail, acquitted on hung jury, and many others), but the U.S. criminal justice system compares quite favorably to the system in most other countries.
For example, in Italy, they can arrest you and keep in jail for a year on probable cause alone, without bringing charges or offering you bail. That's what happened to Knox (she did it, IMO).
Also, in many countries in Europe speech of various sorts is criminalized, and you can and will be put in jail for saying certain things (one example is talking about WWII and the crimes of Hitler in a manner that is inconsistent with the official version of history).
There are many other examples . . . don't be too hard on the U.S. system . . .
 
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Now it is a stretch to go jump to molestation but does anyone think it is strange for a 50+ year old man to take a 10 or 11 year old boy to Hawaii twice, the Final Four, Big East Tourney? I can see if it was Fine's kid but apparently there is no dispute that this kid was at these places with him. No father involved in the kid's life either from what I have read. Very strange.
It's flat out weird, it's indicative of his potential to be a child rapist, and there is no way that I'd ever let any male more than a year or so older than my young son take him anywhere overnight or out of the eye of the public.
Caesar's wife.
 
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He deserves the benefit of doubt right now. Can you imagine what this guy is going through if he did not do anything- horrible. The trips for with the kid could have been charitable for the love of G-d- the exact opposite of what was stated above. It will be interesting to get all the facts.
If he did it do it- he should be shot. If not ESPN should be shot- heck I want to see ESPN get shot up anyway after helping break up the BE.
 
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If this kid stayed in the same room as Fine on all these raod trips alone then there is something seriously wrong with the situation. I guess that needs to be proven. The kid wasn't traveling with his family.
 
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The trips for with the kid could have been charitable for the love of G-d- the exact opposite of what was stated above.

Caesar's wife.

Here's the thing. EVEN IF the relationship was entirely platonic, it was stupid and improper of him to have an unrelated boy staying in hotel rooms with him on road trips and such.

Ergo, he brought this on himself.
 
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America is a peculiar country. We proclaim "innocent until proven guilty" yet allow ESPN and every other national news outlet to run Bernie Fine's image and basically proclaim him a child molester without one scintilla of evidence. Its relatively shocking that we are one of the only civilized nations in the world that does this. I dont have a clue whether fine is a child rapist or not but it is something to think about.

Excellent point. As we saw in the PSU case Sandusky was tried and convicted in two news cycles. It's simply has to have an effect on the legal process, there is no way to conclude that coverage like this doesn't.
 
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Excellent point. As we saw in the PSU case Sandusky was tried and convicted in two news cycles. It's simply has to have an effect on the legal process, there is no way to conclude that coverage like this doesn't.

Well the difference with respect to Sandusky is one of those news cylcles contained a grand jury indictment, so Sandusky has been investigated and then charged and anyone who read that grand jury indictment finds it credible due to its specificity and the patterns repeated and corroborated by multiple witnesses. So the public and the media convicted Sandusky I think justifiably. Paterno similarly although I think the offshoot going after McQueary is piling on, at this point media needs to let the justice system play out and not get competing quotes from McQueary, then police, then McQueary etc...

Fine on the other hand faces no criminal charges currently and the investigations into his conduct have not resulted in charges to date. I haven't seen the espn coverage (so not sure if they are in effect convicting) but I think the public is giving the situation time to play out and any conviction bias is likely attributable to a justifiably over-cautious environment as a result of the Penn State system/admin crimes. HOwever, no doubt though that as Suzy says espn has likely over-stepped and going to make much more of this story in a gross attempt to draw ready eyeballs in light of Penn State.
 
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Really hope it's not true, I always have seen Boeheim as one of the "good guys" in college basketball.
 

ctchamps

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There was an investigation of Bernie Fine in 2005 by the University that found nothing. There were multiple investigations of Jerry Sandusky from 1998 forward that found nothing. OJ Simpson was innocent. Take all those things together mix them up in your mind and then ask in ESPN was right to run the story
Not quite accurate. They did discover something on Sandusky. The big question was why the DA did not proceed with the case, why he went missing several years later and why Sandusky "retired" in 1999.
 
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Wouldn't it be more wise for Boeheim to keep quiet now even on the slightest chance he is wrong? Don't the two statements below already make Boeheim look silly?

"Boeheim added: "Why wouldn't he come to the police (first this time)? Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money. That is what I believe. You want to put that on the air? Put that on the air.""

Yet, "Kevin Quinn, Syracuse's senior vice president for public affairs, issued a statement on behalf of the school: "In 2005, Syracuse University was contacted by an adult male who told us that he had reported to the Syracuse City Police that he had been subjected to inappropriate contact by an associate men's basketball coach. The alleged activity took place in the 1980's and 1990's. We were informed by the complainant that the Syracuse City Police had declined to pursue the matter because the statute of limitations had expired."
 
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